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What's interesting is that early scripts of the film DID have a voice over, albeit a completely different one. And it was basically one of the early narrations that got Scott started on the "Deckard is a replicant" thing- there was some draft where he's narrating "I did my job, did what I was programmed to do" and it's obviously metaphorical but Scott seized on the idea that he might literally be an android and that's where that happened. (And there was a later draft that spelled this out- it ends with Deckard playing the piano and then his hand seizes up. As for Scott needing to be better with producers, I would argue he often is. Alien was going to be a lower budget movie than it ended up being, but he did some meticulous mini-storyboard ("Ridleygrams" they were called) of the major scenes in the film and showed how he was going to film it all, and based on that the studio gave them more money. Sometimes the producer or executive producer actually runs interference between the director (who's supposed to concentrate on what's in front of the camera) and the studio. When David Lynch made The Elephant Man for Mel Brooks, the studio sent some notes on the work print suggesting cuts, and Brooks wrote back "We are involved in a business venture. We screened the film for you, to bring you up to date as to the status of that venture. Do not misconstrue this as our soliciting the input of raging primitives."
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Apr 11, 2022 19:50
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Maxwell Lord posted:As for Scott needing to be better with producers, I would argue he often is. Alien was going to be a lower budget movie than it ended up being, but he did some meticulous mini-storyboard ("Ridleygrams" they were called) of the major scenes in the film and showed how he was going to film it all, and based on that the studio gave them more money. Alien is probably the one movie of his where the first version basically is the director's cut. The only reason the Quadrilogy version is called the director's cut is for marketing reasons.
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Apr 11, 2022 20:09
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Mel Brooks gave an interview recently where he said that the secret to dealing with producers was to tell them that you're going to do the thing they tell you to do and then just don't do it because movie producers are braindead and are only telling you to do things because it makes them feel like they're having an impact and they forget what they asked for 30 seconds after doing it
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Apr 11, 2022 20:17
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Alaois posted:Mel Brooks gave an interview recently where he said that the secret to dealing with producers was to tell them that you're going to do the thing they tell you to do and then just don't do it because movie producers are braindead and are only telling you to do things because it makes them feel like they're having an impact and they forget what they asked for 30 seconds after doing it yeah I've read several stories in which the same movie was submitted with none of the suggested changes and the producers didn't notice
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Apr 11, 2022 20:21
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hawowanlawow posted:yeah I've read several stories in which the same movie was submitted with none of the suggested changes and the producers didn't notice Famously, Hitchcock submitted the same script for Psycho until it got past the sensors.
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Apr 11, 2022 20:31
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Iron Crowned posted:Famously, Hitchcock submitted the same script for Psycho until it got past the sensors. How do these movie script sensors work? Is it some sort of machine learning AI?
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Apr 11, 2022 20:36
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hawowanlawow posted:yeah I've read several stories in which the same movie was submitted with none of the suggested changes and the producers didn't notice This is such a well-established facet of the broken brains behind game publishers that there's a famous anecdote in gaming about a character designer being asked by some out of touch exec to make a female character arbitrarily 'sexier', and they were weirded out so they did literally nothing and presented the same image to the exec, who was satisfied and thought the character was sexier. edit: Aw man, I'm actually bummed I can't find it now, there was a thread here which featured a few fun cases of developers rolling their eyes at publisher dick-waving. Another of the stories featured a weapon which didn't sound badass enough when it fired or something like that, so the audio engineer just made the volume a little louder and the person who made the call was immediately satisfied because they assumed the process required to do so was really intricate. CJacobs has a new favorite as of 20:46 on Apr 11, 2022 |
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Apr 11, 2022 20:39
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Desert Bus posted:How do these movie script sensors work? Is it some sort of machine learning AI? Yeah, unfortunately this was back in the 60's, so the AI was about as smart as your average film censor.
