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wologar posted:Oh, just in case, I was musing about a possible game setup for another time. I highly doubt we're on a Vault-11 situation here. Ayyyyyyyy
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Jun 29, 2022 16:50
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 05:00 |
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I've played a couple forum mafia games before, so I'm definitely not a newbie. (Please don't execute me for this.) Honestly, the first vote is almost guaranteed to hit a townie, between nobody having any clues and the scum being the only ones able to organize themselves.
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Jun 29, 2022 16:51
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My Second Re-Reg posted:I think you two misunderstand me - I'm not attempting to apply game logic to my actions. Yeah I'm voting for this. I have some suspicions on others, but I think this is the clearest statement of anti-town action on the first day, as well as saying that they'll make an action that is difficult to analyse after the fact (because it's just non-logical chaos, right?) So, primary suspicion now goes to MSRR. ##vote My Second Re-Reg. Others I'm currently looking at are: Bucnasti Maybe playing up the confusion for obfuscation, but this could just be my paranoia. Follows MSRR with “Spin the wheel at the last minute” (and thus carries the same suspicion, for me) but, I might just be being paranoid and the confusion might be genuine, we're largely new, and so on. Cuntman.net Initially supported a no-vote, then switched to supporting a vote and voting for those who supported a no-vote (Green Wing and Jadecore). (minor inconsistency, but can also be explained because it's D1 and, like, people are allowed to change their minds) Proposed alternative to vote out Plastic Automaton on the basis of veterancy (‘innocent’ reasoning possibly shields scum move). But also, like. There are plenty of people for whom my notes are just "idk, not much to go on", because it's more than 24 hours out from deadline, so this might just be me doing the tall poppy thing to people sticking their necks out. That said, I feel pretty strongly that MSRR's proposed actions are, at best, town-detrimental. Also I like voting for people because it means people are forced to comment and make more content to look at, so. I like votes.
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Jun 29, 2022 17:07
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Yeah, I played a couple games some years ago and I mostly remember being confused. Also, while there's good reasons to be suspicious of lurkers, scum could also take advantage of them knowing who each other are and being able to coordinate to put themselves in charge of the discussion while keeping each other safe.
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Jun 29, 2022 17:09
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I think voting out those who deliberatley make chaos plays is a good idea, since they make reasoning and such a lot more difficult and potentially derail voting strategies. They can be considered anti-town. But, it's the first 24 hours of the first day and we're all new, I am not going to jump on MSRR just yet.
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Jun 29, 2022 17:14
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We have one more lurker nobody's mentioned yet, Caffeinated Jerkoff. Come on buddy, give us your thoughts. Who looks scum to you?
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Jun 29, 2022 17:25
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Still saying anybody trying too hard with the whole "logic" thing is just making themselves look suspicious.
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Jun 29, 2022 17:33
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Having thought about it further, I have to agree that MSSR's swerve to wanting to vote for me is more than a little strange, on multiple levels. One, if they really wanted to vote for people who are knowledgeable, why go for me and not the Certified Forum Mafia Veteran PlasticAutomaton? The only explanation I can see is that they don't think Plastic is trying to "lead people", likely because Plastic hasn't actually said that much besides game advice so far. I'd hardly call that a point in his favor, though. Two, a "chaos" vote on "knowledgeable" players could just as easily be a cover for scum trying to get rid of people they think are a threat, while maintaining deniability for that vote going forward. I'll admit you could say the same about my provisional plan to vote Plastic, but I wasn't particularly attached to that plan. I would have been willing to put these things aside as just Day 1 weirdness, but this is deeply worrying: My Second Re-Reg posted:Still saying anybody trying too hard with the whole "logic" thing is just making themselves look suspicious. This is a very dangerous attitude to have. It's giving me those so-called scum vibes, actually.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:09
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I don't think we can read much if anything from people waffling on whether to lunch or not day one. I don't think it's obvious, and I had to think about it for a while before the game started, too. I think the question of who people are proposing we vote for is more interesting. Unfortunately I have no great reads. I got some weird vibes from Green Wing earlier with the way she switched from no-lunch to voting on someone else with the reasoning that that person was a bit mildly no-lunch as well. But this is day one and the ball has to get rolling some way or another, so this doesn't mean much either. I'm way more suspicious of wologar and My Second Re-Reg now both going for the "vote out the secret veterans" angle. wologar is the first one to bring up NeverHelm and then Re-Reg follows up and announces their intent to vote NeverHelm out. I'm also suspicious as to why both of them homed in on alleged crypto-veteran NeverHelm instead of confirmed veteran Plastic Automaton. The heat also seemed to turn on NeverHelm the second they said they might vote Plastic. This whole schtick is giving me some vibes.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:03
