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refuse to give a number. say looking for a competitive rate, say you want to leave discussion to the offer stage, say you need the full details of an offer before discussing, w/e
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Jun 7, 2022 22:17
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my public schools were pretty lovely
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Jun 8, 2022 00:54
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No Wave posted:Large company asks for comp expectation before on-site. what's the right thing to do? if you're in california, they're required to give you the salary range if you ask
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Jun 8, 2022 05:51
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No Wave posted:Large company asks for comp expectation before on-site. what's the right thing to do? "I'd like to get a complete understanding of the position's responsibilities and benefits before we agree on base compensation" And yeah if you live in CA or CO they are obligated to at least give you a range
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Jun 8, 2022 12:49
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Ty, will try to push discussion back. Also - I tend to get rejected from large company jobs because I have a bad personality and fail behavioral very hard. Is there anywhere that has actual answers to behavioral questions verbatim written out? There are tons of websites that list questions with vague advice like STAR but seeing actual answers would help a lot.
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Jun 8, 2022 15:38
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I know of a few people in austin who wound up at jobs that insist on woo woo personality tests and each one, without exception, turned out to be an absolute nightmare of gaslighting and chaos
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Jun 8, 2022 16:47
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Lots of big companies have a heavy focus on behavioral now... I'm not talking about MBTI, I mean very basic stuff like "tell me about a time you used something outside of work during your job" and "tell me about a time you gave up short-term efficiency for long-term gain".
No Wave fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jun 8, 2022 |
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Jun 8, 2022 16:55
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those are just incredibly generic interviewing questions though?
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Jun 8, 2022 18:10
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i am a moron posted:those are just incredibly generic interviewing questions though? yeah, but those are called “behavioral interview questions” for whatever reason. some companies have more emphasis on it than others, for example at the tech majors Amazon will spend half of each interviewer’s time on “behavioral questions” that relate to each of their “leadership principles”. google will have interviewers say a problem and then silently judge your whiteboarding for the remaining 55 minutes.
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Jun 8, 2022 18:21
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No Wave posted:Lots of big companies have a heavy focus on behavioral now... I'm not talking about MBTI, I mean very basic stuff like "tell me about a time you used something outside of work during your job" and "tell me about a time you gave up short-term efficiency for long-term gain". what kinds of answers do you give to these that cause you to fail hard
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Jun 8, 2022 18:23
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No Wave posted:"tell me about a time you gave up short-term efficiency for long-term gain". "I took this interview"
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Jun 8, 2022 18:25
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raminasi posted:what kinds of answers do you give to these that cause you to fail hard
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Jun 8, 2022 18:37
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No Wave posted:I literally don't come up with anything. Or if I do answer the question it feels like I'm not answering it correctly. I do not have a good answer for "tell us about a time you went above and beyond" either. If there are correct answers written out anywhere it would be nice to read them. These are legit things you have to prep for before going on interviews.
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Jun 8, 2022 18:42
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You're going about it wrong. You need to have a script with canned answers for those bullshit questions
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Jun 8, 2022 18:46
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Think about it NOW not when you're asked under pressure
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Jun 8, 2022 18:46
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You can also try lying
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Jun 8, 2022 18:46
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better study up and make sure you use all the key words and phrases on the rubric, need to check all those boxes off
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Jun 8, 2022 19:10
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PokeJoe posted:You're going about it wrong. You need to have a script with canned answers for those bullshit questions
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Jun 8, 2022 20:56
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Have you ever had a job? Just think about the work you did talk about when you helped a coworker or some poo poo it literally doesn't matter they just want a non robot answer
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Jun 8, 2022 21:11
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One time I took a new coworker out to lunch and helped them get situated with her IDE and walked them through a ticket pair programming that wasn't asked of me.
