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Ask HN: Why isn't computer programming a major part of the arts?
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Feb 5, 2022 16:24
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NihilCredo posted:Ask HN: Why isn't computer programming a major part of the arts? garyfirestorm 1 hour ago | parent | context | next [–] | on: Ask HN: Why isn't computer programming a major par... Lot of liberal arts professors/schools/students don’t understand that anything outside Shakespeare is also art or important part of life. Also most of the engineering looks down upon liberal arts and they tend to return the favor. As a foreign national, I am perplexed by this stubbornness and digging your own grave mentality. People simply don’t value multidisciplinary knowledge. I would ask the author to repeat his question at the nearest liberal arts school and watch people’s faces turning into visible discomfort. These have become sort of polarizing domains where general public cannot have a coherent dialogue about it anymore. I’m sure there are exceptions.
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Feb 5, 2022 17:10
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Tired: (In C.P Snow voice) People in the humanities should try to have basic knowledge about stuff like the laws of thermodynamics to the same degree that people in the sciences know about the arts Wired: The arts/humanities are worthless, also programming is a better art than all the arts, why don't they recognize us as their rightful rulers? 
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Feb 5, 2022 17:19
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generative music classes bout to ruin these peoples whole career
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Feb 5, 2022 18:56
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unpopular opinion: Knuth was right and programming is an art form in the same way that architecture is. Also PG was unexpectedly right and there are many similarities to the way my mother (A highly accomplished painter who is now teaching for an extremely prestigious organisation) has to mentally handle composition, form, etc. and the way I have to as a programmer -- even if the nitty gritty "cracking the egg and making the omlette" parts are different. We've talked about it a lot. Aside from that, programmers and mathematicians who go through college should be forced to do mandatory social science courses in addition to programming. If only to stop them constantly making poo poo up about how the world works and learn that other subjects are as important and just as complex as their own little programming fiefdom
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Feb 5, 2022 20:41
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Somewhere a monkey's paw curls and the devs are taking Macroeconomics 101 and are now convinced that the only issue with capitalism is that government regulations break the free market efficiency 
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Feb 5, 2022 22:24
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Xarn posted:Somewhere a monkey's paw curls and the devs are taking Macroeconomics 101 and are now convinced that the only issue with capitalism is that government regulations break the free market efficiency So you're saying they become economists?
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Feb 5, 2022 23:16
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there's no theorem that describes the "correct" way to describe a solution to a computer any more than there is a "correct" way to describe things to a human teach programming like creative writing because the two activities are more alike than a lot of people care to admit
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Feb 6, 2022 00:53
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computer programming is an art and its called Technical Communication and everyone is poo poo at it because nerds are bad at talking to other people
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Feb 6, 2022 08:45
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lobsterminator posted:Who needs to die for Electron to die? https://twitter.com/_Ninji/status/1489787036416417793
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Feb 6, 2022 09:55
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alexandriao posted:unpopular opinion: Knuth was right and programming is an art form in the same way that architecture is. Also PG was unexpectedly right and there are many similarities to the way my mother (A highly accomplished painter who is now teaching for an extremely prestigious organisation) has to mentally handle composition, form, etc. and the way I have to as a programmer -- even if the nitty gritty "cracking the egg and making the omlette" parts are different. We've talked about it a lot. i don’t think this is really an unpopular opinion? it’s just facts. programming is a creative endeavor. really good dev teams work more like kitchens than assembly lines.
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Feb 6, 2022 18:30
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Just imagine what Rembrandt could've achieved with a scrum master.
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Feb 6, 2022 18:37
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notch656a 2 hours ago | undown | root | parent | prev | next [–] The federal government is the worst 'wildcat' bank as it's a wildcat bank who has refused to redeem dollars for the gold they said it was backed by (eventually in '71 totally reneging their obligation), at one point even outlawing private ownership of gold (the item the currency was backed by) and actually intentionally destroy the currency by target of at least 2% each year. A wildcat bank whos notes you are compelled to purchase, at pain of being in violation of tax law. At least in the old wildcat banks, you had a shot of redeeming for specie if you went out to the sticks where the main branch was. reply
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Feb 6, 2022 21:43
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you don’t have to pay taxes though, just don’t earn an income or own property or purchase anything
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Feb 6, 2022 21:59
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alexandriao posted:unpopular opinion: Knuth was right and programming is an art form in the same way that architecture is. Also PG was unexpectedly right and there are many similarities to the way my mother (A highly accomplished painter who is now teaching for an extremely prestigious organisation) has to mentally handle composition, form, etc. and the way I have to as a programmer -- even if the nitty gritty "cracking the egg and making the omlette" parts are different. We've talked about it a lot. its a problem with experts in general. some people, once they have expertise in an area, assume that all other areas of expertise are trivial. it's not limited to programmers as i recall PG's essay was titled "hackers and painters" and was incredibly pretentious and self-indulgent. the man's brain is mush and i have no doubt that even if he reached a correct conclusion it was entirely accidental. also the activity he describes as "hacking" is repeatedly stroking yourself off over how clever you are until your project is covered in s-expressions. are you saying that is how you work
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Feb 7, 2022 02:24
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i think that there are a great many things you could compare to writing software that have about the same level of similarities as painting. a less pretentious takeaway would be that maybe "hacking" isn't all that unusual or unique.
