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Jun 26, 2022 18:30
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ChrisBTY posted:I just beat the game. Fantastic game. Will very likely be on my Top 10 at the end of the year. I even had a soft spot for the more simple fantasy writing after Triangle Strategy's endless political gut punches. Though all the bond stuff is random garbo that only seems to exist because Fire Emblem did it. Yeah I started skipping all the chats when I had 5 convos to go through with the zando guy and everyone else. Thanks for the permadeath opinions. I'll tick it off or restart if need be. I got a dragon from that first bazaar. I dunno if that's a fixed seed or what but it was kinda weird to just have a recruitable dragon.
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Jun 26, 2022 20:33
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ChrisBTY posted:I just beat the game. Fantastic game. Will very likely be on my Top 10 at the end of the year. I even had a soft spot for the more simple fantasy writing after Triangle Strategy's endless political gut punches. Though all the bond stuff is random garbo that only seems to exist because Fire Emblem did it. Same. Very happy it was made but also makes me mad that this is the best anyone has come up with in this genre for awhile. Would kill for another legit Ogre Battle game or a Last Remnant sequel. Endgame spoilers This unique NPC was great all game but her obscene single target damage was somewhat wasted until the final boss HP sponge. She was hitting for 800x2 on crits thanks to her obscene stat growth (did not feed her any stat items either) and her talents.  
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Jun 26, 2022 22:04
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aparmenideanmonad posted:Same. Very happy it was made but also makes me mad that this is the best anyone has come up with in this genre for awhile. Would kill for another legit Ogre Battle game or a Last Remnant sequel. Unique NPCs seem too drat good to be RNG. The one I picked up gives *everyone* +10 hit/evade
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Jun 26, 2022 22:10
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I have played the Ogre Battle games dozens of times at this point so I was really curious how this compares. I bought it for my brother, another OB fan, and within an hour he was just repeatedly telling me BUY IT BUYT IT. So I did. Story feels a bit weak but everything else has me hooked. I hope this sells well, I love these kinds of games and missed them so very much.
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Jun 27, 2022 00:03
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I like that this is more straightforward than Ogre Battle while retaining some of the randomness that game was known for.
ChrisBTY fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Jun 27, 2022 |
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Jun 27, 2022 03:55
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Personally, I just enjoy the fight going down for me. I'm lazy as gently caress in games and ogre battles were nice to see just how the planning paid off. (I'm also that degenerate that puts party AI on 'auto' in rpgs.) So while its more fire emblemy with positioning, still scratches that itch.
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Jun 27, 2022 06:08
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What's the best way to get apprentices with a high magic attribute as you progress in the game? I'm on Chapter 8 and new recruits are coming in at level 6. That seems to mean they have wasted 5 levels of stat growth on strength, because they have to be retrained from physical tier 1 classes. The new recruits will need 250 class XP as well, so they'll probably have wasted 7 or 8 levels of stat growth by the time I can convert them to an apprentice. It seems like it might have been better to hoover up as many units at the start of the game as possible to minimise the number of wasted level ups. Is there anything I'm missing? It seems like an odd design choice from the devs.
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Jun 27, 2022 17:38
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Gammymajams posted:What's the best way to get apprentices with a high magic attribute as you progress in the game? I'm on Chapter 8 and new recruits are coming in at level 6. That seems to mean they have wasted 5 levels of stat growth on strength, because they have to be retrained from physical tier 1 classes. The new recruits will need 250 class XP as well, so they'll probably have wasted 7 or 8 levels of stat growth by the time I can convert them to an apprentice. It seems like it might have been better to hoover up as many units at the start of the game as possible to minimise the number of wasted level ups. Is there anything I'm missing? It seems like an odd design choice from the devs. If you do arena runs you can get items that give a unit 500 class xp, so it might be best to skip the +1 level 250 class xp tech and buy the lower level units then use the item and immediately promote them. Other than that, yeah, to get good magic on the fighter/bowman base classes you probably want to buy water aligned bowmen (bowmen seem to get better magic growth than fighters, though it's the difference between low and pitiful) early in the game and try to class them up to apprentices fast. That or buy magic classed mercenaries. You can also promote medics to their own magic damage class and they get decent magic growth, though they don't get the variety of class choices apprentices do.
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Jun 27, 2022 17:44
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ChrisBTY posted:I like that this is more straightforward than Ogre Battle while retaining some of the randomness that game was known for. The two big things I miss from Ogre Battle are position affecting combat performance (ie, a samurai in the front row deals 2 melee slash attacks while one in the back deals 1 ranged air slash attack, etc) and all the weird and wacky class transformation items.
