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FMguru posted:a large portion of interviewing is determining whether the candidate is able to follow all the little unwritten bullshit rules about how to behave in an interview (because jobs are very much about following all the little bullshit rules about corporate behavior). so you put on nice clothes, show up 10 minutes early, have a portfolio with copies of your resume, shake everyone hand, give all the expected answers to the expected questions, demonstrate that youve done the bare minimum of research about the company, ask some solid follow up questions, and then send an email to the interviewers thanking them for their time and saying how excited you were to meet the team. none of that has any bearing on whether youll be any good at doing the core functions of your job, but they have everything to do with telling the hiring manager if youll smoothly fit into the corporate culture This is one of the many reasons I turned to freelance/consulting/computer mercenary work. When people ask "why do you want to take this contract?" the answer is always "I want to take as much of your money as I possibly can" and hiring managers or whomever just go "oh yeah of course mr mercenary how silly of me" then sign the contract
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Jan 10, 2022 21:56
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Just had my interview. One of the guys didn't bother showing because he interviewed me at a different company for a different role 4 years ago and said I was good lmao. Two minutes after the interview I got an email saying they are moving forward with me and we set up a time to discuss salary and start date. Leverage your network if you have it, folks.
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Jan 10, 2022 22:00
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cinci zoo sniper posted:i tend to honestly just say "im not satisfied with my current compensation growth options, and this looks like an interesting avenue to rectify that" yeah, same. i wouldn't say anything bad about the company, but "i wanted more money" or "there wasn't room for growth/advancement as an IC" or whatever is fine. "it's a shithole" or "the people were jerks" or "management sucked" is of course not fine. specific things especially as relate to organizational maturity ("i want something more stable", "i need to tone down my on-call schedule and that wasn't possible", etc) seem ok to me and don't raise any red flags
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Jan 10, 2022 22:53
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Achmed Jones posted:yeah, same. i wouldn't say anything bad about the company, but "i wanted more money" or "there wasn't room for growth/advancement as an IC" or whatever is fine. "it's a shithole" or "the people were jerks" or "management sucked" is of course not fine. specific things especially as relate to organizational maturity ("i want something more stable", "i need to tone down my on-call schedule and that wasn't possible", etc) seem ok to me and don't raise any red flags yeah like actual specific things that are just a product of the role you have that by definition aren't really fixable, nothing that can be immediately followed up with "what did you do to attempt to fix the problems?" which is almost always a rhetorical question.
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Jan 10, 2022 23:43
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like I would still be super careful about what you say even if it seems innocent. like too much on-call can come across like you weren't writing stable enough systems, or saying you want more comp is kind of like advertising that you're desperate and will take any role, or lack of growth paths sounding like you weren't really indispensable, etc. it doesn't really matter if none of these things are true, the point is now the hiring manager is thinking about it, why not just make it easy on yourself and give them an enthusiastic vibe about the role you are applying for? any concerns you have about the role being the same can be asked independently without referencing your current position, why give the other company ammunition to take pause?
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Jan 10, 2022 23:50
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all good points
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Jan 11, 2022 00:31
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how receptive are american tech companies to counter-offer requests? imagine that their initially offer was an arbitrary number above my asking compensation, and im inviting them to beat a competing offer in the same ballpark by 5%
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Jan 11, 2022 00:54
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Receptive up to around 10%, unless it's a big role and the counter-offer is a main competitor, then it can be anything.
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Jan 11, 2022 00:56
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qhat posted:Receptive up to around 10%, unless it's a big role and the counter-offer is a main competitor, then it can be anything. interesting, that would fall short the optimum - but still workable. shot fired anyway, ill likely see where it lands tomorrow already
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Jan 11, 2022 01:00
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cinci zoo sniper posted:how receptive are american tech companies to counter-offer requests? imagine that their initially offer was an arbitrary number above my asking compensation, and im inviting them to beat a competing offer in the same ballpark by 5% any place worth working for will be very receptive to it. if they give you a hard time then i can guarantee you didn't want to work there anyways
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Jan 11, 2022 01:19
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qhat posted:Receptive up to around 10%, unless it's a big role and the counter-offer is a main competitor, then it can be anything. i've been worrying that I could have got an extra 10% since I didn't counter offer, but I also confidently said I would need a a very compelling offer because my job is very cushy (didn't know I meant workload not pay), but I was just ecstatic to break six figgies and they said it was above market and not to tell any one (obviously). I also asked for a 10% signing bonus and got it. I see 3 salaries for my title at the same office on glassdoor, the first was 30k more than me (which seemed insanely high), the 2nd was the same and 3rd was 10k less.
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Jan 11, 2022 01:34
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The result of the negotiation doesn't have to be the highest possible figure they would be willing to give you, it has to be a figure you'd be comfortable with. Generally you can always ask for more than the initial offer, though if you think you have to ask for over 10% more than they offered you in order to feel comfortable, and you don't have serious leverage with them, you should be thinking about walking away. You can still ask but I think generally they will either say no or they will talk you down, YMMV. That's my rule of thumb, anyway.