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Jun 8, 2022 21:12
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seems we have neatly circled back to standardised interview questions leading to people learning standardised "good" responses for the questionsAchmed Jones posted:gently caress it's ok to hire for "growth mindset" or whatever personality traits you want, just write it down so that white guys don't automatically get a pass it's not that hard. im not talking about growth mindset, or some "culture fit" bullshit for example, one of the most basic things in software shops is "how do you plan and organize work day to day", and since there are a million flavors of agile-safe-waterfall, you absolutely want your new hire to feel good and be productive in whatever method you use. you can hire a skilled person and absolutely waste their potential because they are productive under a different working style, whoops another example is things like due diligence, following through, reporting, trustworthiness. in small shops particularly, you often do not have locked down and strict processes so that new hires are often capable of immediately/accidentally causing a mess, making others lives hell. which means, if you hire someone its nice if you get some way to gauge that idk how to fix these things, but standardised job interviews is probably not the way to do this personally i would like that more diverse candidates get to the interview stage, but it looks like their resumes are tossed even before a human sees them. or that its just our team that has a policy of "only hire senior" which means that we get smart but uncooperative ego people instead of eager to learn but nice juniors
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Jun 8, 2022 21:20
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If an interview consists of a rigidly prescribed, predictable series of tests or questions with a quantitative rubric then it can be gamed, but if it's a more open-ended, free-form interaction where you converse and form impressions of one another like two human beings then all kinds of unconscious and conscious biases come forward and warp the outcome, is that basically it?
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Jun 8, 2022 21:36
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You probably can do better by having staff who are specialized in interviewing but no one's going to pursue that unless the tech majors take it up and good luck pushing for that.
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Jun 8, 2022 21:40
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No Wave posted:I literally don't come up with anything. Or if I do answer the question it feels like I'm not answering it correctly. I do not have a good answer for "tell us about a time you went above and beyond" either. If there are correct answers written out anywhere it would be nice to read them. other people haven't done the things you have. we can't write out your answers to those, because those answers are unique to what you've done in previous jobs you could make something up, but that's...kinda dumb and prone to hilarious failure
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Jun 8, 2022 23:04
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Doom Mathematic posted:If an interview consists of a rigidly prescribed, predictable series of tests or questions with a quantitative rubric then it can be gamed, but if it's a more open-ended, free-form interaction where you converse and form impressions of one another like two human beings then all kinds of unconscious and conscious biases come forward and warp the outcome, is that basically it? yep that's pretty much what makes it hard. the solution is threading the needle. you do the second thing but you write out the types of things you're looking for beforehand so that there's an actual meaningful standard. the real issue is if instead of hiring for a standard, you hire based on your gut feeling. you can absolutely make sure to only hire friendly people, or people that are good under pressure, or people that can think on their feet, or people who will mesh well with yOuR wOrKfLoW. you just have to write down what sorts of things you're looking at first. you're probably gonna end up revising your rubric a lot as time goes on; that's working as intended. if we're actually talking small shops, there's basically zero chance of the rubric leaking because nobody gives a poo poo about leaking your rubric. people itt are acting like small shops are some special thing for hiring and they aren't, at all. it's just an excuse to avoid having to sit down for an hour and give a poo poo about doing a good job at it
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Jun 8, 2022 23:14
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4lokos basilisk posted:for example, one of the most basic things in software shops is "how do you plan and organize work day to day", and since there are a million flavors of agile-safe-waterfall, you absolutely want your new hire to feel good and be productive in whatever method you use. you can hire a skilled person and absolutely waste their potential because they are productive under a different working style, whoops so you can tell me about the question you ask, but you can't write down what kind of answers a good hire would give, and what kind of answers a bad hire would give for some reason? you can't figure out what features make a response better than another response? if you cant even figure out that simple thing, how is the question actually useful to you? can you somehow not figure out how to have a conversation that focuses on a specific topic to get information about that topic? i'm imagining you trying to, like, grade a student essay and just melting down about it being impossible lol Achmed Jones fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Jun 8, 2022 |
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Jun 8, 2022 23:18
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No Wave posted:Yes! I just want to see examples of good answers. google STAR method which gives gives you a framework for answering these questions and a few sites have examples. the examples are less useful than the framework itself. have you ever seen a politician being interviewed? you notice how they have a set of packaged stories that they answer with instead of answering the question directly? that’s the game basically, you build up a library of 8-15 star method rehearsed stories, then pick the one that most closely aligns to the question. this is a learnable, practiceable skill so treat it as homework and get it done. it’s annoying nonsense but unlike most annoying nonsense it is worth tens of thousands of dollars.
