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discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie

Grand Fromage posted:

DS9 is also very good, just different. If you were forcing me to rank 90s SF shows I'd put it second after B5. Also it has Garak.

Nice. My friend has been rewatching it and keeps telling me how good it is and how much he thinks I'll like it. I tend to prefer shows that are more serialized than episodic, and it sounds like it gets more into that area later on from what I understand.

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Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


discoukulele posted:

Nice. My friend has been rewatching it and keeps telling me how good it is and how much he thinks I'll like it. I tend to prefer shows that are more serialized than episodic, and it sounds like it gets more into that area later on from what I understand.

Yep. it's never serialized to the extent of B5, but it has a nice mix of both. Character continuity is important the entire time and story serialization increases in the later seasons, much different from TNG.

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread

discoukulele posted:

Nice. My friend has been rewatching it and keeps telling me how good it is and how much he thinks I'll like it. I tend to prefer shows that are more serialized than episodic, and it sounds like it gets more into that area later on from what I understand.

It doesn’t necessarily have a running story, more of a consistent setting and theme. It’s basically that Simpsons joke about how everything will be back to normal next week until about the last dozen episodes or so. I don’t rate it at all but despite its flaws it’s watchable because of some of the actors involved - Jeffrey Combs and Andrew Robinson in particular steal every scene they’re in.

Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010

Grand Fromage posted:

DS9 is also very good, just different. If you were forcing me to rank 90s SF shows I'd put it second after B5. Also it has Garak.

I'm about halfway through B5 and I don't believe the theory that DS9 copied it all other than that they might have gotten the same pitch and started from there. (But they went in different directions)

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


IIRC there's some circumstantial evidence that Paramount stole the idea for a space station-based show from JMS's pitch for B5 but not much beyond that.

Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010

ultrafilter posted:

IIRC there's some circumstantial evidence that Paramount stole the idea for a space station-based show from JMS's pitch for B5 but not much beyond that.

Yeah but like I don't think they really hit the same plot points.

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000

removed

Mr. Apollo fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Feb 11, 2022

Electric_Mud
May 31, 2011

>10 THRUST "ROBO_COX"
>20 GOTO 10
There's a lot of spoilers in that list for both shows, it's a good read if you've watched them but if you haven't do not click.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


I mean, the simple fact that DS9 had an overarching plot, and was like the ONLY star trek to do so for a very long time, tells me they definitely took the pitch and ran with it. I don't think anyone ever claimed they stole the entire pitch line for line though. And DS9 was grittier than other treks at the time.

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread
DS9 certainly cribbed a lot from B5 but a bunch of that HUGE LIST OF MASSIVE SPOILERS are essentially generic sci-fi plot beats. You could probably do the same with Stargate vs Voyager if you squinted a little.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Yeah don't post that in this thread. Also a lot of that is a huge stretch.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
A production thing to know about The Lost Tales: WB offered JMS the chance to make direct-to-DVD stories. Then they gave him almost no money to do it. If you get your hands on the DVD, you'll see multiple mentions of staging scenes with puppets, because JMS' original response to WB's budget was "well, we could afford to produce the first stories if instead of actors, we used puppets."

In the end, he had $2 million to produce the equivalent of two B5 episodes. B5's budget was around $800,000 per episode in the 90s. Correcting for inflation in 2007, that's $1.14 million. So JMS had less money to produce The Lost Tales, starting from scratch (no sets paid for by the pilot movie, for example--in 2007 dollars, The Gathering cost over $5 million). There's a reason he directed the thing himself and used so few actors. OTOH, CGI advanced a lot between 1993 and 2007.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Narsham posted:

OTOH, CGI advanced a lot between 1993 and 2007.

Yeah, the space bit was worth watching if nothing else. B5 with BSG effects. :fap:

Vitruvian Manic
Dec 5, 2021

by Fluffdaddy

discoukulele posted:

I may end up circling back around to Crusade at some point. After all of this, I'm planning to start watching DS9 for the first time. It's been on my list for awhile and I've been itching to get it going. I have a feeling B5 is ultimately going to be the better one by far, but I'm really curious about it.

