Sexual Assault and the Culture of Hollywood

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Sexual Assault and the Culture of Hollywood

John Wick of Dogs: Mar 4, 2017; A real hellraiser

https://twitter.com/IwriteOK/status/1527005407935606790?t=HtstWAu5lrWe7fJFt9YVbw&s=19
https://twitter.com/mahoushoujoasha/status/1527027432481402880?t=pCrbCI6N2C9ebvw6L3fKbg&s=19
https://twitter.com/jesserca/status/1527033591305097217?t=BgcLvskAw3twSa7SFNtO0w&s=19

This so definitely happening to me as well and it is loving insidious. Someone is throwing serious botfarm cash to pump up this abusive piece of poo poo.

# ? May 19, 2022 04:26

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 02:17

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Karloff posted:

I don't think it's performative. You must understand that for many that crime is unforgivable and that is a perfectly okay thing to feel. I believe in redemption, and I believe that people do terrible things sometimes but do the work of trying to be a better person and that should be looked at with compassion and grace. But for many, especially in regards to that crime and sometimes due to their own experiences, they don't have the bandwidth in order to do that, so shaming someone for having a negative view of Tyson despite him going to jail is a bad look imo.

So I think there's a bigger issue there. I am in the boat of thinking it is an absolutely abhorrent crime and I would not want anything to do with someone who committed it. I don't think it is wrong for anyone to feel that way on a personal level. (Especially if they are a victim.)

But I do think there is a problem with partaking in public shaming and ridicule for someone who has actually suffered consequences for their actions. Our society is already custom-tailored to make it nearly impossible for anyone who has ever committed a crime (especially black men) to get a chance to survive once they leave prison. I don't think anyone is obligated to like Mike Tyson on any level and he's isolated from the worst consequences by being famous.

But if you're going to hold the viewpoint of "this person is irrevocably tainted and can never again be treated as anything but" then it raises the question of what you think should happen. Should he be imprisoned forever? Exiled from society? Do you think he should have been put to death? Because the viewpoint of "We should never let people out of prison" or "They should be killed" is applied to black men a whole loving lot and not many of them have Mike Tyson's fame to protect them. And I don't think anyone saying this is specifically applying it to Tyson because of his skin color but it still contributes to the lovely lovely atmosphere around prisons.

It is extremely hard for me to get past my personal viewpoint on the issue for personal reasons, so I am not saying I don't empathize and understand the feelings behind it. But I loving *hate* the idea of 'prison' that society has built up where once you've entered prison you can never, ever, be anything but your crime and society is right to ostracize and exclude you even if you genuinely change yourself. And yes that requires empathy for people I despise but "have empathy for people I despise" is a necessity to wanting people to be treated like human beings.

I don't think there is a problem with someone being removed from society as punishment for crimes but I also think it should come with genuine attempts to try to make that person able to reenter society, not to line the pockets of the For-Profit Prison Industry, and creating a society where recidivism is encouraged and moving on is impossible so prisons get more free basically-slave labor contributes to that.

And obviously not a single loving bit of this applies to the many, many, many people in Hollywood who have raped and assaulted and get off with a slap on the wrist or are 'cancelled' in a completely meaningless way.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:33 on May 19, 2022

# ? May 19, 2022 04:27

YOLOsubmarine: Oct 19, 2004; When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."

kaworu posted:

It�s not like it�s a difficult thing to go through the day - or even your entire adult life - without throwing a single punch. Or shoving, or acting physically violent in any way at all. I�m 37 years old, had serious anger and temper issues as a child and, and I haven�t thrown a punch at anyone in my whole life. It�s not like it�s hugely challenging to avoid violence or violent situations on a personal level, it only requires the tiniest level of maturity and restraint. The ability to know how and when to walk away and not purposely escalate or provoke poo poo.

I�m going to be generous here and assume you didn�t mean this the way it reads, but a lot of people don�t have the option of simply not being around violence.

# ? May 19, 2022 04:32

Karloff: Mar 21, 2013

ImpAtom posted:

So I think there's a bigger issue there. I am in the boat of thinking it is an absolutely abhorrent crime and I would not want anything to do with someone who committed it. I don't think it is wrong for anyone to feel that way on a personal level. (Especially if they are a victim.)