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Feb 7, 2022 05:50
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I'm a web developer and dataviz designer who reloads pages 100 times per day, and I could not give less of a poo poo about ~1s differences in download times that people bitch about from "bloated" JS bundles. Maybe my perspective is out of synch with users though; I did grow up with 56k and endless loading screens in games so maybe I have more patience? But then I've been grappling with violent-outburst impatience/frustration (whole life) and getting treatment for ADD/depression (11 years), so the fact that average people have an easier time waiting makes me respect their complaints even less. Facebook should die but React needs to survive or be rewritten as OSS. It feels like D3 and is extremely intuitive once you understand the order of lifecycle events and hook rerenders. JSX is brilliant and should be how HTML behaves naturally. React is way better than JQuerey and Angular circa 2014. And with TypeScript we can know at any point in the code what to expect from a variable, or safely attempt to access its methods even if it doesn't exist. The programming parts of my job have been getting easier, more fun, and more powerful every year. It's a great time to work in frontend if you actually like opinionated frameworks. Maybe the fact I studied pure math, then switched to applied math, then double majored in physics, then started & dropped out of a materials science PhD (all with minimal programming skill) lets me see how much other fields can be amplified by embracing programming. Analytic Engine fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Feb 7, 2022 |
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Feb 7, 2022 12:37
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Someone required hottakes.js
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Feb 7, 2022 12:39
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I also had a shitload of required GEs (more than Engineering schools) like sociology, ethnic studies, art philosophy, forestry law, public speaking, political science, etc. I'm an online Leftist but would have probably fallen to the Alt Right without that solid liberal arts education. Even then I think those subjects could benefit from more computer integration.
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Feb 7, 2022 12:46
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Analytic Engine posted:I'm a web developer and dataviz designer who reloads pages 100 times per day, and I could not give less of a poo poo about ~1s differences in download times that people bitch about from "bloated" JS bundles. Maybe my perspective is out of synch with users though; I did grow up with 56k and endless loading screens in games so maybe I have more patience? But then I've been grappling with violent-outburst impatience/frustration (whole life) and getting treatment for ADD/depression (11 years), so the fact that average people have an easier time waiting makes me respect their complaints even less. either source your quotes or consider that 99% of people who know web dev and also know what they are doing, are absolutely not even admitting that they know any web dev, let alone work in web dev. now why is that hmm
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Feb 7, 2022 12:51
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Analytic Engine posted:I also had a shitload of required GEs (more than Engineering schools) like sociology, ethnic studies, art philosophy, forestry law, public speaking, political science, etc. I'm an online Leftist but would have probably fallen to the Alt Right without that solid liberal arts education. Even then I think those subjects could benefit from more computer integration. you’re going to have to make a really convincing case for this, because “$subject but with computer” is basically “$thing but with an app” and “$thing but on the blockchain”. the common thread here being: adding computers to things is not some magic bullet for making things better and in reality it means expensive supply contracts, and making everyones lives more complex
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Feb 7, 2022 12:56
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you are either being trolled or you're quoting what might be the dumbest sincere posts in history
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Feb 7, 2022 12:58
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the hn is coming from inside the thread
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Feb 7, 2022 13:48
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Armitag3 posted:Someone required hottakes.js You have to import it these days, it’s moved to ES modules.
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Feb 7, 2022 14:45
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:you are either being trolled or you're quoting what might be the dumbest sincere posts in history Too long for a thread title?
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Feb 8, 2022 00:37
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Penisface posted:either source your quotes or consider that 99% of people who know web dev and also know what they are doing, are absolutely not even admitting that they know any web dev, let alone work in web dev. now why is that hmm maybe I have a dumb worldview, I'm open to improvement. why is that true in your opinion? I imagine because the modern web is considered a trash fire by everyone here, but are there other reasons?
