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emanresu tnuocca posted:I thought it was good, honestly I would gulp up an entire book written by preston if he can keep up this quality, it was so much better than what D&D pulled off for the equivalent bit in the show despite progressing the plot in the same direction, the amount of clever call backs and actually showing the dothraki to be a sophisticated people with their own politics, the prophecies being political and what the khals want to hear is in retrospect so obvious and yet also fresh. Fan fiction was just just fiction 2 centuries ago.
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Apr 24, 2022 09:31
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:It 100% is to a degree. The Long Night was an apocalyptic event, but there are people who construe the "post-apocalypse" theory as something like "There was an advanced society at least on the level of 20th century technology that got reset at some point." Pretty sure Preston’s apocalyptic event that set the world back to fake-Medieval was The Doom. Because he thinks the Valyrian Empire had robots or something.
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Apr 24, 2022 14:46
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:It 100% is to a degree. The Long Night was an apocalyptic event, but there are people who construe the "post-apocalypse" theory as something like "There was an advanced society at least on the level of 20th century technology that got reset at some point." "to a degree" is doing a lot of work there Some kind of past doom leaving remnants or memories of ancient civilizations is basically fantasy 101. Declaring a fantasy novel post-apocalyptic based on that is like declaring no non-post apocalyptic fiction can ever be written
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Apr 24, 2022 16:23
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Libluini posted:"to a degree" is doing a lot of work there I kind of don't know what you're trying to say with that last sentence. It's just that ASOIAF isn't a "post-apocalyptic story" but a "world that has experienced an apocalypse" if you look at the fact that Essos is made up mostly of ruined cities, and that each culture in the world has some kind of Azor Ahai-type story of a single person who saved the world. The problem comes when there are some people who take the "post-apocalypse" part too far and start saying that Storm's End is a former nuclear power plant. Coquito Ergo Sum fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Apr 25, 2022 01:26
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:I kind of don't know what you're trying to say with that last sentence. It’s laughable to think grrm had some grandiose well orchestrated history and every thing is consistent and makes sense. He’s said repeatedly he doesn’t write that way. His worldbuilding is mostly pretty cliche. Read the tough guide to fantasy land then think about “planetos”. They came out the same year.
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Apr 25, 2022 05:30
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Much of it works better without elaborate wordbuilding, when it's all hints and glimpses. One place I like is the spooky abandoned city Dany finds in the desert, with no definitive clue as to what happened. It serves both a narrative purpose (the characters can rest and recover in relative safety before we move on to the next trials) and a thematic one (this is an old world, there is so much history than some of it has been lost to time). Is it cliché, especially in CentralAsiaos? Yes. Does it work? Also yes. To some extent it works because it's a cliché, it tells you what kind of story you're in, and that it's not exactly the same kind as what goes on in Westeros. Now if there's something in the worldbook or wiki that explained it was founded in 1478 by fantasy Indians to exploit mines of blue cheese, and they packed up and went after the 1845 epidemy of eczema... that's just lame. I don't want to know that. It's counterproductive trivia about something that doesn't even exist.
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Apr 25, 2022 09:22
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Pretty sure Preston’s apocalyptic event that set the world back to fake-Medieval was The Doom. Because he thinks the Valyrian Empire had robots or something. the bits of his video i watched had him speculating that the long night was a nuclear winter (lol) and suggested grrm was reusing material from his thousand worlds setting because he's a hack (also lol).
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Apr 25, 2022 11:18
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Have only been skimming this thread of late, but did preston steal from Shanara?
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Apr 25, 2022 13:17
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Hasselblad posted:Have only been skimming this thread of late, but did preston steal from Shanara? Wouldn't that just be a longer winded way of stealing from Tolkien?
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Apr 25, 2022 18:03
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Deptfordx posted:Wouldn't that just be a longer winded way of stealing from Tolkien? Sort of like if you stole food from Tolkien’s garden, had someone else eat it, then ate the poo poo that came out, yes it’s like stealing from Tolkien circuitously.
