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on the one hand it's a nothingburger cause the Yankees were doing what reporters say "most other teams" were doing on the other hand it is a big deal that apparently most teams were doing this (using replay to steal signs and then relay them to runners on 2B), a bunch of national reporters seemed to be aware of it, and it wasn't widely reported as a league wide scandal at all
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Apr 26, 2022 21:13
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The key difference as best as I understand besides success or tenure or when a particular rule was in place is that the Yankees were using video to decode the signs but the players themselves still had read them. The scheme doesn’t actually seem practical to deliver a sign from the replay room to the dugout to the runner on second base and to the batter in the time before a pitch. They were figuring out the system mid game via the replay room and then telling players how to do it from second. The latter part being the standard and legal thing but the former violating the rules of using electronics. And I think we knew all that already? The thing the Astros did which was unique was reading the signs live and communicating with the batter directly. Did I get that right?
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Apr 26, 2022 21:17
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I will never understand baseball signals on the field. Like, 2nd to home is about 130 feet, and even with very good vision it's hard for me to to pick up on all but the most obnoxious signs at that distance. It would be super obvious trying to steal or relay signs, I feel like. Which is why, I guess, it seems so weird that the banging, for example, took so long to notice. Surely someone must be aware of that poo poo, right? Anyway, hooray for PitchCom til it gets hacked too.
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Apr 26, 2022 21:18
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rickiep00h posted:I will never understand baseball signals on the field. Like, 2nd to home is about 130 feet, and even with very good vision it's hard for me to to pick up on all but the most obnoxious signs at that distance. It would be super obvious trying to steal or relay signs, I feel like. Which is why, I guess, it seems so weird that the banging, for example, took so long to notice. Surely someone must be aware of that poo poo, right? Are you saying how the runner at 2b signals to the batter what the pitch is? Cause that's usually something subtle agreed upon before hand like one hand on your right leg is a fastball or touching your helmet. That's likely what the Red Sox were picking up and figured something was going on.
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Apr 26, 2022 21:20
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The Red Sox got their manager suspended for a season over this, right? Oh no MLB please don't level the same punishment upon the Yankees I would hate it, I would never recover.
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Apr 26, 2022 21:21
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rickiep00h posted:I will never understand baseball signals on the field. Like, 2nd to home is about 130 feet, and even with very good vision it's hard for me to to pick up on all but the most obnoxious signs at that distance. It would be super obvious trying to steal or relay signs, I feel like. Which is why, I guess, it seems so weird that the banging, for example, took so long to notice. Surely someone must be aware of that poo poo, right? Well again everyone DID notice the banging. Boone complained about it in the payoffs. But no one wanted to seriously do anything about it. It only became an issue because Friers took it public, the Athletic ran with it, and Jomboy decoded it in a way everyone could watch and understand. Inspector_666 posted:The Red Sox got their manager suspended for a season over this, right? Cora was suspended for his involvement in the Houston system and the allegation that he brought it to Boston. They just very deliberately didn't really investigate Boston further or reveal anything about who far it did or didn't go. I think they just got a fine for the Apple Watch thing. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Apr 26, 2022 |
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Apr 26, 2022 21:21
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Between this, the Darvish stuff, and his percipitous drop off the second the league cracked down hard on illegal sign stealing I'm now 100% convinced Yelich was cheating with the Brewers and robbed Javy of the 2018 MVP award. Braun must be proud.
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Apr 26, 2022 21:24
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Also lmao that the Yankees  'd to the league about the Red Sox illegally stealing signs and then after five minutes of investigation the league was all "uh... you guys are illegally stealing signs too" and the Yanks ended up eating a fine.
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Apr 26, 2022 21:26
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yeah it's pretty funny that they were doing the same or at least very similar to what they were asking to have investigated. the footnote shows that all the extra accusations were nothing, though. not really a big deal. would be nice if teams just stole signs normally though
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Apr 26, 2022 21:29
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confiscate all the ipads the yankees used during their last championship run oh wait the ipad didn't exist during the yankees last championship run, nevermind
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Apr 26, 2022 21:36
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Wasn't the Red Sox stuff about them specifically using Apple Watches?
