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Bucnasti posted:How is Green Wing voting for me, Cloacamazing and nobody at the same time?  First line says you are voting Green Wing (name in blue links to your vote). Second and third lines say GW voted for you and Cloacamazing! but no longer is (scratched name). Last line says, correctly, that GW votes no-one at the moment.
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Jul 3, 2022 07:56
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Yep, name on the left is who has been voted for, names on the right are current or former voters. Clicking the name hyperlink is a great way to go back and look at votes from previous days as well (you can view only votefinder's posts to make it easier).
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Jul 3, 2022 08:07
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Bucnasti posted:How is Green Wing voting for me, Cloacamazing and nobody at the same time? thats the power of unemployment
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Jul 3, 2022 09:51
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All right, gently caress it, I may not be sure of this case but we need to get some action going, let's see where this one goes. ##vote PlasticAutomaton
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Jul 3, 2022 11:25
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The more I think about it the more I think Plastic might be the right play. They're posting has been kinda erratic, which is suspect. It was brought up early on day one to off them because they were dangerous, but that got deflected when MSRR claimed they would chaos vote. If they were dangerous wouldn't the scum have taken then out the first night instead of afancyquestionmark?
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Jul 3, 2022 15:45
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Bucnasti posted:If they were dangerous wouldn't the scum have taken then out the first night instead of afancyquestionmark? On the flipside, since town has been suspicious of Plastic from day one as well, the same logic that applies to Green Wing can apply there.
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Jul 3, 2022 16:04
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Bucnasti posted:If they were dangerous wouldn't the scum have taken then out the first night instead of afancyquestionmark? Well, if they were a dangerous town role, scum would have no way of knowing that, seeing as this is one of them there hidden role games. Everything about the "they must be important because they were the sub" speculation doesn't really check out to me when we just really wanted 13 players to fill out the roster. And in terms of being dangerous from what they say, they just... haven't? Most of their talking has been saying they're taking it chill, or pointing out what they think is good material and posts from a veteran's perspective or clarification of things, which would be valuable for anyone who hasn't played this much before. That being said, that adds up to an incredibly attention-grabbing form of lurking as evidenced by us all talking about it a lot. I'd appreciate more constructive or meaty input from Plastic, especially now that they're the suspicion du jor.
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Jul 3, 2022 17:28
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I don't think it's so much that Plastic has any particular role, but that Plastic has more experience than any of us and can make better calls overall. If he is town, scum knows that and would be incentivized to get him out of the way to deny town an asset. Contrariwise, if Plastic is scum, they want to keep him alive so he can help them in the private scum chat. In short, scum have an incentive to night-kill townie Plastic and they don't have any such incentive to kill AFancyQuestionMark since nobody knew anything about what kind of role he had beforehand - but they still chose to. I agree this is another straw on an increasingly straw-covered camel's back.
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Jul 3, 2022 17:37
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Votecount for Day 2  Green Wing (1): Bucnasti PlasticAutomaton (1): Hyper Crab Tank Bucnasti (0): Green Wing, Cloacamazing! (0): Green Wing, Not Voting (9): Caffeinated Jerkoff, Cloacamazing!, cuntman.net, Green Wing, Jadecore, LupusAter, NeverHelm, PlasticAutomaton, wologarWith 11 alive, it's 6 votes to execute. The current deadline is July 04th, 2022 at 5 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 1 day, 4 hours.
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Jul 3, 2022 17:43
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All good points, but we don't have much else to go on. I'm leaning town on both Bucnasti and Green Wing and I don't think there's been any substantial suspicion on anyone else, besides Plastic. I'll ##vote PlasticAutomaton, at least for now.
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Jul 3, 2022 17:44
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:I don't think it's so much that Plastic has any particular role, but that Plastic has more experience than any of us and can make better calls overall. If he is town, scum knows that and would be incentivized to get him out of the way to deny town an asset. Contrariwise, if Plastic is scum, they want to keep him alive so he can help them in the private scum chat. In short, scum have an incentive to night-kill townie Plastic and they don't have any such incentive to kill AFancyQuestionMark since nobody knew anything about what kind of role he had beforehand - but they still chose to. I agree this is another straw on an increasingly straw-covered camel's back. I realize that I've been banging on this drum, but this is a whole lot of projecting based on the single data point of the scum not killing someone N1. Plastic has been quieter than I'd expect a veteran to be, that's true, and being a veteran they do attract attention, but I'm not sure that amounts to a convincing case. And I'll be blunt, I'm starting to find this thing being so confident in the scum's motives from very little actual evidence kinda suspicious.