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Apr 25, 2022 18:21
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Pretty sure Preston’s apocalyptic event that set the world back to fake-Medieval was The Doom. Because he thinks the Valyrian Empire had robots or something. THE VALYRIAN EMPIRE DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT
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Apr 25, 2022 23:08
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:I noticed Preston's attitude around theories and predictions has changed a bit since he said he started trying to write his own book (not this TWoW project; he was apparently writing something original). While before he used to come up with wild theories just because they filled in holes that he perceived. That, or he would to make predictions about what would happen in ASOIAF based on other GRRM stories. He now kind of tries to wrap theories in things like theming or proper narrative, and even if he's wrong, it's way more interesting and engaging than his old videos where every single action happened because of a grand conspiracy from a handful of puppeteers. I guess I'm happy for him and his growth, but that crazy rear end poo poo was the good poo poo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWGE9Gi0bB0
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Apr 26, 2022 09:43
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:..Storm's End is a former nuclear power plant. Storm's End is a former soviet nuclear power plant, and Stannis is clearly the Stalin archetype.
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Apr 26, 2022 09:46
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If stannis was Stalin he would've won the war
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Apr 26, 2022 20:09
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If GRRM was Stalin the war would still be going on.
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Apr 26, 2022 20:21
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Kuiperdolin posted:If GRRM was Stalin the war would still be going on. "I know many of you care about breaking the siege in Leningrad. In which case, I feel sorry for you, because to me every city is important."
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Apr 27, 2022 03:16
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So, is the book out yet? We're past ten years from the teaser chapters.
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Apr 27, 2022 11:54
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TERFherder posted:I guess I'm happy for him and his growth, but that crazy rear end poo poo was the good poo poo. After he stalled for 63 videos and more than four years starting in 2016 to finish going through every line of actually released Winds chapters something must have given way inside. It's always beautful to see people give up on the absolute fucker, whether it's the spoiler-free book thread, the tv thread, or the wider internet.
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Apr 27, 2022 13:36
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Liquid Communism posted:So, is the book out yet? What’s funnier about that is some of those teaser chapters were written in the early 2000s and just cut from AFFC.
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Apr 27, 2022 14:11
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:I kind of don't know what you're trying to say with that last sentence. This is kind of comical, considering we're in 100% agreement  I was cracking a joke at the people you were complaining about
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Apr 27, 2022 15:02
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Libluini posted:This is kind of comical, considering we're in 100% agreement Yeah, I didn't mean to sound rude, it just reads better now that I'm 100% sure you were being facetious.
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Apr 28, 2022 02:24
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Hasselblad posted:Have only been skimming this thread of late, but did preston steal from Shanara? sounds like he stole from david gemmell
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Apr 28, 2022 03:33
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Preston is definitely on to somethings, off on other things. It's kind of funny GRRM has come to be known as a fantasy author, when the vast overwhelming majority (>99%) of his work is science fiction. It's very clear when people haven't actually read his older stuff. GRRM as an author is absolutely a space age hippy who loves the moon and writing about schizo delusions (Like with Runners.) . He has, on multiple occasions, wrote science fiction stories focused on fantasy characters dealing with science fiction problems (Like in Bitter Blooms). I don't think a lot of people understand that there is a decent genre of fantasy like that, in stuff like Dying Earth by Vance (Who, by the way, was a huge influence for GRRM). That being said, I doubt it'll impact much of how the books end, if at all. Just seems like it's to add to the theme of everyone having a limited perspective on the world. Ravenicus fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Apr 28, 2022 |
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Apr 28, 2022 12:35
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So then why did GRRM decide to ever get into writing an epic fantasy series? I guess it didn’t seem such a daunting task when he originally envisioned it as a trilogy that would be completed by the late 90s.
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Apr 28, 2022 14:14
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GRRM's Sci-Fi always had a good deal of fantasy stirred into it, and it's clear that he read epic fantasy and was probably inspired to try it. Preston is so on and off, but I think he's dialed himself way back in recent years. I remember when he sort of first showed up, he got a lot of pushback when he argued about how POV characters were unreliable narrators. People now realize that they're all unreliable, but I remember the days when readers took the POVs at their word. Preston's biggest problem is that he has a tendency to use that one fallacy I forgot the name of about coming up with a hypothesis, then just going back and cherry-picking any line in a book to use as evidence to prove that theory, which is why the Dornish Master Plan always seemed really dumb to me. You could flip open any of the books and find a food description that proves that Oberyn founded the Bloody Mummers if you wanted to. In other news: Glidus and X, probably the two funniest Ice and Fire channels I know of, have been doing theory videos together that are funny and entertaining: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bm_i8nKFGY. I like that Glidus is ambivalent to theory-crafting even though he's kinda buddies with Preston.
