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I always saw the "just as planned" stuff with the Light being them unwilling to admit they lost. They're covering for their failures and setbacks by pretending like it's no big deal, they didn't need that anyway, all their grand plans are in no way at risk from these meddling kids. They stake everything on the "bigger picture" and then the bigger picture fails as well, mostly because of all those small details adding up.
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May 6, 2022 11:06
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Man. Young Justice fuckin sucks. I'm afraid to go rewatch the first season and realize it's been poo poo the whole time
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May 10, 2022 04:38
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It totally whelms.
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May 10, 2022 05:14
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drrockso20 posted:So apparently Green Lantern TAS is now part of the Young Justice universe Abroham Lincoln posted:I've been trying to keep up with Young Justice but I cannot for the life of me figure out who this show is being made for anymore Just like the comics 
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May 10, 2022 05:44
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I'm arguably a huge Greg fanboy. I adore Gargoyles and wish we got more, and I loved the gently caress out of season 1 of Young Justice and thought it was incredible from start to finish. I like his serialized storytelling and a lot of his quirks and characteristics as a writer. I still bounced hard off of season 2 of YJ. Too many characters, not enough time to shine, and the cast I fell in love with and really liked the first time around is largely in the background. Considering how good he is at serialization and all that, it's even more baffling that he did a timeskip. Show, don't tell, the passage of time. EDIT: Like if part of your story's basic premise and appeal is 'watch these young characters mature and grow into their own' I feel like a timeskip is obviously something you should not consider from the start. Timeskips are something you do when you don't want to have to take the time to show a character growing and maturing. RoboChrist 9000 fucked around with this message at 06:02 on May 10, 2022 |
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May 10, 2022 05:58
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It does feel like Weisman had somebody who helped him on shows like Gargoyles that's gone now. His Gary Kurtz if you will.
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May 10, 2022 12:46
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IIRC the time skip between season one and two was supposed to be part of this thing where they were going to release a tie in game to fill in the blanks. But then the game had development issues and ended up massively delayed so that didn't exactly work. I do agree that it was a weird choice to do the time skip in the first place. You liked this cast? Well most of them are gone.
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May 10, 2022 13:42
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muscles like this! posted:IIRC the time skip between season one and two was supposed to be part of this thing where they were going to release a tie in game to fill in the blanks. But then the game had development issues and ended up massively delayed so that didn't exactly work. This was 8 years after everyone hated how they did the same thing with the Matrix sequels. Even if it had worked out perfectly it's a terrible idea. I shouldn't have to buy, and then beat, a video game to know what happened in between seasons of a tv show. Look at the achievements of any video game and the percentage of people who get the one you get for beating the game on any difficulty, it's almost no one.
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May 10, 2022 20:54
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Dawgstar posted:It does feel like Weisman had somebody who helped him on shows like Gargoyles that's gone now. His Gary Kurtz if you will. I don't know if there's anyone who fits that role? Or who worked on Gargoyles that also worked on other shows Weisman did that are considered good like Spectacular Spider-Man. I think this was always a part of him - if you look at the plans he had for SSM it was this elaborate like five year plan with already detailed story arcs and character relationships and it just sounded like the show would become a slog of drama.
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May 10, 2022 21:00
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I think part of why Gargoyles avoided that issue(both in the show proper and what we know of what Greg wanted to do if he could do more) because with it the plan was instead to do a metric crapload of spinoffs since Jeffrey Katzenberg* had wanted Disney to have its own Superhero universe to compete with DC and Marvel, which is why a large chunk of the "Avalon World Tour" during Season 2 is basically a whole bunch of Backdoor Pilots done one after another *his leaving Disney in 1994 ended up launching a torpedo at those plans and is a big part of why Greg got fired from the show early in Season 3's production
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May 10, 2022 21:16
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Some things Gargoyles had going for it was that it was a fun weird premise and even though it was planning to push boundaries, it was still shackled to the idea that it was a children's cartoon in the 90s, so it had to keep some fun and silliness. Young Justice was taking a premise from a decade earlier which itself was a copy of a premise going all the way back to the 60s, and it had the ambition to push boundaries in dramatic storytelling in a world where dramatic cartoons were already fairly common and the original premise had already gone through all this boundary-pushing drama all the way back in the 80s. There was almost nothing the show could do to distinguish itself among all the other shows out on the market at the time, and there was barely anything it could do to distinguish itself from the original as "this is now the adult version" because the original already did that, but the show chose to try anyways and I think regardless of your overall opinion of the show, it failed. It's not something new or unique in its genre, network, or even IP. It just lacks any self-awareness or sense of fun to offset the drama.