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Jul 3, 2022 17:57
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I admit, there is no evidence, but I don't know what that evidence could be. Speculating based on what I would do in that position is the best I have to offer, and, frankly, it's better than nothing. Like, what else can we expect to go on at this point? If you have something, I'd love to hear it, and I'll change my mind (and vote) if I feel there's a better scum read somewhere else.
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Jul 3, 2022 18:03
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Yep, it's not a convincing case, but it's the best option I see at the moment. It would be nice to hear more from cuntman, Caffeinated Jerkoff and Cloacamazing.
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Jul 3, 2022 18:13
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Deadline has been extended for 24h more to avoid overlapping with the 4th July festivities for US players. New deadline is 5th July, same time.
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Jul 3, 2022 18:41
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Votecount for Day 2 PlasticAutomaton (2): Hyper Crab Tank, wologar Green Wing (1): Bucnasti Bucnasti (0): Green Wing, Cloacamazing! (0): Green Wing, Not Voting (8): Caffeinated Jerkoff, Cloacamazing!, cuntman.net, Green Wing, Jadecore, LupusAter, NeverHelm, PlasticAutomaton With 11 alive, it's 6 votes to execute. The current deadline is July 05th, 2022 at 5 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 2 days, 3 hours. Deadline has been extended for 24h!
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Jul 3, 2022 18:48
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Well hey, thanks mods! Gives us some extra time to get more words in from the people who we haven't heard as much from. I don't normally actually do much for the 4th despite being American for, y'know, Reasons, but maybe I'll... I dunno, make some buffalo chicken dip.
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Jul 3, 2022 19:10
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Hello I am back from my weekend doing fun gay things so I'm going to subject you all to a long post where I set out current feelings on all the recent discussion. Nightkill discussion First of all - the discussion about "why didn't scum kill [x] during the night  " is, at this point, just redundant, I think? As wologar pointed out pretty much immediately (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=6#post524554966) it just makes sense for one of the least active posters to get eliminated. I really don't think it's worth drawing much conclusions from a single kill choice at this stage (apart from to underline how important it is for people not to become so low-content that they're an easy, no-information-giving kill, as I pointed out here https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=205962&perpage=40&pagenumber=1#post524557827)I think some of this exploration is simply talking through something, but I also suggest that an undue focus on irrelevancies is a scumtell (boosts post count/activity without sticking neck out with an opinion of any consequence). Scum reads: Bucnasti I'm trying to separate out how much my opinion here is tainted by the immediate vote against me. Because I know I'm town, my reaction is very much "But...voting *me* out would be a scum move!". Which is, of course, what MSRR must have thought about me. State of play: - Making a bad case against me (Like - it's just a bad case. Nobody really seems to disagree with it being a bad case. Making a bad case doesn't make somebody scum, but it doesn't look good) Making a poor case against somebody in order to affirm that you're pretty sure they're scum is a scumtell, surely. (source: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=189004#post524555164 and other posts where Bucnasti felt the case was strong enough to be 'confident' I'm scum despite it clearly not being a good case) - "Revealing" the masonry and claiming this was "putting a big old target on myself for both sides" (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=189004#post524556615) and further implying that the masonry in some way implied they're town, the alternative being that they are scum "playing crazy 4D chess" (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=189004#post524558265). I've said it before, I'll say it again - the masonry has no impact on whether Bucnasti is scum or not, it's a null value. - Doing the old "I now don't really think this person is scum but I'm going to keep my vote there anyway" thing, which is somewhat understandable day 1, but in my view starts to stink exponentially more as the game goes on (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=189004#post524558265) (Exact quote: "All that said my vote is still on Green Wing, I'm starting to doubt that more and more, but nobody else has been presented as a possible candidate, and until I have a better target I will continue my quest for masonic vengeance.") - Now starting to shift from me to Plastic (but wasn't the first to do this - making a post declaring general intent to back Plastic being voted out, but only after HCT did) https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=9#post524591568 - In the same post quoted above, suggested that the fact Plastic is still alive suggests that he might be scum (as stated above, I think this is a weak scumtell as it gives undue focus on an irrelevancy) - This might be on my part, but I don't believe this post where Bucnasti suggests confusion at the votecount. It's clear that my name is written twice, crossed out on Bucnasti and Cloacamazing. I don't believe this could have been missed. I wonder if this is a performance of confusion in order to deflect. (source: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=189004#post524587840)Overall verdict: Weak scum read. Strongest scum tell is recent post related to suspicion on plastic, while keeping vote on me (which is a very weak case anyway). However, such play (and the recent confusion re: vote count) could easily be genuine uncertainty. PlasticAutomaton God, I hate this. I don't like the idea of voting out somebody for mostly lurking, especially after apparently this kind of posting on early days isn't unusual for the player. (I'm sure two people pointed this out, one of which has played in a game with Plastic before, but only have wologar's reference to it here as my source. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=8#post524579572) - Has been super active in another Mafia game while not being active in this one. I'm trying not to invite a suggestion to discuss that game, ahhhhh, but This for me, is a mixed bag. That game is on a much later day, but post history is fair game because it's just behavioural analysis, right? Last post in this game: 00:03 on 2/7 (43 hours ago). Since making that post in this thread (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=4004626&pagenumber=8&perpage=40#post524561230), has posted 39 times in the other game, the latest being at 05:02 on 3/7 (14 hours ago). - I will also note that Plastic was very quick to pop in to tell me I'm wrong about masons, which I think was just him being civil, but suggests he is actively reading the thread and post less. (source: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=7#post524556796) (posted 4 minutes after I made an incorrect assumption about masons) - Called me as town early and encouraged me to keep up the energy on Day 1 (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=219707#post524524749) which, sure - I like it, I am town, but also might just have been an attempt to butter me up ( ) By the same token, also made sure to tell NeverHelm they made a 'very good post' (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=219707#post524525035) which - scum buttering up? Or just being civil?- Makes a vague read of one of caffeineatedjerkoff's posts before going radio silent again (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=4004626&pagenumber=8&perpage=40#post524561220) Overall verdict: I still hate it. However, gathering up my thoughts like this has led me to start to talk myself into voting for Plastic. I'm going to go for Scum Read, modulo Limited Content. Our deadline has been extended by 24 hours, I'm unwilling to be secure in this read until Plastic has the opportunity to put more in. Null reads: Cloacamazing! I wasn't prodding you with the expectation you post immediately, I know people have to sleep  Am I the only person who sees this? Am I going crazy? Why isn't Cloacamazing getting more attention? Like I said in my previous post on this matter (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=4004626&pagenumber=8&perpage=40#post524560003) I didn't particularly like her Day 1 input (I thought it met the definition of 'active lurking' and that the vote against me could have been a designed move to distance herself away from the MSRR vote, which would be a good move if she knew it was going to turn up Town). Here's the read on her Day 2 posts: - Reads me as town (right and correct choice) (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=222744#post524567615) and then Bucnasti as town, with caveats (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=222744#post524573225). Makes no clear suggestion of who might be scum - does not stick neck out. "Active lurking". - That's...about it. Overall verdict: I really feel like at this point I need to see some active "I think this person might be scum" from people to feel better about them, not just "I think these people are town" (even if one of them is me). I think making the latter type of posts, especially if at least one of those people is town, is designed to reassure the townies being set out as town, provide visibility, while not sticking neck out. No read. Withholding judgement until I see an actual suggestion of who Cloacamazing thinks is scum. If this isn't forthcoming with reasoning, scum read. The whole "content without risk"/"active lurking" thing I think can be levied to a lesser extent at others. Caffeinated Jerkoff - Has had a little too much focus on the nightkill (see my point on 'nightkill discussion'). I'm not the only person to point out this is a little peculiar. Overall verdict: Withholding judgement until I see an actual suggestion of who CJ thinks is scum. If this isn't forthcoming with reasoning, scum read. Jadecore - Pretty active. - Is American, but watches Wimbledon. As an Englishwoman who watches MLB and NFL, I feel affinity. Withholding judgement until I see an actual suggestion of who Jadecore thinks is scum. If this isn't forthcoming with reasoning, scum read. The more posts that get posted without a suspicious finger being pointed at somebody, the more I think this is under-the-radar flying. Hyper Crab Tank - I think LupusAter makes a good point that HCT talking so much about scum motives is suspicious (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=9#post524594318). To elaborate, I'd go so far to say that overthinking and overexplaining possible scum motives at this early stage suggest a certain amount of thought has been put into who to kill. - As I went into Day 1, made some errors against wologar that were explained as a mistake - but was it? Or was it a clumsy way to plant seeds of suspicion? (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=4004626&pagenumber=4&perpage=40#post524508699) - I keep coming back to this line in one of HCT's posts. "This could mean that Re-Reg and Plastic are both scum and Re-Reg was trying to deflect attention away from Plastic. But honestly? I'm not sure at all. Am I being suckered into bandwagoning onto Re-Reg by Green Wing? I can't rule that out, either." (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=208356#post524519438) This, to me, smacks of planting seeds for the next day. Wanting to downplay support for the MSRR vote while not outright speaking against it, while planting doubt against me as well. Appeared to be still considering possibly following Bucnasti with this on 1/7 (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=208356#post524559848) ("None of this means I really buy that we need to target Green Wing today, though. I mean, maybe."). Implies with the 'today' that HCT may want to target me on a future day. - Makes the vote on Plastic while also hedging with the vote. (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=208356#post524589135). This