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Jun 27, 2022 18:00
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Zurai posted:The two big things I miss from Ogre Battle are position affecting combat performance (ie, a samurai in the front row deals 2 melee slash attacks while one in the back deals 1 ranged air slash attack, etc) and all the weird and wacky class transformation items. The positioning not changing attacks took me some getting used to, and I kept instinctively putting light infantry on the front lines because my mind insisted I had to. After getting used to it I think I'm fine with it though, since formation still matters for your defense. I do wish there was a wider selection of classes, though. Maybe we'll get an expansion/sequel?
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Jun 27, 2022 18:13
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They're planning a sequel yeah, there was a mention of undead units being a thing there. I want some weirder variety than that though... undead boring 
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Jun 27, 2022 18:17
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Undead were actually really cool in Ogre Battle since they were quite strong versus normal units and hard, hard countered by clerics. That said, give me my tigermen and puppet masters and golems and griffons and octopi and...
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Jun 27, 2022 18:19
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Bremen posted:If you do arena runs you can get items that give a unit 500 class xp, so it might be best to skip the +1 level 250 class xp tech and buy the lower level units then use the item and immediately promote them. Other than that, yeah, to get good magic on the fighter/bowman base classes you probably want to buy water aligned bowmen (bowmen seem to get better magic growth than fighters, though it's the difference between low and pitiful) early in the game and try to class them up to apprentices fast. That or buy magic classed mercenaries. That's a good use of the class XP books actually yeah. I'm gonna do that, thanks.
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Jun 27, 2022 18:22
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If they're doing a sequel I hope they break from using an old version of RPG maker. Just because the AI feels obnoxiously sloooooow on the maps with 30+ enemies. Especially when they aren't even moving. Or at the very least optimize the SRPG scripts if they're using the ones that have floated around since forever ago. Aside from that, I'd love to see the male magic line be split off from the fighter tree, and more unique unit types in general. Support as a role feels especially neglected outside of healers, and Dragons are fun to pick up midgame (though honestly my only dragon unit is primarily a dedicated chest looter at this point). It's fun as hell when you come up with a unit that just wrecks everything of equivalent level, give us more options.
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Jun 27, 2022 19:32
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More flying units, make water units, undead units and units that require poo poo like Pumpkins and Princess Crowns to promote. You know, just... make another Ogre Battle, please.
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Jun 28, 2022 02:15
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They said that this game is the first in an entire planned series of similar games, so they probably won't stop at just one sequel. Also Steamspy estimates that there are 100k-200k people who bought the game. At $20 a pop even after taking out Steam's ~30% cut that's ~2.1 million in revenue so they're not in danger of going under any time soon. e: Also, I haven't played any of them but here's a list of other RPGMaker games by the same dev team: Echoes of Aetheria Skyborn Deadly Sin Deadly Sin 2 Legacies of Dondoran There are full (free) versions and demos of some of them here: https://rpgmaker.net/users/harmonic/ Or they can all be bought on Steam. They're all on sale for $1-3 each right now Though at first glance it looks like they're all more traditional JRPG style games, with some interesting fresh ideas mixed in, e.g. Deadly Sin has Phantasy Star style battles with your party sprites at the bottom fighting monsters above them, and some kind of in-depth skill trees. deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Jun 28, 2022 |
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Jun 28, 2022 02:59
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Levantine posted:More flying units, make water units, undead units and units that require poo poo like Pumpkins and Princess Crowns to promote. You know, just... make another Ogre Battle, please. I think the various leadership abilities fill the princess niche well, but more units is always great. Maybe move the male magic classes into their own line, add a few hybrid physical/magic classes that use the dragon mechanic of using both magic and strength or the paladin's adaptive ability use, add a few more non-humans (dragons are great, but more variety would be nice), maybe the cat people as a line of units. Honestly just anything that adds more unit types would get my money. deep dish peat moss posted:Or they can all be bought on Steam. They're all on sale for $1-3 each right now Someone in Discord said "Buy this game! It's a new Ogre Battle!" so I just bought the full developer bundle because it was only like $2-3 more.
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Jun 28, 2022 03:23
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deep dish peat moss posted:They said that this game is the first in an entire planned series of similar games, so they probably won't stop at just one sequel. Also Steamspy estimates that there are 100k-200k people who bought the game. At $20 a pop even after taking out Steam's ~30% cut that's ~2.1 million in revenue so they're not in danger of going under any time soon. Echoes of Aetheria has some of my favorite combat in a turn based jrpg if you are into that
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Jun 28, 2022 06:34
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is Echoes also a prequel to Symphony of War? I saw in the trailer it uses the same map.