But I do think there is a problem with partaking in public shaming and ridicule for someone who has actually suffered consequences for their actions. Our society is already custom-tailored to make it nearly impossible for anyone who has ever committed a crime (especially black men) to get a chance to survive once they leave prison. I don't think anyone is obligated to like Mike Tyson on any level and he's isolated from the worst consequences by being famous.

But if you're going to hold the viewpoint of "this person is irrevocably tainted and can never again be treated as anything but" then it raises the question of what you think should happen. Should he be imprisoned forever? Exiled from society? Do you think he should have been put to death? Because the viewpoint of "We should never let people out of prison" or "They should be killed" is applied to black men a whole loving lot and not many of them have Mike Tyson's fame to protect them. And I don't think anyone saying this is specifically applying it to Tyson because of his skin color but it still contributes to the lovely lovely atmosphere around prisons.

It is extremely hard for me to get past my personal viewpoint on the issue for personal reasons, so I am not saying I don't empathize and understand the feelings behind it. But I loving *hate* the idea of 'prison' that society has built up where once you've entered prison you can never, ever, be anything but your crime and society is right to ostracize and exclude you even if you genuinely change yourself. And yes that requires empathy for people I despise but "have empathy for people I despise" is a necessity to wanting people to be treated like human beings.

I don't think there is a problem with someone being removed from society as punishment for crimes but I also think it should come with genuine attempts to try to make that person able to reenter society, not to line the pockets of the For-Profit Prison Industry, and creating a society where recidivism is encouraged and moving on is impossible so prisons get more free basically-slave labor contributes to that.

And obviously not a single loving bit of this applies to the many, many, many people in Hollywood who have raped and assaulted and get off with a slap on the wrist or are 'cancelled' in a completely meaningless way.

It's a good point. It's almost irreconcilable. Fundamentally I think it's because people's very internal and emotional feelings have been institutionalised into the justice system which means society doesn't get any better because "punish the bad people" is an emotional idea that doesn't solve anything. There's a wealth of evidence that rehabilitation over punishment is the way forward but it involves showing compassion for people which some are not willing to give, even if it would be better if they did. I hate the idea of the death penalty, I think it's abhorrent and when I have an argument with someone who is all for it their argument is always "if someone hurt or killed your family, wouldn't you want them dead", to which my answer has to be "probably". But that desire for retribution will not make anything better, the killer of my family should be helped to be better, not punished, even if I hate the idea. I think the part I bolded most resonates with me of your post because I do think it's the way forward, just a challenging one.

Karloff fucked around with this message at 04:47 on May 19, 2022

# ? May 19, 2022 04:44

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Karloff posted:

It's a good point. It's almost irreconcilable. Fundamentally I think it's because people's very internal and emotional feelings have been institutionalised into the justice system which means society doesn't get any better because "punish the bad people" is an emotional idea that doesn't solve anything. There's a wealth of evidence that rehabilitation over punishment is the way forward but it involves showing compassion for people which some are not willing to give, even if it would be better if they did. I hate the idea of the death penalty, I think it's abhorrent and when I have an argument with someone who is all for it their argument is always "if someone hurt or killed your family, wouldn't you want them dead", to which my answer has to be "probably". But that desire for retribution will not make anything better, the killer of my family should be helped to be better, not punished, even if I hate the idea. I think the part I bolded most resonates with me of your post because I do think it's the way forward, just a challenging one.

Also how much of that is strongly tied into society's pervasive and institutionalised racism, hatred for the poor, and overall caste system that's literally a thinly disguised substitute for chattel slavery. Look at how hard people go to bat for their faves, or politicians they don't even like but have it hammered into them they need for the latest Most Important Election Of Our Lives. Or the entirely mythical concept of law enforcement we're taught from birth by TV. You don't have a justice system.

# ? May 19, 2022 05:00

Schwarzwald: Jul 27, 2004; Don't Blink

The talk about shame also directly ties into the Depp/Heard trial poo poo, where the actual truth of the situation is clearly secondary to "who are we supposed to ritualistically hate?"

# ? May 19, 2022 05:42

YOLOsubmarine: Oct 19, 2004; When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."

ImpAtom posted:

So I think there's a bigger issue there. I am in the boat of thinking it is an absolutely abhorrent crime and I would not want anything to do with someone who committed it. I don't think it is wrong for anyone to feel that way on a personal level. (Especially if they are a victim.)

