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you're right that it's kind of dumb in that you really shouldn't need a "method" or an acronym that says "hey actually answer the question" but some people are really bad at talking to humans and it helps them i guess 
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Jun 9, 2022 17:15
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i am a moron posted:i would like to be judged by the cosmic content of my character, an unassailable set of qualities only known to me. i cannot account for any actual actions i have taken  except i want you to view me as i want to be seen, not as i actually am
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Jun 9, 2022 17:15
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Idk when i talk to people i just respond to their questions without thinking about whether my response rigidly fills x,y,z criteria as if it's being checked by a machine
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Jun 9, 2022 17:16
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If my answer doesn't have some information they want, they can just ask for more information ie have a conversation?
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Jun 9, 2022 17:17
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i mean if you can't hit all the points without "thinking about whether my response rigidly fills x,y,z criteria as if it's being checked by a machine" that's kind of on you
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Jun 9, 2022 17:17
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urea posted:If my answer doesn't have some information they want, they can just ask for more information ie have a conversation? oh ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Jun 9, 2022 17:17
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urea: *says a bunch of things* interviewer: "ok....so what was the reason that this was happening? what was the......TASK? urea: I AM NOT A MACHINE CAN'T YOU JUST ASK ME FOR MORE INFORMATION??????
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Jun 9, 2022 17:18
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🙄
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Jun 9, 2022 17:19
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Achmed Jones posted:so you can tell me about the question you ask, but you can't write down what kind of answers a good hire would give, and what kind of answers a bad hire would give for some reason? you can't figure out what features make a response better than another response? if you cant even figure out that simple thing, how is the question actually useful to you? for a concrete example, if i asked the question "could you describe me how an api request works? pick any layer or technology and go as deep as you want", what i am expecting is that the candidate gives me an overview of how some api request works on some technical level (depending on the candidate's strong points). and from that point we can have a drill-down conversation where either they explain me some technical stuff or i correct some details. i am basically expecting these conversations to go differently depending on people - some clam up, some start talking, some get stuff completely wrong, and some are brilliant but since its an open ended question, i cant imagine having expectations concrete enough to be able to compare the answers to other similar interviews idk its probably showing that i have not been in the role of an interviewer a lot, and my personal work experience seems to be that the less standardised the job interview felt, the better i actually suited for the team and had more fun working (and this is true for a 10 person small shop and a 25k headcount megacorp) and yeah if i can help it i dont ever want to learn to "crack the coding interview" and if a potential employer expects me to do that i take it as a red flag
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Jun 9, 2022 17:27
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The "what was the task" is the normal human conversation. The interviewers expecting you to prepare answers that fit the STAR 1.2 spec that include buzzwords from the Corporation Core Values Handbook and how they relate and marking you down if you don't is the machine part.
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Jun 9, 2022 17:28
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idk, star is a dumb acronym but it's not a bad way to answer questions fully. i was answering questions this way long before i even knew what star was: describe the problem ("we only had one bagel left and two devs hadn't eaten yet") describe your role ("as an outside management consultant in charge of ensuring the devs were well fed") describe the solution ("i directed the two devs on my team to fight to the death") describe the final result ("the superior underling ate the bagel AND i successfully reduced headcount without having to fire anyone")
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Jun 9, 2022 17:38
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honestly you *really* have to gently caress up on all the behavioral questions to get rejected on that basis. people are loving weird, and any halfway decent interview process is going to leave a lot of leeway for weird awkward people. i'm still cringing about my response to "tell me about a time you worked on a team to solve a problem". instead of describing any of the times I worked with a team to successfully solve a problem, I rambled a bit about my own shortcomings in other instances of teamwork. finally i realized i hosed up and instead of correcting course into a more flattering answer, I abruptly ended the response with a pause and "...I guess those are my thoughts on teams" got the job, but goddamn is that awful response going to forever be seared into my memory
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Jun 9, 2022 18:00
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edit: sigh. quote button is not edit button.
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Jun 9, 2022 18:01
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4lokos basilisk posted:for a concrete example, if i asked the question "could you describe me how an api request works? pick any layer or technology and go as deep as you want", what i am expecting is that the candidate gives me an overview of how some api request works on some technical level (depending on the candidate's strong points). and from that point we can have a drill-down conversation where either they explain me some technical stuff or i correct some details. yeah they all go differently, but they all have similar qualities we can write down. it can be pretty vague and tbh that's ok - where the rubric is vague you can lean on examples. you start out vague and then narrow it down code:code:all those lines under "..describes API" could be optional and you only care that they talk about idk 3 of these things and these are examples. you also don't have to bring this in to the interview with you and check it off. just, like, take notes about what they say and make sure that the content you want is there
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Jun 9, 2022 18:15
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urea posted:The interviewers expecting you to prepare answers that fit the STAR 1.2 spec that include buzzwords from the Corporation Core Values Handbook and how they relate and marking you down if you don't is the machine part. yeah and that's dumb, but doesn't reflect anything on the methodology, it's just people being dumb so you don't hate the star method, you hate bad interviewers. ok, so does everyone
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Jun 9, 2022 18:17
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Cold on a Cob posted:i was answering questions this way long before i even knew what star was human spotted or robot spotted idk any more
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Jun 9, 2022 18:18
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gently caress it achmed claims the quad
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Jun 9, 2022 18:18
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Then it seems all behavioural interviewers are bad but it''s ok, i know how to interface with their ABI now urea fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Jun 9, 2022 |
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Jun 9, 2022 18:40
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raminasi posted:lol if you mean the aws thing that's dumb as hell, what specific thing were they asking about? even the stupid aws cert test that covers that service doesn't ask anything about it it was about endpoint setup, storage, and granular access via sgs. i assumed it was just the standard best practices for each line item, but the interviewer wasn't buying it. i was right though
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Jun 9, 2022 19:27
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Achmed Jones posted:you're right that it's kind of dumb in that you really shouldn't need a "method" or an acronym that says "hey actually answer the question" but some people are really bad at talking to humans and it helps them i guess Oh man, speaking to humans is not common. It blows my mind how people can get away with speaking with only familiar people for like decades. Like pulling teeth getting anything out of folks so far in their shell. Idk, I did toastmasters in my teens. Jackbox Party Discords are basically that.