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May 10, 2022 21:35
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All I know is I liked/loved Gargoyles and Spectacular Spider-Man, and am only reluctantly tolerating this newest thing. There are a lot of other crossover talent other than Weisman, too, so I'm not sure where the fault is. I can't help but wonder if it's an inherent problem with the directives of the show. It's like they want to do a wide, everything-and-the-kitchen-sink DC anthology show (with an even broader scope than Justice League), but at the same time have a bunch of melodrama focused around a handful of core characters. I also get the feeling there's maybe an element of wanting to do a Suicide Squad show, since that's arguably the third most important DC Comic behind Year One and DKR, which informs YJ's weird paramilitary black ops vibe. Neither Teen Titans or Young Justice comics had any of that poo poo. So you've got the moral ambiguity and high stakes of superheroes doing cloak and dagger poo poo, with all the relationship melodrama and annoying adolescent personalities of Teen Titans... it is an alchemy that has less than pleasant results. I will say, though, that the episode of the Atlantis arc written by Khary Payton was less painful than the show usually is. Somebody give THAT guy a cartoon. Hell, let him run a Cyborg solo show, I'd argue he's done more for the character than everyone else who's touched him put together
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May 10, 2022 22:46
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I have enjoyed Young Justice for the most part, it’s not the strongest show, but it had the Zod song so I like it.
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May 10, 2022 23:35
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SlothfulCobra posted:Young Justice was taking a premise from a decade earlier which itself was a copy of a premise going all the way back to the 60s, and it had the ambition to push boundaries in dramatic storytelling in a world where dramatic cartoons were already fairly common and the original premise had already gone through all this boundary-pushing drama all the way back in the 80s. There was almost nothing the show could do to distinguish itself among all the other shows out on the market at the time, and there was barely anything it could do to distinguish itself from the original as "this is now the adult version" because the original already did that, but the show chose to try anyways and I think regardless of your overall opinion of the show, it failed. It's not something new or unique in its genre, network, or even IP. It just lacks any self-awareness or sense of fun to offset the drama. That's really the thing - I'd probably be more into YJ if it wasn't just so oppressively joyless. But no, let's attend Beast Boy's intervention for PTSD.
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May 11, 2022 02:56
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:I'm arguably a huge Greg fanboy. I adore Gargoyles and wish we got more, and I loved the gently caress out of season 1 of Young Justice and thought it was incredible from start to finish. I like his serialized storytelling and a lot of his quirks and characteristics as a writer. I completely agree. I adore S1 Young Justice - I think it's one of the best animated superhero shows ever made. It has fun superhero action premises, a strong cast, excellent character development and really compelling drama. Everything afterwards is dreadful. There are a handful of bright moments in S2 - Blue Beetle and Impulse hanging out is, I think, the closest S2 comes to capturing the S1 spark - but everything else is baffling. A cast of dozens, most of whom are thin sketches with zero development, many of the characters from S1 are missing or dramatically changed without explanation, and the writing totally collapses in on itself. The jokes are worse, the drama's worse, and the tone goes from "YA dark" to "grimdark". Just baffling.
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May 11, 2022 03:15
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Yeah I'm gonna unfollow this thread. The urge to reply to all this is too strong.
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May 11, 2022 03:17
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I had no idea there were this many Wandas in all the marvel cartoons over the years https://twitter.com/TrueFri47243541/status/1529198452504203267 Android Blues posted:The jokes are worse, the drama's worse, and the tone goes from "YA dark" to "grimdark". S3 when it goes to HBO Max is where it goes "grimdark" with DC direct to video levels of blood and gore.
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May 26, 2022 09:48
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Y'know, people might not think Wanda's had the best treatment in the MCU, but she's still doing way, way better than most of her other incarnations
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May 26, 2022 11:00
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MonsterEnvy posted:I have enjoyed Young Justice for the most part, it’s not the strongest show, but it had the Zod song so I like it. The way the Zod family has been fleshed out has been a nice slow burn as well as making Mea'gan's shitbird brother a credible threat that deserves to be tossed into the sun. Still not sure what they're trying to do with the whole Markovia poo poo or even devote a piece of an episode to it. Now that stuff has sufficiently ramped up with Zod stuff I'm pretty curious to see where they go with it.
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Jun 3, 2022 16:53
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Finished up the season of Young Justice. I have to say, Lor-Zod getting played by Metron and getting himself nuked got a chuckle out of me. Of course, it ends with "All as Planned", but the Black Mary and Kara reveal peaks my interest. Can't wait to see how they gently caress this one up. 
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Jun 9, 2022 20:56
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AlternateNu posted:Finished up the season of Young Justice. Not really ending with an All as planned. The Light just captured the Kryptonians because Klarion learned about it and Darkseid took one.