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Apr 26, 2022 21:39
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That’s just a small iPad
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Apr 26, 2022 21:40
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I think what's clear here is we need to shut down Apple.
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Apr 26, 2022 21:41
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I wish all divisions except the NL Central would disappear
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Apr 26, 2022 21:41
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Darude - Adam Sandstorm posted:Wasn't the Red Sox stuff about them specifically using Apple Watches? The Sox were using smart watches to communicate the information, although I assume they were still doing the same kind of decoding relay system the Yankees were and not the direct stealing the Astros were. It seems impractical for each player to be wearing a smart watch and checking it for each pitch. I assume it was the same deal of someone in the video replay room decoding the signs, communicating to the dugout by the watch, and then telling the players how to steal from second. Although I guess the guy at second could be wearing a watch? I don't know. The Sox accussed the Yankees of using iPads to watch the broadcast in order to steal the signs live in the dugout and then communicate them to the dugout from the bullpen phone. But besides that seeming to take too long the broadcast is on a delay so MLB dismissed it. But they found evidence of the more rudimentary rotation scheme. I think.
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Apr 26, 2022 21:46
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STAC Goat posted:Cora was suspended for his involvement in the Houston system and the allegation that he brought it to Boston. They just very deliberately didn't really investigate Boston further or reveal anything about who far it did or didn't go. I think they just got a fine for the Apple Watch thing. quote:Major League Baseball has determined that the Red Sox's replay official is primarily to blame for the team's sign-stealing scandal during its 2018 championship season, the league announced Wednesday. The Red Sox will be stripped of their second-round draft pick in 2020, and replay operator J.T. Watkins will be banned through the 2020 playoffs and forbidden to perform replay duties during the 2021 season. Basically what happened is in 2017 when the league said "stop using electronic devices to steal signs" the Sox interpreted that as meaning using electronic devices to relay stolen signs from the replay room. So they stopped using the Apple Watch, but kept deciphering the signs. Which, it sounds like is what the Yankees were also doing.
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Apr 26, 2022 21:50
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It is fairly clear that everyone started cheating after 2016 and the Chicago Cubs remain the true champions to this day.
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Apr 26, 2022 21:51
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howe_sam posted:No, they investigated Boston My impression is that it was alleged that Cora brought the Houston system to Boston in 2018 and MLB did an investigation and didn't reveal anything worse than the watch/Yankee thing but they also didn't give the player immunity they did to Houston to get them to confess, so there was question if the investigation was done seriously or not. And then Cora was fired by Boston and suspended for his role in the Houston cheating which confused the issue. So yeah, its just speculation and allegations and the Cora timing as best as I can tell.
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Apr 26, 2022 22:05
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Niwrad posted:It is fairly clear that everyone started cheating after 2016 and the Chicago Cubs remain the true champions to this day. 
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Apr 26, 2022 22:08
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three titles in four years  Dodgers truly the team of the decade!
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Apr 26, 2022 22:19
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howe_sam posted:No, they investigated Boston The Yankees’ “sign stealing” as alleged in this letter happened during the 2015 and 2016 seasons, no later. The 2017-2018 Astros and 2017-2018 Red Sox were investigated because their “sign stealing” occurred after the league specifically addressed it and made it illegal in a rule on September 15, 2017. This is why quote:MLB also stressed in a statement Tuesday that New York did not violate league rules around sign-stealing that existed at the time. https://theathletic.com/news/yankees-letter-released/RD34OEm8UvG8/
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Apr 26, 2022 22:27
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Oh fair, I meant the techniques being used, not when they were using them sorry.STAC Goat posted:My impression is that it was alleged that Cora brought the Houston system to Boston in 2018 and MLB did an investigation and didn't reveal anything worse than the watch/Yankee thing but they also didn't give the player immunity they did to Houston to get them to confess, so there was question if the investigation was done seriously or not. Uh, no, per the report quote:With respect to Red Sox players, at the outset of the investigation, the Commissioner’s Office and the MLBPA agreed that, in return for their cooperation and honesty during their interviews, current and former Red Sox players would not be subject to discipline based on the results of the investigation, and that the names of the current and former Red Sox players who cooperated with the investigation would be kept confidential and not publicly disclosed.
