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Beeftweeter posted:...what benefits, afaik it's been a massive waste with super low uptake and is forcing them to default? I imagine there's at least one person who heavily benefited from it.
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May 16, 2022 19:43
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:yes, every lightning network connection is between two people and they have to commit upfront to every bitcoin that they ever want to spend over it (which will get locked into the lightning channel). if it runs out you have to spend enormous bitcoin transaction fees creating a new channel. Holy lmao. What a simple and easy solution!
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May 16, 2022 19:49
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oh good i didn't just imagine the NP-hard problem part
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May 16, 2022 19:53
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Shame Boy posted:oh good i didn't just imagine the NP-hard problem part i mean my eyes kinda glazed over and i read it as "p2p multiplex, but with blockchain!" and just kinda assumed it
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May 16, 2022 19:54
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is it still np-hard if you just want to find any working path instead of the most optimal? don't get me wrong, it's a stupid system either way
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May 16, 2022 19:57
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in practice they avoid the np-hard bit by throwing out the decentralization and just using a few giant centralised lightning nodes with a hub-and-spoke model as long as you keep n low enough it doesn't matter that your pathfinding algo is O(2^n) or whatever
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May 16, 2022 20:08
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Well regardless, if they're making those throughput estimates without considering the topology of the network then those estimates are hilariously inaccurate.
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May 16, 2022 20:45
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ryde posted:Well regardless, if they're making those throughput estimates without considering the topology of the network then those estimates are hilariously inaccurate. i think you're wildly overestimating their networking abilities here
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May 16, 2022 20:47
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bitcoiners misinterpreting or misrepresenting data to make bitcoin look good?! i never
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May 16, 2022 20:48
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Misrepresenting throughput? Ridiculous! Everyone knows that you measure a network's bandwidth by counting every single connection in the network and then multiplying that number by the largest theoretical connection speed that a connection can have.
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May 16, 2022 20:53
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Boxturret posted:bitcoiners misinterpreting or misrepresenting data to make bitcoin look good?! scams involving cryptocurrencies? psh. pshaw. humbug, i say. humbug
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May 16, 2022 20:56
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Beeftweeter posted:...what benefits, afaik it's been a massive waste with super low uptake and is forcing them to default? gotta get more marks in on the ponzi to prop it up i guess
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May 16, 2022 21:06
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Mercury_Storm posted:gotta get more marks in on the ponzi to prop it up i guess - the one who did nothing wrong - force five - the one in the funky bunch welp im outta marks
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May 16, 2022 21:20
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Weatherman posted:welp im outta marks no such thing in crypto
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May 16, 2022 21:20
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the lightning network has achieved its goal of giving bitcoiners a response to people to complain that bitcoin is slow and expensive if it's not actually useful for anything that's because it's still in beta. just like the internet which took 150 years from its invention to commercial success
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May 16, 2022 21:57
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The np stands for "No Problem!"
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May 16, 2022 22:19
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according to verizon's numbers they handle ~a billion calls in the us a day. figure the other carriers are about the same then that works out to between 10k and 100k call a second depending on time of day and so on now imagine trying to make phone calls by finding a busy line that the person you're trying to reach already happens to be on
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May 16, 2022 22:24
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drat imagine how big that number was back when people actually made phone calls
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May 16, 2022 22:26
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My high school friend I haven't talk to in years, that is just getting into buttcoin sent me a message today knowing I am the "computer dude" "I just put all my money into coins, it can't get any lower. This is time to buy!!!"
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May 16, 2022 22:26
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Sapozhnik posted:drat imagine how big that number was back when people actually made phone calls imagine being an operator that has to physically connect them 
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May 16, 2022 22:30
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Why does the guy named Ross look like Chandler? It's very confusing.