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Jun 9, 2022 21:26
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Giving Meg'ann's brother the planet where that one Legionare originated from is an interesting wrinkle as to how his species ended up coming into being. . What's the significance of Zod's wife heading to Daxam so early in the timeline? I'm curious to see how the next season plays everything out if it's just going to be an all out Crisis level event or more just building stuff up. I'm glad with the way it wrapped up in this episode.
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Jun 9, 2022 21:27
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I'm kind of bummed that the Nightwing episodes weren't really focused on Nightwing. But I liked the season overall.
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Jun 10, 2022 00:49
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Glad to see Icicle Jr. was at the wedding. There was hope for him after all!AlternateNu posted:Can't wait to see how they gently caress this one up. Well, assuming that they get another season...vital plot points will take place in the tie in comic and the first episode will assume you read it. Also the comic gets delayed and doesn't come out until after the new season.
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Jun 10, 2022 01:00
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All new episodes will tie into Naked and Afraid XXL on Discovery+ , and interspersed between breaks of the brand new Street Outlaws.
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Jun 10, 2022 02:45
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Saw Mad Love for the first time yesterday, one of the best toons I've ever seen! Man that's good. Also looked into the comic version, and on the back not only Hamill but John Goodman gives quotes endorsing it oddly enough. Goodman has good taste in comics. Watched the first two eps of Batman Beyond, very cool stuff too. It hit when I was in 7th grade, and didn't get around to it, had a bit lower expectations for some reason. But it's just hella badass, and it is kinda fun how insanely 99/2000 it is. Like that Todd McFarlane Korn (edit: it was U2) video and stuff like that. That Terry dude is intense. He makes James Dean look like Mr. Bean. Lotta cool toons to watch!
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Jun 17, 2022 22:21
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Batman Beyond is great. It takes a dip in later seasons through a combination of budget cuts and increased censorship though. A few of those later episodes are rough. The Return of the Joker movie from it is amazingly good, however. I still hate the Justice League Unlimited ending for the series. Ugh. I wish it were more popular so it could get another movie. Maybe one after the series finale, but before the Justice League episode that shows Bruce repairing his relationships with Barbara, Tim, and finally giving us a Dick Grayson BB appearance. Hell, throw Selina in there for good measure. I just hate to think that (other than Ace and Terry), for all of Bruce's accomplishments, he was so, so alone. 
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Jun 17, 2022 22:44
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That's kind of an issue with Batman Beyond as a setting. For it to happen Bruce has to fail.
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Jun 17, 2022 22:49
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Jun 17, 2022 23:29
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muscles like this! posted:That's kind of an issue with Batman Beyond as a setting. For it to happen Bruce has to fail. On it's own merits I love Batman Beyond, it being the canon future of the DCAU is something I extremely loathe since it not only undermines the Batman portion of the present day DCAU content it undermines everyone else in the setting too
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Jun 18, 2022 00:11
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drrockso20 posted:On it's own merits I love Batman Beyond, it being the canon future of the DCAU is something I extremely loathe since it not only undermines the Batman portion of the present day DCAU content it undermines everyone else in the setting too 
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Jun 18, 2022 00:18
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I’ve posted this before, but I always felt uneasy as a kid watching Batman Beyond because there was no sense of safety for Bruce or Terry. The traditional rules for Batman and hero cartoons in general is that the batcave and daytime are safe for the characters. Terry and Bruce were always exposed and often powerless to avoid being institutionalized or arrested by corrupt systems. Inque getting into the batcave made me feel I was watching something really different. I can appreciate now that part of the series is about how nobody listens to or respects kids or old people, and they don’t have a lot of the usual batman resources simply because they’re on the margins. It’s a great show for that reason.
