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 Welcome to the 2022 iteration of Cheese Thread, now with more dystopia! I am a cheesemonger and ex-chef currently working towards CCP (Certified Cheese Professional i.e. cheese sommelier) certification, and thought we should refresh the thread for the new year. This OP will give a quick rundown of the common types of cheese and concepts of cheese making. Follow this thread for #cheesefacts! Parmigiano Reggiano  The "King of Cheeses", this is the real deal Italian PDO (Protected Designation of Origin, also notated as DOP; more on this later) parmesan. They were making this in the 13th Century or earlier. This unpasteurized cow's milk cheese comes exclusively from the Emilia-Romagna region of northern Italy, and is produced with an extremely specific process involving mixing fresh morning milk with skim milk from the previous night. The cheese is aged at least 12 months, and production of it uses 18% of all the milk in Italy. "Parmesan" is any cheese made in the style of Parmigiano, but not from the original region. Gouda  A variety of sweet and creamy cow's milk (traditionally) cheese, originally produced in the Netherlands. Gouda cheese was first mentioned historically in 1184, which makes it one of the oldest cheeses in the world that is still made today. Gouda as a term covers the style of cheese making and flavor profile rather than any specific cheese itself, and is a pretty broad category covering multiple styles and ages. Younger goudas tend to be mild and slightly fudgy in texture, while aged gouda starts obtaining caramel and butterscotch notes. Higher ages also begin forming  CHEESE CRYSTALS , which are fuckin amazing (these are just crystallization of different substances that form as moisture content lowers in the cheese with age).Cheddar  Originating in an English village called... Cheddar, cheddar cheese is the most popular cheese in the UK by far, and the second most popular in the US (behind mozzarella). This style of cheese has no PDO, although there is a PDO for certain specific cheddars from specific areas of the UK. Produced since at least the 12th century, it wasn't until the 19th century that specific formulas and methods were codified and standardized, creating the techniques that produce the cheddar that we know and love today. Cheddar goes through a unique process called "cheddaring", where after the curds and whey have been separated, the curd is kneaded with salt and cut into cubes to drain, then stacked and turned periodically. Manchego  Semi firm Spanish sheep milk cheese, Manchego has a PDO designation for certain areas of central Spain. This type of cheese is aged anywhere from 30 days up to 2 years, and the compact, buttery texture gets harder and sharper with age. This style of cheese is produced by pressing the curd into molds, giving it the compact and dense texture it is known for. Traditionally, this was done in a style of grass woven basket, giving it the distinctive pattern on the rind; this is now achieved with patterns inside the factory molds. There a number of other cheeses made in this style, such as La Dama Sagrada (goat manchego) and Campo Montalban (cow, goat and sheep). Blue Cheese  Cheese made with injections of various Penicillium mold cultures, originally thought to have originated in France. It is thought to actually have been an accidental discovery, found when cheese were left in caves that had naturally controlled climates that happened to be ideal for the growth of certain strains of harmless mold. In fact, the earliest variety, Roquefort, is said in legend to have been created by a horny French boy who left his cheese in a cave to chase a pretty girl, and happened upon it months later to find the new product. Blues are produced similar to most other cheeses, but are sprinkled with the desired mold cultures, fermented, and then pierced during the ripening process to allow air and moisture to penetrate into the cheese, allowing the mold to grow. Blue cheese is very strongly flavored, often with aggressive acetone and umami generated by the interaction of the molds with fats. Alpine  "Alpine" , or Swiss, cheeses originated in the Alps of Europe, and have a very distinctive character gained from their historical methods of production. Semi-hard to hard, these cheeses tend to have hard rinds, and have their character due to the methods required for making cheese for the people in the Alpine regions as they moved into and out of valleys with the seasons. Traditionally, cheeses of this type are produced in large wheels, and are generally very durable and robust for the sake of transport. The varieties most commonly found are cow's milk, but there is nothing specifically requiring this type of milk to be used. The unique production process for these products involves heat incubating the cheese, or "cooking" them at medium temperatures. Tend towards nutty and buttery flavors, and have various uses in