is a more interesting null read, because the inclusion of a vote and some suspicion being thrown hasn't reassured me. Also, I think HCT being scum is mutually exclusive with Plastic being scum (or there is some excellent misdirection going on). I don't think a scum would second-vote a scumbuddy on Day 2 with only 6 votes needed to eliminate, especially given the amount of groundwork HCT has built in against Plastic. If Plastic is town, I think HCT is scum. Overall, null read because I can't deny I'm more suspicious of Plastic. cuntman.net - Like I'll be honest this is the most neutral of neutral reads. There's stuff here, I disagree with some of it, I agree with some of it. I...I've got nothing. I'm running out of steam here. Null read, trending town? wologar - You know what, the main reason I'm inclined not to think wologar is scum is making a post that says "Funny thing is, before these news I was thinking who I'd execute If I was scum and I landed on AFancyQuestionMark or Bucnasti because they were the only ones that didn't confront anyone directly and didn't arise explicit suspicion on themselves. Better to leave town to self-destruct, I guess." immediately after the day start. Yes, hypothesizing about scum motives for nightkills at this stage is a mug's game, or even suspicious - but setting out how you would have executed somebody during the night, and coming to the conclusion you would kill the person who was killed, and posting that as soon as the new day starts - well that would be so loving ballsy for scum that I can't believe scum would do it. (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=208378#post524554966) - Possibly seems to switch from "PA disappearing seems to be par for the course" (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=208378#post524579572) to "actually I will vote PA" (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=208378#post524594129) in the space of 18 hours. I admit, this seems closer together because I'm reading all these posts at once. I can't say that this is a scum read because, again, I also am suspicious of PA (see above), but it gives me enough pause to put wologar in the null read pile. Townie reads LupusAter - Makes short and sweet posts, willing to stick neck out more than I think scum would (voted MSRR, willing to state suspicion against HCT [it helps that this is a suspicion I share]) Weak townie read. So weak it's almost a null read, but I think that's more down to me. Neverhelm - To be honest, this is mostly because they seem to think along similar lines to me. Weak townie read (I think it's impossible to have a strong townie read at this stage)
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Jul 3, 2022 20:02
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Green Wing posted:Also, I think HCT being scum is mutually exclusive with Plastic being scum I'd just like to point out there is a third option (and I hope just defending myself doesn't come off as being scum, because come on, town also needs to defend itself from itself): It's possible I'm misreading Plastic's erratic posting and he's just like that, and we're both town but I'm loving up my reads. The sad truth is it's slim pickings in terms of really good, solid leads and the main reason I've homed in on Plastic is because of his reluctance to  all the way back from day 1.However, more importantly: Green Wing posted:- I think LupusAter makes a good point that HCT talking so much about scum motives is suspicious I think this logic is completely backwards. Scum are the ones who have all the information and can discuss their options before committing to anything. As town, we have to assume scum are making the best decisions they can and that their decisions aren't just random - or at very least, scum's actions are considerably less random than town, which has to guess (especially day one). So talking about scum motives is the strongest path we have to success right now short of pulling some power rules out our rears (and I don't think we should start claiming already). We have to consider what scum would do, or should do, under certain conditions and then compare those actions to the ones actually taken. In fact, I'm growing increasingly suspicious of the people trying to insist that this is not an avenue we should pursue, while simultaneously not offering any other solutions! In other words, LupusAter and, I'm sorry, this includes you, Green Wing. All you're doing is asserting that trying to scumhunt is "suspicious" without much justification - and also note that there's a big difference between "useless" and "suspicious". I would not be saying any of this if you just thought it was a waste of time, although I have to point out that lurking is worse in that regard. Why do you find it specifically suspicious?
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Jul 3, 2022 20:21
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wologar posted:Yep, it's not a convincing case, but it's the best option I see at the moment. It would be nice to hear more from cuntman, Caffeinated Jerkoff and Cloacamazing. ive posted my thoughts on plastic automaton before, tldr is that the only reason im suspicious is the post that seemed to be a justification for not posting much. im leaning towards voting for him but he offered to post a claim and i'd like to see that before i vote
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Jul 3, 2022 20:24
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:
Because it suggests an outsized amount of thought has been put into that decision compared to those of us who are town. Scum have an extra 24 hours of discussion and thought to draw on and, while they will be trying not to refer to those thoughts in their posts, I think that it's possible those will leak in - in having spent time thinking about the choice, the reaction to that choice, and the different views amongst the scum from whatever discussion they had, it would occupy an outsized space in their thoughts, as it appears to have done with you. Also I literally just wrote a post in which I set out by reads on everybody, my reasons for those, and the two people who at the moment I get a scum read from so uh. "Simultaneously not offering any other solutions" is a bit...peculiar.
