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H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
Engine hoists with preposterous cheater bar extensions? :v:

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tangy yet delightful
Sep 13, 2005



Seems like no-one can finish building stairs in DIY/HCH :v:

Maybe you can cobble together a wooden tripod and suspend the beam from that?

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

As a woodworker (hobbyist) I will promote templating as always, always being worth it. In other words, to the maximum extent possible, do your weird angle stuff in cardboard or 1/8" door skin or similar before committing to cuts on expensive wood.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
Well where were we.

This is the master bedroom after pulling the tape. All it needs at this point is trim, a few more outlet plates, and a closet door. I haven't hosed with it at all since then.


I started putting up a few bales of insulation in the basement ceiling every evening right before showering and calling it a night.



And then it was time to bust the seal, pass the point of no return, etc etc etc on the stair railing project. Once I drilled these holes that was it, I have to put the railing up, and I have to put it up where I drilled them.


I finally ran out of guts and posted a rant on a woodworking group I'm in on fb. Mostly for commiseration, because just like the rest of you everyone in woodworking is terrified of stairs unless it's all they do, but a goddamn balustrade wizard just waltzed into my thread and dropped the answer on me like it was no big deal. Turns out what the pros do is build a temp Newell post basically out of junk wood and mount it to the stairs by running a big deck screw down into the hole for one of the balusters. That was the magic I was missing - how the gently caress do I attach my supports to my finished stairs without putting screw holes in them? Well this is how.

So with that in mind I bought $8 worth of home depot's finest 2x3s and dug into my bin of used deck screws and random odds and ends and scabbed some supports together. 20 minutes later I was on my way. I wish I'd asked them sooner. I owe that guy a beer.


But don't worry, ratchet straps are still involved because my length of railing sat on a shelf so long it sagged a little and needed to be pulled straight till the balusters are holding it in place.

With that it was time to make what's called a pitch block. NORMALLY, that just means cut a right angle into a piece of scrap wood, slide it into one of the stairs, put a ruler across the tread noses, scribe a line and cut on it. But this being The Slanty Shanty, of course it wasn't that simple, because the Newell post is tipped 0.9° away from the stairs. So I stacked a bunch of heavy flat stuff on top of the Newell post, put my future pitch block on top of it, slid it over until my longest precision straightedge would make a triangle not an irregular trapezoid thing, scribed my line and cut it.

The way you use a pitch block to get your starting easing (or turnout, I'm going to just call it an easing from here on) cut is first you put the easing on a nice flat surface with the face that will contact the Newell post down. Hold it down, then put your pitch block under the curved section with the tread face on the flat work surface. Mark the tangent line (this can be hard if the easing is a gradual sweep not a tight radius one.). Flip the pitch block onto its riser face such that the nosing tangent line (hypotenuse) is now perpendicular to the easing curved section if you line it up on the tangent mark you made, line it up exactly like that, and mark it.

For the next step it's easiest (i.e. even remotely possible) if you carefully get the bottom face of the easing flat on the hypotenuse of the pitch block such that the cut line you marked is perfectly in contact with the table of your miter saw, and tape it in place so it doesn't go all cattywompus when you try and hold it in the saw. Also you'll want to extend the fence of the saw so that the widest part of the railing can be held parallel to it. I just used a scrap of finish grade 1x6 and screwed it to the fence.

Take a deep breath and make the $150 cut. I chickened out and cut it on the same angle but about 1/8" long so I could go hold it up to my railing and eyeball to see if I was getting it right. I was, so I cut it on the line and prayed to every deity plus a few I invented for the occasion:


Looks good! Tangent fit came out great. The profile of the easing and railing isn't exactly the same but it never is. That's what sandpaper is for.


Hold it up and it looks good.


That means it's time to install the rail bolt that holds the two pieces together, along with some glue.


And test fit. Looks good. Glue is next.


