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Mafic Rhyolite posted:This is a really good summary of what makes me feel weird about people who get mad about shinji not getting in the robot. It's a weird horrible complete lack of empathy for how a person who's been abandoned by everyone who was supposed to care about him and told that he needs to get in a literal monster to fight giant aliens or else they're going to force hospitalised girl to go get killed trying to do it instead. It's interesting contrast that with how shows handled robot piloting in the 70s. In many of those it's mostly treated as a fun thing despite the danger, see Mazinger Z and Combattler V for obvious examples. But just as often you have shows where it is portrayed as terrible and damaging. The pilots in Raideen and Voltes V are miserable. Tetsuya Tsurugi has PTSD. The pilots in Zambot 3 loving die! The big difference is that in these shows, the choice (and the pilots are given a choice) to pilot is portrayed as a noble sacrifice. These brave children are heroically doing their duty to their nation/the human race/the planet/whatever. Granted, many of these shows are ultimately critical of that view (to a greater or lesser degree) but that's still the base assumption. Shinji is told to get into the robot or else. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Feb 19, 2022 |
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Feb 19, 2022 21:59
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Schwarzwald posted:Shinji is told to get into the robot or else.
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Feb 19, 2022 22:12
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Gendo is bad, yes. But the real villain mastermind is Shinji’s mom I’m pretty sure.
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Feb 19, 2022 22:21
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on reflection this is why mecha is superior to big robot shows. chirico was a ptsd riddled death dealer both inside and outside of the many robots he has blow up around him. makes everything much simpler
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Feb 19, 2022 22:32
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PringleCreamEgg posted:Gendo is bad, yes. But the real villain mastermind is Shinji’s mom I’m pretty sure. Nah. Yui's a perfectly nice person. She's just a mad scientist who makes a lot of questionable judgement calls, especially about how well Gendo would take her absence. Seriously, Yui had the most positive impression of Gendo anyone has ever had.
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Feb 19, 2022 22:41
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I actually hadn't seen OG Gundam until a couple of months ago and the biggest thing that stood out to me was how obviously Evangelion is a response to it. Like I took an immediate and intense dislike to Bright and then an episode later I realized "oh wait he's literally just Misato but without the self-awareness."chiasaur11 posted:Nah. Yui's a perfectly nice person. She's just a mad scientist who makes a lot of questionable judgement calls, especially about how well Gendo would take her absence. Yui is a person with good intentions but also the daughter of an Illuminati member and also in constant fear for her life because her agenda puts her at odds with people who would murder her without blinking. Her biggest character flaw is an unwillingness to communicate directly, which makes her partly responsible for many of the bad things that happen in Evangelion (and especially to Shinji personally), in that if she'd just sat down and talked to her husband like an adult nearly all of this poo poo could probably have been avoided. But her background also provides a pretty clear implicit reason why she's so paranoid and keeps everything so close to her chest, only really confiding in Fuyutsuki (who is even more slavishly devoted to her than Gendo in his own way and was also her mentor). People talk a lot about how Gendo is just future Shinji but imo he resembles his mother far more, particularly with respect to "means well but has been so thoroughly conditioned not to trust anyone or to communicate his intentions to others that his attempts to help often end in disaster." Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Feb 19, 2022 |
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Feb 19, 2022 23:30
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I actually hadn't seen OG Gundam until a couple of months ago and the biggest thing that stood out to me was how obviously Evangelion is a response to it. Like I took an immediate and intense dislike to Bright and then an episode later I realized "oh wait he's literally just Misato but without the self-awareness." I watched it like fifteen years ago without reflecting much on it. So when I rewatched the movies a couple months ago with some friends, we were like "oh wait. oh no this show was really good and we've been sleeping on it all this time, and half of evangelion's DNA came from it." I remembered the awesome, cheesy blocky robots, and that amuro spends half the show in a violent fugue state, but I forgot how incredible some of the character animation is. 
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Feb 20, 2022 00:46
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OG gundam gets a lot of poo poo because the art style is old fashioned and there’s some famous moments of bad animation, but it’s way to forget that even the TV version has a lot of style and a lot of moments of creative, experimentalist animation going on like the weird montages during the Lalah fights.
