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modern react is fine, it's a solid stepping stone that helps to demarcate the difference of investment between a client side web app and web site. i say stepping stone because there's clearly something better out there, it just doesn't exist yet, but we're seeing the hints of it. it will probably be some kind of wasm-based batteries-included full stack that has edge compute as a first class citizen and has its own canvas/webgpu renderer so mere mortals can pull off poo poo like google docs.
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Feb 8, 2022 07:17
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that just sounds like the traditional os over the last 25 odd years, except in javascript
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Feb 8, 2022 08:00
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Zamujasa posted:that just sounds like the traditional os over the last 25 odd years, except in javascript finally we can emulate an entire computer in the browser and then run citrix inside it and inside that is a windows xp vm running ie 6 and that is how you access the time off system
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Feb 8, 2022 08:54
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chaosbreather posted:modern react is fine, it's a solid stepping stone that helps to demarcate the difference of investment between a client side web app and web site. i say stepping stone because there's clearly something better out there, it just doesn't exist yet, but we're seeing the hints of it. it will probably be some kind of wasm-based batteries-included full stack that has edge compute as a first class citizen and has its own canvas/webgpu renderer so mere mortals can pull off poo poo like google docs. Hmm......... there's something better than webshit out there.... just.... hmm... have no idea what it is.... mmm ...
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Feb 8, 2022 08:55
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Soon the browser will spread to include qemu (no shut up i know about qemu in js) and we will have like a garbage mixture of SmallTalk or Pharo and fuckin.. virtualbox/docker edit: lol got beaten too it
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Feb 8, 2022 08:57
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Nomnom Cookie posted:your main problem is that itt you are not allowed to like computer. liking computer is something hackernews does and this is the thread for hating hackernews and everything it stands for yeah, not saying "computer bad" is the issue, and not this incredible nonsense: Analytic Engine posted:Maybe the fact I studied pure math, then switched to applied math, then double majored in physics, then started & dropped out of a materials science PhD (all with minimal programming skill) lets me see how much other fields can be amplified by embracing programming.
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Feb 8, 2022 10:01
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carry on then posted:imagine if artists were even 1/10th as cynical and impossible to please as programmers i mean, it’s not about materials per se, but there is absolutely an insular and elitist discourse in the art world about what constitutes art and who counts as an artist
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Feb 8, 2022 10:39
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I believe software needs more formal methods and rigor, not more art
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Feb 8, 2022 11:16
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:yeah, not saying "computer bad" is the issue, and not this incredible nonsense: I'm proposing that comfortability and minor skills with computer-touching are going to be a baseline standard for doing anything of value in specialized fields from the near-future onwards. That excludes academic subjects where articles/essays/monographs are the standard (not spergingly mocking them, they just value different things) No matter how much you're jaded about and ironically above computers, do you really think Sociology isn't going to creep towards "Data Science"? I do strongly oppose the elitism of Data Science jobs and worry that loving EVERY job involving math (that isn't programming) will soon require a masters in stats or a newly-created Data Science degree for a cool $60k
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Feb 8, 2022 11:19
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Analytic Engine posted:I'm proposing that comfortability and minor skills with computer-touching are going to be a baseline standard for doing anything of value in specialized fields from the near-future onwards. That excludes academic subjects where articles/essays/monographs are the standard (not spergingly mocking them, they just value different things) you really should just commit to the bit and post these on hn directly
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Feb 8, 2022 11:29
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:you really should just commit to the bit and post these on hn directly do you actually read HN? they'd flay me alive for proposing that making a page that takes time to load and using high-level framework are fine for "good" "professional" developers. they're mostly Jon Blows yelling at abstractions I had the urge to post here because every thread on HN about webdev is flooded with grognards decrying React and wishing the web would go back to its rightful structure of interconnected static text pages
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Feb 8, 2022 11:33
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Xarn posted:I believe software needs more formal methods and rigor, not more art yeah architecture is still the best comparison from the classical arts you can put in all the balconets, scrollworks and modillions you want, sure. _after_ you make sure it doesn't crumble in a stiff breeze
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Feb 8, 2022 11:47
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sociology as an "industry" doesn't really exist, there's like 10 positions annually in the US for sociologists
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Feb 8, 2022 11:50
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computer bad
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Feb 8, 2022 12:58
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kitten emergency posted:the hn is coming from inside the thread
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Feb 8, 2022 13:30
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NihilCredo posted:yeah architecture is still the best comparison from the classical arts counterpoint : no one would have ever cared about Pisa's tower if they had done that
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Feb 8, 2022 13:32
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Xarn posted:I believe software needs more formal methods and rigor, not more art Most software would simply not be economically viable under that model, both because of the effort and the loss of flexibility required. We frequently develop the wrong thing, or rather do not even know the use case we develop for, so doing it formally just means doing the wrong thing more expensively. Don't get me wrong, I think most software is loving awful and needs to drastically improve, but I also think it's not gonna happen. This is somewhat fine, the problem is probably more in having people move critical societal functions to non-critical-grade software because it turns out the non-critical-grade software happens to be all they can afford in shifting circumstances or because it turns out to be more usable as well? Who knows, but we won't be getting more formalism unless people drastically change their conceptualization of risk, or unless government or insurance companies do it for them.