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Apr 11, 2022 20:40
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Gong Show and Saturday Night Live came up with fun methods of getting stuff past the By the end of Gong Show's run nearly every show had a dummy sketch planted because they pretty much kept their ratings by being a rambunctious program, and the one single dummy which made it through on accident almost got the show canceled. Picture if you will, two young ladies sitting cross-legged eating popsicles seductively while a live studio audience cheers them on to victory. They actually completed their act although I don't know if the popsicles themselves had time to finish. On the Gong Show that actually wouldn't have been all that out of the ordinary because double-entendre acts were common, which is probably why it got cleared. The tragedy of this fun escapade, of course, was that the girls were in their teens. And, y'know, not adults. And didn't tell anyone*. So the show and subsequently Chuck Barris got in perhaps a little bit more trouble for that than for getting something planned past the censors. *The part where no one knew their ages is only alleged as far as I'm aware, it honestly could just be that nobody cared they were 17. But I think the guy in the audience pulling out his best McConaughey ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT while they were on stage would be MORE excited to hear this, not less, sadly. CJacobs has a new favorite as of 21:28 on Apr 11, 2022 |
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Apr 11, 2022 21:06
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I'd hesitate to call Ridely Scott movies 'great' because there's quite a few that were just okay and it didn't seem like it got butchered by producers.quote:1977 The Duellists Maybe he did get done dirty a lot but quite a few of those movies seem aggressively mediocre. It's more like he just loves giving Russel Crowe acting jobs. Otherwise the cachet he got from Alien, Blade Runner and later Gladiator pushed him solidly into the top tier. pentyne has a new favorite as of 21:09 on Apr 11, 2022 |
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Apr 11, 2022 21:06
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pentyne posted:I'd hesitate to call Ridely Scott movies 'great' because there's quite a few that were just okay and it didn't seem like it got butchered by producers. Reading Ridley Scott's filmography is such a trip. It swings between middling forgettable crap and "literally re-defined the genre". it's wild.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:11
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Oh man I didn't know he did black hawk down woof
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Apr 11, 2022 21:14
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Reading Ridley Scott's filmography is such a trip. It swings between middling forgettable crap and "literally re-defined the genre". it's wild. I'll say this, for anyone and everyone who's ever made their money from working in media production like that, Micheal Caine had the best line about the quality of the final product. quote:I have never seen it (Jaws 4) but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built and it is terrific. Can't fault Scott for making some schlock to get paid $$$ and time from time use his influence to do his passion/dream projects and fight the studio over literally everything he wants. Micheal Bay I think can be agreed is a trash director who's movies aged immediately and also the awareness he was gross as gently caress to all the hot young actresses he would hire to dress in super revealing casual outfits. I don't there's a single Micheal Bay movie post 90s that wasn't either just repeating the same poo poo he started with or a shameless franchise cash in with no effort or care. Armageddon even aged like milk, the idea a bunch of blue collar roughnecks could outsmart the entirety of NASA. Ben Affleck who was called out for being dumb as poo poo with a lot of his ideas for Daredevil had a story where he called Bay during shooting as the whole thing making no sense and was yelled at to shut his mouth.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:21
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Doing my due dilligence on that Gong Show thing, bad news/good news! I found Chuck Barris' personal account of the incident online and now we can judge him because per this really creepy descriptor from his autobiography, he knew their ages! I spoilered the creepy part to save your sanity.quote:I ignored what Buddy said. I did worse than that. I put the Popsicle In this biography (it's Confessions of a Dangerous Mind) he also talks about secretly being a CIA agent, something the real life CIA then had to investigate and publicly deny was true despite it obviously being a joke to spice up a boring book. Honestly, they should have probably investigated the rest of the text! CJacobs has a new favorite as of 21:44 on Apr 11, 2022 |
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Apr 11, 2022 21:29
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pentyne posted:I'll say this, for anyone and everyone who's ever made their money from working in media production like that, Micheal Caine had the best line about the quality of the final product. Oh I don't think he's making schlock for the cash, I think occasionally he just completely misses the mark. Prometheus/Alien Covenant and Exodus are his exact kind of movie, and had a lot of effort and creativity put into them, they were just bad. And then there's A Good Year, which is so bizarrely outside his oeuvre, and from what I can tell was just because he thought it would be fun to try and make a rom-com.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:32
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Apr 11, 2022 21:36
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Wait, so Ridley Scott is responsible for Q-Anon? White Squall is where their stupid catchphrase comes from.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:42
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pentyne posted:I'd hesitate to call Ridely Scott movies 'great' because there's quite a few that were just okay and it didn't seem like it got butchered by producers. 
