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echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

by Fluffdaddy

zokie posted:

just jumping in to say that as a computer touched ADHD has in many ways been a boon. one thing I’ve come to realize is that with ADHD you have zero “internal” motivation, either something is interesting and I’ll do it or it’s not interesting. the only other way is OTHER people care about something which works great for me at work. As long as I feel that others care about some project I’m a efficient coding machine, but if there’s no real deadline or stakeholders driving the project I end up doing everything but what I should be doing.

despite not being diagnosed, yet, maybe, this resonates real hard

it’s poo poo knowing you’re capable to do huge things but struggling to get off the ground with it. and I am glad for the knowledge that there are ways to take advantage.

PIZZA.BAT posted:

funny how that works out

actually i’ve been thinking about this and it’s actually really meaningful. anyone here who knows me knows i can be a real fuckup, totally misread the room, etc. I have a terrible self esteem (I think it comes from being jack of all trades master of none), but

I got this job because, without trying to impress, I was just myself. all the best parts of me are respecting others and compassion etc are what got me the job.

because I came to the realisation that it was enough. I didn’t have to dazzle or win over. was literally just myself and that was enough for them to forgo the hiring process and just come straight to me. they haven’t even worked with me, just the glowing comments from those i’ve worked with. something to feel good about, actually good about. something resistant to attack by doubting self esteem

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hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Achmed Jones posted:

the leetcode algo lottery sucks, but it's some semblance of objective. anyone can learn the leetcode thing. it's much more game-able than other things. it's not as nice as "do work like you'll be doing," but if you do that honestly you're looking at "tryout periods" and long takehomes and stuff that are their own brand of horrible. anyone who is reasonably intelligent can (if they can find the time) learn to do the algo problems. this is a stand-in for "can learn our weird-rear end tech stack" at a lot of places and it sucks but, like, the thing that would actually fit our model is an apprenticeship and accreditation system like the skilled trades use, but that's not happening any time soon (im not convinced it's even meaningfully possible tbh)

and "has the working memory etc. necessary to leetcode" is at least better than "is white, is male, is gender-conforming" etc

and at least if you’re used to leetcode stuff you’ll knock easier interviews out of the park

gnatalie
Jul 1, 2003

blasting women into space

Plorkyeran posted:

when i am forced to interview people i am doing my best to find reasons to justify hiring them so that i don't have to interview more people.

Asymmetric POSTer
Aug 17, 2005

zokie posted:

just jumping in to say that as a computer touched ADHD has in many ways been a boon. one thing I’ve come to realize is that with ADHD you have zero “internal” motivation, either something is interesting and I’ll do it or it’s not interesting. the only other way is OTHER people care about something which works great for me at work. As long as I feel that others care about some project I’m a efficient coding machine, but if there’s no real deadline or stakeholders driving the project I end up doing everything but what I should be doing.

drat, i have adhd

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

by Fluffdaddy

Asymmetric POSTer posted:

drat, i have adhd

whos gonna start the "lets diagnose ourselves with adhd" thread

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

echinopsis posted:

whos gonna start the "lets diagnose ourselves with adhd" thread

e/n has one already

Pythagoras a trois
Feb 19, 2004

I have a lot of points to make and I will make them later.
They have an app for that now and being TikTok it'll tell you whatever you want to hear

barkbell
Apr 14, 2006

woof

Corla Plankun posted:

is there a modern book that can catch me up on the new stuff?

whenever i write a userscript to fix a lovely website I'm always pleasantly surprised by how easy it is to write vanilla js and i honestly do kinda want to learn more. But I will never learn a js framework for as long as I live because that poo poo seems like even more useless and easily-obsoleted knowledge than the D&D sourcebooks i memorized as a teen.

i like eloquent javascript

https://eloquentjavascript.net/

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

nudgenudgetilt posted:

references are being checked for a gig at a university. kinda surprised by the questionnaire at least one of my references got:

1. What were the dates of his/her employment with your firm?
2. What was his/her job title and primary responsibilities when he/she started?
3. How would you describe the quality of his/her work?
4. How well did he/she respond to pressure (e.g., from high volume, deadlines, multiple tasks, public
contact)?