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Jul 3, 2022 20:26
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I don't know what's so outsized about it. Like I said, I consider it a strong tool in our toolbox. So, yes, I have been thinking a lot about what scum would do. And I have been posting a lot about it, too. That's not thoughts "leaking in", that's me outright bringing it up (because I think it's useful to do so). For the second thing, I mostly mean LupusAter there. Right now I'm leaning more towards you (Green Wing) being town but jumping at shadows a little too much. Mostly though I just want you to realize that trying to downplay discussion of a topic is in itself suspicious, as I feel you're trying to do.
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Jul 3, 2022 20:33
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cuntman.net posted:ive posted my thoughts on plastic automaton before, tldr is that the only reason im suspicious is the post that seemed to be a justification for not posting much. im leaning towards voting for him but he offered to post a claim and i'd like to see that before i vote Oh dang he offered to post a claim? I missed that in catching up. A little bit of ctrl=F and...ok here's an addendum to my PA read PlasticAutomaton posted:
(My emphasis added) That's...oof, I don't know what to make of that. This is a softclaim, right? I took a gander at the wiki a couple days ago, and (again, emphasis added): http://mafiawiki.notesmash.org/wiki/Roleclaim posted:Softclaim: If a player only implies they have a role, or otherwise that they have role-based information, that is called a softclaim. For instance, a cop with a scum result saying, "I dunno, I just really think Player is scum! Call it a hunch!" is the canonical softclaim. Softclaims are really annoying. They require players to trust another's judgment about the accuracy of their role results; they can cause the death of a townie without the townie being able to properly defend themselves (often resulting in the townie fullclaiming unnecessarily); and they allow scum to imply something but then retroactively say they didn't mean to come off as implying anything, "I just really thought Player was scum! Sorry!" Likewise softclaiming too early puts a target on your back for nightkills, since the mafia now know that you're a power role. Thanks for pointing that out, cuntman. That's, like. Ok. Ok, right. The question then becomes would PA, mafia vet, (if townie) be so brazen to openly suggest that they have a power role, thus putting himself in the firing line on only the 2nd day? Or is it more likely he's Scum trying to spook This was done before he had any votes on him, so...yeah, I'll call that bluff. Having had this pointed out, scum read on PA is now stronger. And, honestly - I need to practice what I preach, I've previously stated suspicion at people for not voting along with their suspicions, so ##vote PlasticAutomaton.
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Jul 3, 2022 20:38
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Green Wing posted:Because it suggests an outsized amount of thought has been put into that decision compared to those of us who are town. Scum have an extra 24 hours of discussion and thought to draw on and, while they will be trying not to refer to those thoughts in their posts, I think that it's possible those will leak in - in having spent time thinking about the choice, the reaction to that choice, and the different views amongst the scum from whatever discussion they had, it would occupy an outsized space in their thoughts, as it appears to have done with you. i dont agree with this. "if i were scum, what would i do here?" is the probably the single question that everyone is asking themselves the most and i dont see why it wouldnt apply to the night phase as well i agree that there probably isnt much benefit from putting a ton of thought into who the scum didnt kill because i dont think it leads us anywhere, but im in the "useless but not suspicious" camp
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Jul 3, 2022 20:40
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:In fact, I'm growing increasingly suspicious of the people trying to insist that this is not an avenue we should pursue, while simultaneously not offering any other solutions! In other words, LupusAter and, I'm sorry, this includes you, Green Wing. All you're doing is asserting that trying to scumhunt is "suspicious" without much justification - and also note that there's a big difference between "useless" and "suspicious". I would not be saying any of this if you just thought it was a waste of time, although I have to point out that lurking is worse in that regard. Why do you find it specifically suspicious? Answering for myself: it's true, scumhunting is cool and good and something everyone should do. The thing that makes this tilt towards suspicion is that this reading into what the scum did and didn't do is a perfectly good way to look at things later in the game, when there are actual patterns to be seen. Harping on it right now makes you look like you're doing something useful while also providing with little substantial insight, making this some perfectly plausible deniability for later. Now, I am not going to accuse you because of stuff you haven't done yet, but this could be a very good bit of setting up credibility for later. Or you could just be town and a bit too in love with a theory.
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Jul 3, 2022 20:41
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Eh, neither of my scum reads at the moment rely on that argument in any case. HCT is still a null read as listed, despite this. But I stand by my assertion that producing posts about irrelevancies is a suspicious act, as it provides a cloak.