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Apr 11, 2022 22:02
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Alaois posted:Mel Brooks gave an interview recently where he said that the secret to dealing with producers was to tell them that you're going to do the thing they tell you to do and then just don't do it because movie producers are braindead and are only telling you to do things because it makes them feel like they're having an impact and they forget what they asked for 30 seconds after doing it Yeah but Mel Brooks has more clout than say, fresh from making music videos David Fincher, who got completely steamrolled for Alien 3. It depends. The problem is a lot of producers think they know what sells and they ignore what makes a good piece.
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Apr 11, 2022 23:22
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hawowanlawow posted:Scott's movies seem to get cut to poo poo and then get bad reviews and then he gets to do what he wanted and the reviews are good, same deal with kingdom of heaven two is not the same as all of his movies. most of his movies are bad, he's been coasting on the clout from the 80s for a long long time now. (gladiator wasn't very good either but i wouldnt call it bad i guess)
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Apr 11, 2022 23:46
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Alaois posted:Mel Brooks gave an interview recently where he said that the secret to dealing with producers was to tell them that you're going to do the thing they tell you to do and then just don't do it because movie producers are braindead and are only telling you to do things because it makes them feel like they're having an impact and they forget what they asked for 30 seconds after doing it The prolific session bassist Lee Sklar has a switch on his bass that connects to nothing, that he calls his producer switch. If the producer is unhappy about his tone, he very deliberately flicks the switch and moves his hand position slightly, which seemed to make most music producers happy.
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Apr 11, 2022 23:57
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I've worked in retail or retail-adjacent positions all my working life and 'I'll get right on that when I have time' is a great way to make stupid busywork disappear from existence. Heartily recommend.
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Apr 12, 2022 00:05
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pentyne posted:I'd hesitate to call Ridely Scott movies 'great' because there's quite a few that were just okay and it didn't seem like it got butchered by producers. 1. Matchstick Men is great 2. Any director that's made three or four all-time classics I think we can reasonably consider "great," even if there's a lot of chaff in with the wheat. Regarding Ridley Scott's relationship with film execs, I would expect that he's pretty well-liked. He's efficient and probably brings things in on/under budget. The Kevin Spacey stuff came out two months before All the Money in the World was to be released, and Scott managed to reshoot the entire role in like a week with Christopher Plummer.
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Apr 12, 2022 00:46
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Gladiator is a movie that was a very very big deal at its time but looking back on it I don’t know why
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Apr 12, 2022 00:49
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the helmet in gladiator looks dumb as hell
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Apr 12, 2022 00:52
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Alaois posted:Mel Brooks gave an interview recently where he said that the secret to dealing with producers was to tell them that you're going to do the thing they tell you to do and then just don't do it because movie producers are braindead and are only telling you to do things because it makes them feel like they're having an impact and they forget what they asked for 30 seconds after doing it So they’re like all bosses then
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Apr 12, 2022 00:54
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Gladiator was fun and still has a couple iconic scenes. Don’t really need much else from it.
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Apr 12, 2022 00:55
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Oh I don’t dislike gladiator, it’s fine. But man it was a big deal for a bit
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Apr 12, 2022 00:55
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My first thought was that Gladiator was a big deal in part because of its Super Bowl ad, but I looked it up to refresh my memory and, well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICf1V6UOsmk Bawitdaba was everywhere back in those days
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Apr 12, 2022 01:00
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Paper Tiger posted:My first thought was that Gladiator was a big deal in part because of its Super Bowl ad, but I looked it up to refresh my memory and, well: Speaking of aged poorly Kid Rock speed ran his dirtbag country/rock persona into becoming an alt-right shithead.
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Apr 12, 2022 01:09
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CJacobs posted:Gong Show and Saturday Night Live came up with fun methods of getting stuff past the Semi-famously, this was also the way that Team America handled the censors. The 'dummy sketch' was the sex scene; they made the first cut of the sex scene as bad as they could, and every time it got rejected, they'd only cut from the sex scene.