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Feb 20, 2022 01:19
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:
She's bad at communication, but she's definitely trusting Gendo. Probably too much. It's just a "Follow my changes and try to keep up" kind of trust because, yes. The Illuminati is watching her every move. She figured that Gendo would figure things out, because she knows he's bright and capable, and that worked fine. She just also figured that Gendo would keep an eye on Shinji and be a good father, which dramatically overestimated Gendo's suitability to the role. It's actually kind of tragic. She had more faith in Gendo than Gendo had in himself, and that set up all the pain to follow. One thing that's interesting about the Mari reveals in Shin is that it provides us more about Yui. We mostly see her in rare flashbacks and the influence she had on the people she left behind, Gendo and Fuyutsuki, who both have their own issues, and who form one of the show's host of sinister conspiracies. They both say nothing but good things about her, but given their roles, it's easy to take things in a skeptical light, especially because Yui's plan isn't the same as Gendo's. Mari is the first character who's clearly one of the protagonists who knew Yui, and she shares the positive impression Gendo and Fuyutsuki have of her, even mentioning that a save-the-world plan is also a legacy from Yui. It helps reinforce the "Well intentioned, kind, and also a total mad scientist" side of Yui. (After all, Mari isn't exactly what you call 'normal', and someone with her as a best friend is probably rather...odd.) As for Gundam, it's worth watching the whole show, not just the movies. It has a lot more character growth for the cast, including Bright getting to be less of a prick. (Also, unlike Misato, he has the excuse of being 19 and completely unprepared for any of his responsibilities. Kid's barely out of officer training and then has the fate of the world on his shoulders. Hardly a surprise he's out of his depth.)
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Feb 20, 2022 01:26
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The Amuro/Lalah/Char/Sayla psychedelic fight is legit an apex of the form. It's loving astonishing something that hews so closely to the cheesy 70s robot aesthetic could pull off a moment so striking.
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Feb 20, 2022 01:59
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Thank you all for Gundam discussion, it has been illuminating and I will check it out because 19 years on my knowledge of the franchise still begins and ends with Cardboard Box Guy
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Feb 20, 2022 05:11
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shame on an IGA posted:Thank you all for Gundam discussion, it has been illuminating and I will check it out because 19 years on my knowledge of the franchise still begins and ends with Cardboard Box Guy For Gundam, I recommend: 0079, to see Shinji's prototype having his life tossed into chaos by getting in the robot 0080: War in the Pocket, for a kid getting traumatized without ever getting in the robot Turn A, for a protagonist who somehow manages to remain emotionally balanced despite getting in the robot And Iron Blooded Orphans, where the protagonist was messed up as they come well before getting in the robot. There's also G, but that's more super robot, where some combination of love, straightforward communication, and martial arts can solve most problems.
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Feb 20, 2022 06:39
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If you'd like to have every Gundam show ever produced recommended to you as a good one to start with come on over to the Gundam thread.
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Feb 20, 2022 06:46
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0079 is uneven but there are some standout episodes and I really like the whole ending sequence.
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Feb 20, 2022 11:56
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Unfortunately the bulk of Evangelion readings are memetic in nature and derived from over 20 years of internet ivory tower narratives that ignore both the moment-to-moment of the series itself and the various contexts for it, built on a house of cards made of the same half-dozen loosely translated statements and 95% incorrect assumption and projection. If EoE were released today the internet reaction would be that Shinji ends up with Asuka and Rei is a cuckold, despite every event, characterisation, dialogue and tone running counter to anything of the sort. I love Eva, but I can't stand talking to people about it.
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Feb 20, 2022 15:39
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Szmitten posted:If EoE were released today the internet reaction would be that Shinji ends up with Asuka and Rei is a cuckold Irony Be My Shield posted:0079 is uneven but there are some standout episodes and I really like the whole ending sequence.
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Feb 21, 2022 00:40
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Yeah the internet has moved on from Chuck, we are in the Simp meta
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Feb 21, 2022 00:56
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FilthyImp posted:No it wouldn't you weird-rear end dweeb. People are being equally dumb about Shin but aight.
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Feb 21, 2022 01:37
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I've never seen that anywhere, not even the low effort shitposter content creators have said it as a joke. edit because the original probably sounded more aggressive than intended: The characters in the rebuilds have all resolved their relationships with each other by the end without any lingering ressentments. Anyone unironically saying anyone got cucked is probably the kind of terminally online person chomping at the bit to do that regardless of whether it is true or not, so you should probably not take them as representatives of the general population. GimmickMan fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Feb 21, 2022 |
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Feb 21, 2022 02:22
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GimmickMan posted:Anyone unironically saying anyone got cucked is probably the kind of terminally online person chomping at the bit to do that regardless of whether it is true or not, so you should probably not take them as representatives of the general population. Paper Lion posted:shinji [...] never grows out of his initial cucked mindset until movie 4. the discourse is literally in this thread, like one page ago lol
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Feb 21, 2022 05:25
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No one is cucked in Evangelion except Misato, when Kaji grave-cucked her by dying. And then Misato when she died thus grave-cucking herself again. So Misato is either double grave-cucked or her dying means she canceled out Kaji’s grave cucking. Or maybe Asuka and Shinji were tang-cucked when they rejected instrumentality. Anyway I’ve now made the worst post in this thread, congratulations.
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Feb 21, 2022 06:39
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Szmitten posted:People are being equally dumb about Shin but aight.  "
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Feb 21, 2022 06:43
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FilthyImp posted:No, I'm pretty sure people aren't blatantly misreading poo poo in Shin that way, unless I missed 10 pages of "Mari groomed Shunji! To clarify, I'm talking generally, not this thread specifically. My main point was that memes like "EoE is revenge against the fans" and "Mari is Anno's wife" are ideas that are demonstrably false but are so deeply ingrained into the fandom's collective consciousness that it's hard to unpick them, and they subsequently warp people's ability to engage with the actual works for what they are, which is a shame.