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Feb 8, 2022 14:47
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Zlodo posted:counterpoint : no one would have ever cared about Pisa's tower if they had done that Leaning ain't crumbling! Read the spec.
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Feb 8, 2022 15:12
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kitten emergency posted:i don’t think this is really an unpopular opinion? it’s just facts. programming is a creative endeavor. really good dev teams work more like kitchens than assembly lines. did you come up with this metaphor or is it from somewhere else because i really love it Analytic Engine posted:I had the urge to post here because every thread on HN about webdev is flooded with grognards decrying React and wishing the web would go back to its rightful structure of interconnected static text pages that’s the one thing hn gets right
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Feb 8, 2022 15:32
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To me, formal methods and rigorousness is a spectrum, and just moving people to use languages with strong compile-time checks like Rust would help the discipline a lot. I agree that trying to do everything in Agda/Coq/similar would be impractical, but maybe I shouldn't have to fix yet another security issue caused by lovely C code written by idiotic C fetishists in TYOOL 2022? (I say as I spend my time writing C++, but at least we never touch a security boundary  )----edit----- Honestly I would be happy with just the culture around software development being more rigorous than just yeeting stringly typed code in prod and then doing surprised pikachu face when everything breaks due to some unrelated changes 3 months later.
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Feb 8, 2022 16:12
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on the one hand safer typing would have helped with heartblead. on the other hand, poo poo like log4j was an actually built-in feature that typed-checked fine and there is almost no actual strong evidence that static typing has a significant impact on software quality. Hillel Wayne wrote a good article on that, which mostly focuses on the idea that if you're going for evidence-based empirical science, your engineers' sleep quality is likely more significant than any technology or methodology they decide to have: https://increment.com/teams/the-epistemology-of-software-quality/
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Feb 8, 2022 16:42
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what about capabilities, seems like it would be pretty valuable to statically prove that your logging library can't open a socket
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Feb 8, 2022 17:03
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:yeah, not saying "computer bad" is the issue, and not this incredible nonsense: i mean yeah its kinda rambling and incoherent but if it was word salad that added up to "computer bad" people wouldn't be dunking on the guy Analytic Engine posted:do you actually read HN? they'd flay me alive for proposing that making a page that takes time to load and using high-level framework are fine for "good" "professional" developers. see this is what i'm trying to say, this is not the "people who wish they were posting on hn but hn would disagree with them" thread its the "hn delenda est" thread
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Feb 8, 2022 17:05
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thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30260987 Two arrested for alleged conspiracy to launder $4.5B in stolen cryptocurrency (justice.gov) broland 1 hour ago | next [–] fwiw, it appears one of the named here is a YC Alum: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=il https://www.linkedin.com/in/unrealdutch/ reply rasz 1 hour ago | prev | next [–] "Today Ilya Lichtenstein is the co-founder of the Y Combinator backed Mix Rank," One of the first Google results for the names returns 'Get your first $1 million in enterprise sales with zero marketing spend' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuIr5IFQ9Xg Heather R Morgan Serial entrepreneur SaaS Investor Razzlekhan = Surrealist Artist, Rapper & Fashion Designer with synesthesia Also Forbes writer https://www.inc.com/heather-r-morgan/dont-hire-a-salesperson... "As I build a sales team for my latest software startup, Endpass" Endpass "Bringing you the delightful and secure Ethereum wallet that's easy enough for grandma to use." Wait, so did Feds nab them for running Ethereum wallet startup and claim $3B in client wallets as theirs? Or did the pair start Ethereum wallet company to wash stolen coints? reply
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Feb 8, 2022 19:31
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fritz posted:Surrealist Artist, Rapper & Fashion Designer with synesthesia Also Forbes writer
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Feb 8, 2022 19:35
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i try not to browse hn too often, but whenever i do i find myself surprised that it isn't wall-to-wall crypto nonsense since it seems like the sort of thing posters there would be particularly interested in guess based on that understanding it's not surprising an ex-yc person was involved in some sort of crypto-related scam epitaph fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Feb 8, 2022 |
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Feb 8, 2022 19:45
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alexandriao posted:Soon the browser will spread to include qemu (no shut up i know about qemu in js) and we will have like a garbage mixture of SmallTalk or Pharo and fuckin.. virtualbox/docker QEMU should have a WASM front-end as well as a WASM back-end, just for completeness
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Feb 8, 2022 20:07
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Analytic Engine posted:I had the urge to post here because every thread on HN about webdev is flooded with grognards decrying React and wishing the web would go back to its rightful structure of interconnected static text pages are they really wrong though? back in the day there were lots of people doing things like you are on platforms like Genera, Macintosh Common Lisp, NEXTSTEP, and Tcl/Tk
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Feb 8, 2022 20:28
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has "serial entrepreneur" ever meant anything other than repeated failure?
