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akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

hbag posted:

lol yea idk why i asked here

ylls isn’t any better

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The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


Stringent posted:

having a lol at ppl seeking fitness advice from yospos instead of ylls

it's not like they're going to listen anyway

hbag
Feb 13, 2021

The Fool posted:

it's not like they're going to listen anyway

what yes i am i hate how i look

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


history shows otherwise

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



wtf artichokes are pretty, look what happened to my side yard

hbag
Feb 13, 2021

The Fool posted:

history shows otherwise

as much as i would like it, i am not badly-written computer software

me not listening about programming is different to me not listening about how to improve my appearance

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.

Achmed Jones posted:

wtf artichokes are pretty, look what happened to my side yard



A house in my neighborhood used to plant artichokes as a decorative border plant and let them bloom and I always wanted to sneak over under cover of darkness and steal them before they opened up so I could eat them

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005

DEATH TO AMERICA
:xickos:

hbag posted:

as much as i would like it, i am not badly-written computer software

me not listening about programming is different to me not listening about how to improve my appearance

lok up two phrases to find the true path: "super squats" and "gomad"

thank me later

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
You know what really super squats my gomads? Airline food!

endlessmonotony
Nov 4, 2009

by Fritz the Horse

mystes posted:

I don't know

This is incredibly clear. All of akadajet's statements on the subject today are correct.

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


endlessmonotony posted:

This is incredibly clear. All of akadajet's statements on the subject today are correct.

I had to go back read the thread instead of skimming and yes, this

in fact, I don't even know how its a discussion in tyol 2022

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


hbag posted:

i mean im nonbinary (i think????) but idk if i want boobs

idk shits frustrating i don't like thinking about it

that’s perfectly okay! and sorry I def confused you with someone else

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

fart simpson posted:

lok up two phrases to find the true path: "super squats" and "gomad"

thank me later

gomad will give you super squarts and a huge gut

endlessmonotony
Nov 4, 2009

by Fritz the Horse
Now, most of the muscle benefit comes from the muscle helping to regulate your hormones and metabolism, which also has effects on your mood and appetite. (And when I got to rebuilding my muscle, the effect it had on making me eat healthier was dramatic. Way less sugar, way more plant-based protein. Of course I was expecting it to have an effect, and was prepared with suitable diet knowledge.)

But it does burn calories, and you can lose weight faster by doing both cardio and lifting, because that effect from larger muscles is small but meaningful, and more importantly is still there when you aren't lifting at the moment. Got to remember the numbers from exercise look small, but the human body isn't a furnace burning (or absorbing) all calories equally, and it's a lot more about changing the balance, and it takes way less to do that than people think.

mystes
May 31, 2006

endlessmonotony posted:

This is incredibly clear. All of akadajet's statements on the subject today are correct.
It's true that you increase your BMR a tiny bit from additional muscle. It's also true that that's not a significant reason for lifting weights because you would burn much more from cardio and you even burn much more (even though it's not as much as cardio) from the actual weightlifting.

I'm not sure there is actual evidence to support the idea that having additional muscle mass helps you maintain a caloric deficit without "starving yourself". First of all, the idea of "starving yourself" is something that is almost always completely misrepresented when normal people talk about dieting, including the idea of "starvation mode" at moderate caloric deficits which is basically 100% fictional.

If by "starving yourself" you're just talking about feeling slightly hungry, appetite is something that is incredibly complicated and affected by various hormones, and it is not necessarily the case that you can continue to eat the same amount and not feel hungry if you increase your caloric expenditure from exercise. The exact relationship between all these factors and how they relate to actionable advice for weight loss is not even really understood by current science.

I guess the reason we are still discussing this in 2022 is that basically everything people say about diet on the internet is just bro science, and even actual nutritional research tends to be dubious and not replicate.

I don't know why I'm even bothering to discuss this since everyone just "knows" that muscle burns tons of calories and isn't going to listen anyway.

mystes fucked around with this message at 18:04 on May 30, 2022

endlessmonotony
Nov 4, 2009

by Fritz the Horse

mystes posted:

It's true that you increase your BMR a tiny bit from additional muscle. It's also true that that's not a significant reason for lifting weights because you would burn much more from cardio and you even burn much more (even though it's not as much as cardio) from the actual weightlifting.