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Feb 21, 2022 15:32
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So what you are saying is you read some of the worst takes the stupidest people had, and then you thought it mattered. Well then you can relax, because it doesn't. It doesn't matter at all. Some people had stupid opinions on the internet, and after you read them you can just go "Huh." and move on.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:02
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Lol I didn’t realize that weirdo used cuck. Maybe he was trolling
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Feb 21, 2022 20:08
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I watched this last week and it was honestly awful and anyone who relates to Shinji is mentally ill and should seek serious psychiatric help immediately
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Feb 21, 2022 21:07
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I mean yes? Shinji absolutely needed therapy
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Feb 21, 2022 21:14
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Obama2 posted:I watched this last week and it was honestly awful and anyone who relates to Shinji is mentally ill and should seek serious psychiatric help immediately Nice to see FYAD branching out from the vtuber and mod feedback threads in adtrw.
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Feb 21, 2022 21:15
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Obama2 posted:I watched this last week and it was honestly awful and anyone who relates to Shinji is mentally ill and should seek serious psychiatric help immediately Agreed
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Feb 21, 2022 21:41
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Midjack posted:Nice to see FYAD branching out from the vtuber and mod feedback threads in adtrw. See the poster above who didn't even try to misspell Shiji for lols.
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Feb 21, 2022 21:44
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Midjack posted:Nice to see FYAD branching out from the vtuber and mod feedback threads in adtrw. FilthyImp posted:The average FYAD loves anime but constantly has to be like "no WAY man that's LOSER NERD poo poo" like the Republicans passing Anti-Queer legislation. Obama2 isn't even a FYAD regular, they rejected him. He's just some fail rear end racist troll, likely a re-reg. Also I wish people would stop talking about FYAD posters like a nefarious monolith. Yeah a bunch of them trolled the v-tuber thread, but they're not like some nazi cult. Everyone has their own opinions and places they hang out and chat, and at the end of the day we are all just people posting to have fun. When it comes to people trolling, you have to learn to not feed trolls, and just report them instead.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:06
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Get on the loving chair Shinji
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Feb 21, 2022 22:21
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Julias posted:Obama2 isn't even a FYAD regular, they rejected him. He's just some fail rear end racist troll, likely a re-reg. oh okay
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Feb 21, 2022 22:27
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Cephas posted:the discourse is literally in this thread, like one page ago lol but... their post is agreeing with mine? paper lion is saying that post-rebuild shinji is no longer mentally cucked (which, lol, but moving on). i am saying people have no reason to be calling the characters as of rebuild 4 cucked. we are not disagreeing there, (though we are disagreeing on plenty of other things) so i don't think i'm the one not reading the thread here. 
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Feb 22, 2022 00:46
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That's a fair point. edit: i really do not want to use that word even in a stupid eva joke Cephas fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Feb 22, 2022 |
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Feb 22, 2022 02:24
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Julias posted:Obama2 isn't even a FYAD regular, they rejected him. He's just some fail rear end racist troll, likely a re-reg. Fyad posters are cool 🤝
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Feb 22, 2022 03:07
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i just watched the first episode of star trek: deep space nine again and i though that the way the wormhole prophets interacted with sisko really reminded me of parts evangelion for some reason i think it was both having a foreign entity trying to communicate with a character using that characters own memories and relationships, and the guided development of the main character to accept aspects of themself that have been limiting them has anyone else observed this? ds9 predated evangelion by quite a few years and i have no idea whether anno was a trekkie
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Feb 22, 2022 04:24
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hekaton posted:i just watched the first episode of star trek: deep space nine again and i though that the way the wormhole prophets interacted with sisko really reminded me of parts evangelion for some reason Ds9 started a couple of years before NGE and was still running during it's airing. There's also at least 1 explicit reference to star trek, with a person's badge having NCC-1701(A) on it, a reference to the USS Enterprise.
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Feb 22, 2022 05:03
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hekaton posted:has anyone else observed this? ds9 predated evangelion by quite a few years and i have no idea whether anno was a trekkie it's a thing in Contact too (published in 1985) and shows up here and there in lots of science fiction. i would also be shocked if Anno hadn't read Childhood's End, which has both "the aliens look like devils because we encountered them in the past and their appearance is synonymous in our genetic memory with evil and danger" and also humanity's children being inducted into a psychic gestalt as our species joins the galactic community at the cost of our individual minds and personalities e: none of which is to downplay him being a trekkie (as Julias mentioned above, that's probably the case as well ) but just, like, dude was and is a huge westaboo and all these things influence each other
Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Feb 22, 2022 |
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Feb 22, 2022 05:21
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NGE has a bunch of Harlen Ellison references, too. Western sci-fi literature was definately one of Anno's interests.
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Feb 22, 2022 12:22
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