cooking. Soft Ripened  A broad category of cheeses covering things like brie, Camembert, or Humboldt Fog, soft ripened cheeses (also called "bloomy rind cheese") are soft, spreadable, sometimes runny cheeses that are produced using different strains of Penicillium molds, which generated the fuzzy, white, edible rind. Individual cheeses in this category might have a PDO, but there are so many varieties of soft ripened cheese that you can find something good almost anywhere. Washed Rind  A variety of cheeses with textures ranging from soft to hard, washed rind cheeses are treated with saltwater brines or other mold bearing substances, such as beer, wine, or liquor. These cheeses develop a very distinctive and potent flavor from the bacterial growth encouraged by the brine treatment, tending towards the "stinky" quality that you either love or hate. Limburger is a particularly potent and well known variety of soft washed rind cheese, but there are plenty of other varieties that are common and well loved across the world. Fresh Cheese  Cheeses made from curds that are not aged or pressed are referred to as "fresh cheese". This includes mozzarella, ricotta, feta, and (the common, soft spreadable) goat cheese. These cheeses are not generally treated with preservatives, and can spoil very quickly. The easiest cheese to make, it involves variations of a simple curdling and straining of milk. CHEESE MAKING Almost all cheeses involve the 6 main steps of cheese making: Acidification, Coagulation, Separation, Salting, Shaping, and Ripening. Some specific cheeses are given extra steps to the process depending on their individual methods, such as blues being punctured or cheddars being cheddared. This whole process is both incredibly scientific and very artistic; you monitor pH levels in one step, and then discard the wheel because it just doesn't feel right. 1. Acidification Starter cultures or acids are added to milk, which change the lactose (the sugars present in milk) into lactic acid and starts the series of reactions that turn the liquid milk into a solid. 2. Coagulation Rennet (a set of enzymes usually harvested from the stomachs of calves, but fungal and microbial rennets are also used) is added to the liquid, causing it to further solidify. 3. Separation The curds and whey at this point begin to separate, and the curds are usually cut or raked to extract more of the whey. The more the curd is manipulated and cut here, the harder the cheese will end up being; things like brie are barely hosed with, while things like Comte are cut very fine. The whey is eventually all drained away, leaving the solid curd to become cheese. 4. Salting Add salt in various ways. This adds flavor, and also preserves the cheese so it lasts through the months it can take to mature into its final product. 5. Shaping The prepared curd is put into whatever mold it will use to attain the finished shape, such a wheel or block. Some degree of pressing occurs here for most cheeses to press out any remaining liquid. 6. Ripening The final, and longest, step, this is where the cheese is left to sit in whatever cave or room for however long is necessary to achieve the desired consistency and characteristics. The French term for this process is affinage, and once completed results in a finished cheese. This is the time when rinds will form, blue cheese molds will grow, and bloomy rinds will bloom and become fuzzy. This is a great page with some info on how to get started with making cheese at home. It is definitely one of those things that seems super difficult and intimidating, but in reality is a pretty simple process once you have the require knowledge and materials. OTHER STUFF TO KNOW Some extra info, as well posts I've made elsewhere that lead me to make this thread Protected Designation of Origin (PDO, or DOP) A type of geographical indicator of EU and UK, which is used as a way to protect and preserve the origins of food products. When people say "you can only call in Champagne if it comes from the Champagne region of France", they are talking about PDO. There really isn't much else to this; if something has a PDO, you can't use the same name unless you make it there. Sandwich Anarchist posted:I sell cheese for a living and am working on becoming a CCP (certified cheese professional, think sommelier but for cheese). Sandwich Anarchist posted:So blues are a complicated category. The first thing to know is that the type of mold used in the cheese is a major element in what happens to the product. You've seen things called Gorgonzola or Roquefort, which are named for the mold strains used. Most blues fall into this trap where they are "blues first, cheese second", meaning that the acetone and salty flavors punch you in the face. This is why most people don't like blue cheese; they've only had dogshit blues. Alkydere posted:I need to get some tasty goat cheese and crackers. Been too long since I had a snack like that... Stay fresh, cheesebags. 
