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Beve Stuscemi
Jun 6, 2001




I don’t know why it has to be a thing regardless. If you don’t want a Facebook account for whatever underlying reason, then don’t get one.

Get an Index or a reverb g2 or a Pimax, or check out used Vives/Vive pros and stuff like that. There is still plenty out there.

If you want a $299 all in one headset, then right now, today, you need to interact with Facebook.

I hope that changes in the future, but that’s how it is today.

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Beve Stuscemi
Jun 6, 2001




All this being said I really hope valve is ramping up to make a headset with a steam deck baked into it because it’s a really wasted opportunity if they don’t.

Private Speech
Mar 30, 2011

I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.


Jim Silly-Balls posted:

If you want a $299 all in one headset, then right now, today, you need to interact with Facebook.

I hope that changes in the future, but that’s how it is today.

To be honest I don't think it will - the extra cost of shoving in a fairly high-performance ARM system all while being cheaper (albeit lower spec) than the competing standalone solutions makes it an extremely tall order.

Even for Valve I would expect a potential steam deck headset to be closer to $399 or $449, not to mention it will lack the oculus exclusives.

Tom Guycot
Oct 15, 2008

Chief of Governors


Private Speech posted:

To be honest I don't think it will - the extra cost of shoving in a fairly high-performance ARM system all while being cheaper (albeit lower spec) than the competing standalone solutions makes it an extremely tall order.

Even for Valve I would expect a potential steam deck headset to be closer to $399 or $449, not to mention it will lack the oculus exclusives.


A steam deck based all in one headset from valve being priced at $449 would be an insanely good price.

I couldn't see one costing less than $900 at a minimum.

Lunchmeat Larry
Nov 3, 2012

Just discovered that if I run Blade and Sorcery in Oculus Mode the game as a whole runs and looks worse, but the controls for grabbing, throwing, precision stuff are much better than SteamVR mode. Throwing in particular is night and day.

That is quite annoying!! Reading reddit/Steam seems like a fairly common situation as well. Half tempted to pick up Nomad now even though the mod support isn't anywhere close.

SCheeseman
Apr 23, 2003

On the one hand, the Sonic no ethical consumption under capitalism meme. On the other, hate magnifying world ending pan-opticon.

I love VR conceptually, I don't have piles of cash and the Quest 2 is the best, most affordable VR on the market. Everyone compromises their values for convenience to some extent, at some point you gotta respect where people draw their lines, for what it's worth I'm more than happy to ditch this poo poo as soon as there is something else that's remotely competitive.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Private Speech posted:

To be honest I don't think it will - the extra cost of shoving in a fairly high-performance ARM system all while being cheaper (albeit lower spec) than the competing standalone solutions makes it an extremely tall order.

Even for Valve I would expect a potential steam deck headset to be closer to $399 or $449, not to mention it will lack the oculus exclusives.

It's not ARM, it's an x86 processor if it follows Steam Deck. Which could put a dent in Quest's marketshare given it'd be running PCVR software natively, so devs can make one build for the Steam headset running standalone AND PCVR.

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

Perestroika posted:

Has anybody messed about with those gun-stock accessories for VR controllers? I've been playing a bit more Pavlov and H3 recently, but I keep running into the issue that trying to hold and aim two-handed guns is just pretty awkward and shaky in VR. I've seen a few doodads on offer that basically let you slot your controllers into some sort of rigid stock you can hold against your shoulder, but the reviews on those seem pretty mixed, and they're not exactly cheap, either.

Yep, I sprung for a etsy one, but I figured I'd want one what held like a rifle where the controllers go under the stock and that really makes aiming hard because it hits my headset. Wish I got one with the stock under the controllers.

SO yeah, it helps though keep in mind games assume you can easily move your controllers. Usually you can detach them easily with a magnet but it can be awkward when you need to use a controller not in line with the other. So probably not worth the money but vaguely interesting.

Jokerpilled Drudge posted:


Played lots of Risk of Rain 2 in pancake mode, im scared to make the leap into VR

It's fun.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020

Really don't like long guns in VR. Anything you're supposed to hold/aim with two hands really throws me off and gives the impression on holding a slippery pool noodle

Professor Wayne
Aug 27, 2008

So, Harvey, what became of the giant penny?

They actually let him keep it.

Jokerpilled Drudge posted:

Played lots of Risk of Rain 2 in pancake mode, im scared to make the leap into VR

I was not expecting the easy mobs on the first level to freak me out a bit. They’re just so big in VR.