Yes, I know that easing faces the "wrong" way. We decided that was the lesser of all evils. I am severely lacking room here, due to this being a 140 year old house with no codes existing when it was built. I had to put the railing at this position because it means that the walking room in the area to the left of the stairs is 1/4" under code minimum, while the walking room on the stairs themselves is ALSO 1/4" under code minimum. That's with the smallest standard handrail. To make all of this meet code at once I would have had to knock out a weight bearing wall (again) and move the foundation wall outward. So the compromise was made that the stairs will be very close to the required width (and much better than they were) and the hallway walking room will be very slightly under required width, and this easing was the only way to accomplish that without ripping up the Newell post... And the subflooring... And doing the flooring in yet another room. Basically I hate this house.

If you slide down this railing you meet a wall face first at the bottom nearly immediately across from them - like, the bottom tread nosing is exactly 36" from the opposing wall - so uh, don't do that, your rear end hitting the easing that faces the wrong way at the bottom will be the least of your problems.

I'm thinking I'm going to do metal railings on the new place. This is a ridiculous pain because fitup is so very critical. If I cut things wrong by 1/8" doing metal stairs I just weave that weld more, flap wheel it, and pretend no one saw it. I can't weld wood longer again and that's lame.

Darchangel
Feb 12, 2009

Tell him about the blower!


kastein posted:

I can't weld wood longer again and that's lame.

This is wisdom of the ages.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

There are, actually, ways to make wood longer, but they involve using paint at the end to hide your shame. Also I think that easing pointing the wrong way is something almost nobody will ever notice.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
I've had multiple people mention it as soon as I posted the picture :lol:

Figured I'd just nip it in the bud here after that. But yeah I don't really view it as a big deal and it would have made getting our bed up the stairs much easier, gives you something to brace your rear end against as you resituate yourself after coming through the doorway kind of sideways and shuffle the furniture sideways so it'll make it up the stairs. It's kind of an annoying door and stairway arrangement.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari
Looks great! Almost there...

Mister Dog
Dec 27, 2005

So, looking at the basement insulation, I think it’s upside down. The vapor barrier should be on the warm side of the wall, or floor in this case. This only caught my eye because this very thing was noted on my own home inspection :cripes:

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
Is the paper even considered vapor barrier? I didn't think it was.

I took the old stuff out because it was absolutely destroyed by vermin but it was done the same way - not that that's an endorsement on this house.

That reminds me, I need to set the dehumidifier up down there. I'm not taking it with me and already put the drain in for it, so might as well.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

kastein posted:

Is the paper even considered vapor barrier? I didn't think it was.

I took the old stuff out because it was absolutely destroyed by vermin but it was done the same way - not that that's an endorsement on this house.

That reminds me, I need to set the dehumidifier up down there. I'm not taking it with me and already put the drain in for it, so might as well.

In my basement, it's paper side up with clear poly sheeting stapled to the bottom for the vapor barrier.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
God loving dammit

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

daslog posted:

In my basement, it's paper side up with clear poly sheeting stapled to the bottom for the vapor barrier.

The only reason to do that is if you're insulating before the subfloor was put down because you think that's easier. Then someone who knows what they're talking about comes along and goes "hey moron, the vapor barrier goes on the bottom - now you need to staple up poly dumbass."

TL;DR: Your basement was done wrong. But they at least tried to fix it. I would not suggest using it as an example of what others should do.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari
Sounds about right for an addition built in the 70s

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004


kastein posted:

God loving dammit

Are you going to be closing up the ceiling?

Hypnolobster
Apr 12, 2007

What this sausage party needs is a big dollop of ketchup! Too bad I didn't make any. :(

Unless it's a particularly damp basement it really doesn't matter too much. If it's for the sake of energy savings in the winter and you're not doing drywall, then facing towards the floor is fine.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

Motronic posted:

The only reason to do that is if you're insulating before the subfloor was put down because you think that's easier. Then someone who knows what they're talking about comes along and goes "hey moron, the vapor barrier goes on the bottom - now you need to staple up poly dumbass."

TL;DR: Your basement was done wrong. But they at least tried to fix it. I would not suggest using it as an example of what others should do.

Well, you were kind snarky on the one so I looked it up.