DS9 is good but different -- more constrained and more Trek (with all the good and bad and baggage that entails).

If you are looking for a similar-but-different (albeit inferior) high to B5, I'd recommend Farscape. B5 is a solid dose of mushrooms. DS9 is a threshold dose LSD, a joint and a couple of beers. Farscape is a solid dose of 2C-B.

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie

Vitruvian Manic posted:

DS9 is good but different -- more constrained and more Trek (with all the good and bad and baggage that entails).

If you are looking for a similar-but-different (albeit inferior) high to B5, I'd recommend Farscape. B5 is a solid dose of mushrooms. DS9 is a threshold dose LSD, a joint and a couple of beers. Farscape is a solid dose of 2C-B.

Well I'm sold. I've only seen a couple of episodes of Farscape and I liked what I saw. I might watch DS9 and Farscape concurrently since (from what I gather) they're not as plot-intensive as B5.

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie
River of Souls
  • Some archeologists are digging into some ancient alien stuff, which always ends well
  • It's some sort of symbol of eternal life
  • They find a giant vault of souls and apparently set off an alarm. Dude decides it's a good idea to steal a soul.
  • Garibaldi's back!
  • Apparently people can have sex with holograms
  • oh gently caress, the archeologist brought his light-up bowling ball!
  • B5 has a Holobrothel!
    Lord have mercy on our souls!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5EkcuhBwiU
  • lmao this loving Oedipal self-abuse bat
  • When did we see the Soul Hunters? Was that like season one? Maybe two?
  • So the Soul Hunters gathered a billion souls from a dying planet and the archeologist has them
  • yeah, so having a pissed-off, billion-soul hivemind laying around probably isn't a good thing
  • hahah this loving budget Tron suit
  • y'all Franklin's accent, I can't.
  • Lochley's near death experience is hokey as hell and I love it
  • So the people on the “dead” planet weren't dying, they were being raptured into a higher state of evolution
  • loving christ sex worker Lochley + these corny yellow CGI spirits. Amazing.
  • The Soul Hunter passes his diplomacy check against 1 billion souls and rights the wrong that his people made.
  • and the Oedipal bat gets modded (I was really hoping someone would get KO'd with it at some point)
  • Anyways, overall thoughts – this one was pretty cornball, but fun. It was kinda cool to see a post-Sheridan B5, too.

discoukulele fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Feb 12, 2022

Vitruvian Manic
Dec 5, 2021

by Fluffdaddy

discoukulele posted:

River of Souls


Glad I could help on Farscape :)

Also, if you are craving more B5 and don't mind indulging in some adolescent cringe, "A Dark Distorted Mirror" was a fun read when the show was airing. I tried posting my take on the first bit in this thread (and got banned for it, lol) and yeah, it's fan fiction. The quality gets better as the author matures. Too bad about the erotic asphyxiation/weird mob hit that killed him, he could have grown into a decent author in his own right.

If that is something you are willing to indulge in (and fan fiction isn't to everyone's tastes) read it until you hit the torture bit. If you find that engaging and darkly humorous, you will like it. If you don't, you won't. Depending on your reading speed, worst case you are out 30 minutes.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

discoukulele posted:

Well I'm sold. I've only seen a couple of episodes of Farscape and I liked what I saw. I might watch DS9 and Farscape concurrently since (from what I gather) they're not as plot-intensive as B5.

There are existing blind watch threads here for both, I believe.

And if you get done with Farscape and decide "that wasn't weird enough," you should totally give Lexx a try. I have not seen anyone blind watch that yet.

Vitruvian Manic
Dec 5, 2021

by Fluffdaddy
Lexx is a datura high from what I've seen.

Where is it streaming?

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Winifred Madgers posted:

And if you get done with Farscape and decide "that wasn't weird enough," you should totally give Lexx a try. I have not seen anyone blind watch that yet.