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Jun 18, 2022 00:46
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drrockso20 posted:On it's own merits I love Batman Beyond, it being the canon future of the DCAU is something I extremely loathe since it not only undermines the Batman portion of the present day DCAU content it undermines everyone else in the setting too Yeah people always talk about the big problem with that JLU finale being the whole Bruce/Terry thing but really it's about the kinda realization that if BB is the canon future, this whole grand Justice League with hundreds of heroes has to fail/fall apart since in the future the Justice League is again just Superman and like 6 other people. Frankly if there was gonna be a BB follow up I would've preferred some reveal that maybe after the time-travel episode they changed the future to where it didn't quite suck so much. (But it does still need to suck a little since, as noted, you can't get a Batman Beyond if Batman doesn't fail) e: I still believe that Return of the Joker is unironically like, one of the top Batman movies period. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jun 18, 2022 |
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Jun 18, 2022 01:21
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TwoPair posted:Yeah people always talk about the big problem with that JLU finale being the whole Bruce/Terry thing but really it's about the kinda realization that if BB is the canon future, this whole grand Justice League with hundreds of heroes has to fail/fall apart since in the future the Justice League is again just Superman and like 6 other people. Frankly if there was gonna be a BB follow up I would've preferred some reveal that maybe after the time-travel episode they changed the future to where it didn't quite suck so much. (But it does still need to suck a little since, as noted, you can't get a Batman Beyond if Batman doesn't fail) I think that's why the finale for JLU is setup the way it is, with most of the Legion of Doom(and thus most of the still active villains) dead they basically hint that the League's reduced size in Beyond's time is less from some event killing off most of the league(like some fans speculated was tied to the "Near Apocalypse of '09" that got mentioned once or twice in episodes set in the future) and more just most of them gradually retiring due to not being needed anymore, which also explains Bruce switching his focus back to primarily Gotham during the ROTJ flashbacks But I agree that if the DCAU ever comes back in animated form that they should explicitly separate BB as it's own timeline distinct from the mainline DCAU, like have the first episode happen during the ROTJ flashback but have some divergence prevent Harley and Joker from kidnapping Tim, maybe finally do something with that throwaway line in that one episode of Static Shock about Tim having joined a version of the Titans or something
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Jun 18, 2022 02:15
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For sure, that's part of why it probably took me so long to check it out. Batman being such an emotionally invested and tough to mess with classic thing. Now I just tend to go with the flow, the story is real in this story, I don't need to worry if Bruce from Batman TAS really definitely ends up like this in my headcanon. It's almost like this Cowboy Bebop-esque cool anime show I'm checking out, with some added gravitas that the ol' beloved Batman happens to be in it.
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Jun 18, 2022 02:45
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I guess the serious answer is that the bulk of the supervillains in Batman Beyond wouldn't really provoke all the superheroes of the world to come to Gotham. The biggest probably was that dinosaur guy. The real answer is that you can't think in terms of "where are the rest of the superheroes" even when there's supposed to be a bunch hanging around as part of a shared universe, because if the story isn't meant to be about all of those other heroes, it detracts from the story to have them swoop in and steal the show. Static Shock didn't need to explain why the Justice League wasn't around. I guess there was that one episode with the not-fantastic four. I'm not really sure if the world in general is in that bad of condition in Batman Beyond. Definitely it's sad that Bruce managed to chase away everyone who cared about him and then failed to manage his business well, and Terry had an unfortunate life, and there's a bunch of little stories of horrible inequities, but I'm not sure how much reflects on the overall state of the world as a whole and would definitively be a step down from the world full of crime that the "present-day" DCU was. There's streetgangs, but apparently no sign of the mobs that Gotham had during B:TAS. Criminals can get their hands on horrible future-weapons, but the Gotham PD aren't as overwhelmed as the Metropolis PD was in S:TAS. No rocket launchers on the street. In Batman Beyond, there's a creepy rat stalker guy in the sewers, but in B:TAS the sewers had a guy with a bunch of kidnapped children. Weirdly in Batman Beyond, most big corporations are still family-owned. I don't remember much of Zeta Project to say the state of the world from that. I think a lot of it is just the darkness stems from Terry's vantage point from a much less powerful position as a troubled teen in a single-parent family. Bruce Wayne didn't have troubled teen friends to see sinking away into their own problems.
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Jun 18, 2022 03:05
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I just imagine Terry's dad dying from a preventable disease because he went in for a vaccination shot, and instead got the batman dad shot.
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Jun 18, 2022 03:25
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If it bothers you, just imagine that Waller was obviously senile and Terry felt bad for her and played along with her crazy nonsense story.
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Jun 18, 2022 03:32
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IShallRiseAgain posted:I just imagine Terry's dad dying from a preventable disease because he went in for a vaccination shot, and instead got the batman dad shot. Glad you didn't call it the Batman cum shot.
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Jun 18, 2022 03:32
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How many times does Terry save what can be described as "the world" in Batman Beyond? There's the crossover with Justice League, the movie, and maybe fighting Kobra (which someone else could probably do, very easily, as they are collectively a bad Hydra clone) but most of the time he's just trying to clean up Gotham, which isn't really in the wheelhouse of say, a Green Lantern, a New God, a half-Thanagarian soldier, or an Atlantean Superman would probably do it, but man, that dude is busy. Also, we don't know how long Starro was controlling him, so for all intents and purposes he could've been like "There needs to be a hard limit on Justice League membership for.... I dunno, global security reasons or something"
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Jun 18, 2022 05:34
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