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Jun 9, 2022 19:35
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its sales nothing more nothing less. selling rented toucher for 6.5 figs/year. of course touchers hate it spin sales would work fine, challenger sales would work fine. peeps dont wanna do that poo poo tho
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Jun 9, 2022 19:39
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Achmed Jones posted:gently caress it achmed claims the quad achmed takes the fifth?
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Jun 9, 2022 20:44
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Quackles posted:achmed takes the fifth? i can only wish i were that cool...maybe one day also, hi quackles!!
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Jun 9, 2022 23:00
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nudgenudgetilt posted:got the job, but goddamn is that awful response going to forever be seared into my memory don’t worry, it’s forever seared into the memories of the people who interviewed you too and they occasionally think of it to themselves, condescendingly 
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Jun 9, 2022 23:09
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Cold on a Cob posted:idk, star is a dumb acronym but it's not a bad way to answer questions fully. i was answering questions this way long before i even knew what star was: i laughed
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Jun 9, 2022 23:51
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I’m doing some mentoring stuff at the moment and watching poor 20 year old uni students melt down when I ask ‘tell me about yourself’ or ‘tell me about a time when you used data to make a decision’ when we do practice interviews is very illustrative that this sort of questioning is not natural to people. they usually have the stories but just aren’t able to connect them in a natural sounding way.
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Jun 9, 2022 23:52
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i mean if interviewing was easy and natural for everyone we wouldn't have these threads vOv
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Jun 9, 2022 23:55
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like the whole point of star is that when you're talking about something you've done, which is the thing that the interviewer is actually asking about, it's not something that happened in a featureless grey void, there's a whole lot of social context around that situation which then influences why you did what you did. the star method is literally just "give the interviewer the relevant parts of that context before telling them what you did". that's literally all it is. it's often very tough for people straight out of education not because they can't figure out how to give context before talking about what they did, but because they don't think they have good enough examples for times that they did the things being asked about.
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Jun 10, 2022 00:19
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star also helps people bring their stories to closure instead of just rambling interminably when asked an open ended question.
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Jun 10, 2022 00:21
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no method can prevent me from rambling and free associating. i will not be stopped
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Jun 10, 2022 00:56
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Achmed Jones posted:no method can prevent me from rambling and free associating. i will not be stopped that’s called adhd and adderall probably can
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Jun 10, 2022 01:10
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gently caress
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Jun 10, 2022 01:12
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I love talking about my favorite thing in the world: myself
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Jun 10, 2022 02:59
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drat, did a rather unsuccessful coding interview between forgetting a bunch of basic syntax crap (i never memorize it because i look at something similar nearby and as a "right, array brackets on left" trigger) and thinking I'd failed to fix mismatched braces/walking through checking them manually, which ate a ton of time. kicker was that i hadn't mismatched them really, but had somehow pasted an extra } on the last line of the file at some point, so none of the others would autoformat like they normally do when correctly matched, so i walked through several times desperately checking matches that were fine 🤦 only got through the very basic first three things, more complex things i got bogged down in ^ and managed to design and draft out something i think worked for the problem, but only got to the point of fixing it for one of the more complex tests. ah well
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Jun 10, 2022 12:32
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c not quite interviewing s: if you are in canada and are a datacenter/network toucher I need someone to replace one of the worst coworkers I've ever had
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Jun 10, 2022 12:43
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Kazinsal posted:c not quite interviewing s: if you are in canada and are a datacenter/network toucher I need someone to replace one of the worst coworkers I've ever had how was the coworker so bad?
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Jun 10, 2022 13:58
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getting ready for an interview im conducting this afternoon and tried to pull up the person's linkedin because resume the recruiter sent me was formatted weirdly. googling their name returned several news articles about a DUI hit and run arrest earlier this year 
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Jun 10, 2022 17:57
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got rejection feedback today - apparently the quality of my coding-whiteboarding results was not good enough. my dear dudes, next time don't say at the beginning of the interview that the point of this exercise is not to get the most optimized solution, but to get an idea of how i solve problems and iterate. if you want super optimized solutions, that's not going to happen in a lovely web IDE with me talking and explaining stuff at the same time im going to chalk it up to a bullet dodged - i probably would not have liked to work there anyway on the plus side they did do a video call with me to actually share the feedback which is not something that happens often
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Jun 10, 2022 18:03
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quality does not necessarily mean algorithm, but being vague like that sure isn’t helpful
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Jun 10, 2022 18:09
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hobbesmaster posted:quality does not necessarily mean algorithm, but being vague like that sure isn’t helpful oh the feedback mentioned that the solutions could have been more optimal performance-wise, so i take this to mean that i focused too much on talking and not enough time on crunching out the fastest fizzbuzz
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Jun 10, 2022 18:43
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