But I do think there is a problem with partaking in public shaming and ridicule for someone who has actually suffered consequences for their actions. Our society is already custom-tailored to make it nearly impossible for anyone who has ever committed a crime (especially black men) to get a chance to survive once they leave prison. I don't think anyone is obligated to like Mike Tyson on any level and he's isolated from the worst consequences by being famous.

But if you're going to hold the viewpoint of "this person is irrevocably tainted and can never again be treated as anything but" then it raises the question of what you think should happen. Should he be imprisoned forever? Exiled from society? Do you think he should have been put to death? Because the viewpoint of "We should never let people out of prison" or "They should be killed" is applied to black men a whole loving lot and not many of them have Mike Tyson's fame to protect them. And I don't think anyone saying this is specifically applying it to Tyson because of his skin color but it still contributes to the lovely lovely atmosphere around prisons.

It is extremely hard for me to get past my personal viewpoint on the issue for personal reasons, so I am not saying I don't empathize and understand the feelings behind it. But I loving *hate* the idea of 'prison' that society has built up where once you've entered prison you can never, ever, be anything but your crime and society is right to ostracize and exclude you even if you genuinely change yourself. And yes that requires empathy for people I despise but "have empathy for people I despise" is a necessity to wanting people to be treated like human beings.

I don't think there is a problem with someone being removed from society as punishment for crimes but I also think it should come with genuine attempts to try to make that person able to reenter society, not to line the pockets of the For-Profit Prison Industry, and creating a society where recidivism is encouraged and moving on is impossible so prisons get more free basically-slave labor contributes to that.

And obviously not a single loving bit of this applies to the many, many, many people in Hollywood who have raped and assaulted and get off with a slap on the wrist or are 'cancelled' in a completely meaningless way.

This is a good post.

# ? May 19, 2022 05:57

Lovely Joe Stalin: Jun 12, 2007; Our Lovely Wang

YOLOsubmarine posted:

This is all extremely silly. People should, as a rule, not punch people. But like all rules there are exceptions and sometimes it is necessary, even advisable, and if someone is in a situation where they feel unsafe they shouldn�t be too worried about an extremely freak occurrence to protect themselves in an extremely measured way. A punch is not deadly force.

You can absolutely kill a person with a single blow to the head, you should consider it lethal force the same way as you would consider tazing potentially lethal. Just because it is relatively low on the spectrum of things you can do that will kill a dude does not mean there isn't a very real chance they'll end up in the ground.

And if you hit someone in the head and they die, or are seriously injured resulting from that strike, you will absolutely be held accountable for the full penalty of the harm caused whether you intended to kill or cripple them, and whether or not you could tell from looking at them that they had a medical issue. That is the egg-shell skull rule I mentioned before.

Of course if you reasonably feel yourself to be in danger then obviously a proportional use of force in self-defence is not a criminal act, and is justified. However, from what we've seen of the incident I don't think Tyson would reasonably have felt he was in danger, and I absolutely do not think repeatedly striking a man in the head when he is off his feet is remotely justifiable. In fact it's something that would explicitly negate a legal claim of self-defence where I'm from. Because if he was a threat before the first punch was thrown then there's very little chance he could be considered so after it, given who was punching him.

As an aside, you're also a lot less likely to gently caress up your hand if you hit a part of the body that isn't all bone and teeth, so in general it's just a good idea not to punch people in the head even if you have to fight.

Snowman_McK posted:

There's a reason you chose this specific, quite awkward phrasing and if you know what it is, you also know why the people who disagree with you do so and it also means you can stop talking about it.

Perhaps I should have said "escalating a disturbance on a plane into a physical fight on a plane"? Perhaps in a thread where a lot of people are genuinely contributing to a discussion with differing viewpoints on an interesting and somewhat sensitive subject you should aspire to be one of them.

Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 06:45 on May 19, 2022

# ? May 19, 2022 06:43

Metis of the Chat Thread: Aug 1, 2014

John Wick of Dogs posted:

https://twitter.com/IwriteOK/status/1527005407935606790?t=HtstWAu5lrWe7fJFt9YVbw&s=19
https://twitter.com/mahoushoujoasha/status/1527027432481402880?t=pCrbCI6N2C9ebvw6L3fKbg&s=19
https://twitter.com/jesserca/status/1527033591305097217?t=BgcLvskAw3twSa7SFNtO0w&s=19

This so definitely happening to me as well and it is loving insidious. Someone is throwing serious botfarm cash to pump up this abusive piece of poo poo.