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May 16, 2022 22:42
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Bone Crimes posted:Holy lmao. What a simple and easy solution! Simple and elegant! quote:Say Alice opens a channel with her favorite coffee shop and deposits $100 worth of bitcoin in it. Her transactions with the coffee shop are instant because she has a direct channel with it. [Alice has a channel with the coffee shop and another with bob] Alice: I want to buy a coffee. Coffee shop: Sorry but Bob used all your lightning credit. We need to close the channel and then create a new one for you to buy more coffee. Alice: But I don't have BTC left! I still haven't settled my balance with Bob. I have to close the alice-bob channel to get the bitcoins that he used to buy coffee from you. (Bob walks in) Bob: It's simple, I close my channel with you then you get the BTC I used to pay for the coffee (which are now worth 30% less) to open a new channel with the coffee shop and then we re-open our channel Alice: So you can empty my coffee shop credit again? I don't think I'll want to create joinder with you from now on! Bob: Oh, come on! Don't be mean. Alice: Fine! I'll allow you to continue to transact on my coffee channel. Bob: (You rear end in a top hat, I'll spend all the coins on the coffee channel and then try a forced closure when she goes on vacation) Have a great day! Alice: (I bet he'll try to steal my coins during my vacation, I'll JUSTICE STRIKE his sorry rear end and get all the coins) You too! From the wiki: quote:In order for Alice to steal Bob’s funds, she must attempt to close the channel non-cooperatively (without the knowledge of the other party) and speculate at a moment when the other side is not online. If these conditions are met, then Alice will broadcast an older channel state and hope that Bob will not get online within the established time (usually 24 hours) to automatically set the record straight. Why, yes, you can indeed try to steal all the coins from a channel and if the other party doesn't justice strike you in time then you get the coins, otherwise they get them. trucutru fucked around with this message at 22:48 on May 16, 2022 |
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May 16, 2022 22:42
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trucutru posted:Why, yes, you can indeed try to steal all the coins from a channel and if the other party doesn't justice strike you in time then you get the coins, otherwise they get them. Wow, this could lead to some really messy situations if there were any unscrupulous people involved in bitcoin.
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May 16, 2022 22:46
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Sweating profusely, fingers pressed to temples, rotating 12-dimensional chessboards in your mind as you attempt to formulate the optimal Frappucino strategy
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May 16, 2022 23:17
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can anyone explain to me how they made finding an optimal path thru a graph into an np hard problem? is it somehow to do with Decentralization and no node knowing the “full” picture? but IP routing works fine idk
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May 16, 2022 23:26
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also lmao at the justice system
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May 16, 2022 23:27
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a problem is np-hard if thinking about it makes your nipples hard hth
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May 16, 2022 23:28
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Tormented posted:My high school friend I haven't talk to in years, that is just getting into buttcoin sent me a message today knowing I am the "computer dude" there's lots of support at zero
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May 16, 2022 23:34
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It was supposed to be np as in 'no problem', but it's actually 'no, problem'.
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May 16, 2022 23:35
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cool av posted:can anyone explain to me how they made finding an optimal path thru a graph into an np hard problem? a coiner i know asked for coding help about this once in slack and iirc it’s basically because the goal is rent-seeking — i forget exactly but it’s something like you want to minimize the number of nodes you visit while maximizing the fees that nodes can collect, so you’re trying to find the longest of the shortest paths it was all very stupid sounding and i probably have the details wrong
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May 17, 2022 00:13
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also known as the traveling scamsman problem
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May 17, 2022 00:16
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look, crypto is still technically in its infancy, and it's understandable that things like the lightning network are still a bit rough around the edges i mean i'm sure everyone here remembers when encryption started popping up on the web for commercial sites and you had to find someone who had made a transaction either directly with the site you wanted to buy from or with someone who did, or some longer chain from you to the store. then of course you had to execute those key exchange protocols in your head. and then you could finally send your credit card number over to get scammed. well crypto is still in that phase
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May 17, 2022 00:19
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:look, crypto is still technically in its infancy, and it's understandable that things like the lightning network are still a bit rough around the edges they better figure it out quick, Bitcoin is 14 years old so they've only got 4 more years before most coiners lose interest
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May 17, 2022 00:21
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Jose Valasquez posted:they better figure it out quick, Bitcoin is 14 years old so they've only got 4 more years before most coiners lose interest
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May 17, 2022 00:28
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Jose Valasquez posted:they better figure it out quick, Bitcoin is 14 years old so they've only got 4 more years before most coiners lose interest lol
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May 17, 2022 00:37
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Jose Valasquez posted:they better figure it out quick, Bitcoin is 14 years old so they've only got 4 more years before most coiners lose interest 
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May 17, 2022 00:44
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Jose Valasquez posted:they better figure it out quick, Bitcoin is 14 years old so they've only got 4 more years before most coiners lose interest lol
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May 17, 2022 01:04
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orange sky posted:https://twitter.com/WatcherGuru/status/1526202366906798080?t=FWGdyspn5GpmS65iXEixRw&s=19 Their pinned tweet is a job listing for new social media manager
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May 17, 2022 01:12
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:look, crypto is still technically in its infancy, and it's understandable that things like the lightning network are still a bit rough around the edges Isn't the lightning network getting constantly hyped up as a huge step forward for bitcoin dominance because it lets you actually buy things Just incredible that it turns out it's the stupidest poo poo I've ever seen. Having to check your bank account every 24 hours to make sure a coffee shop didn't run off with your entire grocery budget.
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May 17, 2022 01:33
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Pigbuster posted:Isn't the lightning network getting constantly hyped up as a huge step forward for bitcoin dominance because it lets you actually buy things they've been yammering about lightning network for six or seven years at least and before that it was sidechains that would fix all of bitcoin's problems.
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May 17, 2022 01:42
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