Alctel
Jan 16, 2004

I love snails


Perestroika posted:

Has anybody messed about with those gun-stock accessories for VR controllers? I've been playing a bit more Pavlov and H3 recently, but I keep running into the issue that trying to hold and aim two-handed guns is just pretty awkward and shaky in VR. I've seen a few doodads on offer that basically let you slot your controllers into some sort of rigid stock you can hold against your shoulder, but the reviews on those seem pretty mixed, and they're not exactly cheap, either.

I have the Kobra Mark II and I like it. The controllers mount underneath so that helps for ~immersion~

I found it most useful in Onward, it def slows down your ability to do quick shots up close (which is why carbines and submachineguns are a thing irl) which for Pavlov's more CS style maps often got me killed

Makes aiming a sniper rifle in any game a billion times easier though

Butterfly Valley
Apr 19, 2007

I am a spectacularly bad poster and everyone in the Schadenfreude thread hates my guts.

Jack Trades posted:

"SOME people have your data then why aren't you okay with ALL people having your data?"

It's more "SOME people have your data, why aren't you okay with setting up a burner account with the name Mr Tiddles and a picture of a cat from the internet?"

Corin Tucker's Stalker posted:

Pragmatism is great, but if you look at the responses to Jack that's not what's going on. There's a pack mentality thing happening where it's vaguely okay to say Facebook is bad, but not okay to say you won't give them money this particular thing.

1. I've just started posting itt and hadn't been up on VR at all before getting the Quest 2, so I have no idea what the 'pack' mentality is when it comes to VR headsets in this forum or generally. I was just curious about people's motivations for not getting the Quest because of the Facebook connection as I've seen it referred to in a couple of reviews and then now in this thread.

2. I hadn't considered the money angle, but now that I am I guess that's because I imagine the amount of money Facebook gains from everything Quest related is astronomically small compared to their conventional revenue streams. The Quest could be a total failure revenue wise and they'd still carry on being Facebook in new and terrible ways.

It's fair enough though if people don't want to directly financially support Facebook and I get the principle although for me it feels unevenly applied given how evil literally every major tech company is.

Harminoff
Oct 24, 2005

👽
So both my GF and I have quest 2's and I see there is kind of a way to "family share" which sounds great as buying each game twice is expensive.

Is there a list anywhere of what games are sharable and playable at the same time? Would love to try some walkabout minigolf without having to buy it twice.

Beastie
Nov 3, 2006

They used to call me tricky-kid, I lived the life they wish they did.


I want more info on San Andreas god damnit

Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY


Quest 2 should be here by the end of the day. I made a burner FB account but I heard there is a permanent way to sever the need for a FB login. Is that still true?

Blade Runner
Aug 14, 2015

Neddy Seagoon posted:

It's not ARM, it's an x86 processor if it follows Steam Deck. Which could put a dent in Quest's marketshare given it'd be running PCVR software natively, so devs can make one build for the Steam headset running standalone AND PCVR.

It'd have to be pretty insane to run modern PCVR games at anything resembling a decent resolution while not having a much, much higher weight than the Steam Deck. The Deck at 399 is already an insanely low price and has nowhere near the power to run the Index, and 1600x1400 is already kinda long in the tooth. Strapping a headset onto it and having that be under 1,000 dollars is kind of a pipe dream, imo.

TorakFade
Oct 3, 2006

I strongly disapprove


As a recent VR haver, well I wouldn't be here without a Quest 2. My gaming PC is past its prime now, there's basically no chance to buy a proper GPU even at insane prices, and I would have to spend 700€ or more on top of that for an index? Hmmm.

Also my wife loves it, which she wouldn't if it was a 700€ wired contraption that had to run games from PC only. I am playing heavily modded Skyrim VR on it and airlink is good enough that I can do it wirelessly, which is mind blowing to me.

For me the quest 2 is like the playstation or Wii was: an absolute revolution for the wide public, very simple and affordable compared to anything else like it while compromising little enough that the experience is still very good, and imo it could really make VR explode. Of course it will get dumped by anyone tech savvy and nerd enough to care as soon as there's something more cutting edge on the market / they realize the limits and start spending big, but without a wide audience progress and investment might be kinda slow.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Blade Runner posted:

It'd have to be pretty insane to run modern PCVR games at anything resembling a decent resolution while not having a much, much higher weight than the Steam Deck. The Deck at 399 is already an insanely low price and has nowhere near the power to run the Index, and 1600x1400 is already kinda long in the tooth. Strapping a headset onto it and having that be under 1,000 dollars is kind of a pipe dream, imo.