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Jun 28, 2022 06:54
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ChrisBTY posted:is Echoes also a prequel to Symphony of War? I saw in the trailer it uses the same map. Kinda. Both Skyborn and Echoes take place in the same world as SoW, not sure about the other games. I think Echoes is like 100 years before SoW, and many of the characters and events from the game are mentioned.
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Jun 28, 2022 16:09
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babypolis posted:Echoes of Aetheria has some of my favorite combat in a turn based jrpg if you are into that It is really good and like SoW is almost unrecognizably RPGMaker in the ways that count.
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Jun 30, 2022 14:55
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Might be a surge in sales for them, relatively popular meme-youtuber Ssethtzeentach did a video on symphony of war.
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Jun 30, 2022 16:36
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Iymarra posted:Might be a surge in sales for them, relatively popular meme-youtuber Ssethtzeentach did a video on symphony of war. wrong game with a very similar name.
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Jun 30, 2022 17:08
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Iymarra posted:Might be a surge in sales for them, relatively popular meme-youtuber Ssethtzeentach did a video on symphony of war. That was for Songs of Conquest
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Jun 30, 2022 22:49
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Zurai posted:The two big things I miss from Ogre Battle are position affecting combat performance (ie, a samurai in the front row deals 2 melee slash attacks while one in the back deals 1 ranged air slash attack, etc) and all the weird and wacky class transformation items. I liked how the drops in OB were random so you'd occasionally end up with crazy poo poo like a staff+ring and/or crown and have a Lich and/or Princess super early in the game just murdering everything effortlessly. If you didn't know the werewolf gimmick it was really easy to just never get any of them though unless you ran around to trigger random encounters on that same map to try and recruit some. I think tiger men also had a similarly tedious means of recruitment?
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Jun 30, 2022 22:54
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Bloodly posted:This sounds vaguely interesting from the outside. You feel like talking more on this? If you want an idea of the daily lives of early modern european soldiery I'd hit up the Military History thread in AskTell, and search for HEY GUNS posts. They did their dissertation or somesuch on the period and had a lot of dumb stories that were interesting but not exactly something that would get published. If you want actual text Peter H. Wilson's The Thirty Years War: Europe's Tragedy is high level but goes into quite a bit of detail on some of the smaller parts of society, especially in dealing with Sweden's entry into the war and to Sack of Magdeburg. It's quite a dense work though, be forewarned. Gotta say I think I'm done with this game. I got to the mission with Beatrix for the first time and spent ten minutes it felt waiting for the green and red teams to go through their turns. The story is just bad, the graphics as well, setting up your teams takes forever and is too finicky. The actual tactical maps is fun, but there's so much in the way of getting to the meat of the game that I just don't want to deal with. I hope the devs can get some artists and writers and use this as a launchpad to make something great in a couple years
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Jun 30, 2022 22:57
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Evil Fluffy posted:I liked how the drops in OB were random so you'd occasionally end up with crazy poo poo like a staff+ring and/or crown and have a Lich and/or Princess super early in the game just murdering everything effortlessly. Actually it was easy to get werewolves if you were a kid playing cluelessly because you'd lose fighters to the boss at night and they'd magically come back as WW on the next organize screen. My younger brother got them on his first playthrough and I was like WTF CHEATER!