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:I don't think we can read much if anything from people waffling on whether to lunch or not day one. I don't think it's obvious, and I had to think about it for a while before the game started, too. I think the question of who people are proposing we vote for is more interesting. Me giving people weird vibes isn't news to me, honestly  Eh, I was really just thinking aloud about no-kill rather than suggesting it first of all, but like yeah I see why that gave vibes. As I said at the time of the vote, it was "Might change it tomorrow, who knows! Day 1, what a concept!" so it was very much just an indicative "let's see where this leads" because, yeah. Gotta start somewhere. For avoidance of doubt, my current MSRR vote is more of a 'real' one.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:08
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thinking of voting for msrr just so i dont get hit by a stray bullet
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Jun 29, 2022 19:50
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You know what? Screw it. I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt, MSRR. But as has already been established, we really should vote someone out, and you've been rubbing me the wrong way. Voting you is much better than going with Plastic, and much better than rolling the dice on a random guess. ##vote My Second Re-Reg I might still change my mind but I don't think it's that likely. You're a better vote than most right now.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:54
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NeverHelm posted:How is trying to make an informed decision suspicious? It's Day #1 - there is no information yet, outside of those trying to pipe up and lead the thread, thus making the act of trying to influence the decisions of others suspicious in and of itself. ##vote NeverHelm
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Jun 29, 2022 19:58
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Votecount for Day 1  My Second Re-Reg (2): Green Wing, NeverHelm NeverHelm (1): My Second Re-Reg Jadecore (0): Green Wing, Not Voting (10): AFancyQuestionMark, Bucnasti, Caffeinated Jerkoff, Cloacamazing!, cuntman.net, Hyper Crab Tank, Jadecore, LupusAter, PlasticAutomaton, wologarWith 13 alive, it's 7 votes to execute. The current deadline is June 30th, 2022 at 5 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 1 day, 1 hour.
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Jun 29, 2022 20:07
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My Second Re-Reg posted:It's Day #1 - there is no information yet, outside of those trying to pipe up and lead the thread, thus making the act of trying to influence the decisions of others suspicious in and of itself. Nah, a quick look at other mafia threads does show that, after an initial shitposting phase, people still make accusations on others based on the content of their posts in Day 1, often on tone. You just have to make a read - I'm sticking with my read and vote on you, I think this is an anti-town position at best but also just likely a scum position. (Side note, like crab said I would really like to hear from Caffeinated Jerkoff and I hope that more people make votes before it comes down to the wire tomorrow, so there's time to think about them  )
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Jun 29, 2022 20:08
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My Second Re-Reg posted:It's Day #1 - there is no information yet, outside of those trying to pipe up and lead the thread, thus making the act of trying to influence the decisions of others suspicious in and of itself. i guess its true that the mafia would be more able to steer things than town. why neverhelm though? theyre not the only one trying to direct the conversation and i dont think they were aiming at anyone specific until very recently
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Jun 29, 2022 21:11
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Sorry for being quiet, work was busier than usual. This has pretty much been covered already, but I think the hidden setup of the game pushes us to vote for someone D1. If we knew the ratio of mafia:town, or knew how many town members (if any) have role actions, that could skew our decision away from voting someone out. Since we don't have any information to work with yet, it seems like our best option is choosing someone to vote for based on general posting vibes. Then when we see what their role was, we can investigate people who did or didn't vote for that person based on whether they were or weren't mafia. I think it's worth keeping track of people deflecting votes from one another D1, since mafia are the only people with enough information to confidently defend one another. A last-minute chaos vote makes votes less reliable information for catching mafia, so anyone supporting that is at least slightly suspicious. If I had to pick right now, I'd maybe vote for MSRR? All of their posts after game start have been either about voting for chaos or generally sort of aggressive (I wouldn't be surprised if I caught a vote from them after this). Then again, it feels like someone who would want to avoid getting thrown out wouldn't post in a way that draws attention to themselves like that.
