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Dans Macabre
Apr 24, 2004


Snipe me this pen.

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4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


work visas to japan should be open again, our new hire just recently moved to the tokyo hq

rakuten is probably the easiest entry point to working in japan still. the teams can be hit and miss, and there are some pants on head on fire situations occasionally, but so far i have enjoyed it

ymmv though as i relocated to europe 3 years ago and i still remember the hq being a super hectic open space hell (all big japanese companies are love that poo poo unfortunately). that said now i believe that its allowed to work from home a lot too

the situation in japan when i left was that most software shops had realized that oh gently caress we need an english speaking team. the reality of those teams is still that even though the working language is english, the senior management (and large parts of the company) will probably be japanese and there will be a massive culture shock and some conflicts no matter how many weeaboo wikipedia articles you have memorized

also dont learn japanese beyond drinks and food ordering unless you are mid management or above

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



4lokos basilisk posted:

also dont learn japanese beyond drinks and food ordering unless you are mid management or above

that seems odd. why would someone not want to learn the language of the country they live in?

Asymmetric POSTer
Aug 17, 2005

Achmed Jones posted:

that seems odd. why would someone not want to learn the language of the country they live in?

because as an expat you’ll build a social circle entirely of foreigners and foreigner loving groupies so you never have to feel invested in the country whatsoever? :confused:

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Achmed Jones posted:

that seems odd. why would someone not want to learn the language of the country they live in?

perhaps they meant don’t worry about it

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
or they mean "youre gonna hear racist poo poo so make sure you dont understand it"

which goes through pretty well for korea

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice
an annoying recruiter wouldn’t stop emailing me so i did my usual thing to shut them up where i ask for the position’s comp range and he came back with a low end of $550k (cash) so ok sure i’ll take that call

it sounds like some hellish algo quant shop but jesus

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan


raminasi posted:

an annoying recruiter wouldn’t stop emailing me so i did my usual thing to shut them up where i ask for the position’s comp range and he came back with a low end of $550k (cash) so ok sure i’ll take that call

it sounds like some hellish algo quant shop but jesus

lol

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



hobbesmaster posted:

perhaps they meant don’t worry about it

oh yeah that makes sense


bob dobbs is dead posted:

or they mean "youre gonna hear racist poo poo so make sure you dont understand it"

which goes through pretty well for korea

oof that's not the way i'd want to deal with that but to each their own i guess

ultravoices
May 10, 2004

You are about to embark on a great journey. Are you ready, my friend?
gently caress I smell a product owner role coming down the pipe and I have no idea how much more to ask for

a lot, because it would be twice as much work as i do now.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

Achmed Jones posted:

that seems odd. why would someone not want to learn the language of the country they live in?

also Japanese people like their foreigners to be foreign. if you start to acculturate then they will treat you like a Japanese person which you don’t want. better to enjoy your sovereign immunity from Japanese etiquette rules.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
as an example at my old company your Japanese colleagues would tell you to be vocal in your complaints about things that they didn’t like because as the gaijin you could complain openly to management. they called it the “gaijin smash”. if you acculturate you lose that privilege over time.

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park
tiktok recruiter reached out to me and I was like, "yeah I don't think I wanna work for a company that does 996 and won't explain why they're harvesting users' biometrics" and she was just like, "Yep, that's why it would be great to have a call so we could discuss!"

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
come on, they got objection handling pre-written for biometrics complaining and 996 complaining. they got some doc right there in a window by their dialler. 'if they say this then say that'. etc etc etc. sales 101

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

bob dobbs is dead posted:

come on, they got objection handling pre-written for biometrics complaining and 996 complaining. they got some doc right there in a window by their dialler. 'if they say this then say that'. etc etc etc. sales 101

I should have clarified they messaged me on LinkedIn...now my response is to just not respond. i'm definitely not setting up a call to discuss this further. if they won't tell the US Senate why they're harvesting biometrics, they're not going to spill the beans to me

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004


image text goes here

Achmed Jones posted:

that seems odd. why would someone not want to learn the language of the country they live in?

it's a lot of work. i was fortunate that i came over with my wife (japanese) and enough savings that i was able to spend my first 9 months or so going to a language school full time. had i not, i doubt i would have learned the language very well.

there's plenty of guys that have been here 40+ years and can't speak the language. it really takes a lot of work.

4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


Achmed Jones posted:

that seems odd. why would someone not want to learn the language of the country they live in?