There's also this vice article on the youtubers turning the depp vs heard trial into #content which is incredibly depressing:

quote:

Another pro-Depp trial YouTuber who�s racked up millions of views said that before the trial, he had exactly 349 subscribers; today, he has more than 12,000. Mid-interview, the YouTuber told me he is 15 years old, and makes videos during the day because he�s homeschooled. (We have chosen not to link to his channel or name the content creator because he said he is a minor.)

�I watch some videos about the trial and then if I see anything out of the ordinary I upload about that,� he said, describing how he makes his videos. His most popular video has gotten millions of views; it�s a clip of Amber Heard seeming sad and angry during her testimony, with comedic music in the background and the occasional emoji pasted over it.

The 15-year-old said he started making YouTube videos about video games last year, but that when he saw Depp/Heard trial clips �blowing up on Youtube� he thought, �You know what, I could probably do this too.�

He found the trial interesting because, as he put it, �Johnny Depp. Jack Sparrow.� I asked what that meant, and he replied, �One of my favorite movie actors is part of a trial, it�s unexpected. It seems really interesting.� His sense of how the trial is going, he said, is �Johnny Depp is innocent. Because he�s cool.� Of Heard, he said, �She�s a turd,� adding, �I always thought that. She looks like one.�

He said his parents were �fine� and �happy� he was making these clips. His channel was just monetized recently, he said, which, if he is 15, would have meant, in theory, that a parent or guardian would have to sign up for a Google AdSense account, and that payments would go to that adult. (A followup email to the teen, asking to speak with his parents about their role in his channel, was not immediately returned.)

I'm sure some of it is bots, but a lot of it is very real people who just want attention.

My two cents re: Mike Tyson discussion is merely that it is kind of off putting to praise him in a thread specifically about sexual assault. Like, he did his time and hasn't reoffended and that's good, but I dunno maybe this isn't the right thread to get annoyed at people for remembering that he was convicted for rape? Maybe at this point the topic should move on?

Metis of the Chat Thread fucked around with this message at 06:46 on May 19, 2022

# ? May 19, 2022 06:43

MacheteZombie: Feb 4, 2007

Metis of the Hallways posted:

Maybe at this point the topic should move on?

Yes, the Mike Tyson chat is over, move on thread.

# ? May 19, 2022 07:06

MacheteZombie: Feb 4, 2007

Alan Smithee posted:

https://twitter.com/RomaniaDispatch/status/1526115296200777729?s=20&t=TLM1x-r9KKqC6agUhRkt7g

This is a pretty depressing read. The stats from the Eurobarometer study are eye opening.

# ? May 19, 2022 07:13

Mega Comrade: Apr 22, 2004; Listen buddy, we all got problems!

John Wick of Dogs posted:

This so definitely happening to me as well and it is loving insidious. Someone is throwing serious botfarm cash to pump up this abusive piece of poo poo.

I think people are underestimating how much money it would take to do this, major corporations and governments can't get this type of traction and they have far more money than Depp. I genuinely believe its just the popularity of the trial causing a feedback loop through the algorithms.

Look at the Crypto space, they pay billions through legitimate ad space and through illegal bot spamming to spread their ponzi scheme and even they don't have the social cache and awareness as this trial does. It's crazy.

Mega Comrade fucked around with this message at 08:48 on May 19, 2022

# ? May 19, 2022 08:41

Pyrotoad: Oct 24, 2010; Illegal Hen

I noticed twitch streamer Asmongold watching the trial yesterday, sitting comfortably at over 160k viewers which remained pretty constant whenever I checked back throughout the day - I have no idea if that's normal for him though. God knows how many other streamers are pulling similar views on twitch and youtube. And then you have tons of those people livetweeting, and their friends and followers interacting, or posting on reddit, or whatever their platform of choice is...

I fully believe that it's not bots, it's just that many people turning it into a meme or treating it like a TV show they can make gifs and fancams of. I think the same thing would be happening with any trial with massive public interest from history (eg: OJ Simpson trial) if it took place today, and we'll probably see something like this repeat if anyone popular with millennials/zoomers (eg, Benedict Cumberbatch) got accused of sexual assault.