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Apr 29, 2022 01:34
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:So then why did GRRM decide to ever get into writing an epic fantasy series? I guess it didn’t seem such a daunting task when he originally envisioned it as a trilogy that would be completed by the late 90s. 
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Apr 29, 2022 02:37
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I can’t believe his heart hasn’t given out yet.
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Apr 29, 2022 05:31
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Kuiperdolin posted:If GRRM was Stalin the war would still be going on. Junkozeyne posted:If stannis was Stalin he would've won the war Stannis is marching on Winterfell, right? Arbite posted:After he stalled for 63 videos and more than four years starting in 2016 to finish going through every line of actually released Winds chapters something must have given way inside. I wonder if meeting the GRRM played a role in that.
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Apr 29, 2022 06:08
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:GRRM's Sci-Fi always had a good deal of fantasy stirred into it, and it's clear that he read epic fantasy and was probably inspired to try it. Yeah, GRRM really likes psychic stuff and the themes of hearts and minds over warfare. So even a scifi inspired ASOIAF would still have some level of """"magic"""" in psykers. I think most people assume his earlier scifi stuff is like The Martian, when it really has more insane stuff in it similar to 40k. Thousand Worlds even has the inspiration for Mind Flayers and the Githyanki in Dungeons and Dragons, in the Hrangans and the literal Githyanki.
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Apr 29, 2022 06:57
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:Preston's biggest problem is that he has a tendency to use that one fallacy I forgot the name of about coming up with a hypothesis, then just going back and cherry-picking any line in a book to use as evidence to prove that theory, which is why the Dornish Master Plan always seemed really dumb to me. If he's doing it on purpose then it's this one: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-texas-sharpshooter If he's doing it without realising, then it's just plain old confirmation bias
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Apr 29, 2022 16:40
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Tarnop posted:If he's doing it on purpose then it's this one: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-texas-sharpshooter I'm not sure it's that fancy. I think it's plain old: quote:Definition of read into
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Apr 29, 2022 18:21
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Liquid Communism posted:So, is the book out yet? Wow, time flies fast.
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Apr 30, 2022 06:46
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:So then why did GRRM decide to ever get into writing an epic fantasy series? I guess it didn’t seem such a daunting task when he originally envisioned it as a trilogy that would be completed by the late 90s. He wanted to be Tolkien, when deep down in the blackened and cholesterol choked cockles of his heart he's really Joss Whedon.
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Apr 30, 2022 08:03
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Good news everyone. The book that's never coming out is going to be real bigAbsolute fucker posted:THE WINDS OF WINTER is going to be a big book. The way it is going, it could be bigger than A STORM OF SWORDS or A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, the longest books in the series to date. I do usually cut and trim once I finish, but I need to finish first.
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May 1, 2022 09:52
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Well, that's one way to make negative book writing progress.
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May 1, 2022 14:53
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I can only hope most of that is unceremoniously and unambiguously ending a bunch of the stupid plotlines he introduced in Feast and Dance. Rereading those now and like, there's so much poo poo I just don't care about.
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May 1, 2022 14:56
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Remember that a huge chunk of the next book has to already be big plot points from the last two books which he either cut or never finished before the publisher tore the manuscript from his hands.
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May 1, 2022 17:08
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MalarkeyToboggan posted:Good news everyone. The book that's never coming out is going to be real big A non-existent book can be as big as you can imagine it to be. Thanks George.
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May 1, 2022 21:07
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Archer666 posted:A non-existent book can be as big as you can imagine it to be. Thanks George. I’d rather imagine getting the book George rape rape Martin imagines writing than get the book he’ll actually write (none).
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May 1, 2022 22:37
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Personally I think maximum hilarity is that the book does come out, it is legitimately huge, but maintains the painfully slow meandering plot pace of the last two books so that it ends with Dany still yet to reach Westeros. Maybe the epilogue is Jon being resurrected.
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May 2, 2022 01:46
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