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Jun 29, 2022 22:08
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:
Nope. You can verify that MSRR posted their intention to vote NeverHelm first and I went through Votefinder info afterwards. I know we both have non-avatars, but come on. About MSRR, I don't think they're necessarily scum, but their attitude has certainly been anti-town. Actually, an extra benefit of voting them would be one less person with the Stupid Newbie av!
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Jun 29, 2022 22:43
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I must've misread the order of posts. Sorry. I still think Re-Reg is acting shifty and I still wonder why NeverHelm is being targeted and not Plastic.
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Jun 29, 2022 22:48
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I'm not sure wologar ever 'targeted' NeverHelm in any case. The closest I can find is this post:wologar posted:I've only played IRL Werewolf and Avalon like thrice. I've been reading through some threads in the Game Room (https://forums.somethingawful.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=103), though, where I found out that NeverHelm has actually played before!! Which was quickly - like, *immediately*, followed up with wologar posted:Oh, just once according to Votefinder, so nevermind. Further, wologar was actually saying that they might vote plastic so...I don't think any of what you've said re: wologar holds up, HyperCrab. Possibly obfuscation? I don't know. Might be worth remembering this if any of these people flip. I'm not changing my vote at this time, but the more I look at this post the more I think...hmm, I'm not sure the addition of wologar here adds up. Wologar *did* bring up plastic as their voting preference. Hyper Crab Tank posted:I'm way more suspicious of wologar and My Second Re-Reg now both going for the "vote out the secret veterans" angle. wologar is the first one to bring up NeverHelm and then Re-Reg follows up and announces their intent to vote NeverHelm out. I'm also suspicious as to why both of them homed in on alleged crypto-veteran NeverHelm instead of confirmed veteran Plastic Automaton. The heat also seemed to turn on NeverHelm the second they said they might vote Plastic. This whole schtick is giving me some vibes. I have more out-there theories like for example "MSRR is a townie but an easy target, and both HCT and wologar are scum who are running interference" or "Plastic isn't posting as much as I'd expect a veteran to do, even on Day 1, and that's a tell", but, like, at some point I'm just overthinking and running in circles. Keeping my vote where it is, but, like. This post is to make sure my suspicions about what might be an honest mistake from HCT are written down. One other thought I have is that scum may be attempting to "be present without being present". I think this is more likely than straight-up not posting, which is also bad but for different reasons. By this I mean, posting but not commenting on things/talking about how they can't decide/how difficult this is, etc. Avoids being seen as lurkers, prevents getting a read. Also avoids voting - let's assume there are 3 scum (2 seems like too little, 4 seems like too much). If all of them just don't vote, that's quite a lot out of an inexperience crowd that just need to not vote in order to have no D1 flip. There are several people who are potentially in this category now.
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Jun 29, 2022 23:06
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Green Wing posted:
To be clear because this was a super rambling post - that first one is something I think might be true *instead* of MSRR being scum, but ultimately I still come down on 'MSRR is scum'. It's an alternative I'm mulling over.
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Jun 29, 2022 23:08
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:I must've misread the order of posts. Sorry. I still think Re-Reg is acting shifty and I still wonder why NeverHelm is being targeted and not Plastic. Despite being A Real Vet™, Plastic hasn't actually done anything yet, so I don't feel the need to suspect them of anything. Meanwhile Green Wing and NeverHelm seem to be making each other's arguments for themselves and, conveniently, both turned on me at the same time, for.... the crime of saying that nobody has anything solid to go off of? I didn't pass ~the vibe check~ because I pointed out how attempting to direct public opinion this early on reeks of attempting to steer control of the group? All I'm saying is, funny how I snagged two votes from Green Wing and NeverHelm before actually voting myself. And you're drat right I'm aggro. Somebody kidnapped a Pong paddle, I'm surrounded by scum, and my job is to commit forums murder until I either find those pixels or nobody's left to answer who did it. I will burn all of eternity to the ground to reunite those two paddles if I have to.
