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Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

does docker run on windows and macos, or does windows and macos provide a hypervisor that can run linux as a virtual guest, which then runs docker?

both. there is no 'or' about it, the details of how things get executed are just as irrelevant for this as everything else.

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spiritual bypass
Feb 19, 2008

Grimey Drawer
running application servers with docker for windows

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

fyi the by far most convenient way to run sql server on windows is to use the linux versions docker image

Cybernetic Vermin fucked around with this message at 11:56 on May 2, 2022

my homie dhall
Dec 9, 2010

honey, oh please, it's just a machine
i barely know 'er!

ynohtna
Feb 16, 2007

backwoods compatible
Illegal Hen

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

i guess nobody noticed that freebsds crontab(5) has grown a few new options like @N to run N seconds after the last command completed and @every_minute or @every_second

naturally I refresh my freebsd crontab knowledge on a fixed regular schedule, but thanks for the check-in op

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

fyi the by far most convenient way to run sql server on windows is to use the linux versions docker image

this sounds like a joke but it's not

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

same with anything involving python on windows

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009



my homie dhall posted:

on windows it can run native, on osx it runs under hypervisor

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

both. there is no 'or' about it, the details of how things get executed are just as irrelevant for this as everything else.
i don't expect we'll ever see it, but i wonder what the distribution of native vs wsl2-backended docker use is

i would naively assume people move to wsl2, unless the native implementation somehow manages to be 100% compatible with all the interesting ways people make containers including not not limited to just grabbing complete random-rear end binaries of the internet without tls or even checksumming, uncompressing them and running them as root

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

fyi the by far most convenient way to run sql server on windows is to use the linux versions docker image
that's got more to do with microsoft in the year 2022 still not having figured out third-party software distribution despite the idea being over a quarter of a century old

ynohtna posted:

naturally I refresh my freebsd crontab knowledge on a fixed regular schedule, but thanks for the check-in op
but how often is regular, op???

my homie dhall
Dec 9, 2010

honey, oh please, it's just a machine
does windows server or whatever have wsl? it’s almost compelling as a platform if you can run both windows and Linux binaries natively

my homie dhall
Dec 9, 2010

honey, oh please, it's just a machine
answering my own question, holy poo poo it does. that’s awesome except for the main system being windows

maybe we can get a LSW

mystes
May 31, 2006

You realize that if you want a linux server you can just run linux, right?

Private Speech
Mar 30, 2011

I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.


mystes posted:

You realize that if you want a linux server you can just run linux, right?

we have to run windows on our dev laptops, but we can use VMs

hence why I'm using docker, virtualbox, cygwin and wsl (1 sadly because we're on some ancient windows LTS version) at once

at least the laptop is fast and has 64 gigs of ram

my homie dhall
Dec 9, 2010

honey, oh please, it's just a machine

mystes posted:

You realize that if you want a linux server you can just run linux, right?

yeah, I do, but I can’t run the lovely third-party windows apps I need on them. would be nice to only have to janitor one kind of server

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009



Private Speech posted:

we have to run windows on our dev laptops, but we can use VMs

hence why I'm using docker, virtualbox, cygwin and wsl (1 sadly because we're on some ancient windows LTS version) at once

at least the laptop is fast and has 64 gigs of ram
if you're using wsl2 you're using a vm.
wsl1 is based off the freebsd technology called linuxulator that microsoft saw while they ported dtrace from freebsd, which uses syscall translation.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
did you know that bsd invented system call translation?

and virtual machines?

and computers?

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

still, it is kind of cool how influential freebsd was on this, even making dave cutler put syscall personalities into the windows nt design docs back in 1989 despite that being years before either freebsd or linux existed.

mystes
May 31, 2006

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

if you're using wsl2 you're using a vm.
wsl1 is based off the freebsd technology called linuxulator that microsoft saw while they ported dtrace from freebsd, which uses syscall translation.
It's based on work they did for a previous attempt to support Android apps on windows

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009
I just found out another embedded Linux project in our company has it's own network manager they made from scratch.

It uses sprintf instead of snprintf, and makes direct system calls. :psyduck:

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016





that's insane

sprintf problems are so old that even 20 year old static code analysis checkers will detect it

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009



linux ntfs maintainer is awol

FlapYoJacks posted:

I just found out another embedded Linux project in our company has it's own network manager they made from scratch.