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Jul 3, 2022 20:43
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LupusAter posted:Answering for myself: it's true, scumhunting is cool and good and something everyone should do. The thing that makes this tilt towards suspicion is that this reading into what the scum did and didn't do is a perfectly good way to look at things later in the game, when there are actual patterns to be seen. Harping on it right now makes you look like you're doing something useful while also providing with little substantial insight, making this some perfectly plausible deniability for later. Now, I am not going to accuse you because of stuff you haven't done yet, but this could be a very good bit of setting up credibility for later. Or you could just be town and a bit too in love with a theory. All right, that's fair. I don't agree, but it's fair. But then, I want to hear from the rest of y'all. I think I've said everything that's on my mind for now, I'm dying to hear some other theories from those of you who aren't posting as much.
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Jul 3, 2022 20:45
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Green Wing posted:
Eh, I never said I wouldn't vote him. In fact, in the same post you quoted (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=208378#post524579572) I said I would still vote him for the replacement/role stuff. It's just that him disappearing has little weight in my decision to do so.
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Jul 3, 2022 20:50
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wologar posted:Eh, I never said I wouldn't vote him. In fact, in the same post you quoted (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004626&userid=208378#post524579572) I said I would still vote him for the replacement/role stuff. It's just that him disappearing has little weight in my decision to do so. Ok yeah my mistake. I started to lose steam towards the end there, possibly trying to do one all-read megapost was overambitious. For what it's worth, I still think that this is based on a misconception and I don't think veterancy will have played into role/alignment distribution.
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Jul 3, 2022 20:54
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I don't think veterancy played a role, either. What I think happened is the following: 1. Game filled up. 2. Mods distributed roles randomly. 3. Someone ghosted discord. 4. Mods found out that the person that ghosted had an important role (scum? doctor?). 5. Game couldn't start without this role. Every other role had already been distributed and discord channels created. Solution? Wait for a replacement to appear. 6. PlasticAutomaton came to the rescue. So, to be clear, I've got nothing against Plastic as a person. I would have been suspicious about anyone else in his situation. My extra wariness came from the fact that Plastic is a veteran and, if scum, could imbalance the game against town with his experience.
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Jul 3, 2022 20:59
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Green Wing posted:Jadecore At request, I can help with that! I haven't been really laying that out because... well, frankly, my reads are weak. Like, in your provided reasoning in this post, you have a lot of "I don't know" and "It's very weak but here it is", and my inclination when I don't have enough to be at least somewhat confident is to not throw it out there, or offer my consideration more directly related to lines of logic or inquiry. But I'm happy to share thoughts on request. PlasticAutomaton is the candidate with the most DIRECT evidence on him that I think holds up. But that just isn't that much evidence, and I don't buy a veteran complimenting newbies on their posting style as a move you can get any sort of read out of. The closest I can get is a scenario where he's scum and that being a "breaking character" moment to encourage these new town players for well reasoned arguments, like an antagonist in a show who's actually trying to stealth mentor the heroes and lead them to developing into stronger fighters. "Strike me down and become true warriors" or something. And that's taking a lot of creative liberty. That being said, it's undeniable Plastic is the most easily seen lurker here between saying he'll do a big post then not following through due to irl excuses (including a hinted roleclaim? please produce), offering advice and clarifications about mechanics and roles to the thread at large without saying much about the actual gameplay, and just the general presence of a veteran. As I've said, Plastic is the person I want to see more from the most in this game in terms of some sorta substantial contribution. Caffeinated Jerkoff has seemed just weirdly confident and determined in their theory on why AFancyQuestionMark was offed with minimal evidence. And that's pretty much the only thing they've talked about period: theories of the scum's mindset and logic, like some kind of true crime podcast. That self-assurance with minimal content that I don't even agree with AND that we should really move past rather than relying on as a debate point because there's not much meaningful I think we can get out of it is just odd behavior. Cloacamazing feels like a bit like Caffeinated but with... well I was going to say less posting but I checked the counter and they're equal with each other as I write this post. I know that life stuff can make getting up to a requested number hard, but I distinctly remember "and that should make 10, boy this is hard" being the content of their last day 1 post, which doesn't help at all for getting a read. She's stuck to the same conversation topics too, just having less standout confidence in the matter than Caffeinated. HyperCrabTank cast the first voting stone at the person most players collectively are worried about while also putting a lot of emphasis on "idk though". Relatable, but I know I don't have the confidence to place my vote yet without getting something more out of Plastic, unless we start coming down to the wire at which point said silence becomes fairly damning. They made a pretty convincing and detailed argument about why Bucnasti is probably town, which I agree with, and this is the closest to a null read of all of these. So in short, Plastic is the number one in my mind but I want to hear more, and Caffeinated is my number two. ...god drat it and I hit preview and a bunch more posts came in. Why do I take so long to write these? Uh... okay, skimming over them, HCT's vibes these last few posts seem weird to me but that isn't a strong reason, aaaand I don't really want to use "is the veteran" as reasoning criteria for why we should flip Plastic but it still is the thing that makes him the most visible and can't really be extricated from anything else he does. There.