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Jun 29, 2022 23:21
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My Second Re-Reg posted:Despite being A Real Vet™, Plastic hasn't actually done anything yet, so I don't feel the need to suspect them of anything. Meanwhile Green Wing and NeverHelm seem to be making each other's arguments for themselves and, conveniently, both turned on me at the same time, for.... the crime of saying that nobody has anything solid to go off of? I didn't pass ~the vibe check~ because I pointed out how attempting to direct public opinion this early on reeks of attempting to steer control of the group? This post is almost bringing me around, but I'm not really convinced that NeverHelm is scum. Unless someone blatantly implicates themselves somehow in the next 19 hours, I think I'm gonna ##vote My Second Re-Reg
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Jun 30, 2022 03:02
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Clearly established chaotic intentions are as good a reason as any for this first minimal info day, I suppose. I can get where MSRR's coming from with a working idea of the people with really strong and constructed arguments having an edge for control, but for now? I think Green Wing and NeverHelm are just really enthusiastic and giving the reasoning their all. Which is, y'know, a good way to be. I'm more than happy to shift my vote if provided with more information, but in the name of just putting a vote on the board and lessening us all piling in last moment, I'll also ##vote My Second Re-Reg
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Jun 30, 2022 03:36
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Okay I have been firmly Sports Eddertained for the day so I'm here now. I'm kinda actively taking a backseat for today to let all the new players find their footing, but I'll take a bit to actually read and give thoughts in a lil' bit.
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Jun 30, 2022 04:38
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..Or well, take a bit to catch up on the thread and then post. I can type I swear.
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Jun 30, 2022 04:39
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My Second Re-Reg posted:Alrighty, then I double down on my previous statement - I'm now headhunting people who obviously know wtf they're talking about and are trying to steer the rest of us down their own path. asking again, why neverhelm? their only posts before this point were about general game stuff, rather than steering towards anyone in particular. their main point was just that we should vote on day one and they werent the only one saying that i just want to ask this before voting either way
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Jun 30, 2022 04:55
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cuntman.net posted:asking again, why neverhelm? [...] their main point was just that we should vote on day one and they werent the only one saying that This remains my main sticking point - NeverHelm and Green Wing appeared aligned early on. My suspicions lie heavier on someone bandwagoning an idea than the person who made it in the first place, though I think both are ultimately circumspect. Also: the lot of you will never take me alive.
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Jun 30, 2022 05:22
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My Second Re-Reg posted:ultimately circumspect. "Suspect". I meant "suspect".
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Jun 30, 2022 05:23
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Votecount for Day 1 My Second Re-Reg (4): Green Wing, NeverHelm, Caffeinated Jerkoff, Jadecore NeverHelm (1): My Second Re-Reg Jadecore (0): Green Wing, Not Voting (8): AFancyQuestionMark, Bucnasti, Cloacamazing!, cuntman.net, Hyper Crab Tank, LupusAter, PlasticAutomaton, wologar With 13 alive, it's 7 votes to execute. The current deadline is June 30th, 2022 at 5 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 16 hours, 15 minutes.
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Jun 30, 2022 05:44
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My Second Re-Reg posted:This remains my main sticking point - NeverHelm and Green Wing appeared aligned early on. My suspicions lie heavier on someone bandwagoning an idea than the person who made it in the first place, though I think both are ultimately circumspect. what were they aligned on? was it because they both didnt want to vote for plastic?
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Jun 30, 2022 06:04
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I don't really trust the sudden ganging up on MSSR here. The thread had been going that way for a while, but Green Wing has been pushing for it a bit too hard in my opinion. ##vote Green Wing
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Jun 30, 2022 06:10
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cuntman.net posted:what were they aligned on? was it because they both didnt want to vote for plastic? From my recollection they were both pushing for a kill vote on D1, which just felt... fishy to me for what's supposed to be a "newcomer friendly" game. Cloacamazing! posted:I don't really trust the sudden ganging up on MSSR here. The thread had been going that way for a while, but Green Wing has been pushing for it a bit too hard in my opinion. ##vote Green Wing Also, thanks. I'm not ready to turn in my badge and gun yet!