I'm not sure there is actual evidence to support the idea that having additional muscle mass helps you maintain a caloric deficit without "starving yourself". First of all, the idea of "starving yourself" is something that is almost always completely misrepresented when normal people talk about dieting, including the idea of "starvation mode" at moderate caloric deficits which is basically 100% fictional.

If by "starving yourself" you're just talking about feeling slightly hungry, appetite is something that is incredibly complicated and affected by various hormones, and it is not necessarily the case that you can continue to eat the same amount and not feel hungry if you increase your caloric expenditure from exercise. The exact relationship between all these factors and how they relate to actionable advice for weight loss is not even really understood by current science.

I guess the reason we are still discussing this in 2022 is that basically everything people say about diet on the internet is just bro science, and even actual nutritional research tends to be dubious and not replicate.

I don't know why I'm even bothering to discuss this since everyone just "knows" that muscle burns tons of calories and isn't going to listen anyway.

Is what you're saying here "I don't know much, and neither does anyone else, and that's why I can make authoritative statements about how lifting doesn't really help burn calories"?

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan


hbag just go read the beginner weightlifting thread in YLLS and more importantly, actually do the weight lifting instead of reading all the time

akadajet posted:

ylls isn’t any better

it's fine

mystes
May 31, 2006

endlessmonotony posted:

Is what you're saying here "I don't know much, and neither does anyone else, and that's why I can make authoritative statements about how lifting doesn't really help burn calories"?
An additional pound of muscle burns 6 calories per day. Unless you're insanely muscular, this isn't going to be significant.

There are also the actual calories burned from the weight lifting, and a short term increase in metabolic rate for 24-48 hours after weight lifting because the body is repairing the muscles, but when you're comparing weight lifting to cardio these amounts tend to be pretty low.

None of these things changes the fact that there are tons of other reasons to lift weights even if you aren't putting on lots of muscle (which most people aren't going to be doing).

mystes fucked around with this message at 18:13 on May 30, 2022

endlessmonotony
Nov 4, 2009

by Fritz the Horse

mystes posted:

An additional pound of muscle burns 6 calories per day. Unless you're insanely muscular, this isn't going to be significant.

Do tell me how large you think the average calorie surplus is.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

or, you know, don't

mystes
May 31, 2006

endlessmonotony posted:

Do tell me how large you think the average calorie surplus is.
If you are lifting weights enough to put on pounds of muscle, the increase in BMR is going to be insignificant compared to 1) the calories you burn from weight lifting directly and 2) any increases or decreases in food consumption and/or other activity resulting from weight lifting.

The muscle mass you put on from weight lifting also depends on how much you eat. It is hard to put on significant amounts of muscle mass without eating a caloric surplus and also gaining fat, which is why body builders do cycles where they build mass and then cut.

All together this means the idea that you should just lift weights because the increase in BMR will make you lose fat is extremely overly simplistic.

If you want to lose fat you should reduce how much you're eating and also lift weights to preserve muscle mass but you will not put on a significant amount of muscle at a caloric deficit and therefore not increase your BMR (also, fat also consumes calories, albeit at a lower rate than muscle, so by losing weight you will actually slightly decrease your BMR).

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

I’m about to go get some Mexican food and create a calorie surplus.

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


i'm making pancakes

MrQueasy
Nov 15, 2005

Probiot-ICK

akadajet posted:

I’m about to go get some Mexican food and create a calorie surplus.

there’s a fusion Mexican-Filipino place near me that does bacon wrapped chimichangas (with longanisa if you want)

hbag
Feb 13, 2021

oh god this sucks
hopefully it will suck less the more i do it

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

hbag posted:

oh god this sucks
hopefully it will suck less the more i do it

if you’re doing squats for the very first time then lol get ready for the next two weeks

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp
pls 301 to the big iron thread this isnt job talk

cjs: no j today. may make meatballs later.