I am very aware of Lexx and have seen bits but have never actually sat down to watch it. I haven't seen Farscape yet though so I don't feel like I'm at the bottom of the barrel enough to Lexx...

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie
I've only seen the pilot episode of Lexx and I remember it being very :stare: but I definitely want to check it out at some point

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Winifred Madgers posted:

There are existing blind watch threads here for both, I believe.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3935239

I hope someone else joins me so I don't feel so bad not posting regularly.

1000 Brown M and Ms
Oct 22, 2008

F:\DL>quickfli 4-clowns.fli

Vitruvian Manic posted:

Lexx is a datura high from what I've seen.

Where is it streaming?

Amazon Prime, at least last year when I had it.

I genuinely love Lexx, it's wonderfully bizarre and has some surprisingly compelling themes and storylines, considering it's also a horny fever dream. I will say I first watched it as a teenager in a very late night timeslot, which may influence my opinion a bit.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

1000 Brown M and Ms posted:

Amazon Prime, at least last year when I had it.

I genuinely love Lexx, it's wonderfully bizarre and has some surprisingly compelling themes and storylines, considering it's also a horny fever dream. I will say I first watched it as a teenager in a very late night timeslot, which may influence my opinion a bit.

About half of Lexx is great. The other half is eeyahhhh. The Time Prophet is always hilarious, though.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Grand Fromage posted:

I am very aware of Lexx and have seen bits but have never actually sat down to watch it. I haven't seen Farscape yet though so I don't feel like I'm at the bottom of the barrel enough to Lexx...

They aired together in first run, that's how I came across Lexx, from the promo ads. I saw a few of the ads and figured it was just a dumb window dressing excuse for horny, but then the musical episode intrigued me enough to try watching it, and everything just clicked for me.

It's a great place to give it a try imo, it gives kind of a quick backstory rundown of Kai and the Brunnen G and throws you into the deep end of what's going on in season 2 (it's near the end of the season), but although it has some serialization it's not really harmed by being spoiled on what's going on, and for me it was a real eye-opener that this was actually, in part, a legit science fiction show with legit storytelling.

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie
Legend of the Rangers
  • I mean, it looks sleek compared to the other B5 movies so far
  • hell yeah G'Kar!
  • this show is such a bizarre tonal shift compared to B5. It has some major “well excuse me, Princess” vibes, which is really weird since the Rangers tend to have this whole stoicism thing going on
  • oh my god, this combat system is amazingly stupid. I love it.
  • An underground city was found on Beta Durani 7 with a pyramid that apparently opens up a parallel dimension. It kinda reminds me of Thirdspace so I'm wondering if it's the same species or what
  • but for real who thought this whole “flailing around and screaming” combat system was a good idea?

  • so the evil alien species is The Hand, and they're all powerful and scary, but they're also pretty dumb
  • we get the tiniest little teaser about Lyta no longer being with G'Kar
  • anyways, this one was really lame and forgettable, but I could see it getting better if they'd had time to flesh things out and grow the characters over a season or so. It wouldn't have been nearly as good as B5, but it's an interesting little window into what could have been.

discoukulele fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Feb 12, 2022

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE
Call to Arms is so much better than Legend of the Rangers, I think you will enjoy it.

I'm honestly beyond excited to see you reaching Sleeping in Light.

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie
Sweet, I'm really looking forward to seeing what's ahead! I'm planning to watch Call to Arms later this afternoon and then wrap up with Lost Tales and Sleeping in Light tomorrow.

Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm

discoukulele posted:

Legend of the Rangers
  • I mean, it looks sleek compared to the other B5 movies so far

  • An underground city was found on Beta Durani 7 with a pyramid that apparently opens up a parallel dimension. It kinda reminds me of Thirdspace so I'm wondering if it's the same species or what


I believe they were intended to be servants of the Thirdspace guys, though I'm not sure if they were supposed to be corrupted Vorlons or something else

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie
Call to Arms
  • Alright, so it's the 5 year anniversary of the ISA
  • Oh poo poo, recent Telepath crisis! Y'all, like I've said, the Telepath / Psi Corps stuff is my favorite subplot of the show, so I need some resolution for the nuclear Lyta + Garibaldi alliance plot before we're done.
  • Oh hey, silver daddy Sheridan
  • Sheridan's working on reverse-engineering Vorlon and Minbari tech and they're doing it under the table, which is surely going to turn out well for them
  • Galen is spying on Sherida
  • They're making Destroyers out of the Vorlon/Minbari tech, which is a super great thing to hide from your allies
  • Putting the President on an untested ship seems like yet another great decision
  • Sherdian gets a “message from Delenn” that actually seems to be some kind of psi attack, and there's a couple of shots of Shadow ships
  • Garibaldi, noted Daffy Duck stan, makes a dig at 20th century television
  • So this woman shows up at security with a ton of weapons – have we seen her before? Didn't she show up a long time ago as an assassin? Last of her people, that whole thing?
  • Sheridan has a vision of a burning planet. Galen appears and tells him that someone tested something here.
  • REMEMBER WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN >:O
  • It's Daltron 7
  • Assassin woman gets kicked down a shaft, has the same vision as Sheridan, says “I can't be back”, sees a Drakh posing as Sheridan. She Dureena, She's a part of the Thieves Guild.
  • Chekhov's last resort full-power weapon
  • oh gently caress yes, Technomage throwback! I really wish that we would've gotten more of them, so I'm super stoked to see them show up.
  • So again, reminder that the Drakh were subordinates of the Shadows. I'm kinda getting the impression from their meddling with Londo that they're vying to become the new Shadows as humans evolve toward becoming the next Vorlons. The Drakh are planning to attack Earth
  • oh gently caress it's Candyman!
  • ohhh forgot about the Death Cloud. Dureena's planet, Zander Prime, was destroyed by one.
  • lmao lets just burn our way out of this dock
  • Drazhi males have a reproductive pouch in their armpits that they use for smuggling things
  • Drake was working with the Drakh
  • huge rear end Drakh fleet shows up near Earth
  • Dureena uses her roguish perception ability to deduce the Planet Killer's weak point
  • Candyman, out of options, rams the Planet Killer and goes out like a boss

  • oh poo poo, even though the Planet Killer was destroyed, the Drakh released a Shadow-engineered plague into Earth's atmosphere. They have a 5-year window to solve the problem or everyone on Earth will die. The Excalibur is going to try to find a cure from some of the other mysterious ancient races.
  • And so I believe that this is the setup for Crusade, then? I definitely want to check it out at some point, for sure.

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie
The Lost Tales – Over Here
  • Oh wow! This CGI in this is gorgeous.
  • oh drat, so judging by the intro, could we have had a Kosh tale, then?
  • So now we're 9 years after Season 5
  • This looks so good!
  • Hell yeah, space exorcism, let's go
  • “nah, he's faking it, he's not showing any special powers” - immediately wraps B5 in hellfire
  • so basically the priest can exorcise this guy or let him remain and restore faith in the church
  • Apparently demons can't leave Earth so they have to posses people


The Lost Tales – Over There
  • Everyone's getting ready for the 10-year anniversary of the ISA. Londo is definitely not coming.
  • G'Kar is exploring beyond the rim
  • Now they have access to quantumspace because of Vorlon tech, it's twice as fast as hyperspace and it's trippy
  • Galen shows up and gives Sheridan another vision like in Call to Arms
  • oh nice! It's our first time to actually see exterior shots of Earth.
  • Earth is going to get destroyed
  • Sheridan after the vision is like

  • Prince Vintari is going to cause the destruction, so Sheridan has to kill him to prevent it
  • Franklin is with G'Kar
  • lmao Galen literally giving Sheridan the “would you kill baby Hitler?” dilemma
  • and so in the end, maybe all Vintari needed was a little kindness
  • David's 9 at this point (of course).
  • Sheridan offers to let Vintari stay with him on Minbari so he can try to prevent catastrophe by forging a relationship with him

discoukulele fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Feb 13, 2022

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

discoukulele posted:

The Lost Tales – Over There
  • G'Kar is exploring beyond the rim
  • Franklin is with G'Kar


A note on this:

"gone beyond the Rim" is how JMS refers to it when a major B5 cast member dies. We've heard it far too many times since, sadly, but when Lost Tales was made in 2007 only Richard Biggs and Andreas Katsulas had passed away. He put the reference to their characters into the show as a tribute.