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Jan 11, 2022 01:42
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i am happy with it, it’s a 60% bump from the last job, I would be happy with the same pay just to get away from my current job
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Jan 11, 2022 01:47
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always worth negotiating up because the more you get paid, the more highly people will regard your work even if it’s the same quality as you’d produce for less money. it’s the consulting effect.
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Jan 11, 2022 02:45
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Perplx posted:i am happy with it, it’s a 60% bump from the last job, I would be happy with the same pay just to get away from my current job congrats! nothing feels better than jumping ship and getting a 'yes I'm definitely comfortable with that' number for your troubles.
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Jan 11, 2022 03:01
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Perplx posted:i am happy with it, it’s a 60% bump from the last job, I would be happy with the same pay just to get away from my current job I was in that boat. got offered a big raise (I forget the exact % but comparable) over oldbadjob for newgreatjob. asked for like 12% more, got offered like 5% more and a starting bonus. literally always ask for more money, as long as you’re reasonable and don’t push it, nobody will drop you over it unless they’ve told you it’s a final offer and even then only if they’re dicks. they worst they’ll say is no, and they’ll probably say say something kinda like yes. even if you’d be happy with the offer… would you rather your company have an extra $5k/yr, or you? even if it’ll already be more money than you know what to do with, would you rather your company had an extra $5k/yr, or your favorite charity?
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Jan 11, 2022 04:52
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bob dobbs is dead posted:he was hardware dude for a long time yeah, sounds like it's this. I've read luu's blog for awhile, but hadn't really checked out his twitter. Since it showed up here, I was reading some of his recent threads His childhood does not sound like it was anywhere close to good. In a follow up to the posted thread he mentioned that a couple of his friends weighed in on his bad interviews issue by mentioning unspecified mannerisms he has, traced to his background, which are terrible for passing interviews. I generally like his writing and find it quite insightful, but he does seem to have some weird takes on organizational dynamics & power. Surprisingly even on those topics he's usually quite interesting for stuff that he has explicitly worked out and examined, but the stuff that comes through implicitly in framing, etc is where there are gaps.
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Jan 11, 2022 05:17
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jemand posted:
does he howl AWOOOOOGA and his eyes comically bug out whenever he sees a pretty lady?
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Jan 11, 2022 12:22
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FMguru posted:a large portion of interviewing is determining whether the candidate is able to follow all the little unwritten bullshit rules about how to behave in an interview (because jobs are very much about following all the little bullshit rules about corporate behavior). so you put on nice clothes, show up 10 minutes early, have a portfolio with copies of your resume, shake everyone hand, give all the expected answers to the expected questions, demonstrate that youve done the bare minimum of research about the company, ask some solid follow up questions, and then send an email to the interviewers thanking them for their time and saying how excited you were to meet the team. none of that has any bearing on whether youll be any good at doing the core functions of your job, but they have everything to do with telling the hiring manager if youll smoothly fit into the corporate culture
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Jan 11, 2022 22:04
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Corla Plankun posted:lol mr "didn't know what mvc was" thinks hes not getting tech jobs because he's too honest Yeah, I haven't done any of these either, turns out people who write the computational core are also needed 
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Jan 11, 2022 22:07
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lol mr "didn't know what cache coherency was" thinks hes not getting tech jobs because he's too honest edit to add: "I've never taped out an out of order superscalar processor nor have I ever debugged a hardware issue that resulted in a recall."
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Jan 12, 2022 05:34
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i dont actually know what any of those words means because I just shuffle rpcs around very carefully, but you know
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Jan 12, 2022 05:35
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDbvVFffWV4 my linkedin inbox
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Jan 12, 2022 08:54
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just got an offer today at a startup that i'm only somewhat enthusiastic about. the project and team are okay, and the compensation is better than what i'm makng now, but nothing really groundbreaking. it's also completely remote with no real opportunity for in-office work since its on the other coast (i actually prefer a dedicated office space) i was supposed to have a second offer today at a larger public company, but they are now reprioritizing and are unsure if the position will even exist once that is decided. they are far more well-known and their verbal offer (before this meeting) was higher than the startup's, with a more relevant project and a better match for a team. they were my #1 choice startup needs an offer by eod friday. public company doesn't expect to even know if they are still hiring for the position for a week or two yet i guess i could take the startup offer and, if public company gets back with an even better one, just jump on that instead and burn some bridges if it comes to it. if public company had to wait to hire (but they were definitely going to hire) then i wouldn't mind pushing off a start date, but i don't even know if there will be an offer now
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Jan 12, 2022 22:55
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just tell the startup about the waitin on other offer sitch and see if theyll delay 2 weeks if theyre sociopaths this will raise up the ol' sociopath hackles as they start doin shady poo poo at this point. if they're deec peeps they'll just give in or give an actually good reason why they cant wait for your decision (which is drat rare)
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Jan 12, 2022 22:56
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they won't. already talked to them about it and they need a decision by friday
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Jan 12, 2022 22:57
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imo take the job and then quit it if you must, waiting for a reprioritisation right now could mean anything from 2 days to after they’re steadily into the next fiscal year
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Jan 12, 2022 22:58
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cinci zoo sniper posted:imo take the job and then quit it if you must, waiting for a reprioritisation right now could mean anything from 2 days to after they’re steadily into the next fiscal year yeah this is a factor, i guess startupland is a gently caress yeah or no sitch in most cases imo, best of luck on your ambivalent job
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Jan 12, 2022 22:59
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Flaming June posted:they won't. already talked to them about it and they need a decision by friday Well at least now you know what to tell them if you do end up taking the other job.
