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BlankSystemDaemon posted:He's relieved himself from worrying about portability ever since. dude the full context (from your own link!) makes it abundantly clear that he does not hate portability with a fiery passion. it's a question about why systemd isn't portable and he says: the most hated man in linux posted:Many of my previous projects (including PulseAudio and Avahi) have been written to be portable. Being relieved from the chains that the requirement for portability puts on you is quite liberating. While ensuring portability when working on high-level applications is not necessarily a difficult job it becomes increasingly more difficult if the stuff you work on is a system component (which systemd, PulseAudio and Avahi are). the idea that portability is harder and the benefits less compelling the further down the stack you go is not controversial to normal people i struggle to sympathize with the worldview that every system design decision made by the various camps which splintered unix in the 1970s and 1980s is canon, but simultaneously if you pick the wrong canon you're a heretic, but simultaneously if you dare make the lowest levels of one of the splinters nonportable so that at least you can do things in a sensible way in your splinter you're a heretic
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Apr 6, 2022 22:21
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just pretend i quoted the whole post you wouldn't have systemd if the goal was to be portable to all unices. the point of systemd is administrating your linux install, and to do that properly you have to use linux specific apis
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Apr 6, 2022 22:28
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BobHoward posted:the most hated man in linux mods????
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Apr 6, 2022 22:56
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Tankakern posted:just pretend i quoted the whole post but but but how am i supposed to get attention for my niche os if nobody cares about spending their own time making their stuff work with it? no i won't help out with this myself, what do you think i am? a producer?
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Apr 7, 2022 00:45
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i can't imagine actively caring about systemd one way or the other after like, 2013 or so
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Apr 7, 2022 01:42
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I like using it, its timers and services are very good
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Apr 7, 2022 02:01
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Sapozhnik posted:i can't imagine actively caring about systemd one way or the other after like, 2013 or so It's pretty well integrated now too. I had to transition init scripts to systemd at one of my first jobs and that is about the only time I really felt anything other than meh towards it.
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Apr 7, 2022 02:45
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i wrote some upstart scripts for system services when i was using ubuntu 14.04, that was okay conversion to systemd scripts was easy, and writing new systemd service units is so trivial i really do appreciate it over a mess of shell scripts and combinations of other projects (supervisord or some poo poo? idk) like "i want to run homebridge via docker-compose on my home server to support opening my garage door through homekit" code:
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Apr 7, 2022 03:00
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Lysidas posted:i wrote some upstart scripts for system services when i was using ubuntu 14.04, that was okay Systemd services and timers are very good. Systemd-networkd is OK. The rest of it should be thrown out an airlock.
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Apr 7, 2022 06:28
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why the gently caress did they build a dns server into it
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Apr 7, 2022 12:55
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I used to hate systemd but then after writing a bunch of unit files and setting dependencies correctly it turns out to be pretty nice. really it was the translation that sucked. i didnt like upstart that ubuntu was pushing. early systemd was rough and package maintainers were not good with it either so it was all a bit of a mess those bad old day are behind us and now you can spend your spare time idly hating specific features of systemd. its great
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Apr 7, 2022 14:05
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systemd service unit files are really nice
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Apr 7, 2022 20:12
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and god bless the free log management spew to stdout/stderr and let the journal handle things
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Apr 8, 2022 02:49
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I, too, like the init system thing part. I'm less happy with the log handling thing. The rest is a dumpster fire. Having an easy way to put FlexLM daemons into lowest-privilege container-like isolation with only a few switches is pretty neat. They even get ephemeral users assigned to them.
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Apr 8, 2022 12:46
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Journatlctl is a good idea, but a bad program. Its UI is Git-level bad imo. Logging to stdout /stderr is good and easy, and it's nice having everything unified. But boy howdy does the UI suck. Even right down to the annoying-to-type name. I hate that I can't have multiple journals though, I'd like that from a system architecture perspective. Like maybe tmpfs storage for the system services and permanent storage for services we wrote.
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Apr 8, 2022 13:12
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i want to run homebridge via docker-compose on my home server to support opening my garage door through homekit
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Apr 8, 2022 13:16
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good news, friend! systemd makes that easy though if your server is like mine you might also have to recompile the kernel after setting a lot of options for docker to work
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Apr 8, 2022 14:05
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Lysidas posted:
what the gently caress is your server like?
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Apr 8, 2022 14:06
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gentoo
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Apr 8, 2022 14:07
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Use podman instead.