Sandwich Anarchist fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 16, 2022 23:54
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My kinda thread 
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Jan 17, 2022 00:02
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quote:In fact, the earliest variety, Roquefort, is said in legend to have been created by a horny French boy who left his cheese in a cave to chase a pretty girl, and happened upon it months later to find the new product I love it, this is the Frenchest story ever  all around
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Jan 17, 2022 00:02
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Oh, I'm very much here for the cheesy goodness. This is the best way to start 2022 imho
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Jan 17, 2022 00:15
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Memento posted:I love it, this is the Frenchest story ever The French version of 'To have your cake and eat it too', translates as 'To have the butter, and sell the butter, and get the pretty milkmaid's butt'
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Jan 17, 2022 00:32
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Double Gloucester crew represent. It's my favorite cracker cheese.
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Jan 17, 2022 00:41
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I love cheese and used to work at the cheese counter in a liquor store in Chicago where I learned a lot; this was almost a decade ago by this point, but I try to swing by a cheese shop or the cheese counter at fancy grocery stores in my area. What I really want to know is how to find bergblumenkäse so I can be disappointed that it's good, but not as good as I remember it being because I remember it being amazing.
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Jan 17, 2022 00:42
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Tunicate posted:The French version of 'To have your cake and eat it too' I thought that was just "let them eat cake"
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Jan 17, 2022 00:45
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Bum the Sad posted:Double Gloucester crew represent. It's my favorite cracker cheese. Yeah its delicious. I like the Cooper's Hill with shallot and chive. I miss the wheel roll  Slimy Hog posted:What I really want to know is how to find bergblumenkäse Good loving luck. Imports are really difficult right now; I'm having to constantly shuffle inventory with what I can get ahold of to keep the case full. Sandwich Anarchist fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 00:54
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Awesome, I'm down!
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Jan 17, 2022 00:58
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There is an Italian place that uses shaved Grana Padano on their pizza and was wondering if there was anything you could tell me about it. It is so drat buttery and salty, but so delicious.
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Jan 17, 2022 01:10
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Yeah its delicious. I like the Cooper's Hill with shallot and chive.
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Jan 17, 2022 01:13
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Is there any Parmesan better/older/crystallier than vacche rosse? If so, how can I obtain it and inject it in my veins? If I was called away and a wedge of Parmesan got tragically rock-hard in my fridge, is there any saving it? Anne Whateley fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 01:13
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i like nice words
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Zil posted:There is an Italian place that uses shaved Grana Padano on their pizza and was wondering if there was anything you could tell me about it. Yeah, it's basically Parmigiano Reggiano, but made in a different region (Lombardi, I think?), and from cows fed different feed, including something called silage, which is more or less pickled grass. Doesn't use the exact same method of milk mixing either. It's a good cheese. Anne Whateley posted:Is there any Parmesan better/older/crystallier than vacche rosse? If so, how can I obtain it and inject it in my veins? Nope. That's the best there is, aged longer than regular reggiano too. quote:If I was called away and a wedge of Parmesan got tragically rock-hard in my fridge, is there any saving it? Not really, but you could try cutting away the really hard outer layer, wrapping it in a damp towel, putting it in a ziplock bag and putting it in the fridge for a day. You MIGHT get something you can grate, but it's a crapshoot. Sandwich Anarchist fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 01:20
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Could you use a really dried out parmesan in making stock?
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Jan 17, 2022 01:29
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Memento posted:Could you use a really dried out parmesan in making stock? Yeah that would probably work, or throw in your pasta water
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Jan 17, 2022 01:30
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Stoked on this thread, thanks for putting it together SandwichArtist Been dreaming of doing a raclette pizza where we do table-side cheese melting on top of a pie.