5. How well did he/she plan and organize his/her work, and were assignments completed in a timely
fashion? Yes, and again with the attention to quality control.

6. What was the amount of supervision required for him/her?
7. How well did he/she get along with other people (e.g., clients, co-workers, supervisors)?
8. How did he/she respond to criticism/interpersonal conflict?
9. What are his/her strongest skills as an employee? Interpersonal skills, good leader, wanted quality work, didn’t want to cut corners.
10. What areas of his/her performance needed improvement?
11. What was the reason for termination?
12. Would you rehire him/her at the same level?

What else would you want me to know?

lol what the gently caress no reference should or would answer this

Corla Plankun
May 8, 2007

improve the lives of everyone
i think workplace references are actually instructed specifically not to say any of that stuff

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Universities are throwbacks in a lot of ways but I'm still surprised to see something like that.

hot dog event
Apr 17, 2002

i made a lot of posts in early jan while in the hunt for a job. able to say that 2022 is indeed Year of the Job. took the new role, 30% pay bump + p deece RSUs vesting over 4y

went to the doc the other day for a checkup and my blood pressure had dropped 10 points. i really do think it was the stress of being in a place both physically and mentally that was in a literal sense slowly killing me

vouching that this thread has made me more money, i hope it does the same for all of you. namaste, bitches

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

RokosCockatrice posted:

They have an app for that now and being TikTok it'll tell you whatever you want to hear

more seriously the computerized attention tests can now be done remotely on your own pc so long as a psychologist is watching you on video

outhole surfer
Mar 18, 2003

Corla Plankun posted:

i think workplace references are actually instructed specifically not to say any of that stuff

nah, references are different from employment verification -- generally speaking by asking someone to provide a reference for you, you're granting them permission to speak freely about you. that said, obviously you want to know that your reference will say good things.

employment verification is where you're unlikely to get more than a "yes, they worked here between these dates"

honestly, aside from the termination question, I think a varying majority of the questions get asked in a typical reference call. it's just way more off putting and weird when presented as a wall of text rather than a conversation. it almost feels like the hiring manager did a full list copypasta of recommended reference questions

Pythagoras a trois
Feb 19, 2004

I have a lot of points to make and I will make them later.
Elaborating on my point earlier, this is my hype up jam before I go into an interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HRtmThCW2U

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
welp basically got offered the new job. just get paper work thru


I have 8 weeks of notice stipulated on my current contract but they need me in 4 so just gonna have to do it. i’ve been here for 5 years and a lot of people know me etc. i could easily guilt myself into staying, people from the community tell me i can’t leave all the time. in my time here a lot of competition has sprung up and people have made it clear they only still come here cos of me. but in a month there won’t be me .. i’m torn, but, can’t let it stop me from moving forward

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
loyalty is for peeps who own more than 1% of the company, as my old boss said (he owned 22% lol)

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
:hmmyes:


e: just told one person and they said “what the gently caress, that’s not ok” ☹️😬

echinopsis fucked around with this message at 03:58 on May 16, 2022

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

echinopsis posted:

:hmmyes:


e: just told one person and they said “what the gently caress, that’s not ok” ☹️😬

if they wanted to stop you from leaving they would be paying you more. a lot more. im guessing the amount of loyalty they're paying for is actually pretty low, and you've already exceeded that in your current output, or you wouldn't be so ready to leave

if your leaving puts a strain on the company, that's on management, not on you

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
Oh I don’t disagree at all.


the people who will miss me are people in the community. and i’ll miss some of them too. some of these people I’ve seen every couple of weeks for the past 5 years, we ask about each other’s kids and weekends etc. it’s just not nothing ya know?

anyway, it just is what it is. some people have already said they’re just gonna follow me to the new pharmacy.