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Jan 12, 2022 23:12
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Flaming June posted:they won't. already talked to them about it and they need a decision by friday so give them the decision they want and just quit if the other company gives you a better offer. you can't say you didn't warn them and give them a chance
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Jan 13, 2022 00:37
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cinci zoo sniper posted:imo take the job and then quit it if you must, waiting for a reprioritisation right now could mean anything from 2 days to after they’re steadily into the next fiscal year do this. it's not your fault, they screwed themselves by demanding you give a quick answer.
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Jan 13, 2022 00:38
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Flaming June posted:just got an offer today at a startup that i'm only somewhat enthusiastic about. the project and team are okay, and the compensation is better than what i'm makng now, but nothing really groundbreaking. it's also completely remote with no real opportunity for in-office work since its on the other coast (i actually prefer a dedicated office space) imo do not take a job that is not offering you a single thing you are actually excited about, especially in this market. new job is (or has been for me) the quickest way to get way more money, role bump, or a better location and you only get a handful of new job in your life, so I would make them count.
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Jan 13, 2022 02:11
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it's about a 25% bump in pay, which isn't nothing. it's just that everything else about it is about the same or slightly worse i'm leaning towards taking it anyway. i'm just a bit in the dumps about what happened to the other potential offer, i guess 
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Jan 13, 2022 02:24
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the alternative is also to just say no and keep looking. 25% is nice but I could easily turn that down if the role wasn’t something I saw myself succeeding in or liking
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Jan 13, 2022 12:09
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eh i think it depends on where you are on the figgie scale. if you're really early in your career then you should probably be expecting a 50% raise at a minimum and honestly not getting that probably means you broke the cardinal rule of 'never say a loving number, jfc'. however a 25% raise is still pretty significant and you may want to take it and resume your search immediately, looking for another 25% or more jump. once you're mid career the percentages are going to come down and 25% is going to be more reasonable. at this point you should be focusing more on what the long term impacts on your career the gig will have along with your individual happiness. you *should* have a good (good enough) idea of the general direction you want to take your career along with what kind of jobs are cushy to you vs. which are kryptonite. also at this point you should have already secured a couple of 30-50% jumps in comp so money is way less of an issue for you by the time you hit mid to late career you're not going to see large bumps in comp unless you really sucked at negotiating your previous hops or are jumping over to management. at this point you should also be pretty drat comfy with the job you're doing because you've gotten so much better at picking and choosing gigs, and ALSO pretty comfy irt figgies and are in the point where marginal increases in comp don't even register on your radar. for anyone to get your attention they have to wave something that's very obviously compelling either in terms of job satisfaction, work-life balance, or compensation in my case i consider 25% the absolute floor for them to even get my attention, and from that point they better have my dream job lined up or i'm hanging up. they'd have to offer something like 50% or more for me to consider a 'lateral' move or 100% for me to go back to the old lifestyle i was living in my 20s
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Jan 13, 2022 14:25
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I got my offer after negotiating. 9% bump and a signing bonus. I didn’t get senior in my title but I’m ok with that because within 6 months I’ll be eligible and that will be a nice promotion and raise pretty quick. I start the 31st! I’m telling my boss tomorrow but my team already knows
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Jan 13, 2022 16:04
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is “full stack developer” still a click baity crooter magnet of a title on LinkedIn or does that reveal I’m a boomer?
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Jan 13, 2022 17:37
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Kernel Sanders posted:is “full stack developer” still a click baity crooter magnet of a title on LinkedIn or does that reveal I’m a boomer? it means back end developer with an attitude
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Jan 13, 2022 17:44
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i still see it but not near as much as i used to. but i also don't do web dev any more so 🤷♀️
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Jan 13, 2022 18:09
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was asking the dev interviewing me questions at the end of a tech screen "... so how does company x do that?" "i don't know how many other interviews you're on but this is for company y" loving woof. i got both questions correct so if i don't get it going to say it's entirely on that.
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Jan 13, 2022 18:15
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