Pyrotoad fucked around with this message at 09:15 on May 19, 2022

# ? May 19, 2022 09:12

Macdeo Lurjtux: Jul 5, 2011; BRRREADSTOOORRM!

He averages about 30k, though it's no surprise the trial jumps his viewership, depressing trash fire is kind of his brand.

The trial has exploded on twitch, it's hard to get exact numbers since it gets lumped in the softcore cam girls, but the category has doubled the next highest game in hours watched and average viewers over the last few weeks.

Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 14:54 on May 19, 2022

# ? May 19, 2022 14:49

emo-ignorance: Jun 12, 2020

In 2020, Bot Sentinel reported that there were bots stoking anti-Heard sentiment online. I don't doubt that it's still happening, but I think there has been a bit of a domino effect -- after a while, you don't need the bots because they've already convinced real people of Depp's story.

# ? May 19, 2022 15:58

Von Pluring: Sep 19, 2003; Zelensky's Zealots; Pork Pro

For what it's worth, I get zero Depp/Heard stuff on my youtube feed. Maybe that's gonna change after this post.

# ? May 19, 2022 16:04

thrawn527: Mar 27, 2004; Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Von Pluring posted:

For what it's worth, I get zero Depp/Heard stuff on my youtube feed. Maybe that's gonna change after this post.

It's especially annoying, because all the titles are stuff like, "Depp's lawyer DESTROYS Amber Heard on the stand!" and poo poo like that. I saw one yesterday that said, "Prosecutor PUTS AMBER HEARD IN HER PLACE!" Like, what the gently caress?

I haven't watched any of them, but there they all are.

IT'LL HAPPEN TO YOOOOUUUU!!!

# ? May 19, 2022 16:08

Famethrowa: Oct 5, 2012

we have a bloodthirsty vicious culture. I guess this was inevitable.

# ? May 19, 2022 16:16

weekly font: Dec 1, 2004; Everytime I try to fly I fall
Without my wings
I feel so small
Guess I need you baby...

It�s turning into politics and a lot of the people who are running those channels are the same kinds of people who look up to Ben Shapiro and his MANLET DESTROYS BLUE HAIRED SJW WITH LOGIC videos.

I will say, however, I think the slow burn trash fire nature of it has really pulled in a lot of people who don�t care about the idpol and are watching in the same way I remember OJ as a kid. I�m off for a while and I�ve had it on in the background after my mother was talking to me about it and I�m surprised how much of the case that�s being presented in the trial itself (not tainted by libertarian YT law commentary or CourtTV spin) is far different than anything I had read leading up to this.

# ? May 19, 2022 16:17

Chris James 2: Aug 9, 2012

thrawn527 posted:

It's especially annoying, because all the titles are stuff like, "Depp's lawyer DESTROYS Amber Heard on the stand!" and poo poo like that. I saw one yesterday that said, "Prosecutor PUTS AMBER HEARD IN HER PLACE!" Like, what the gently caress?

I haven't watched any of them, but there they all are.

IT'LL HAPPEN TO YOOOOUUUU!!!

And the still/preview images are always him being relaxed and a photo of her crying, occasionally with an emoji near it. It's disturbing and I'm sure it's already been mentioned before but it feels like they were just waiting to find a woman to do this to. Depp being friends with Manson also means Evan Rachel Wood is starting to get pursued by the same trolls/bots, to the point there's already people posting hashtags about wanting her kicked off Westworld for not being silent about her abuser

# ? May 19, 2022 16:45

Dr. Clockwork: Sep 9, 2011; I'LL PUT MY SCIENCE IN ALL OF YOU!

It took about two weeks for me to go from �wow, Johnny really was the abuse victim here� to �wow it�s really easy to manipulate public opinion through memes and clickbait videos�.

# ? May 19, 2022 16:54

El Gallinero Gros: Mar 17, 2010

Chris James 2 posted:

And the still/preview images are always him being relaxed and a photo of her crying, occasionally with an emoji near it. It's disturbing and I'm sure it's already been mentioned before but it feels like they were just waiting to find a woman to do this to. Depp being friends with Manson also means Evan Rachel Wood is starting to get pursued by the same trolls/bots, to the point there's already people posting hashtags about wanting her kicked off Westworld for not being silent about her abuser

Manson is suing her over the documentary she made and the legal accusations, too. This isn't stopping here.