1 its a lot of work

2 once you learn japanese, you also learn all the builtin social norms and whoops now you have to follow them all and you no longer get exceptions from being a dumb foreigner. this
basically means that if you are not in management, you now have to really learn how to career progress in the japanese way and each natural born local now has an advantage over you

i also know plenty of anecdotal examples where a fluent japanese speaker got shunned in the company no matter their actual skills in the work they did. if you’re a manager in that position you can lay down the law yourself

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004


image text goes here

4lokos basilisk posted:

2 once you learn japanese, you also learn all the builtin social norms and whoops now you have to follow them all and you no longer get exceptions from being a dumb foreigner. this
basically means that if you are not in management, you now have to really learn how to career progress in the japanese way and each natural born local now has an advantage over you

i also know plenty of anecdotal examples where a fluent japanese speaker got shunned in the company no matter their actual skills in the work they did. if you’re a manager in that position you can lay down the law yourself

none of this tracks with my personal experience, but it's a big country.

becoming fluent in japanese has only made living here better in my experience.

4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


Stringent posted:

none of this tracks with my personal experience, but it's a big country.

becoming fluent in japanese has only made living here better in my experience.

for everyday living, speaking japanese is a big plus no doubt

for work, it’s totally a mixed bag

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


clearly the answer is to learn it but play dumb at work

ultravoices
May 10, 2004

You are about to embark on a great journey. Are you ready, my friend?

distortion park posted:

clearly the answer is to learn it but play dumb at work

this is the key to success at many jobs.

a cyberpunk goose
May 21, 2007

i need to learn this lesson

ultravoices
May 10, 2004

You are about to embark on a great journey. Are you ready, my friend?
i give a++++ and i get AMAZING EXCEEDS EXPECTATIONS
i give that b- and i get AMAZING EXCEEDS EXPECTATIONS.

the difference between the two is in the latter i don't burn out in 18 months.

dioxazine
Oct 14, 2004

i learned that lesson early on in my performance reviews. though no matter how well or how poorly i did, i always got meets expectations

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

ultravoices posted:

i give a++++ and i get AMAZING EXCEEDS EXPECTATIONS
i give that b- and i get AMAZING EXCEEDS EXPECTATIONS.

the difference between the two is in the latter i don't burn out in 18 months.

If you're in a big company with a forced bell curve, the ratings are often a form of being equitable and dont really reflect performance as much as you think. They "balance" atta boys, raises and promotions to spread the love for ICs they dont want to leave. Note that "dont want to leave" means a B- or C player who meets expectations.

e.g.
underpenetrated salary, too early to promote, gets meets expectations and an 8% raise in a 2% COLA year
proper or overpenetrated salary, promotable, EXCEEDS EXPECTATIONS 1-2 years, then promotion following year OR gets out of cycle promotion and meets expectations for the next 2-3 years, regardless of performance
proper salary, too early to promote, exceeds expectations and mediocre raise


They'll use attaboys to pay you less and not promote you.


Not all companies are like this, and small companies generally are not like this. This is a big company forced bell curve thing I've seen or heard of time and time again.

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

I usually get really good performance reviews until very recently when I got a new manager with no development experience. I don’t think it’s my performance that’s changed. I’m also looking for something else now because it’s just been sucky for the last year or so, even if they pay is decent.

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
the cognitive dissonance of "we only hire the best" meeting stack ranking is always the funniest poo poo to me

a cyberpunk goose
May 21, 2007

I’ve whined about it too much in too many places but I solemnly swear to stop repeating my mistake of over performing on underperforming teams only to get slapped with “we are only allowed to give meets-expectations for your first year of employment” and get smushed right up against the upper pay bracket

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
I might just decline the calendar invitation to do an annual evaluation and see if I get away with it

outhole surfer
Mar 18, 2003

CPColin posted:

I might just decline the calendar invitation to do an annual evaluation and see if I get away with it

I once managed to avoid a week long "mandatory" employee orientation this way for nearly two years. I ended up taking it less than a month before I quit, mostly as a way to just chill for a week.

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

CPColin posted:

I might just decline the calendar invitation to do an annual evaluation and see if I get away with it

hah yea thatll show em

Corla Plankun
May 8, 2007

improve the lives of everyone

CPColin posted:

I might just decline the calendar invitation to do an annual evaluation and see if I get away with it

im gonna do this this year (unless i'm doing two jobs at once in which case i'll go and act normal to keep flying under the radar)

Not a Children
Oct 9, 2012

Don't need a holster if you never stop shooting.