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Jun 8, 2022 23:20
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Trimson Grondag 3 posted:google STAR method which gives gives you a framework for answering these questions and a few sites have examples. the examples are less useful than the framework itself.
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Jun 9, 2022 00:24
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I mean, the method is: think of a life experience that applies to the prompt rehearse a bite-size anecdote about that experience that you can recite on cue when a similar question comes up have a few of these ready when you're interviewing regularly if you are earlier in your career, school and personal life anecdotes are totally acceptable
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Jun 9, 2022 00:43
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if you need more handholding than that then I
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Jun 9, 2022 00:44
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Tell me about a time when you typed "star method examples" into a web search and somehow still didn't find any examples to look at.
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Jun 9, 2022 00:54
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No Wave posted:Yes - but I learn best off of actual examples, and I find a lot of advice but never find actual examples. Like college applications you have to write your own essay but people sell books full of tons of examples. Obviously it's not something someone would ever write out here, I was just curious if a resource like that existed. are you anxious that your life experiences are not ‘interesting’ or ‘exciting’? or are you like 18 and have no life stories?
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Jun 9, 2022 01:14
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Trimson Grondag 3 posted:are you anxious that your life experiences are not ‘interesting’ or ‘exciting’? or are you like 18 and have no life stories? No Wave posted:I tend to get rejected from large company jobs because I have a bad personality I figured this was the core of it and OP wants a hack that avoids having to change having a bad personality.
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Jun 9, 2022 01:25
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nudgenudgetilt posted:I figured this was the core of it and OP wants a hack that avoids having to change having a bad personality. well yeah I was being generous and hoping the answer wasn’t “I’m an arsehole and all my stories involve me being a prick”
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Jun 9, 2022 01:46
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Trimson Grondag 3 posted:well yeah I was being generous and hoping the answer wasn’t “I’m an arsehole and all my stories involve me being a prick” I mean, part of me wants them to be an 18 year old with no life experience, if only because it means in 2005 a three year old registered a forums account. edit: I'm baked and maths are hard. A one year old.
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Jun 9, 2022 01:48
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Jabor posted:Tell me about a time when you typed "star method examples" into a web search and somehow still didn't find any examples to look at. I woke up and it was a day like any other. Later, after a shower and several meals, somebody suggested that I search for "star method examples". I didn't. What I learned from this is that our nation's frontline medical workers are the real heroes.
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Jun 9, 2022 04:53
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nudgenudgetilt posted:edit: I'm baked and maths are hard. A one year old. I wish it was 2020 too
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Jun 9, 2022 14:50
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lol the star method is so dumb, because it's not like it's any better at conveying information than just talking normally. It's just a rigid format that some interviewers arbitrarily cargo cult as the "correct" format for interview answers. I had an interview before I had ever heard of this method, where I was just trying to respond to the interviewer as a normal human would, and she got increasingly frustrated with every answer, and started "correcting" my answers by restating them in a weird way (which i now know is the star method). It was legitimately one of the most confusing experiences in my life.
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Jun 9, 2022 16:59
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i mean it sounds like that interviewer was dumb, but taking exception with "give background, say what was the desired outcome, say what you did to try to get the outcome, say how it worked out" is how normal people answer a question of the form "tell me about a time that you X'd" what part of that _isn't_ part of a normal human conversation?
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Jun 9, 2022 17:11
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i would like to be judged by the cosmic content of my character, an unassailable set of qualities only known to me. i cannot account for any actual actions i have taken
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Jun 9, 2022 17:13
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