# ? May 19, 2022 16:57

kliras: Mar 27, 2021

yes there are most likely bots and algos at work, but human nature and greed is also at work with everyone on twitch and youtube livewatching that stuff for content. it's loving sickening, regardless of what you think of either party in the trial

and then there are the memes, jesus christ

# ? May 19, 2022 17:29

pentyne: Nov 7, 2012

Its definitely bots and its also definitely the algorithm spotting trends and shoving it in the faces of the most tangentially related demographics.

I've seen Depp Heard stuff constantly in my YT feed for weeks, I keep clicking "never show me this" and I started seeing less but still some here and there.

It's the depressing reality of social media clicks and ad revenue. Everyone including the computer code is maximizing this story as anti Heard because that is what is driving the $$$

# ? May 19, 2022 19:17

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008; by Modern Video Games

Amber Heard�s big problem is she�s a much worse actor than Johnny D.

# ? May 19, 2022 20:24

weekly font: Dec 1, 2004; Everytime I try to fly I fall
Without my wings
I feel so small
Guess I need you baby...

Also the open admission to hitting him and saying �who would believe you, a man� on tape. They are both toxic assholes who ruined each other�s lives and careers but stuff like that is why you�re going to bring out the MRA types on the YT. Much like Rittenhouse it�s the perfect case for the worst people

# ? May 19, 2022 20:36

Cacator: Aug 6, 2005; You're quite good at turning me on.

porfiria posted:

Amber Heard’s big problem is she’s a much worse actor than Johnny D.

Yeah she had zero chemistry with Aquaman in Aquaman

# ? May 19, 2022 20:43

emo-ignorance: Jun 12, 2020

The full context of "who would believe that you, a man, had been abused" is that they were talking about all the times he beat the poo poo out of her. She said, "I thought you were going to kill me" and he says "Well I lost my finger." Source

# ? May 19, 2022 21:50

weekly font: Dec 1, 2004; Everytime I try to fly I fall
Without my wings
I feel so small
Guess I need you baby...

I�m not litigating anything here I�m explaining why this case is running up the score on YouTube

# ? May 19, 2022 22:59

ChickenOfTomorrow: Nov 11, 2012; god damn it, you've got to be kind

https://twitter.com/tysonbrody/status/1527422747139260416

# ? May 20, 2022 00:38

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Elon Musk appears to have a checklist of "be the worst person" traits and is going down each one individually.

# ? May 20, 2022 00:47

ruddiger: Jun 3, 2004

�30 year career� is an interesting way to look at inheriting a fortune.

# ? May 20, 2022 00:52

Metis of the Chat Thread: Aug 1, 2014

It's almost impressive how transparent Elon is when he tries to manipulate public opinion. Except for how it actually seems to work on some people, which just makes it all depressing.

# ? May 20, 2022 01:02

thrawn527: Mar 27, 2004; Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

https://twitter.com/spurtmagoo/status/1527426164813271040?s=21&t=19mfGYUpJ_3MDpST635OUA

# ? May 20, 2022 01:29

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Metis of the Hallways posted:

It's almost impressive how transparent Elon is when he tries to manipulate public opinion. Except for how it actually seems to work on some people, which just makes it all depressing.

A lot of people are very very invested in him being For Real Tony Stark.

# ? May 20, 2022 02:28

CPL593H: Oct 28, 2009; I know what you did last summer, and frankly I am displeased.

ImpAtom posted:

A lot of people are very very invested in him being For Real Tony Stark.

He did inherit his fortune from an amoral industry that destroys poor people in the global south. So there's that.

# ? May 20, 2022 03:13

AceOfFlames: Oct 9, 2012

ImpAtom posted:

A lot of people are very very invested in him being For Real Tony Stark.

Regular reminder that Stan Lee created Tony Stark as a challenge to see if he could turn the worst and most hated type of person of the 60s (a billionaire arms manufacturer), "shove him down [our] throats" and make him popular:

quote:

I think I gave myself a dare. It was the height of the Cold War. The readers, the young readers, if there was one thing they hated, it was war, it was the military ... So I got a hero who represented that to the hundredth degree. He was a weapons manufacturer, he was providing weapons for the Army, he was rich, he was an industrialist ... I thought it would be fun to take the kind of character that nobody would like, none of our readers would like, and shove him down their throats and make them like him ... And he became very popular.

AceOfFlames fucked around with this message at 05:51 on May 20, 2022

# ? May 20, 2022 05:46