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https://twitter.com/hughsient/status/1483366667208040448
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Jan 18, 2022 14:00
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Soricidus posted:i guess? it was a clunky text mode terminal thing, probably running over telnet. felt old-fashioned at the time.
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Jan 18, 2022 14:20
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hmm, nothing on my 6th gen x1 carbon
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Jan 18, 2022 15:17
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Rufus Ping posted:Don't understand why familiarity with library card catalogues is especially helpful when the defining characteristic of computer filesystems is that items can be nested arbitrarily deeply no you see people dont understand hierarchical categorization because theyve never been in a filing room (the only known case of hierarchical categorization in nature), therefore we should dispense with any concept of categorization and just rely on offering magic terms to the search gods to access any data and hope their favor falls on us. im a big smart ux man
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Jan 18, 2022 15:50
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human computer interaction expert turned interior designer: lol well first of all you have dressers and closets in your room and poo poo like a quote unquote sock drawer? lmao is this the library of alexandria? lets just take those out and throw everything on the floor
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Jan 18, 2022 15:52
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i recall taxonomies was supposed to solve that so you throw everything on the floor and add a bunch of post its to all the things, sometimes you misspell something about the item
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Jan 18, 2022 17:21
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Breakfast All Day posted:human computer interaction expert turned interior designer: lol well first of all you have dressers and closets in your room and poo poo like a quote unquote sock drawer? lmao is this the library of alexandria? lets just take those out and throw everything on the floor I see you searched for "socks" would you like to buy new socks from our good friends Target.com today?
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Jan 18, 2022 18:07
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mystes posted:Your library must have had the catalog digitized very early. I'm not in my 40s yet and I had to use card catalogs for a few years. Also their elementary/middle/high school libraries. It's only slightly more believable than claiming you weren't taught how to use a dictionary.
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Jan 18, 2022 18:11
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SYSV Fanfic posted:Also their elementary/middle/high school libraries. It's only slightly more believable than claiming you weren't taught how to use a dictionary. i don't think anyone, ever, checked out a book from my high school's library. hell, you weren't even allowed in there outside of maybe 10 minutes in the morning before the day started, or you were one of the 5 people that got to go there during a study hall once a week or so. for any actual schoolwork, you went to the municipal library, which had a computerized catalog by the early 90s.
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Jan 18, 2022 18:46
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The_Franz posted:and fedora has the official Nvidia drivers in a repo enabled with one click, so they are automatically updated without having to janitor anything shame this doesn’t actually work and bricks the os install
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Jan 18, 2022 18:54
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The_Franz posted:i don't think anyone, ever, checked out a book from my high school's library. hell, you weren't even allowed in there outside of maybe 10 minutes in the morning before the day started, or you were one of the 5 people that got to go there during a study hall once a week or so. for any actual schoolwork, you went to the municipal library, which had a computerized catalog by the early 90s. 2022-41=1981, which means 5th grade by the 1990 school year. If you are old enough, you were taught how to use a card catalogue in elementary school. Even if you were in the class for paste eaters. It was considered a fundamental skill for self learning like knowing how to use an encyclopedia, dictionary, and thesaurus. Which you were also explicitly taught. Someone might not remember being taught, sure.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:11
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You may find this surprising but different school districts have different curricula.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:16
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I've never in my life had to use card catalogues let alone learn how to use them, all libraries had computers, maybe it's because I live in a developed country or something and grew up in the 90's.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:18
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Dynix was released in 1983, if you grew up in a developed part of the US you've probably never used a card catalog.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:24
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mystes posted:Your library must have had the catalog digitized very early. I'm not in my 40s yet and I had to use card catalogs for a few years. my elementary thru high school libraries had fully digitized catalogs even in the mid 80s (i am 40) it was a dumb terminal with a big clacky keyboard with lots of special search keys like “BOOL” for boolean search and “AUTHOR” to search by author, and a monochrome green display
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Jan 18, 2022 19:26
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we did, at some nebulous point, learn about card catalogs (maybe first grade?), but i never had to actually use one because, basically as far back as i can remember, the library had those green or amber terminals. at that point, the only thing the card catalog was used for was as a desk for said terminalsEIDE Van Hagar posted:it was a dumb terminal with a big clacky keyboard with lots of special search keys like “BOOL” for boolean search and “AUTHOR” to search by author, and a monochrome green display yeah, that sounds right
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Jan 18, 2022 19:34
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and yeah a card catalog or maybe apothecary cabinet was the terminal catalog desk
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Jan 18, 2022 19:49
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I really meant that as an absolute - not "practically", but absolutely "never". Libraries are the most common cultural reference people have for how large amounts of information were stored, accessed, indexed, and referenced prior to digitization. Now there are library systems that don't even have stacks - you request the book digitally. File, folder, and file system are metaphors that have become idioms. You can't even count on using a library as a metaphor for how computers organize information on secondary storage.
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Jan 18, 2022 20:06
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Yeah I was in middle school in the early 2000s and I think maybe we were taught about card catalogs once when too young to use or remember things but the libraries were all digital by the time I was using them and similarly the school library was only used when absolutely forced to
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Jan 18, 2022 20:09
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pseudorandom name posted:Dynix was released in 1983, if you grew up in a developed part of the US you've probably never used a card catalog. my grandmother was the head librarian and her last big project before she retired in 93 was moving the card catalog system over to Dynix
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Jan 18, 2022 20:14
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akadajet posted:shame this doesn’t actually work and bricks the os install also, who would want loving automated updating of nvidia drivers in the first place. when i was still using nvidia, once i had a stable driver installed i avoided updating until a new game/browser version crashed, because updating almost always meant new bugs lol and that's on windows, where nvidia is said to have the good drivers lmao
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Jan 18, 2022 20:27
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Last time I had an nvidia card I had to hold all kernel updates till I had the fucks to deal with x breaking. If you're actually using it for gaming and your desktop just do yourself a favor and use Ubuntu. Since 19.10 nvidia has had some kind of partnership with canonical to officially support their driver.