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Jun 30, 2022 23:05
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I'm having a really hard time like... figuring out what to do with units. I'm very early in the game (just beat the mission where I got Barnabas) and the next mission has 4 additional deployment slots besides the 5 important characters I have, plus I want to fill out all of their squads a bunch. I got all of the special green name units at every shop plus the extras from the skill that gives more shop options, and I've been keeping an eye out for regular recruits with decent stats. But I have no clue which classes I should put everyone in, or how to set up squads properly. I kind of figure I want my archer squad to just be archers but everything else should be mixed? And use my highest leadership units as squad leaders obviously. Also I'm trying to avoid using Zelos because he gives off huge Delita vibes (i.e. he's gonna leave and become an antagonist after the first major story beat) and is overleveled anyways, but it seems like that might be a mistake because him being strong means he can level some of my weaker units in the same squad as him. Not really sure how that all works. Oh also it seems like apprentices are in a really weird spot, stats wise. Any that I recruit come with good magic but if I try to promote them out of fighters or archers their magic sucks, even at very low levels. I suppose this means I just have to lean on recruiting them whenever I can and not bother trying to use promoted ones? Fajita Queen fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Jul 1, 2022 |
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Jul 1, 2022 01:34
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The Shortest Path posted:I'm having a really hard time like... figuring out what to do with units. I'm very early in the game (just beat the mission where I got Barnabas) and the next mission has 4 additional deployment slots besides the 5 important characters I have, plus I want to fill out all of their squads a bunch. I got all of the special green name units at every shop plus the extras from the skill that gives more shop options, and I've been keeping an eye out for regular recruits with decent stats. But I have no clue which classes I should put everyone in, or how to set up squads properly. I kind of figure I want my archer squad to just be archers but everything else should be mixed? And use my highest leadership units as squad leaders obviously. In general: ranged squads should be all ranged units and cavalry squads should be mostly cavalry (but you can include a couple of non-cav units as long as half the squad is cavalry to keep the movement type). Other squads should have either heavy infantry or heavy cavalry in the front row, whatever other damage-dealers you want, and at least one medic. You probably want to invest in mage units early on; they're weak at the beginning, super strong late-game, and are difficult to raise toward the end of the game because there isn't a mage base class. Dragons can substitute for both heavy infantry and mages.
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Jul 1, 2022 01:43
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The game throws poo poo tons of gun and cavalry units at you, so pikemen are actually a really good investment in this game. Sadly this was probably the hardest lesson for me to learn after decades of rpg and strategy games where pikemen were weak, super specialized or both.
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Jul 1, 2022 03:09
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The Shortest Path posted:I'm having a really hard time like... figuring out what to do with units. I'm very early in the game (just beat the mission where I got Barnabas) and the next mission has 4 additional deployment slots besides the 5 important characters I have, plus I want to fill out all of their squads a bunch. I got all of the special green name units at every shop plus the extras from the skill that gives more shop options, and I've been keeping an eye out for regular recruits with decent stats. But I have no clue which classes I should put everyone in, or how to set up squads properly. I kind of figure I want my archer squad to just be archers but everything else should be mixed? And use my highest leadership units as squad leaders obviously. First off, this is just what I did, so no guarantees it's the "right" tactic. You don't need to fill every deployment slot, and the game will pretty steadily give you new "story" units that are locked into being leaders of their own units (though apparently this may change later). I only have two non-story units as of chapter 12 and I've done well so far, but that might be partly because I couldn't remember if I had permadeath on and therefor kind of leaned hard into fewer elite units rather than spreading the power out into units that could get wiped out relatively easily. IMHO the most important stat for squad leaders is leadership, with actually being good combat units kind of secondary. Any of the squad wide (blue) traits are also really nice, though I'm not sure I've ever seen them on random units. Meanwhile the green+ units you buy in the market almost always have the "mercenary" trait, which makes them take more squad cap to put in squads unless they're the squad leader. So I pretty much only bought mercenaries with good leadership and made them leaders of their own units, while 95% of my army started off as base unit that I promoted over time. I tried to aim for at least 5 units in each squad, which usually requires at least 50 leadership, leadership traits, or capacity boosting artifacts. My two non-story squads are lead by a mercenary I bought with good leadership, and a healer I bought because she had the "light" element that increases leadership growth. I also leveled the healer up in Barnabas' squad because he has a trait that increases the leadership growth of units in his squad, which got her over 50 leadership pretty quick. The next thing I designed squads around is leader traits. Barnabas, for example, has a trait that makes melee cavalry take less squad cap in his squad, so he got 2 heavy cavalry in the front row and two light cavalry and the healer in the back row. I believe you've already gotten or will soon get a leader who has the same trait for archers, so he's my ranged squad with a bunch of archers (and a healer, since they can still do their thing in ranged combat too) to bombard stuff. A few other leaders have similar traits, making building squads for them pretty obvious. After that... well, I took the tech that gave +3 weapon power for each different type of unit in a squad, so I mostly went with diversity. My "standard" squad template was a heavy infantry and heavy cavalry in front, then a healer +2-3 of archer, mage, or light infantry in the back rows (and even my archer squad got archers, healer, and cavalry archer to get in on the boost). A few squads I set up for "light" movement type and ambushes were heavier on the light infantry, though you only need 3 lights in a 5-6 unit squad to get it because healers count as slow, and 3 light 2 normal 1 slow counts as "majority" light. Once I got the tech that made archers count as light movement that got a lot easier. Getting apprentices with decent magic definitely seems like something you have to specifically build around early on and probably something I'd pay more attention to if I were starting a new campaign; as is I only have two apprentices.