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Apr 8, 2022 14:13
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Lysidas posted:gentoo lol
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Apr 8, 2022 14:25
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use Quadlet ideally but that seems to be one guy's part time loving around project and still isn't even included in Fedora's package repository despite being ~8 months old https://github.com/containers/quadlet
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Apr 8, 2022 14:28
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"what if you could write a high-level unit file type for a container thing that gets translated into a systemd unit by a generator, and that unit set up some sensible defaults to spawn that container without any central container management daemon poo poo or whatever but instead contained within a free-standing runtime that is managed by a systemd cgroup" "no that's stupid why would you want that. why don't you install kubernetes on your laptop and write a kubernetes deployment YAML instead?"
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Apr 8, 2022 14:30
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Antigravitas posted:Use podman instead.  looks like it might also work with docker-compose with no additional tweaking or configuration, will probably try that out and its in ubuntu repos for 20.10 and newer, will also want to switch after getting things on 22.04 lts
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Apr 8, 2022 14:33
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Antigravitas posted:I, too, like the init system thing part. I'm less happy with the log handling thing. The rest is a dumpster fire. Yeah, I alias that poo poo as "jctl"
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Apr 8, 2022 14:57
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nice, that is also a subsequence of "jo crystal", so you should think about that craigslist post every time you check the journal
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Apr 8, 2022 15:28
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Sapozhnik posted:use Quadlet ideally but that seems to be one guy's part time loving around project and still isn't even included in Fedora's package repository despite being ~8 months old This looks good, thanks
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Apr 8, 2022 15:36
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Rooney McNibnug posted:Yeah, I alias that poo poo as "jctl" TENEX did this back before UNIX even existed, and it's where the t in tcsh comes from.
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Apr 8, 2022 18:04
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Doesn't your shell support command completion? now that is a good bit of trivia, ty
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Apr 8, 2022 19:14
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Poopernickel posted:Journatlctl is a good idea, but a bad program. Its UI is Git-level bad imo. https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/systemd-journald-dev-log.socket.8.html#JOURNAL_NAMESPACES Its literally the second second section in the man page. Also you can filter the logs trivially by unit with -u <unit name> or generically by log identifier for arbitrary poo poo with -t <identifier>. Finally you could just use -g or --grep to search everything. -p 3 for errors only, -b 0 for current boot only, --since=yesterday for last day, the list goes on. Also how are you posting on the linux thread and don't know about aliasing and command completion I can't believe somebody is complaining about typing the name out.
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Apr 8, 2022 19:43
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one thing about journalctl that i always thought was odd is that /var/log/journal doesn't exist by default on most distros for some reason, so the default config storage=auto means the journal isnt persistent. I dont get why that is the way it is.
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Apr 8, 2022 19:46
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because the journal storage format is idiotic. love to have a log file format that is rendered unusable if you corrupt any of its filesystem blocks.
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Apr 8, 2022 19:50
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Sapozhnik posted:because the journal storage format is idiotic. love to have a log file format that is rendered unusable if you corrupt any of its filesystem blocks. I'm more concerned why your file system is a piece of poo poo
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Apr 8, 2022 20:12
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Mr. Crow posted:https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/systemd-journald-dev-log.socket.8.html#JOURNAL_NAMESPACES TIL, thanks! Mr. Crow posted:Also how are you posting on the linux thread and don't know about aliasing and command completion I can't believe somebody is complaining about typing the name out. aliases are a workaround for lovely defaults, and tab-completion isn't all that common on the embedded Linux stuff that I have to janitor
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Apr 8, 2022 20:16
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Doesn't your shell support command completion? yes but i am also a spaz
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Apr 8, 2022 20:18
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Mr. Crow posted:I'm more concerned why your file system is a piece of poo poo i'd tell you but i can't read the stinkin logs to find out what went wrong, Jeff!!
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Apr 8, 2022 20:26
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sorry to hear about your neuro-motor issues but please try to avoid using slurs in the future, namaste
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Apr 8, 2022 20:27
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Poopernickel posted:TIL, thanks! literally every single embedded Linux system I have ever worked on since 2005 has had tab completion.
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Apr 8, 2022 20:28
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Lysidas posted:gentoo what on earth
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Apr 8, 2022 20:52
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Rooney McNibnug posted:yes but i am also a spaz i also have the hackiest loving script known to human kind, which is a script that i put together one night because i was frustrated with how freebsd ports has quarterly repos, but no way to point to the most current quarterly repo, so you have to move things along manually if you're using poudriere to build custom packages using the VALID_CATEGORIES variable in make.conf(5) and a git sub-tree for /usr/ports/custom
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Apr 8, 2022 20:59
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