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Jul 3, 2022 21:13
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Since I've been called out for reads a couple of times now: Bucnasti - Slightly mafia. Mostly posted mechanical questions D1. D2 instant vote is a strange move, and pivoting into a role claim from there didn't really decrease suspicion. Nobody contested the role claim, so it's probably true? But since it's unconfirmed mason, it doesn't really point town or mafia. Cloacamazing! - Probably mafia. All of her posts have been either mechanical explanations, filling postcount for the sake of postcount, or explaining why all of her posts fit the former two categories. Hasn't placed suspicion on anyone, or posted any theories. cuntman.net - Slightly mafia. Responds to other people's theories a lot, asks a lot of questions. Asking questions is good, but I haven't seen him take any particular stance on any of the things he's asked questions about. That's a little suspicious. Green Wing - Probably town. Posts theories, questions, and reasoning consistently. Gets a little carried away with theories/suspicions, but generally sensible enough to acknowledge when that's happening. If she's mafia, her posts are an incredible smokescreen. Hyper Crab Tank - Slightly town. Has posted theories, suspicions, questions. Nothing particularly stand-out suspicious in their posting. Jadecore - Slightly town. Has posted theories, accusations. Unvoted from MSRR to prevent an early hammer drop- either a town indicator or a scum rep-building move. Based on the rest of her posts, I'm leaning towards town indicator. LupusAter - Probably mafia. Aside from agreeing with the MSRR vote, most of his posts have been countering others' arguments and reasoning. He was the first to say Bucnasti's role claim was probably true, with slight implication in that post that Bucnasti is also town. Also critical of the case against Plastic. Might just be a 'justice for the underdog' type, but my read right now is probably mafia. NeverHelm - Probably town. Posts theories and reasoning, isn't shy about accusing people who seem suspicious. PlasticAutomaton - Probably mafia. Positioned himself as the local veteran player, then moved to leverage that status as an excuse to post less. No theories or reasoning, only excuses, jokes, and rules clarification. PlasticAutomaton posted:Hi, Mafia Dad here, I do need to step in and correct one misconception about this.  Jokes aside, I do think his low-content posting is a mafia indicator. wologar - Slightly mafia. Lot of neutral/information posts, but started posting more theories and accusations day 2. Could be following the flow of the thread voting for Plastic to avoid sticking out? Difficult to get a read on them. Maybe I'm just wearing myself down trying to go through everyone's posts. I'm leaning towards voting PlasticAutomaton for D2, but I'd like to see them defend themselves before making a decision. That said, I assume they're going to be primarily pointing the vote at me as their defense. By my own criteria, I probably fall into the Slightly mafia category. I hope I can stay in the game long enough to improve that impression.
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Jul 3, 2022 22:52
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Lists seem to be the Cool Thing right now, so let's give it a shot: PlasticAutomaton: Probably scum. I've said why several times since day one. LupusAter: Leaning scum. Appears to defend Plastic and not much else. Caffeinated Jerkoff: Leaning scum. Last big post was the first one where I saw a real attempt at scumhunting. Cloacamazing: Leaning scum just for lack of content. cuntman.net: Leaning scum. Participates but what he says doesn't help move the game much. Jadecore: Null. Actually leaning both sides, but that balances it out Bucnasti: Leaning town. I'm not sure if I completely buy his game-related questions, but adding that to his general demeanor makes it consistent with confused town. Green Wing: Probably town. Scum-hunts a lot and her masonry mistake is unlikely for scum. NeverHelm: Probably town. Has been silent for a long time but weekend happens. Their previous content was very useful for town. Hyper Crab Tank: Probably town. Their way of thinking resembles mine in many points. Ordered from scummiest to towniest.
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Jul 3, 2022 23:31
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##unvote At this stage I think literally everybody has said that plastic is the most suspicious player and have either indicated that they're leaning towards voting for him, have voted for him, or have listed him as the most suspicious. Either a very early bus or this is MSRR all over again. Unwilling to leave my vote on overnight without considering what might be going on, in the morning. (considering it only needs another 3 to pass)
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Jul 4, 2022 01:25
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Green Wing posted:##unvote "Everyone, including me, agrees that Plastic is the most suspicious player. Thus, I'm unvoting him." ??? How is this a "very early bus" when Day 2 started two days ago? Plus, a bus implies that scum are sacrificing one of their own, so how would it be a bad idea to go along with it? I may need to revise my earlier list.