"Insulation should always get installed with the paper portion facing the inside or the heated part of the house. The insulation mustn’t face the wrong way, as it can lead to mold and water damage. Whether it’s in a crawl space, an attic, garage, or any other unconditioned area, you shouldn’t be able to see the paper after installation. Still, you should be able to see the insulation. "

It's on the internet, so it must be true.

Mister Dog
Dec 27, 2005

kastein posted:

Is the paper even considered vapor barrier? I didn't think it was.

This is a fair point, the Kraft paper is probably more of a vapor retarder than a proper barrier. And anyway, there’s unlikely to be any practical consequences whether it’s applied paper up or down, as the temperature gradient between the floor and the basement will probably never be high enough to lead to significant condensation.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

daslog posted:

Well, you were kind snarky on the one so I looked it up.

"Insulation should always get installed with the paper portion facing the inside or the heated part of the house. The insulation mustn’t face the wrong way, as it can lead to mold and water damage. Whether it’s in a crawl space, an attic, garage, or any other unconditioned area, you shouldn’t be able to see the paper after installation. Still, you should be able to see the insulation. "

It's on the internet, so it must be true.

I'm being snarky because you're using a sample size of one thing that you've seen and not even done yourself to give advice to someone who literally rebuilt an entire house from scratch.

People who have experience with basements like that know better than to leave open face insulation pointed towards them. This is the difference between college kids in a material science class publishing papers and people who have actually built and maintained homes like these for decades.

Is it more efficient to put the kraft face up? In a lab, yes. Does it immediately get filthy, moldy and start falling apart all over your head and whenever you're trying to touch wiring and plumbing overhead in a basement like this that is to remain largely unconditied? Also yes. Wet and falling apart insulation is less efficient in the real world.

Motronic fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Jul 25, 2022

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

Motronic posted:

I'm being snarky because you're using a sample size of one thing that you've seen and not even done yourself to give advice to someone who literally rebuilt an entire house from scratch.

People who have experience with basements like that know better than to leave open face insulation pointed towards them. This is the difference between college kids in a material science class publishing papers and people who have actually built and maintained homes like these for decades.

You are still arguing this?

Paper faces the living space. End of story.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

daslog posted:

You are still arguing this?

Paper faces the living space. End of story.

You have zero experience with this other than google and what someone did to your house. This seems to be indicative of your posting as of late.

Am I just noticing it more or has something in your life happened to cause this need to post authoritatively about things you have virtually no experience with?

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

Motronic posted:

You have zero experience with this other than google and what someone did to your house. This seems to be indicative of your posting as of late.

Am I just noticing it more or has something in your life happened to cause this need to post authoritatively about things you have virtually no experience with?

Citation needed. And personal attacks! Not nice.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
Regardless of direction if this is the gravest sin to date I think he will pass inspection fine.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
Just because I put it that way doesn't actually mean it's right. I don't mind being called out on code compliance, it beats having the actual AHJ tell me I hosed up by a long shot.

That being said, I don't think it's going to matter in this case. The ends of each section are being left totally open and I'm putting it up in no more than 8ft sections due to this house being a pain in the rear end to work on, so there's plenty of space at each end where the insulation overlaps but isn't sealed for it to just let vapor out. There are also plenty of penetrations that I am making next to no attempt to seal.

Personal experience in my bathroom (rev 1, I've now insulated and drywalled it twice due to the first round not meeting my own standards as of 2021...) Leads me to believe that the paper does fuckall for vapor barrier, as that was all I used for vapor barrier in there and it didn't do poo poo.

I am going to keep putting it up paper down for the reason motronic listed - it's easier and doesn't fall on your drat head - and if the next owner or inspector doesn't like it, oh loving well, how much do you want as a discount and would you like me to call masssave for to have it done free and correctly. On second thought, I'm a goddamn idiot for not just calling them myself in the first place. Live and learn.

Oh, and my family came over for a visit today as they're sad I'm about to move as far as I possibly can from them while still remaining in the lower 48. Whoops, sorry...