Same build !== Same graphics. You just wind up having a version that runs on lowered graphical settings for the standalone headset.

Nukelear v.2
Jun 25, 2004
My optional title text

SCheeseman posted:

On the one hand, the Sonic no ethical consumption under capitalism meme.

I mean basically this. Thinking that Facebook is the worst capitalism has to offer is woefully misinformed. It really feels like people rage against tech because the invasion of privacy affects YOU as the consumer, whereas everything else you buy is likely much more problematic ethically but gets a pass because you aren't the one being harmed.

If you just buy a Quest and never buy from their store, you can at least feel like you took money from Zuck's pocket since it's likely sold at a loss.


Inzombiac posted:

Quest 2 should be here by the end of the day. I made a burner FB account but I heard there is a permanent way to sever the need for a FB login. Is that still true?

You will be able to use a Meta account, but I don't think that's live yet. And it's probably basically the same thing.

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013


Instead of cramming an entire PC into a headset, they could just cram a Steam Link into a headset, which would be a vastly cheaper option and honestly preferable, since how many people, realistically, are taking their VR headset outside the house on a regular basis, at least to somewhere else that doesn't also have a PC?

SCheeseman
Apr 23, 2003

Blade Runner posted:

It'd have to be pretty insane to run modern PCVR games at anything resembling a decent resolution while not having a much, much higher weight than the Steam Deck. The Deck at 399 is already an insanely low price and has nowhere near the power to run the Index, and 1600x1400 is already kinda long in the tooth. Strapping a headset onto it and having that be under 1,000 dollars is kind of a pipe dream, imo.
The APU used in the Deck is only deficient in it's graphics performance, which barely compares to a GTX1050. 1050ti-level performance might be enough given some compromises, foveated rendering could get it over the line. GTX 1060 performance would comfortably run most PCVR games, but getting that much power in a 15w TDP SoC is impossible today, maybe in an architecture generation or die shink?

Everything else is ready to go though, the 4c8t Zen 2 at ~3.5Ghz in Deck is already plenty and not even the newest architecture. Suffice to say ARM/x86 isn't the problem, rather the expectation that a standalone Valve headset will be performant enough to run Alyx.

Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

Instead of cramming an entire PC into a headset, they could just cram a Steam Link into a headset, which would be a vastly cheaper option and honestly preferable, since how many people, realistically, are taking their VR headset outside the house on a regular basis, at least to somewhere else that doesn't also have a PC?
A standalone PCVR headset is also a laptop with unlimited screens, screen size and real estate. Of course you'd look like a turbo nerd using one in public but the utility of a full fledged x86 desktop is substantially greater than what Quest offers.

SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Jan 19, 2022

Good soup!
Nov 2, 2010

Beastie posted:

I want more info on San Andreas god damnit

Seriously I want to see just how the gently caress the interface is gonna work out and what getting in and out vehicles will be like

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.
:byetankie:

Jim Silly-Balls posted:


"get ready to RMA it as soon as you open the box".


We talking about Quest headstraps here or

Standards are cool, and good. It's also exceptionally easy to have standards in the realm of hyper-specific entertainment. Nobody needs games, nobody needs VR. If someone doesn't want to use Facebook (for any reason) then it's very easy to just...not have that experience VR content. They aren't diminished because of it. My partner does have a Quest, and by extension a Facebook account and uses it for other things. I don't berate her for using Facebook or lecture her how its the worst thing or whatever, likewise she doesn't sneer and go "but its so CHEAP cmon everyone is doing it!" like people in this thread are prone to do. I haven't played anything on the Quest and I'm just fine for it. I also understand that it's the best and least expensive way into VR, and is a significant improvement in the lives of my wife, her sister and her mother as they all play together.

My partner is pretty pissed she's used my Index and PC to play Rec Room though, because she can absolutely easily tell a real, tangible difference in framerate and tracking performance with an Index vs her Quest 2. If it wasn't for the tether she'd have one as well, even with the added expense of a computer to drive it all. Even the dreaded :negative: lighthouses :negative:, like the ones I hung exactly once, in 2018 with my OG Vive and haven't touched since. The lightouses are something people really harp on for somehow being a pain to deal with. I don't "deal" with the shelf or clock I've hung on a wall either, you install them exactly once and then never think about them ever again.