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Apr 12, 2022 01:22
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Ridley Scott produced most of his own movies to get around studio interference and he pretty much hasn't made anything as good as the bad version of Blade Runner in the 40 years since it came out. Harrison Ford isn't much of an actor either so the director's cut is basically better because he barely has any lines and the ambiance and all the other characters carry the movie.
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Apr 12, 2022 01:28
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Ridley Scott, in my opinion, is lots more about mood and visuals and atmosphere than a great script or an actors performance. His movies are rarely visually boring and just making Alien and Blade Runner more than qualify him as a great director. However, be sure to separate the man from his work because it’s an open secret in Hollywood that Scott has a reputation for being British
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Apr 12, 2022 01:35
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Paper Tiger posted:My first thought was that Gladiator was a big deal in part because of its Super Bowl ad, but I looked it up to refresh my memory and, well: Aged like fine wine in that this cannot be real, I'm laughing my rear end off at bawitdaba blasting over the judgment of stoic Roman Joaquin Phoenix, this had to be on the front page of this website in the year 2000 and that's where it came from
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Apr 12, 2022 01:36
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Cleretic posted:Semi-famously, this was also the way that Team America handled the censors. The 'dummy sketch' was the sex scene; they made the first cut of the sex scene as bad as they could, and every time it got rejected, they'd only cut from the sex scene. This reminds me of Matt Damon and Ben Affleck shopping Good Will Hunting around and they put a really out of place blowjob scene in the middle to see which producers actually read the script.
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Apr 12, 2022 01:36
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CelticPredator posted:Yeah but Mel Brooks has more clout than say, fresh from making music videos David Fincher, who got completely steamrolled for Alien 3. they were trying to get him to recast Gene Wilder in Blazing Saddles. he told them he would do that and then didn't and the producer who told him to do it never said anything.
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Apr 12, 2022 01:40
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CJacobs posted:Aged like fine wine in that this cannot be real, I'm laughing my rear end off at bawitdaba blasting over the judgment of stoic Roman Joaquin Phoenix, this had to be on the front page of this website in the year 2000 and that's where it came from My favorite part of Bawitdaba is that even during the hardest, grindiest parts of the song you still hear "up jump the boogie" echoing in the background Like way to undermine your own tone
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Apr 12, 2022 01:44
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oldpainless posted:has a reputation for being British
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Apr 12, 2022 01:49
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marshmallow creep posted:This reminds me of Matt Damon and Ben Affleck shopping Good Will Hunting around and they put a really out of place blowjob scene in the middle to see which producers actually read the script. Oh, man! This just unlocked a memory that my brain had totally eclipsed because of the unfairness of being a child associated! When I was younger I actually managed to spot a forged map in a school textbook, the way real encyclopedias used to be made plagarism-proof by intentionally containing false information. The idea being that the incorrect information also will be there, as the plagiarist won't know it's incorrect. I remember the textbook was new and this was before the internet really had taken off in learning spaces so my kid theory was that the people who put it together took a PHOTO of a forged map to avoid paying. I pointed it out to my teacher because I was legitimately curious as to why it was wrong, and she said it was right and that I shouldn't question textbooks because they're proofread or something like that. I remember I wanted to come back with something like yeah but do they check the illustrations but I did not want to get in trouble so I went back to my desk and accepted that some island off of Africa or something isn't where every other map says it is. It turned out my teacher didn't know about fictitious entries, which are genuinely real and still used as recently as this decade to spot people who steal copyrights in places like Dubai or countries with otherwise 'closed circuit' internet where such a thing would be easy to get away with because the people looking for plagiarists don't access those domains much. edit: For reference there were other maps in the room. it was a class based around learning the earth and what's on it. so like i totally get now as an adult that the teacher almost certainly was exhausted and overworked and just wanted me to not ask her that question in like 1998 when the entire internet wasn't right next to her at her desk. CJacobs has a new favorite as of 01:56 on Apr 12, 2022 |
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Apr 12, 2022 01:51
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Looking at a map of Africa reminded me of exactly what the mistake was- Zanzibar was labeled wrong, which I knew was a real place because I'd played Metal Gear which features Zanzibar Island and its very real poisonous hamsters
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Apr 12, 2022 01:57
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