there are also some people I will definitely not miss lol

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


Raluek posted:

if they wanted to stop you from leaving they would be paying you more. a lot more. im guessing the amount of loyalty they're paying for is actually pretty low, and you've already exceeded that in your current output, or you wouldn't be so ready to leave

if your leaving puts a strain on the company, that's on management, not on you

there is a direct correlation between how much a company guilts you about loyalty vs. how much they're underpaying you

ie: the louder they are about how you should be loyal has a direct connection to how much they know they're underpaying you. it's not a coincidence that this is also directly related to how entitled the management is in expecting to always having subservient workers to make them money

edit:

echinopsis posted:

anyway, it just is what it is. some people have already said they’re just gonna follow me to the new pharmacy.

ding ding ding ding ding!

KirbyKhan
Mar 20, 2009



Soiled Meat

echinopsis posted:

Oh I don’t disagree at all.


the people who will miss me are people in the community. and i’ll miss some of them too. some of these people I’ve seen every couple of weeks for the past 5 years, we ask about each other’s kids and weekends etc. it’s just not nothing ya know?

anyway, it just is what it is. some people have already said they’re just gonna follow me to the new pharmacy.

there are also some people I will definitely not miss lol

Oh gently caress yeah, you accidentally built a phara army. Now that is actual, real, earned loyalty.

That shits the bomb, fuckin drop it on those management scrubs giving you the loyalty poo poo.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

KirbyKhan posted:

. Now that is actual, real, earned loyalty.

qirex
Feb 15, 2001

welp, almost done updating my resume, now I need to get to work on my portfolio yay [when you work in finance this involves redacting anything that could be construed as customer or account data]

Pythagoras a trois
Feb 19, 2004

I have a lot of points to make and I will make them later.

echinopsis posted:

Oh I don’t disagree at all.


the people who will miss me are people in the community. and i’ll miss some of them too. some of these people I’ve seen every couple of weeks for the past 5 years, we ask about each other’s kids and weekends etc. it’s just not nothing ya know?

anyway, it just is what it is. some people have already said they’re just gonna follow me to the new pharmacy.

there are also some people I will definitely not miss lol

Knowing nothing about your situation, I'd recommend if it's primarily a move for money it would be a good idea to design a stay case that you would be satisfied to accept and bring it to your boss. Salary, stock, new role responsibilities and/or title, whatever it would take for you to walk away from the new job offer and say "man this is better".

No harm if your boss can't match your 3x salary at the new place and he tells you that explicitly, but trying to craft a position / role that takes advantage of what you're good at and comparing it against your comp requirements is good exercise. And he might bite, turning your 3x salary into, idk, 3x salary plus stock and a good paid time off policy.

edit: I say this as a manager who has fought to keep people who held teams together. They're worth more than the standard rate, and having a frank conversation about how hosed up the existing pay bands are is really helpful.

Pythagoras a trois fucked around with this message at 16:21 on May 16, 2022

Fart Sandwiches
Apr 4, 2006

i never asked for this
first day at new job. feels good man. I like onboarding stuff because I get paid for paperwork and I like to complete checklists

dioxazine
Oct 14, 2004

interviewing with a CTO at the half hour here :negative:

doing it on company time :toot:

i'll probably need stomach medicine afterwards

man in the eyeball hat
Dec 23, 2006

Capture the opening of the portal that connects this earth of 3D to one earth of 4D or 5D. Going to the 5D.

My meeting with a potential new job went well last week, ended with them asking me if I wanted to do a full interview. The work sounds good, and I feel like I know what I want to ask if I do a full interview to make sure it's not toxic.

My only issue now is navigating the interview and negotiation with my current job. I would like to:

1. Get a salary estimate from the new place
2. Give my current job a chance to counter offer before I commit to leaving, assuming the new place does give me an offer
3. Not burn bridges at my current job or potential next job

I see pt 3 as important because I could conceivably encounter coworkers from either place again in the future, since it's relatively specific work, or I might want to move down the line. Pt 1 is so I don't waste new job's time with an interview I have no interest in taking. Pt 2 is important because really, I'd be happy to remain where I am if they bumped my pay.