Good soup! posted:

Seriously I want to see just how the gently caress the interface is gonna work out and what getting in and out vehicles will be like

Rockstar didn't outsource this like they did the remastered version of San Andreas that came out recently, did they? Otherwise I've got a bad feeling about this whole affair.

m.hache
Dec 1, 2004


Fun Shoe

Inzombiac posted:

Quest 2 should be here by the end of the day. I made a burner FB account but I heard there is a permanent way to sever the need for a FB login. Is that still true?

There is but it severely limits the units ability. Down the road the rumor is it can be detached again.

Also, make sure you take advantage of the referral credits before you activate your headset. Gets you and your referral a $35 credit.

If you need one PM me or choose anyone in the thread at random. I did find that last time I did it I had to add the person to my friends list in Facebook which isn't a big deal for me.

The Eyes Have It
Feb 10, 2008

Third Eye Sees All
...snookums

Butterfly Valley posted:

It's more "SOME people have your data, why aren't you okay with setting up a burner account with the name Mr Tiddles and a picture of a cat from the internet?"


Someone might not be okay with that because Facebook wants your actual, real identity on the account. Maintaining a burner is harder once you pay for things in their store, etc, which you'll probably want to do since it's a VR headset. And some people just don't want to be on a social network, especially if it's unrelated to making the hardware purchase work.

Plus if you DO make an account that isn't your real, actual identity, FB are willing to turf it (and your purchases with it). If you set up a Quest, you agreed to this.

The Eyes Have It fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Jan 19, 2022

Blade Runner
Aug 14, 2015

Neddy Seagoon posted:

Same build !== Same graphics. You just wind up having a version that runs on lowered graphical settings for the standalone headset.

I mean, maybe, but that seems like a lot of optimization, especially trying to get it into a significantly smaller form factor while also being significantly cheaper.


SCheeseman posted:

The APU used in the Deck is only deficient in it's graphics performance, which barely compares to a GTX1050. 1050ti-level performance might be enough given some compromises, foveated rendering could get it over the line. GTX 1060 performance would comfortably run most PCVR games, but getting that much power in a 15w TDP SoC is impossible today, maybe in an architecture generation or die shink?

Everything else is ready to go though, the 4c8t Zen 2 at ~3.5Ghz in Deck is already plenty and not even the newest architecture. Suffice to say ARM/x86 isn't the problem, rather the expectation that a standalone Valve headset will be performant enough to run Alyx.

A standalone PCVR headset is also a laptop with unlimited screens, screen size and real estate. Of course you'd look like a turbo nerd using one in public but the utility of a full fledged x86 desktop is substantially greater than what Quest offers.

The Deck is targeting a single 800p screen at 30 FPS for most modern games, iirc, with 60 FPS being a good bonus for less straining games. I think running two higher resolution screens at at least 90hz in a smaller form factor is kinda optimistic.

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.


VR Megathread: [0] days since last argument about Facebook

The Eyes Have It
Feb 10, 2008

Third Eye Sees All
...snookums

SCheeseman posted:

The APU used in the Deck is only deficient in it's graphics performance, which barely compares to a GTX1050. 1050ti-level performance might be enough given some compromises, foveated rendering could get it over the line. GTX 1060 performance would comfortably run most PCVR games, but getting that much power in a 15w TDP SoC is impossible today, maybe in an architecture generation or die shink?

This makes me realize that all the graphical performance optimization development going on lately is pretty exciting.

Historically, graphical optimizations have mainly been from a, uh, "optimized horsepower" angle combined with ever-faster GPUs being available.

Now, especially with VR, we're seeing new approaches to wringing performance out of hardware -- like ASW and foveated rendering and stuff. It's pretty exciting stuff.

forest spirit
Apr 6, 2009

Frigate Hetman Sahaidachny
First to Fight Scuttle, First to Fall Sink


The Eyes Have It posted:

This makes me realize that all the graphical performance optimization development going on lately is pretty exciting.

Historically, graphical optimizations have mainly been from a, uh, "optimized horsepower" angle combined with ever-faster GPUs being available.

Now, especially with VR, we're seeing new approaches to wringing performance out of hardware -- like ASW and foveated rendering and stuff. It's pretty exciting stuff.