It uses sprintf instead of snprintf, and makes direct system calls. :psyduck:
"it seemed like a good idea at the time" might as well be the subtitle for all of programming

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009

BlankSystemDaemon posted:


"it seemed like a good idea at the time" might as well be the subtitle for all of programming

"At the time, management didn't trust FOSS" was the official reasoning. Which is insane in its own right because it’s an embedded Linux project. They plan to move to systemd-network, as the project already uses systemd, making the decision to write their own manager even more strange. (Insert systemd joke here.)

FlapYoJacks fucked around with this message at 19:26 on May 2, 2022

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016





BlankSystemDaemon posted:


"it seemed like a good idea at the time" might as well be the subtitle for all of programming

If it fulfills the requirements then ship it.

Which is why security in solid concepts like type enforcement and coding standards (which is why companies like ldra will always make tons of dough) are clearly written into modern contracts because otherwise you could just ship crap that works but is vulnerable to all kinds of already-solved bugs.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
Sometimes when I feel particularly bored at work I read through Mesa's commit logs. It is nice to see how much progress open source graphics is making these past few years, to the point where its performance is within striking distance of closed-source vendor driver stacks for major high-profile games, and that's something I thought would never happen.

Still, Mesa has a ridiculous amount of quirky meaningless module names in it.

Gallium (Core toolkit for implementing stateful rendering APIs like OpenGL)
Gallivm (Some sort of LLVM integration for Gallium?)
Anvil (Vulkan for Intel graphics)
Turnip (Vulkan for Qualcomm Adreno)
Venus (Vulkan for virtual machines)
Panfrost (Vulkan and Gallium drivers for ARM Mali)
Iris (Gallium driver for newer Intel graphics)
Crocus (Gallium driver for older Intel graphics)
Zink (Gallium driver atop Vulkan drivers)
Kopper (Window system integration for Zink) (which is a separate module for some reason)

There's some slightly more obvious ones like Etnaviv (driver for Vivante GPUs), Virgl (Gallium for virtual machines), Freedreno (Gallium for Qualcomm Adreno) etc and also the external project Asahi (Linux support for Apple Mx SoCs) whose graphics driver project lives in upstream Mesa. Left unmentioned is the NIR shader compiler core that just about all of Mesa's drivers use these days except for I guess the LLVM stuff.

carry on then
Jul 10, 2010

by VideoGames

(and can't post for 10 years!)

Sapozhnik posted:

Sometimes when I feel particularly bored at work I read through Mesa's commit logs. It is nice to see how much progress open source graphics is making these past few years, to the point where its performance is within striking distance of closed-source vendor driver stacks for major high-profile games, and that's something I thought would never happen.

Still, Mesa has a ridiculous amount of quirky meaningless module names in it.

Gallium (Core toolkit for implementing stateful rendering APIs like OpenGL)
Gallivm (Some sort of LLVM integration for Gallium?)
Anvil (Vulkan for Intel graphics)
Turnip (Vulkan for Qualcomm Adreno)
Venus (Vulkan for virtual machines)
Panfrost (Vulkan and Gallium drivers for ARM Mali)
Iris (Gallium driver for newer Intel graphics)
Crocus (Gallium driver for older Intel graphics)
Zink (Gallium driver atop Vulkan drivers)
Kopper (Window system integration for Zink) (which is a separate module for some reason)

There's some slightly more obvious ones like Etnaviv (driver for Vivante GPUs), Virgl (Gallium for virtual machines), Freedreno (Gallium for Qualcomm Adreno) etc and also the external project Asahi (Linux support for Apple Mx SoCs) whose graphics driver project lives in upstream Mesa. Left unmentioned is the NIR shader compiler core that just about all of Mesa's drivers use these days except for I guess the LLVM stuff.

"You said you wanted to live in a world without Zink, Jimmy!"