Pythagoras a trois
Feb 19, 2004

I have a lot of points to make and I will make them later.

mystes posted:

If you want to lose fat you should reduce how much you're eating and also lift weights to preserve muscle mass but you will not put on a significant amount of muscle at a caloric deficit and therefore not increase your BMR (also, fat also consumes calories, albeit at a lower rate than muscle, so by losing weight you will actually slightly decrease your BMR).

move more eat less has a neglibible success rate, something like 3-5%. this is scientifically proven bad advice.

hbag
Feb 13, 2021

akadajet posted:

if you’re doing squats for the very first time then lol get ready for the next two weeks

i did like 5 just to get a feel for it because i have work tomorrow and need to be able to speedwalk between train connections

hbag
Feb 13, 2021

i would go to the gym but my mentally ill zoomer brain doesn't want other people i know irl to know that im making efforts to improve my body for some reason

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

RokosCockatrice posted:

move more eat less has a neglibible success rate, something like 3-5%. this is scientifically proven bad advice.

yeah it’s not easy to do. but I’ve had success doing it last time I wanted to lose weight. I used this app called Cronometer and just got my active calorie count from my Apple Watch

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

hbag posted:

i would go to the gym but my mentally ill zoomer brain doesn't want other people i know irl to know that im making efforts to improve my body for some reason

nobody in the gym cares about you at all unless you’re hogging a machine

Truman Peyote
Oct 11, 2006



i was pretty intimidated about going to the gym when i first started but in practice everybody just ignores each other when they're there. if you can somehow force yourself to try it, i think it would be worth it.

hbag
Feb 13, 2021

akadajet posted:

nobody in the gym cares about you at all unless you’re hogging a machine

i was talking about my family asking where im going because i never go anywhere so naturally they'd be curious

Truman Peyote
Oct 11, 2006



oh. probably best to lie and say you're going to an underground rave in that case

mystes
May 31, 2006

Tell them it's a lan party

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

RokosCockatrice posted:

move more eat less has a neglibible success rate, something like 3-5%. this is scientifically proven bad advice.

semaglutide has more like a 100% success rate

tiraglutide will lose you 20% of your weight when it comes out on market. its glp1 agonist, bariatric surgery, moving to an asian country or nothing

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

hbag posted:

i was talking about my family asking where im going because i never go anywhere so naturally they'd be curious

i used to tell my mom about my fitness progress and it got her to go get a personal trainer and she got in better shape

Pythagoras a trois
Feb 19, 2004

I have a lot of points to make and I will make them later.
it's pretty messed up, you can lift weights for thirty minutes and burn 200 to 300 calories, but that's a rounding error on the 2k-3k you burn in a day just to keep your organs running and filtering crap out of your blood. if you reduce your calories to 1700 a day, then your body will just do a worse job of filtering your blood and you'll feel like poo poo, it won't appreciably start burning more fat.

hbag posted:

i was talking about my family asking where im going because i never go anywhere so naturally they'd be curious

yeah that sucks. finding a comfortable way to say 'I'm not willing to disclose that information at this time' is difficult.

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Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp
EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM A VHS INTO THE SLOT. ITS CHRONICLES OF RIDDICK AND RIGHT THEN AND THERE I START DOING THE MOVES ALONGSIDE WITH THE MAIN CHARACTER, RIDDICK. I DO EVERY MOVE AND I DO EVERY MOVE HARD. MAKIN WHOOSHING SOUNDS WHEN I SLAM DOWN SOME NECRO BASTARDS OR EVEN WHEN I MESS UP TECHNIQUE. NOT MANY CAN SAY THEY ESCAPED THE GALAXYS MOST DANGEROUS PRISON. I CAN. I SAY IT AND I SAY IT OUTLOUD EVERYDAY TO PEOPLE IN MY COLLEGE CLASS AND ALL THEY DO IS PROVE PEOPLE IN COLLEGE CLASS CAN STILL BE IMMATURE JEKRS. AND IVE LEARNED ALL THE LINES AND IVE LEARNED HOW TO MAKE MYSELF AND MY APARTMENT LESS LONELY BY SHOUTING EM ALL. 2 HOURS INCLUDING WIND DOWN EVERY MORNIng

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