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Jul 1, 2022 04:13
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Thanks everyone those tips have all been helpful. I've picked up a few mercenary units with really solid leadership, I dunno how randomized or deterministic the shop units are but I feel like these ones are good. I'm going to have at least 3 apprentices and 2 sirens with good magic starting with the third real chapter. Fajita Queen fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Jul 1, 2022 |
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Jul 1, 2022 05:04
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Zurai posted:You probably want to invest in mage units early on; they're weak at the beginning, super strong late-game, and are difficult to raise toward the end of the game because there isn't a mage base class. Going to agree that magic units are trash early on and good later but that's why you should ignore them for most of the early game. They die easily to ambushes and archers and can't help you much on offense until you get the proper tech upgrades. You can recruit plenty later though - archer recruits at least have a small chance to roll with high magic stats (I noticed this when trying to fill up light cav squads late game with non water units), and there's plenty of opportunities to grab Merc mages as well once you've got your tech tree upgraded enough for them to be worth using. Speaking of units that are bad without tech upgrades, firearms are pretty meh, especially massed, early on as well. They really need the 2 shot tech to compete with dps focused T3 alternatives (gladiator/champion/zweihander/any archer), and the tankiness or ranged distance flexibility of the alternatives really makes them better in the end anyway. Firearms are annoying to go up against as the player because of their potential to kill one of your units in one turn, but they're less useful in the player's hands due to their squish + lower overall damage output. One or two can be nice in some squads mid-late game against paladins, but that's about it in my experience. aparmenideanmonad fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Jul 1, 2022 |
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Jul 1, 2022 08:52
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Final map question: What does it mean when the boss is glowing purple? One shot with one of my shittiest units wiped out the rest of his health after he changed colors so I didn't see what it was going to do
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Jul 1, 2022 14:40
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Starting a new run on warlord with the PC named Donar because I am the kind of idiot who will find it amusing every time someone calls them by name. Deki posted:Final map question: When I killed him I saw some claw attacks, his shield + bridge explosions + reinforcement units spawned, there was some message about killing the reinforcements before he absorbed them to power up or something (they were already dead), then he came out of his shied and died the next round. I don't remember if/when he turned purple during this. aparmenideanmonad fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Jul 3, 2022 |
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Jul 1, 2022 20:53
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There's a new patch out with a few substantial balance changes in it: SoW patch notes posted:Spellweaver Tier 1 tech has been replaced by “Apprentice Training”, which will grant a permanent slot to hire Apprentices. Those are the ones that caught my eye. I would have used a lot more mages if I could have been recruiting apprentices easily throughout the game.
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Jul 9, 2022 14:35
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OK I came back around to this and beat the game This really too much of a cakewalk on normal, if I ever do another playthrough I am def bumping up the difficulty and turning on permadeath Here are my end game squads   When Sybil and Abigayle became bonded I disbanded Sybil's squad and made Jaromir a leader again. So until I got the late joiners from chapter 29 I spent most of the end game with only 11 squads and it didn't hurt at all. Game is good despite the flaws. Ultimately I would say it being too easy on normal is a bigger issue than the writing or art even with both of those being rather weak. Hope SoW2 addresses the problems here but I doubt they are going to hire a writer it seems this story stuff is kinda the dev's baby.
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Jul 30, 2022 00:44
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Thinking of getting this, and wanted to know if there are any traps to avoid (I saw "not distributing LDR gain to all of your squads" earlier in the thread ) or techs I should definitely be taking early on?
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Jul 31, 2022 00:33
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Quixzlizx posted:Thinking of getting this, and wanted to know if there are any traps to avoid (I saw "not distributing LDR gain to all of your squads" earlier in the thread ) or techs I should definitely be taking early on? Guns are weird and worth really going into except for the one obvious guy who should have a bunch of cannons. Make lots of cav. You can move after acting/healing. The whole squad doesn’t have to be cav, just the majority of dudes. You can freely upgrade/downgrade units including named characters. Deploy the maximum number of units possible per mission. Make your good units real good but also be able to fill the board with random archer units with a healer attached. Those guys can contribute with bow shots, heals for the real units, captures, and body blocking if needed. Don’t play on the units that die die for real mode. That’s aggressively not fun. Being able to lose dudes/units and not have to rebuild is worth it.
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Jul 31, 2022 04:31
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