Yeah opening youtube and seeing modern vintage gamer talk about a GBA port of Tomb Raider is interesting as hell. Using look up tables for shaders or whatever because it can't actually do the calculations. I'm looking forward to when a magician gets half life to run on it

Gearhead
Feb 13, 2007
The Metroid of Humor

njsykora posted:

VR Megathread: [0] days since last argument about Facebook

I mean, my stance on it is fairly simple: If I were getting into VR today, having not already set myself up for outside in tracking, I'd probably get a Quest 2 without any arguments. It's a very powerful piece of equipment for the price and my computer is already a gaming rig, which means it can be propped up. I don't particularly LIKE Facebook, but drat it's a nice piece of hardware.

On the other hand, I have a lighthouse setup already, which kind of puts me on a particular upgrade path.

Beastie
Nov 3, 2006

They used to call me tricky-kid, I lived the life they wish they did.


KakerMix posted:

Rockstar didn't outsource this like they did the remastered version of San Andreas that came out recently, did they? Otherwise I've got a bad feeling about this whole affair.

I seem to recall this was being done by a FB owned studio

SCheeseman
Apr 23, 2003

Blade Runner posted:

The Deck is targeting a single 800p screen at 30 FPS for most modern games, iirc, with 60 FPS being a good bonus for less straining games. I think running two higher resolution screens at at least 90hz in a smaller form factor is kinda optimistic.
PCVR games aren't modern AAA games. Minimum spec for PCVR at 90hz and around 1.5k x 1.5k pixels per eye with lowish detail settings tends to be a GTX 970/R9 290. The GPU in the deck is (charitably) one or two generations from hitting that level of performance.

Also keep in mind that the Deck's GPU blows Quest 2's out of the water, acceptable performance comes from heavy optimization through limiting use of graphical features and reducing asset and rendering fidelity (almost nothing on Quest runs at native res).

SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jan 19, 2022

Private Speech
Mar 30, 2011

I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.


TBH I wonder if SA is big enough to qualify for having a facebook-employed poster here, with how vociferous the support for Quest is.

Facebook certainly does that on some places like reddit and youtube (e.g.: Longtime VR tuber/"Oculus fan" casually reveals they work for Facebook)

Enos Cabell
Nov 3, 2004


KakerMix posted:

Rockstar didn't outsource this like they did the remastered version of San Andreas that came out recently, did they? Otherwise I've got a bad feeling about this whole affair.

Yeah, I was excited about San Andreas VR before playing the "Definitive Edition". They really did that game wrong, and it doesn't leave me with any confidence they'll treat a VR port any better.

Jokerpilled Drudge
Jan 27, 2010

by Pragmatica

Private Speech posted:

TBH I wonder if SA is big enough to qualify for having a facebook-employed poster here, with how vociferous the support for Quest is.

Facebook certainly does that on some places like reddit and youtube (e.g.: Longtime VR tuber/"Oculus fan" casually reveals they work for Facebook)

buying a facebook product (and then pirating 90% of the vr software) is one thing but actually working there is beyond the pale.


it's really tough to imagine San Andreas VR being good but after seeing resident evil 4 I have hope

MeatRocket8
Aug 3, 2011

Replaying HL: Alyx, but this time having better performance with Virtual Desktop instead of airlink. This game makes most other VR games look like Atari games.

GutBomb
Jun 15, 2005

Dude?

Private Speech posted:

TBH I wonder if SA is big enough to qualify for having a facebook-employed poster here, with how vociferous the support for Quest is.

Facebook certainly does that on some places like reddit and youtube (e.g.: Longtime VR tuber/"Oculus fan" casually reveals they work for Facebook)

They don't need one. The thread already has enough facebook shills in it as it is.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020

lol "facebook shills"

Sure buddy

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

Ah, we're having this back and forth again. Here's my latest: I would rather VR not exist at all than Facebook control the VR industry, and I work in VR.

Quest 2 is obviously the highest value device, and it is artificially, deliberately positioned that way as a loss-leader in order to drive competition out of the VR industry (as stated by Facebook execs in leaked documents). It's weird that people get defensive or argumentative about someone saying "I don't want to buy anything from Facebook". Those statements are all true!

mutata fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Jan 19, 2022

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King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

You think you can take me at Satan's Hollow? Go 'head on!
I mean I hate Facebook and have an Index, but I also understand that the Quest 2 is by far the more popular and more purchased VR headset. Odds are high that the vast majority of posters posting ITT have a Quest 2. There's also the fact that PCVR releases now have kinda slowed to a trickle, and nearly all notable VR releases are coming out on Quest 2 exclusively. Whenever there's new VR game news, it's probably about a game coming to the Quest.

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