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie

Jedit posted:

A note on this:

"gone beyond the Rim" is how JMS refers to it when a major B5 cast member dies. We've heard it far too many times since, sadly, but when Lost Tales was made in 2007 only Richard Biggs and Andreas Katsulas had passed away. He put the reference to their characters into the show as a tribute.

oh wow :(

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie
alright, I'm getting settled in for the finale. :woop:

Iymarra
Oct 4, 2010




Survived AGDQ 2018 Awful Games block!
Grimey Drawer

discoukulele posted:

alright, I'm getting settled in for the finale. :woop:

And so, it begins.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Iymarra posted:

And so, it begins.

We've always been here.

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie
s05e22 – Sleeping In Light
  • It's been 20 years since the end of the Shadow War, which means Sheridan's time is up
  • Sheridan's got a Ranger pin
  • Aaaaaaaa!!!! gently caress yes, General Ivanova!!!!
  • Vir became Emperor and now he has the full peacock
  • Garibaldi has a child, Mary, and Stephen remains a close friend
  • Vir's monologue about Londo is probably the best scene he's ever had as a character
  • Implication that Lennier and G'Kar have passed, as well
  • David's in Ranger training, apparently having survived the Keeper in the urn
  • Sheridan only recently left the Presidency and Delenn took over.
  • gently caress yeah, Ivanova for head Ranger!!
  • Sheridan returns to B5, only to learn that it's being decommissioned for redundancy
  • thought I was done ugly crying and then Zack showed up
  • ugh, this shot of Delenn waking up alone
  • And for once, Sheridan got the quiet sendoff he always wanted
  • Ivanova took the Ranger position
  • and every morning, Delenn watches the sign rise


The finale was absolutely perfect in every way. There was more that I wanted to see plot-wise (how did Lyta's arc end up?), but ending on an intimate note like this is exactly where it needed to go – these characters and their relationships were always what the show was ultimately about. I was extremely happy for Ivanova to make an appearance and for her to get a satisfying conclusion. I'm sure I'll have more thoughts when I've had some time to process it a bit more, but for now I can't say enough good things about it.

I'm really glad that I finally got around to watching this, and I might even go as far as to say that it's my favorite sci-fi show now. It hits all of the notes that I enjoy. I'm definitely planning to re-watch it at some point, and I still want to check out Crusade sometime. I'm also curious about the books, because there are a few plot points that I'd like some resolution to if there is any.


I'm starting a rewatch of The Deconstruction of Falling Stars to cap everything off. I might post some thoughts if I notice anything new, but I will say that immediately cutting back to Sheridan and Delenn as newlyweds is pretty perfect after the finale.

discoukulele fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Feb 13, 2022

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie
Question, though - when we saw Londo and G'Kar's deaths in the time jump episode awhile back, Londo said that Centauri Prime had been destroyed because of Sheridan's 12-year campaign. Is the implication that Sheridan launched an attack because of the attempt on his son (the Keeper gift)? In this episode, someone mentions "the incident with his son".

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Someone finally made it! :toot:

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Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

discoukulele posted:

Question, though - when we saw Londo and G'Kar's deaths in the time jump episode awhile back, Londo said that Centauri Prime had been destroyed because of Sheridan's 12-year campaign. Is the implication that Sheridan launched an attack because of the attempt on his son (the Keeper gift)? In this episode, someone mentions "the incident with his son".

The whole Keeper thing was to be given to David on his 18th birthday, so, for all we know, the keeeper is on David during the finale while he’s at ranger school. The long slow destruction of centauri prime was several years earlier.

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