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Jan 18, 2022 20:37
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akadajet posted:shame this doesn’t actually work and bricks the os install works for me, op SYSV Fanfic posted:Last time I had an nvidia card I had to hold all kernel updates till I had the fucks to deal with x breaking. If you're actually using it for gaming and your desktop just do yourself a favor and use Ubuntu. Since 19.10 nvidia has had some kind of partnership with canonical to officially support their driver. i've been auto-updating using the fedora nvidia repo for years now and it's never broken anything
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Jan 18, 2022 20:43
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EIDE Van Hagar posted:my elementary thru high school libraries had fully digitized catalogs even in the mid 80s (i am 40) Once they started using dynix or whatever it was also possible to dial in to access the catalog which was nice. mystes fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 21:32
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Any misunderstanding is my fault. The dividing line would be in the 1980s, some school systems like Miami-Dade went all in very early, and by used a card catalogue people thought I meant "used a card catalog to find reference material" rather than "did an exercise in elementary school once or twice". There are people who never saw a card catalogue before computers for various reasons, it was just such a common experience in using a non-computer information system you could rely on it as a broadly relatable and understandable metaphor.
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Jan 18, 2022 21:54
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city library used terminals (and even a dial-in system for accessing it) while the elementary and middle school libraries each had a physical card catalog and in hindsight i wonder how often the cards disappeared but in any case, the correct and canonical metaphor for storage on disk is butts and farts
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Jan 18, 2022 22:00
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we had a physical card catalog in elementary school, but my first year of middle school shifted to something software based on the brand new windows 95 machines in the library
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Jan 18, 2022 23:32
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Dewey decimal is a poo poo filing system, library of congress is much better
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Jan 19, 2022 02:52
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My library is a combo safe injection site and adult theater now.
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Jan 19, 2022 03:37
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SYSV Fanfic posted:My little free library is a combo safe injection site and adult theater now.
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Jan 19, 2022 05:09
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SYSV Fanfic posted:My library is a combo safe injection site those must be some big rear end needles
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Jan 19, 2022 07:41
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Nomnom Cookie posted:Dewey decimal is a poo poo filing system, library of congress is much better they're both pretty bad, loc (based on thomas jefferson's library) has two letters for history, but an loc call number with cutter number tells you much more than a dewey number does
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Jan 19, 2022 18:59
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Soricidus posted:i guess? it was a clunky text mode terminal thing, probably running over telnet. felt old-fashioned at the time. maybe something on top of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z39.50?
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Jan 19, 2022 19:05
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A Wheezy Steampunk posted:maybe something on top of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z39.50?
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Jan 19, 2022 19:16
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yeah that’s what the backend uses for its representation my hometown’s public library set up an electronic card catalog system in the early 1990s, and in the 1980s had an electronic circulation system based on an Apple //e with a ProFile I think the electronic card catalog was run on a small HP 3000 like a 917LX or 918, it used HP 700-series terminals with amber screens like this 
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Jan 19, 2022 21:51
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mystes posted:That's not something you would interact directly with as a user eschaton posted:yeah that’s what the backend uses for its representation] ah, okay we still have some edge notched cards at work and they're very cool  quote:Edge-notched cards, however, were not intended to be read by machines such as IBM card sorters. Instead, they were manipulated by passing one or more slim needles through selected holes in a group of cards. As the needles were lifted, the cards that were notched in the hole positions where the needles were inserted would be left behind as rest of the deck was lifted by the needles. Using two or more needles produced a logical and function. Combining the cards from two different selections produced a logical or. Quite complex manipulations, including sorting were possible using these techniques.
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Jan 19, 2022 22:57
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SYSV Fanfic posted:2022-41=1981, which means 5th grade by the 1990 school year. If you are old enough, you were taught how to use a card catalogue in elementary school. Even if you were in the class for paste eaters. It was considered a fundamental skill for self learning like knowing how to use an encyclopedia, dictionary, and thesaurus. Which you were also explicitly taught. “5th grade”? ah, you’re assuming an American context. I went to school in Britain. we learned dewey I guess but I don’t remember seeing a card catalog before university. from a quick google I can see that there were multiple competing library computer systems commercially available from at least the late 1970s onwards, so idk why people are skeptical that a major university had one 20 years later
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Jan 20, 2022 10:01
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assuming America where depending on your wealth and where you are you might be living in the 19th, 20th, or 21st century
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Jan 20, 2022 10:52
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Soricidus posted:“5th grade”? ah, you’re assuming an American context. I went to school in Britain.
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Jan 20, 2022 12:34
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SYSV Fanfic posted:2022-41=1981, which means 5th grade by the 1990 school year. If you are old enough, you were taught how to use a card catalogue in elementary school. I am 44, and no, I was not. The entire world does not use your personal elementary school's curriculum. Didn't learn how to use one til university (which still had a card catalogue in some libraries).
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Jan 20, 2022 14:28
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