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Jun 30, 2022 06:24
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Well, MSRR hasn't really done much to change the unpredictable chaos impression, and no one else is really standing out to me, so vote time it is. ##vote My Second Re-Reg
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Jun 30, 2022 07:27
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Green Wing posted:Further, wologar was actually saying that they might vote plastic so...I don't think any of what you've said re: wologar holds up, HyperCrab. Yeah, my bad, let me explain what my thought process was. In the first place, it was predicated on my mistaken belief (due to sloppy use of the ? button) that wologar first brought up NeverHelm. But even then my leaning was that wologar was actually town and Re-Reg was trying to use it as an opening to dogpile on NeverHelm. (This is all nonsense now though, the timeline doesn't work out, so that's just to explain what was going through my dumb head at the time.) It's just that the "vote out the veterans" logic only made marginal sense to me to begin with in the case of Plastic, and none at all in the case of people who had played like once or twice before, so anyone who has been edging close to that argument (i.e. wologar and Re-Reg) stood out to me. Additionally: My Second Re-Reg posted:Despite being A Real Vet™, Plastic hasn't actually done anything yet, so I don't feel the need to suspect them of anything. This doesn't square with me. The timeline here seems to be that NeverHelm says we should lunch someone day one (which everyone is in agreement with, so this is not weird), then soft suggests that Plastic wouldn't be the worst one to vote out with no information. This is followed by Re-Reg freaking out about newbies not actually being newbies and almost immediately sets his sight on... NeverHelm? Why? In particular, if Re-Reg is so concerned about non-newbies being in the game, why is Plastic's passivity (which seems way more scum to me than anything NeverHelm has said) suddenly a big enough factor to proclaim that Re-Reg intends to vote NeverHelm? (Oh, and "I hadn't actually voted yet" is a non-argument in my book when you explicitly said you were going to vote for someone.) This could mean that Re-Reg and Plastic are both scum and Re-Reg was trying to deflect attention away from Plastic. But honestly? I'm not sure at all. Am I being suckered into bandwagoning onto Re-Reg by Green Wing? I can't rule that out, either.
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Jun 30, 2022 09:00
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Cloacamazing! posted:I don't really trust the sudden ganging up on MSSR here. The thread had been going that way for a while, but Green Wing has been pushing for it a bit too hard in my opinion. ##vote Green Wing Eh, in my post where I voted I listed two other people in suspicious of, and then set out how I'm not sure about HCT. Like, I've been posting a lot, but that's just...sort of what I'm like. (my instinct is to point at this post and say 'hm this is possibly scum trying to distance themselves, maybe MSRR is a townie' but I think this is a post it's impossible to analyse before the flip. That's probably just an "oi, how dare you vote for me" instinct) I try to go all out in everything I do, and tend to put dien every thought I have. This might not be for strategy, the more I think think about it. I just can't stop posting.
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Jun 30, 2022 09:46
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I'm perfectly willing to entertain the possibility that MSRR is just a townie who is being a little paranoid about being led about. It's not a completely unreasonable stance to adopt compared to anything else, and it's not like Day 1 votes have the strongest basis anyway. It's just that the particular stance they adopt feels anti-discussion. Not everything that is said in the thread is deliberately intended to persuade you to vote one way or another. Sometimes, it's just a matter of giving voice to your thoughts. A knee-jerk reaction to in-depth posting as crypto-veterans "controlling the conversation" doesn't really make sense to me, and it discourages other people from giving thorough statements (which is something I would appreciate, personally) and giving town more to work with. This could also be considered a way to control the conversation and one that would favor those with the most information, in other words the scum team. In other words, this stance is at best unintentionally anti-town and at worst a scum tactic. This is why I feel that MSRR is the strongest voting option for me at the moment. The fact that he's focusing on me specifically doesn't help, obviously - but that's a secondary concern. That said, I can see where Cloacamazing and HCT are coming from and being worried about bandwagoning. It is a little worrying how quickly the votes piles up, especially given that some of those votes have minimal justification beyond what's been said in the thread by others. While this does give me some pause, it's ultimately not enough to sway me away from the vote on HSRR.
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Jun 30, 2022 11:01
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I mean, bandwagoning is always going to be a concern, that's what scum are going to do if they see a vote going one way. Either the person is town (and it's slipping in to push it towards there) or they're scum and they can see the way the wind is blowing, and want to cover themselves. All the more reason for people to, like. Set out fully what they think as much as they can.
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Jun 30, 2022 12:07
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Yeah, advocating for people not to try to play the game isn't a good look. Only thing that gives me pause is the doubling down, feels a little too attention-grabbing, but it could be an attempt at posting through it. ##vote My Second Re-Reg
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Jun 30, 2022 12:20
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 05:00 |
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Next vote to MSRR would end the day immediately, keep in mind, so. Any last thoughts before nightfall, get them in now.
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Jun 30, 2022 12:42
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