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Jan 17, 2022 01:34
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as a person recently returned from France, I can assure you all that French people insist that you eat cheese at every meal and it's great. p.s. best cheese is munster from Alsace, not the flavorless bullshit called muenster in america
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Jan 17, 2022 01:46
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I like dry cheeses. Dry and funky. I loved the manchego cheese I could get in the south of spain that smelled like old boots and horse blankets. Stuff that pairs with olives, jamon, cheap pilsners, crusty breads, dry reds, and really dry whites. I'm also a normie who just gets stuff from spouts or whole foods when I feel like having a charcuterie night. Special shoutouts to Midnight Moon which is one of the few softer cheeses I actually like. So in florida (i'm willing to drive to orlando) do you have any suggestions on the places to hit up and the products to ask for?
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Jan 17, 2022 01:51
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can we get gang tags for this thread i want to be bocconcini gang
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Jan 17, 2022 02:20
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Mister Speaker posted:can we get gang tags for this thread Sandwich Anarchist posted:Stay fresh, cheesebags.
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Jan 17, 2022 02:21
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i don't want a gangtag but I want to be known as the manchego monster
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Jan 17, 2022 02:29
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Greetings cheese lovers. Well I have a tonne of stories, tastes, and even some questions. Where to start. Wensleydale. Real Wensleydale. I'm so sad because I haven't had any in years. I saw some of the cranberry stuff in December but otherwise they never import it anymore. It's like they've given up. It's not just cheddar; it's not just acidic western US cheddar. The texture is a bit more dry, so at times it's even a little bit crumbly, which really makes it a great match with crackers. (Cheddar and similar cheeses can over power the texture of a cracker; you need something more 'whispy' like a thin slice of romano without changing the flavor.) One year I was in Whole Foods (probably a decade ago) and they actually had it. Of course they had three dozen little wrapped wedges around 0.15lb each or something silly. I asked them how much the cylinder was (10#) and their jaws dropped when I said I'd buy half of it. The manager came out, "What are you doing (wire sliding a cylinder in half)?? Oh buying half?!" Gave me a 10% discount.
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Jan 17, 2022 03:07
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:Greetings cheese lovers. Well I have a tonne of stories, tastes, and even some questions. Where to start. Wensleydale is hard to get right now, just like anything out of the UK. I carry both cranberry and blueberry, but can't get ahold of anything else reliably.
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Jan 17, 2022 03:16
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So is this the right kind of Wensleydale? PDO, right? https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/61006/yorkshire-wensleydale-pdo-cheese-with-cranberries-wedge Y'all going to make me get my cheeseboard on.
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Jan 17, 2022 03:20
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The description here seems accurate. "Mild" is a good word to include as it's not a sharp cheese. https://cheese.com/wensleydale/ The last I had was the classic cloth bound, but I didn't know they had smoked and other flavors. It looks like these days it's "plastic wrapped" and that seems to be the modernized label. It can contain some blue veins, which the pictures don't really show, but obviously nothing approaching a blue cheese.
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Jan 17, 2022 03:42
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:The description here seems accurate. "Mild" is a good word to include as it's not a sharp cheese. https://cheese.com/wensleydale/ I get in 5 pound wheels with thick colored wax that we cut into wedges and plastic wrap. #cheesefact: Wensleydale cheese was in danger of extinction in the 90s, as sales had dropped so low that they couldn't continue producing it. Then Wallace & Gromit came along and mentioned Wensleydale as the main character's favorite cheese in a couple animated shorts, which lead the owner of the cheese production facility to reach out. They partnered up and released a W&G branded Wensleydale that was a huge success and saved the facility. Sandwich Anarchist fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 03:43
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Is this where I can express my love for Rogue River Blue? I came across it almost accidentally, but hot drat, it's fantastic.
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Jan 17, 2022 03:44
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Carillon posted:Is this where I can express my love for Rogue River Blue? I came across it almost accidentally, but hot drat, it's fantastic. Rogue River is unbelievable. It's very hard to get, as they only release it in the fall in limited quantities. This year in particular was really bad due to staff and supply shortages from covid, so they produced less than half of what they projected. We only got one wheel, and it was gone that day.