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Apr 26, 2022 22:35
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Niwrad posted:It is fairly clear that everyone started cheating after 2016 and the Chicago Cubs remain the true champions to this day. I hope unleashing armageddon was worth it you dicks.
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Apr 26, 2022 22:52
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Every team should start cheating with signs imo Offense needs all the help it can get
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Apr 26, 2022 22:56
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf1KRYlNcGs It takes 8 minutes to show every run the Cubs got on Saturday.
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Apr 26, 2022 23:20
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I'm still surprised at how low tech all the sign stealing stuff was. Seems like an automated sign stealing/relay system could be a 10 week undergrad project.
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Apr 26, 2022 23:31
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Kevlar v2.0 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf1KRYlNcGs They had a +17 run differential in a series where they went 1-3, lol.
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Apr 26, 2022 23:42
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Okay cool can we move on from this nonsense now? Everyone used dumb low tech nonsense Astros banged cans keeping this conversation going isn't exactly helping the sport out.
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Apr 26, 2022 23:54
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Splint Chesthair posted:They had a +17 run differential in a series where they went 1-3, lol. It's a little mini 1960 World Series. Yanks win games by scores of 16-3, 10-0 and 12-0 but you know the rest. +28 run differential gets Mazerowski'd.
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Apr 27, 2022 00:10
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Every team should start cheating with signs imo
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Apr 27, 2022 00:46
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Yo I’m watching a game and do you know the strike zone they use on telecasts from the center field camera ? Did they always adjust the top of the zone based on the height of the particular hitters stance or did I just notice it ?
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Apr 27, 2022 00:51
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Gentlemen He did it https://twitter.com/mlbhrvideos/status/1519110085217247234?s=21&t=d4I6sZL_KIMRTjIQ8ZND3A
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Apr 27, 2022 01:25
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Maybe they can trade him now
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Apr 27, 2022 01:26
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Just allow sign stealing but you have to make it comically obvious, like a guy in the center field batter's eye with binoculars blasts a shotgun into the air if the catcher signals for a fastball.
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Apr 27, 2022 01:33
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ihatepants posted:The Yankees’ “sign stealing” as alleged in this letter happened during the 2015 and 2016 seasons, no later. The 2017-2018 Astros and 2017-2018 Red Sox were investigated because their “sign stealing” occurred after the league specifically addressed it and made it illegal in a rule on September 15, 2017. Waiting for the same statement regarding McGwire and andro...
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Apr 27, 2022 01:34
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I am surprised I haven’t seen more articles on the pitch calling tech MLB now allows. Funny enough one of the biggest complaints about it by the Brewer staff is some pitchers don’t like seeing the pitch call right away versus the traditional after they do their little post pitch routine and ready to look at the catcher.
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Apr 27, 2022 02:17
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Kirios posted:Okay cool can we move on from this nonsense now? Everyone used dumb low tech nonsense Astros banged cans keeping this conversation going isn't exactly helping the sport out.
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Apr 27, 2022 02:21
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I remember as a kid watching the little league world series and there was a kid on 2nd, catcher signals for 2, kid on 2nd throws up peace signs for his batter to see. After that, the coaches came out and complained about it. I want a player to do that again.
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Apr 27, 2022 02:51
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Cubs lost but Ethan Roberts did strike out the side, and I'd just like to highlight that this kid throws a goddamn wiffleball. https://twitter.com/PitchingNinja/status/1519126399293947904
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Apr 27, 2022 02:57
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Tony Phillips posted:It's a little mini 1960 World Series. 2001 Series was almost - almost! - a +28 for the loser as well. Dbacks had ourscored the Yankees 35-17, then Rivera came in, yadda yadda yadda 1960 is still the record.
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Apr 27, 2022 02:59
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