If I negotiate a raise where I am and turn down a new offer, is that a dick move? I have a number that would be a no-go for any interview at all (minimum raise over current rate), and I have thoughts on what it would take to get me to stay at my current job.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



lol what

no it is not a dick move to turn down an offer for employment

"how could you not accept our offer? after we _interviewed you and everything!_ we even typed it up on the good paper!"

there are things to worry about by accepting stay-offers. mostly, if it's so important to keep you, why weren't they doing that before? will anything change? it's not gonna go great if you have to threaten to quit every year to get market comp. also, have you painted a target on your back now that they know you're willing to leave, and willing to strongarm them? pulling a "raise or i walk" thing changes the dynamic, so be careful. the best way to not screw yourself over is with "hey so i turned down this offer, but it was hard." but doing that gives you absolutely no leverage if they say "cool thanks, but no raise for you." common wisdom is that staying is a sucker's play

leaving will never burn bridges at anything but the most toxic of hellholes. that is how employment works. you are not abandoning them. if they wanted it they shouldve put a ring set of golden handcuffs on it

man in the eyeball hat
Dec 23, 2006

Capture the opening of the portal that connects this earth of 3D to one earth of 4D or 5D. Going to the 5D.

Thanks, that's helpful to hear. I'm going to spend some time thinking about it but at the least taking the full interview and seeing the offer shouldn't be a problem.

e- for a bit of context, i only moved to my current job after i really got fed up with my first job post-grad school. i didnt quit violently, but i was absolutely interviewing to get the gently caress out and i had no interest in staying. being more at ease in my current job is making this more muddled

man in the eyeball hat fucked around with this message at 19:58 on May 16, 2022

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan


you're looking for a reason. if you get a better offer take it, if you don't, don't. re-negotiating with your current job is usually not a great idea but can sometimes pay off if you legit like it but most people who like their jobs don't do interviews

dioxazine
Oct 14, 2004

i have only ever heard horror stories from people taking counters. additional responsibilities, management treating them like the enemy, etc.

i'm sure it has worked out for a few people, but it definitely warrants a lot of caution

in a well actually
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

counters are the safest at large bureaucratic places where they’re expected as the only way to get money out of hr as an extremely dumb market survey

but even then your management chain has to be chill; because you’re now a flight risk, or mercenary, not interested in a long term career there, etc.

man in the eyeball hat
Dec 23, 2006

Capture the opening of the portal that connects this earth of 3D to one earth of 4D or 5D. Going to the 5D.

This is all helpful to keep in mind, and I appreciate someone telling me these things bluntly.

I am not interested in job hopping endlessly every ~2 years, but that's about how long I've been at my current place and last place. Does anyone have advice on how they identify a place to be worth settling at for a while?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


man in the eyeball hat posted:

Does anyone have advice on how they identify a place to be worth settling at for a while?

Not toxic, reasonable growth opportunities and competitive comp are all necessary but may not be sufficient, particularly as you get more senior. At that point it's more personal, though, and it's hard to generalize from other people's experiences.

ultravoices
May 10, 2004

You are about to embark on a great journey. Are you ready, my friend?

in a well actually posted:

counters are the safest at large bureaucratic places where they’re expected as the only way to get money out of hr as an extremely dumb market survey

but even then your management chain has to be chill; because you’re now a flight risk, or mercenary, not interested in a long term career there, etc.

you should always be a flight risk and a mercenary

outhole surfer
Mar 18, 2003

ultravoices posted:

you should always be a flight risk and a mercenary

always be one, but also always avoid being perceived as one

Truman Peyote
Oct 11, 2006



nudgenudgetilt posted:

always be one, but also always avoid being perceived as one

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually
yep. you should be the smilingest, happiest, whistle-while-you-workingest employee imaginable right up to the moment you hand in your two weeks notice

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barkbell
Apr 14, 2006

woof
then you should smile more

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