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Jul 4, 2022 03:03
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Okaaay, wow I've missed a lot. First off, before I forget. ##vote: Wologar Their entire argument is not based on the state of the game, or on my actual posting, but on speculation about what Shell would call in a replacement for and paranoia that I'm going to somehow run the game as scum. And this is a drum they keep going back to rather than reading the game because it's nice and convenient. The first time, I thought it was healthy paranoia. The second and third time, it becomes much less convincing as an actual argument. I don't think he's seriously looking for scum. I will agree that I've been actively lazy as gently caress and not posting though. That's on me. I have some thoughts, need a little bit to get to my head together. (Hours instead of days or vanishing again, just waiting for this excedrin to kick in) Since everyone's doing lists, gonna put Green Wing, Bucnasti, and Jadecore on the town list at this point. They seem to be the most interested in actually solving the game and digging into it.
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Jul 4, 2022 03:16
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Figures. I know it's a long way from now but I don't mind being eliminated as long as that helps town root out the scum team. Green Wing pinged me with loud sirens after her last post, but I'm still giving her the benefit of the doubt because of her posting until then.
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Jul 4, 2022 03:33
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wologar posted:"Everyone, including me, agrees that Plastic is the most suspicious player. Thus, I'm unvoting him." Unamity bad, means scum is definitely in on the vote. If PA is scum then it has to be a bus. Deadline is on two days, hence feeling of that being early (feels earlier to me because of absence, in any case) Literally just said I wasn't willing to leave the vote on overnight and would look at it again in the morning (this isn't that, this is me waking up at 4am and checking the thread out of curiosity before going back to sleep). Still going to do that. This is a weird post. Feels very clear to me why it bring unanimous is bad. Going back to bed.
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Jul 4, 2022 04:06
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Green Wing posted:Unamity bad, means scum is definitely in on the vote. If PA is scum then it has to be a bus. s/vote/side of the discussion, you know what I mean
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Jul 4, 2022 04:16
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My current thoughts: Bucnasti: Probably town mason like they claim. Nobody else has come forward to dispute the mason part at least and I think that scum would have at least made a token effort to keep MSRR in the game if they could influence them through the mason chat. Caffeinated Jerkoff: Not much to go on here, aside from voting for MSRR on the first day. Kind of neutral there. They do throw out a lot of suspicion, so if I had to pick, I'd lean scum. cuntman.net: Not much to go on here. Green Wing: Probably townie. She's still throwing out a lot of suspicions (and votes!), but it's always backed with a lot of reasoning, so I'll go with my gut-feeling of excited townie here. Hyper Crab Tank: I think townie, but that might be because they seem to think along the same lines I do as regards to speculating on the scum's motivations. Jadecore: Hard to get a read on, despite them posting a lot. Could go either way. Lupus Ater: Slightly leaning scum there for the insistence we shouldn't think too much about why the scum chose to kill AFancyQuestionMark. NeverHelm: They were one of the people pushing for MSRR on Day 1, but nothing else suspicious comes to mind. Kind of neutral here. Plastic Automaton: I think the Mafia Dad people have mentioned was a joke in the lines of "veteran player here", but he's not really posting anything, only hinting at stuff. Could just means he's bored, could mean scum busy in the mafia chat. Now he just popped in, voted, and left again with the promise of posting in the future. Probably the most suspicious one so far, but him getting a decent amount of votes seems to suggest otherwise? wologar: Reads townish to me, there's some good speculation. I disagree with the idea that the missing player has to have an important role and Plastic Automaton was brought in for that purpose. The game was supposed to have 13 players, even missing a townie would change the balance. I don't really have any good scum reads at this point. Think I'll take advantage of the longer deadline and not vote just yet.
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Jul 4, 2022 06:09
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| # ? Apr 16, 2024 18:51 |
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wologar posted:"Everyone, including me, agrees that Plastic is the most suspicious player. Thus, I'm unvoting him." My initial reaction was the same as yours, but thinking about it, I think Green Wing has a point. Before Green Wing's unvote, 3 people voted Plastic, 5 were leaning towards voting Plastic but wanted to see evidence, LupusAter seemed unlikely to vote Plastic, and Cloacamazing! hadn't posted yet. I think Green Wing wanted to avoid the scenario where 3 of those 5 undecided posters are scum and could collaborate to vote out Plastic. In that scenario Plastic would be town, so the mafia would get another 2-elimination round. Dodging that and having another day of discussion seems worthwhile.
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Jul 4, 2022 07:10
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