They took video I guess. This was in my email when I checked just now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-fgeeZRTBQ

This support post was really showing its age. The whole top was pretty much turning to powder. I knew this one had to be replaced first so it was time.
Before:

After:

Yes, the plate is 1/2" stock and the post collar is 1/8" i.e. as thick as the plates most people use on these columns. It was what I had available on the shelf and I don't think 1/8" is good enough in this application.

I was hoping to not do the rest of the posts but just inspected them and at least 3 HAVE to be done of the 4 remaining. They're not quite this bad but they're close, and they definitely will not pass a buyers home inspection... At least if I was doing it.

I only made 4 new column caps including the one I just used so I'm going to do the worst/most critical 3 and cross my fingers for the fourth.

Oh, also, I made a very large oak buttplug.
Here's the blank I started with. It's made from 7 layers of 1x6 red oak laminated together with gorilla glue. I might have gone a little heavy on the glue... But the c clamps squeezed the extra out nicely.


First, cut one end perfectly flat and square.


Haphazardly sawzall off the corners so it fits on the lathe


Screw a random cast iron tooth belt sprocket to one end as a drive flange and put it in the lathe.


Turn several pounds of it into shavings and throw it all in your face and down your shirt and pants in 95 degree humid weather. Discover you are mildly allergic to red oak via the contact dermatitis on your left forearm where the chips hit you the hardest.


Carry on until it's round.


Getting there...


Done.


See, it has not one but two flares. It's perfectly safe.

Test fit.



I really wish I'd made the top end about 1/2" smaller in diameter but oh well. I've removed the features I used to mount it to the lathe so it is what it is, it's getting used this way.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari
In this market, I don't think a buyer will complain about anything that you're doing. Moving away from the family can be a challenge, but it can also be good for you.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Home inspection? What's that? Everyone's buying sight-unseen these days :psyduck:

Darchangel
Feb 12, 2009

Tell him about the blower!


TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Home inspection? What's that? Everyone's buying sight-unseen these days :psyduck:

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
I guess we'll see. I don't want to rely on someone not inspecting it as I don't feel that's right. Like, I'd rather lose 10 or 20k and be able to sleep soundly knowing I did it right, they inspected it, and it passed than slap poo poo together and let them find it after the fact.

The market is definitely slowing down here a bit but houses are still selling for mid to high 5 figures(!!!) Over listing price as recently as last week, which is loving bonkers to me.

I ordered the specialty dowel screw - I needed a 3/8" 8 inch long one for pull out resistance - YESTERDAY from a place in CT and they shipped it USPS flat rate. It arrived today and I already installed it with the freshly stained extension/buttplug. And my extra long 5/16" hanger screw for the 90 degree return to the upstairs Newell arrived from Amazon as well (you'll see why that was needed later). So now the Newell post is full height and it's time to begin putting this railing together in earnest.

Decoy Badger
May 16, 2009
With respect to the handrail turnout being the wrong direction because of space concerns, wouldn't a vertical volute or termination to a post result in the least interference while looking better and being easier to install? Is this a code thing or maybe I don't understand the layout?

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
I don't think a vertical volute would have helped - I needed the side offset to line the Newell post up with the new handrail centerline. In fact I got very lucky because the standard centerline offset for the turnout I got is within 1/8" of the offset I actually needed, which is close enough to fudge.

Decoy Badger
May 16, 2009
I see, so it's to avoid having to move the Newel post and all the bullshit that would entail.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
Yup.

I would very much like a time machine so I can tell March 2020-me to stop being an idiot and rip the drat Newell post out and redo it. Everything since then would have been much easier that way.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

kastein posted:

I guess we'll see. I don't want to rely on someone not inspecting it as I don't feel that's right. Like, I'd rather lose 10 or 20k and be able to sleep soundly knowing I did it right, they inspected it, and it passed than slap poo poo together and let them find it after the fact.

The market is definitely slowing down here a bit but houses are still selling for mid to high 5 figures(!!!) Over listing price as recently as last week, which is loving bonkers to me.