CarForumPoster posted:

If you're in a big company with a forced bell curve, the ratings are often a form of being equitable and dont really reflect performance as much as you think. They "balance" atta boys, raises and promotions to spread the love for ICs they dont want to leave. Note that "dont want to leave" means a B- or C player who meets expectations.

e.g.
underpenetrated salary, too early to promote, gets meets expectations and an 8% raise in a 2% COLA year
proper or overpenetrated salary, promotable, EXCEEDS EXPECTATIONS 1-2 years, then promotion following year OR gets out of cycle promotion and meets expectations for the next 2-3 years, regardless of performance
proper salary, too early to promote, exceeds expectations and mediocre raise


They'll use attaboys to pay you less and not promote you.


Not all companies are like this, and small companies generally are not like this. This is a big company forced bell curve thing I've seen or heard of time and time again.

Yup, this is being enforced at my company. I negotiated an above-market salary when I joined a few years back and my employer seems to be pulling out all the stops to temper my salary to "normal" while I age into a promotion

I was told I couldn't get promoted this year because there were only so many promotions to go around. What a crock

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
the funny thing is that this happens to salespeeps where revenue is brutally directly attributable too. lotsa stories of firing the peeps who earned company 15 million to save 800k

champagne posting
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

dioxazine posted:

i learned that lesson early on in my performance reviews. though no matter how well or how poorly i did, i always got meets expectations

dont wanna risk having to consider giving you a raise

Fart Sandwiches
Apr 4, 2006

i never asked for this

Not a Children posted:

Yup, this is being enforced at my company. I negotiated an above-market salary when I joined a few years back and my employer seems to be pulling out all the stops to temper my salary to "normal" while I age into a promotion

I was told I couldn't get promoted this year because there were only so many promotions to go around. What a crock

this is how the military handles it. there’s literally only so many 5* (early promote) and 4* ( must promote) evals you can hand out, with everyone else getting 3 (promotable) or lower no matter what. then there’s only so many open positions at certain ranks and so you’re not even fighting for promotion on your ship, you’re fighting with the whole navy for your promote. then when you make it, you are in a probation period where you have the full rank and responsibility but not the pay! 6 months till then and if you gently caress up and get busted down, they base it off your pay so you effectively lose two ranks

don’t join the military

my last job the raises were so fuckin low. I mentioned it in my exit interview and the very nice hr lady was like yeah the raises and expensive benefits make it difficult to retain people. if you know, fix it!

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


i used to :jerkbag: to this take when i was younger but i'm now 100% convinced it's actually true: it's not about optimizing the company's performance and making money. it's about maintaining control and not letting any of the workers start getting ideas / believing they have any power

i've personally been in a discussion in a company where i could either save or earn them several times what i was asking for only to be denied too many times to ignore the phenomenon. particularly in my last job hop where i talked to multiple companies that kept permanent consultants from our company on board for over half a million per, but they refused to pay an extra couple $10ks when i was negotiating with them and my hire would directly save them hundreds of thousands. it's not about the money. it's about solidarity with the rest of the capitalist class

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

PIZZA.BAT posted:

i used to :jerkbag: to this take when i was younger but i'm now 100% convinced it's actually true: it's not about optimizing the company's performance and making money. it's about maintaining control and not letting any of the workers start getting ideas / believing they have any power

i've personally been in a discussion in a company where i could either save or earn them several times what i was asking for only to be denied too many times to ignore the phenomenon. particularly in my last job hop where i talked to multiple companies that kept permanent consultants from our company on board for over half a million per, but they refused to pay an extra couple $10ks when i was negotiating with them and my hire would directly save them hundreds of thousands. it's not about the money. it's about solidarity with the rest of the capitalist class

you're 100% convinced of something that is incorrect

also lol at trying to pitch in an interview saving multiple $100ks more than the other candidates....dude you prob dont even know the deets of the job theyre hiring you for

and if you're an IC without internal knowledge of the costs of their systems I struggle to imagine how you could make that claim with sufficient knowledge of the cost of implementing whatever changes you want to make are

CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 14:02 on May 31, 2022

i am a moron
Nov 12, 2020

"I think if there’s one thing we can all agree on it’s that Penn State and Michigan both suck and are garbage and it’s hilarious Michigan fans are freaking out thinking this is their natty window when they can’t even beat a B12 team in the playoffs lmao"

CarForumPoster posted:

you're 100% convinced of something that is incorrect

:lol::lol:

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i am a moron
Nov 12, 2020

"I think if there’s one thing we can all agree on it’s that Penn State and Michigan both suck and are garbage and it’s hilarious Michigan fans are freaking out thinking this is their natty window when they can’t even beat a B12 team in the playoffs lmao"
Like dude those consultants don't have retirement packages and poo poo and are funded differently, if someone was trying to get hired quoting those numbers I would laugh them out of the building. it also sounds like you were being extremely unethical using that knowledge in negotiations and you used it wrong lmao

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