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Jan 17, 2022 03:48
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:I get in 5 pound wheels with thick colored wax that we cut into wedges and plastic wrap. note that he hadn't even tried Wensleydale, he just thought the name would be fun to animate
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Jan 17, 2022 03:49
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I am going to give this thread the highest honor I can bestow, which is bookmarking it. This is awesome! What got you into getting your certification? How hard has it been? And what are you gonna do with it once you get it? Also English cheddar and American cheddar are wildly different in flavor and I gotta say I really prefer the sharp English taste to the American version
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Jan 17, 2022 04:13
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Welp here is a non-fruited version that appears to ship from the UK, so long as you're OK with the hideous shipping rate... https://us.vitaminuk.com/products/vit695?currency=GBP&variant=29246699438164&wi=off DiBruno's in the (Phila.) Italian Market carried Wensleydale for years, but no longer. At least I can still get a proper raclette wedge. And my wife picked up a small wheel of Screamer, at Christmas. It's the only soft/ripened I've ever had where I could tolerate eating the rind. I find it too bitter on most. OK let me get this out of the way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xLUEMj6cwA PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 04:13
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Seth Pecksniff posted:I am going to give this thread the highest honor I can bestow, which is bookmarking it. I do it for a living and love it, so getting the cert would be great for my career. It is hard as gently caress lol, so much to know. There is a test you have to take, and courses ahead of it. The course content is very in depth, and goes into history, process, financials, marketing etc.
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Jan 17, 2022 04:16
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Cheese is something I of course love but haven’t really taken the time to dig too deep into. I’m curious to hear if there’s any interesting experimental stuff being done that you know about; say, cheddaring a Manchego-style cheese or whatever, blending techniques like that.
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Jan 17, 2022 04:27
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prayer group posted:Cheese is something I of course love but haven’t really taken the time to dig too deep into. I’m curious to hear if there’s any interesting experimental stuff being done that you know about; say, cheddaring a Manchego-style cheese or whatever, blending techniques like that. To be honest, not really. Cheese is an industry deeply steeped in tradition, and people REALLY fuckin care about it. It isn't common at all to see places doing really new or experimental stuff. And that's only part of it. Cheesemaking is a very expensive, labor intensive, and time consuming process. Doing something off the wall that ends up not being good would be a huge waste of time and resources. You have to understand, cheese makers don't have a steady income stream; they generate income in bursts when batches of product are finished. Which leads me to a #cheesfact Back in 2012, a series of earthquakes hit the Emilia-Romagna region, and hosed everything up big time. The Parmigiano warehouses got demolished, damaging or destroying like 350,000 wheels of the cheese. Each wheel being 80 pounds or so, meaning 14,000 tons (or 126 BLUE WHALES) of cheese was lost. Chef Massimo Bottura, one of the best chefs in the world, is a native of the Emilia-Romagna region, and created a recipe using Parmigiano Reggiano (risotto cacio e pepe). He organized a fundraiser for the recipe and had people all over the world get into it. Every single wheel was sold, and the Parmigiano industry was saved. The date of 10/27 is Parmigiano Reggiano Night, and celebrates the world coming together under the guidance of one man to save a legendary cheese from extinction. Sandwich Anarchist fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 04:44
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Chef Massimo, you are a hero and I really need to try risotto cacio e pepe 
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Jan 17, 2022 04:47
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Seth Pecksniff posted:Chef Massimo, you are a hero and I really need to try risotto cacio e pepe https://www.chefspencil.com/recipe/risotto-cacio-e-pepe/
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Jan 17, 2022 04:49
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Man I love cheese, and I feel like I'm in the perfect place for this thread: I know enough to participate and recognize most cheese mentioned so far, but I also feel like I'm still a neophyte and have tons to learn. Thanks Sandwich Anarchist for the thread
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Jan 17, 2022 05:30
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What are some realistic things to do with my leftover cheese rinds? I always have some leftover from either parm or gouda and never know what to do with them, and throwing them away always feels wasteful 
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Jan 17, 2022 05:37
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I wanna find something with those CHEESE CRYSTALS
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Jan 17, 2022 05:38
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