You are clearly not doing this just for the money, because you would have sold it months (maybe years) ago if you were. Just keep doing your thing and it will all work out.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
Image dump time!

Stained the Newell post extension and installed it once the dowel screws arrived. I only needed one but bought two because I've learned to never buy only as many bolts as I need and STILL paid more for flat rate shipping than my order.

Not a perfect match, do not care. It is what it is.

Now that that was fixed in place I could positively locate the bottom of the balustrade assembly I had already glued together instead of it being theoretically located correctly on the deadwood I set up, so I did.

Then set the upstairs Newell post, which is new, in its place and figured out how much to cut off. Unfortunately I think I overdid it by like half an inch from my perfect visual but oh well it works and if that's the worst mistake I am going to make on this project I can live with that.*
Time for another $100 cut/drill... Hold your breath and pray.


* gently caress. The astute among you will notice that the Newell post has gained some fancy corner detail fluting since the previous picture. That is because some jackass got overconfident after the 1.5" forstner bit hole went perfectly and had An Incident attempting to drill the vertical hole up the bottom of the post with a loving paddle bit to save 30 bucks by returning the unused augur he got. It backfired hard and he had to use the augur bit to correct it AND find a way to hide the fact that he mangled the corners of the Newell post as it flailed around on the floor stuck to the paddle bit. No names will be mentioned to protect the guilty.


"Just use a box wrench or socket and ratchet to tighten this down" says the manual. Whoever wrote that has never seen a ratchet and never had to flip a 12pt box wrench 24 times to get one rotation out of a nut before.


Test fitting, tape layout lines, and drilling for hanger bolts.



Pull most of the tape, install the hanger bolts and tweak them where needed, test fit again. All joints align within the thickness of one piece of masking tape, dry, no bolts tightened. I'm calling that a victory.


All cut, drilled, dry test fit.



Now to disassemble all of it, sand everything, decide which pieces to prestain (definitely the bottom of the starting easing and the rosette for the upstairs wall connection, to avoid making a mess on nearby surfaces, maybe other parts too) then it's time to let it dry and glue and clamp it all.

tangy yet delightful
Sep 13, 2005



By my untrained eye that's looking real good.

Was that bolt hole big enough to stick like an electric ratchet in it or did you actually have to crank it bit by bit (by hand)?

opengl
Sep 16, 2010

What size nut was that? That's like the textbook application of a ratcheting wrench.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
3/4" nut in a 1.5" sideways hole. My ratcheting wrenches are 25 miles away aside from the 1/2" (which I brought home thinking it would fit in the same style hole for the rail bolts... It did not, I had to use needlenose pliers) but I'm going to go get them next time I'm out there in the hopes that you guys are right.

An air ratchet absolutely doesn't fit, sadly, I'd love to buy one. Even a shallow 3/4" socket won't fit in there regardless of what I try to drive it with. It has to be some manner of box wrench and I'm guessing the ratcheting ones are too bulky but hold onto hope regardless because I don't want to flip a drat wrench another several hundred times (or what feels like it, I can't recall how many full turns I had to give the nut to tighten it enough but it was too many) to loosen that nut just to tip the post 2 inches for 15 seconds so I can get the horizontal railing into place, then tighten it back down.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
Ta-loving-da

Since I'm using urethane glue for this, which foams out of joints like crazy, I needed to cover everything around the joints with masking tape to keep cleanup and sanding to a minimum and maintain stainability. (that's a word now)

Then glue, bolt, and clamp it all together.



Wait a few hours till the foaming has stopped and the glue is firm, kind of taffylike consistency, and not tacky anymore but not fully cured, then pull all the tape.



Took out some of the temporary support wood. The ratchet strap and clamps need to stay until I get a few balusters in place in the middle to hold it down because it's got a little arch to it from improper storage over the last year. It'll come back out with time, just annoying.


Next up is sanding, stain, and balusters.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
What's all that stuff on the wall at the top of the stairs?

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nullscan
May 28, 2004

TO BE A BOSS YOU MUST HAVE HONOR! HONOR AND A PENIS!

Washer /dryer hookups?

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