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
Incidentally there's a really good article I read about Mesa's NIR compiler that I read a while ago:

https://www.jlekstrand.net/jason/blog/2022/01/in-defense-of-nir/

The_Franz
Aug 8, 2003

Sapozhnik posted:

Sometimes when I feel particularly bored at work I read through Mesa's commit logs. It is nice to see how much progress open source graphics is making these past few years, to the point where its performance is within striking distance of closed-source vendor driver stacks for major high-profile games, and that's something I thought would never happen.

i have an old htpc with a haswell cpu and a gcn 1.0 gpu. with windows 7 and the official amd drivers, i tried running yuzu on it and it maybe hit 60-70% speed at best. after dumping windows and trying again with linux with the radv vulkan drivers (after turning on some kernel boot flags, because, while the gpu has support in the modern driver, amd's official stance is that it's unsupported), most games run at full speed as long as you don't turn on any upscaling. this is on hardware that's almost 10 years old mind you

the mesa people have really done an amazing job with radv and aco

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
It's a shame Gallium's D3D frontends never gained any traction though. Supporting Direct3D <12 natively always seemed like a more sensible approach than translating D3D to Vulkan and having to have all of the weird API quirks in the D3D translation layer. The classic example for these quirks is texture uploading: games would upload a texture and then immediately draw a triangle from that texture somewhere offscreen, because nVidia (of course, who else) gonna nVidia and they didn't really upload the texture until you tried to use it. So games used to stutter for a few frames immediately after loading finished until game developers started putting that workaround in. So now every stateful (OpenGL, D3D<12) graphics API implementation has to have special cases and quirks for all of this crap.

I guess the main reason why WINE upstream never merged support for those frontends is that you need a GPU which has Gallium support, and until very recently Intel had some drivers that used Mesa's legacy non-Gallium driver path. The legacy Mesa code was only deleted in December, and there's a Gallium driver called Crocus now which is considered to support old Intel hardware to an acceptable standard. Newer post-Haswell hardware has been supported exclusively by the Gallium Iris driver for several years now.

Tankakern
Jul 25, 2007

yeah i used (and might still use, havent checked for a while) that mesa gallium d3d9 backend, it was/still is neat

nice summary, agreed that it's amazing how far mesa has come

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016





Sapozhnik posted:

Incidentally there's a really good article I read about Mesa's NIR compiler that I read a while ago:

https://www.jlekstrand.net/jason/blog/2022/01/in-defense-of-nir/

pro click

really interesting to see how differing requirements between code compilers and gpu compilers can make your own custom compiler more viable

also, when the compilers and drivers are developed in such a quick cadence, it really helps to align release schedules

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:
The Mesa project is pretty impressive. And I think they have some fun names: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/marge-bot :dadjoke:

Tankakern
Jul 25, 2007

apropos mesa, alyssa's had some great progress lately with the m1:

https://twitter.com/alyssarzg/status/1523475500097699840

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

why does this need a dockerfile with a shitload of dependencies, when @120 yt-dlp <a bunch of flags> in a crontab is all that's needed

i guess nobody noticed that freebsds crontab(5) has grown a few new options like @N to run N seconds after the last command completed and @every_minute or @every_second

Because I like Docker a whole lot and containerize everything i can and also i do it for my job now. Next

outhole surfer
Mar 18, 2003

Jonny 290 posted:

Because I like Docker a whole lot and containerize everything i can and also i do it for my job now. Next

When the only tool you know how to use is a hammer...

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp
lmao

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

Tankakern posted:

apropos mesa, alyssa's had some great progress lately with the m1:

https://twitter.com/alyssarzg/status/1523475500097699840

pretty cool although the danger with this sort of thing is AAPL waving some eye wateringly huge salary in key devs' faces and the project immediately collapses. then again they don't really seem to care one way or the other about stuff like asahi linux otherwise they would have just locked the bootloader in the first place

post hole digger
Mar 21, 2011
does the free red hat developer "subscription" no longer include kb/access access? :negative:

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005

a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face
speaking of mesa, on chromeos in particular: is there any way to, idk, speed up virgl? cros uses it for containers and various vms. while performance isn't that bad, it's probably ~70% of native and i don't see why that necessarily should be since typically we're not talking about a full vm, just a fancy sandbox. compiling my own mesa helped a little

Rufus Ping
Dec 27, 2006





I'm a Friend of Rodney Nano

post hole digger posted:

does the free red hat developer "subscription" no longer include kb/access access? :negative:

works for me, op

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

why does this need a dockerfile with a shitload of dependencies, when @120 yt-dlp <a bunch of flags> in a crontab is all that's needed

i guess nobody noticed that freebsds crontab(5) has grown a few new options like @N to run N seconds after the last command completed and @every_minute or @every_second

because it's a python program and the only correct way of distributing python software is via docker images

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Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

hurr durr just use pip+virtualenv it's great :fuckoff:

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