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Feb 8, 2022 20:41
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i've been wondering that. i've been getting spammed with recruiter requests for a startup in which the pitch describes the CEO as a "serial entrepreneur." is that supposed to be a selling point?
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Feb 8, 2022 20:48
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epitaph posted:i try not to browse hn too often, but whenever i do i find myself surprised that it isn't wall-to-wall crypto nonsense since it seems like the sort of thing posters there would be particularly interested in for all it's faults HN is fairly anti-crypto
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Feb 8, 2022 20:57
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epitaph posted:i try not to browse hn too often, but whenever i do i find myself surprised that it isn't wall-to-wall crypto nonsense since it seems like the sort of thing posters there would be particularly interested in hn threads about crypto topics are a pretty even mix of people making GBS threads on crypto and people complaining about how hn constantly shits on crypto, with basically no actual discussion. there's a large vocal group of crypto-shillers who like to lie about how bitcoin has improved their lives in their third-world country with no functioning financial system (while posting about living in SV in different threads), but the anti-crypto crowd is just as loud.
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Feb 8, 2022 20:57
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Xarn posted:I believe software needs more formal methods and rigor, not more art the idea that art and formal mathematical proof are at two different ends of a spectrum is to spectacularly misunderstand both. mathematics is a field of intense imagination and artistry, it is the study of pattern itself it has a long boring poorly taught ramp that takes an entire educational career to get to but maths is profoundly artistic, maybe the most artistic, because the truths created and expressed are universal beyond universes.
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Feb 8, 2022 21:26
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Truman Peyote posted:i've been wondering that. i've been getting spammed with recruiter requests for a startup in which the pitch describes the CEO as a "serial entrepreneur." is that supposed to be a selling point? they already scammed all their friends in prior endeavors and have resorted to emailing randos
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Feb 8, 2022 21:26
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chaosbreather 1 hour ago | next [–] the idea that art and formal mathematical proof are at two different ends of a spectrum is to spectacularly misunderstand both. mathematics is a field of intense imagination and artistry, it is the study of pattern itself it has a long boring poorly taught ramp that takes an entire educational career to get to but maths is profoundly artistic, maybe the most artistic, because the truths created and expressed are universal beyond universes.
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Feb 8, 2022 21:28
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godel, escher, bach, me (when i slightly improve the precision of our vulnerable user detection model to target radicalizing content at them it is mathematically beautiful and also artistic af)
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Feb 8, 2022 21:30
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the actual issue with software as a field is people keep trying to use it to do boring poo poo like business on it instead of fun cool stuff like making cool sounds and graphics that spin around. computers are just fun toys and don’t really have any practical business applications.
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Feb 8, 2022 21:32
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but porn is a business
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Feb 8, 2022 22:03
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some people enjoy the "coming up with an idea / getting the idea off the ground / building a team / working to make it a success" part of business a lot more than the "manage a large company" part of business those people often leave a company once it reaches a certain size (or they sell it off) and then start again with another new idea. thats the platonic ideal of a "serial entrepreneur". such people exist but their numbers are drowned out by the people who call themselves serial entrepreneurs (by which they mean repeated failures) serial entrepreneur should be slotted in with its etymological stablemates, the serial killer and the serial rapist
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Feb 8, 2022 22:13
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We know how to build safety critical software. In fields where safety matters the rate of software engineering defects is no greater than the rate of mechanical engineering defects. Formal validation is also a red herring. As far as I am aware General Electric does not stick the set of all the mechanical drawings for their new aircraft engine designs (and every assembly line for every one of the subcontractors involved down to the bolts and rivets) into a theorem proving engine that then says "Yep I have constructed and proved a theorem that says that this engine will remain intact and operational under all specified operating conditions". They validate their designs by adding safety margins, performing human design review, and running experiments. Same as what they do for the software that controls those engines. Maybe I'm wrong about that though, I'm not an aerospace engineer. Source: Sapozhnik, the Something Awful forums.
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Feb 8, 2022 23:00
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