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Feb 8, 2022 01:31
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(also I realized I don't post in this thread vs my other YOSPOS bookmarks, so this came off as an unprompted drive-by shitpost)
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Feb 8, 2022 01:34
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(and I'm not standing up for HN, I hate SV-style startup culture and the rear end in a top hat founders and VCs profiting from it)
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Feb 8, 2022 01:38
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idk people like to dickwave about doing real programming a lot i don't like doing webshit. but it puts food on my table and i don't work for a company that is gleefully complicit in the concentration camp biz. and as fashionable as it is to poo poo on webdev there are much crappier programming environments out there.
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Feb 8, 2022 02:57
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Xarn posted:Somewhere a monkey's paw curls and the devs are taking Macroeconomics 101 and are now convinced that the only issue with capitalism is that government regulations break the free market efficiency Econ professors are often right-wingers independent of STEMlord free market rationality cargo cults My Econ prof had a whole bit about why rent control was bad because it led to market distortions. It was an intro level course too lmao
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Feb 8, 2022 03:53
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Analytic Engine posted:maybe I have a dumb worldview, I'm open to improvement. why is that true in your opinion? I imagine because the modern web is considered a trash fire by everyone here, but are there other reasons? your main problem is that itt you are not allowed to like computer. liking computer is something hackernews does and this is the thread for hating hackernews and everything it stands for
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Feb 8, 2022 04:56
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Nomnom Cookie posted:its a problem with experts in general. some people, once they have expertise in an area, assume that all other areas of expertise are trivial. it's not limited to programmers In my experience the god complex of the budding computer scientist is much larger than that of the micro-biologist or the theoretical physicist. Nomnom Cookie posted:as i recall PG's essay was titled "hackers and painters" and was incredibly pretentious and self-indulgent. the man's brain is mush and i have no doubt that even if he reached a correct conclusion it was entirely accidental. His general thesis was self-indulgent (And about half the book is complete rubbish), but the main points are: - Programmers need to cultivate a "design sense" just like most artists, except it is more urgent and longer to develop in the form of the programmer simply for the fact that people are exposed to examples of "Good Art" throughout life, but not "Good Programs" - The design and form of programming is very much a form of craft, and art at that Nomnom Cookie posted:also the activity he describes as "hacking" is repeatedly stroking yourself off over how clever you are until your project is covered in s-expressions. are you saying that is how you work lol, I think they do tend to over-engineering, unfortunately I didn't know I was browsing hacker news
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Feb 8, 2022 05:14
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Analytic Engine posted:maybe I have a dumb worldview, I'm open to improvement. why is that true in your opinion? I imagine because the modern web is considered a trash fire by everyone here, but are there other reasons? Watching people add even more abstractional layers to get a simple loving GUI and watching them do complex pirouettes and ollies just to get the thing performant and loading well, like watching people adding rows to the tower of babble is not really my idea of "Good" React might be good if it were closer to the metal, and had nothing in relation to Javascript, one of the worst languages in the history of mankind second only to APL (but at least APL had a consistent idea behind it)
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Feb 8, 2022 05:23
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That's right Flutter ftw
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Feb 8, 2022 05:31
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alexandriao posted:His general thesis was self-indulgent (And about half the book is complete rubbish), but the main points are: imagine if artists were even 1/10th as cynical and impossible to please as programmers just tons of people ripping every work that isn't made with the right materials to shreds and insisting that Good Art Isn't Possible while patting themselves on the back because At Least I Admit It
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Feb 8, 2022 05:52
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imagine if your posts were even 1/10th as useless
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Feb 8, 2022 05:59
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alexandriao posted:React might be good if it were closer to the metal, and had nothing in relation to Javascript, one of the worst languages in the history of mankind second only to APL (but at least APL had a consistent idea behind it) show me on the tacit composition where apl hurt you
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Feb 8, 2022 06:03
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it's in this vector somewhere
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Feb 8, 2022 06:07
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DELETE CASCADE posted:imagine if your posts were even 1/10th as useless as yours? they'd be terrible.
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Feb 8, 2022 06:14
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alexandriao posted:React might be good if it were closer to the metal, and had nothing in relation to Javascript, one of the worst languages in the history of mankind second only to APL (but at least APL had a consistent idea behind it) rust can target wasm i smell another "...but in rust!" opportunity
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Feb 8, 2022 06:29
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