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Serephina posted:Thotsky, you're probably very alone in thinking the temp shock mod is underpowered. May I suggest using it with sticky flames perhaps? I interpreted them to be saying temp shock on frozen targets is underpowered, not temp shock in general. And I see their point: frozen is a status that has the potential to cause a lot more damage than burning, and in a shorter frame. If I'm lining up a hyperprop round or something and someone temp-shocks the target, I'd be a little sad, but wouldn't care at all for a burning target. Also, like you said, it is noticeably easier to reapply burning, what with sticky flames and a ton of sources of constant passive heat like incendiary grenades or magma diffractor trails, whereas cold has to actively be applied in every instance. IIRC, burning enemies spread heat to other enemies nearby, but I dont think frozen bugs do. So yeah, I can see why temp shock going from hot -> cold is good but from cold -> hot isn't as worthwhile.
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# ? Aug 9, 2022 12:07 |
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# ? Mar 28, 2024 17:39 |
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Hwurmp posted:No idea how effective Temperature Amplifier actually is. Usually when cooker causes fire/frozen chain reactions, it's due to T5C. It doesn't just temp shock the bug, it also makes it spread 50 heat/cold to other bugs within 2m, which is enough to immediately freeze/ignite common bugs. I think a lot of players misattribute those chain reactions to temperature amplifier when in reality it's almost always exothermic doing the work, on top of actually getting the value with temp shocks.
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# ? Aug 9, 2022 12:50 |
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Ravenfood posted:I interpreted them to be saying temp shock on frozen targets is underpowered, not temp shock in general. And I see their point: frozen is a status that has the potential to cause a lot more damage than burning, and in a shorter frame. If I'm lining up a hyperprop round or something and someone temp-shocks the target, I'd be a little sad, but wouldn't care at all for a burning target. Also, like you said, it is noticeably easier to reapply burning, what with sticky flames and a ton of sources of constant passive heat like incendiary grenades or magma diffractor trails, whereas cold has to actively be applied in every instance. IIRC, burning enemies spread heat to other enemies nearby, but I dont think frozen bugs do. Yeah I generally agree re. frozen enemies... even aside from the damage bonus you get by leaving them in that state, they're completely disabled by it... so prematurely thawing them is not ideal a lot of the time IMO. It's generally annoying when people temp shock frozen spawners and spitballers as well as sometimes praets, menaces or even guards etc. where a freeze and mag-dump would be both faster and safer. I'd rather they stay frozen unless an instagib is guaranteed. It is useful for some stuff, but less-so than using it with sticky flames.
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# ? Aug 9, 2022 13:28 |
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I tried the EPC/TPF combo and I just cannot figure out how to proc it reliably at all.
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# ? Aug 9, 2022 14:42 |
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Personally I think minimising the charge time and using the faster normal shot speed is a must to begin with at least. I recommend 22222, Improved Charge Efficiency can be a good choice for ammo efficiency in tier 3 but it's harder to use the gun reactively if you have to spool it up for longer (ideally you want to be able to proc it before a mactera has time to finish charging their own shot) so I'd only take that if you have access to the Energy Rerouting clean overclock. Even then I often go for the 0.5s charge time you get from both crystal capacitors and energy rerouting. You can load into an easy game and practice shooting it at bugs at various ranges and while hopping around. Edit: Heat Pipe is still technically good but unless you're really, really careful with it it's super easy to overheat the gun on charge or on the shot immediately after the charge - so I think Energy Rerouting beats it now unless you're incredibly level-headed and have a machine-like sense of timing. You only realistically get a couple more charges out of it anyway due to losing 16 ammo vs ER. Further Edit: I should also mention that the hitbox on the charged shot is pretty spoopy and doesn't always behave how you expect it to. If it keeps blowing up before you have time to proc it that's because it's hitting something and you need to give it a bit more clearance. Shooting up / away / aside a little more than you initially think might help. The damage is applied flatly to anything that has even a whisker inside the 3m sphere, no falloff like other explosives, so you can vaporise a lot more stuff than the terrain cleave itself might suggest. Tommy the Newt fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Aug 9, 2022 |
# ? Aug 9, 2022 15:57 |
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Tommy the Newt posted:prematurely thawing them is not ideal a lot of the time There was a lot in this conversation that I don't have time to weigh in on bit by bit, so I'm going to unfairly single Tommy out here to emphasize something that applies to almost all of these arguments: If you're prematurely thawing targets that have enough health to not die from the resulting temp shock, you are doing it wrong. Every driller build has some option like charged shots on plasma burn EPC which allow you to deal damage without heat. That bad thawing scenario is not something you're locked into and I don't know why people come at this build question like it is. Driller is probably the second most flexible class in the game, leverage that and engage different enemies in different ways Tommy the Newt posted:I'd rather they stay frozen unless an instagib is guaranteed. Again using Tommy as an example of something pretty much everyone seems to be saying, but you already can and should do this in a temp shock build I'm not saying TCF is bad, if you're good at using it than it definitely owns. But these arguments against temp shock are weird and worrying, lol Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Aug 9, 2022 |
# ? Aug 9, 2022 18:09 |
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this whole discussion sprang from someone recommending to pair the cryo cannon with the wave cooker, a combination which almost necessarily means temperature shocking frozen targets without killing them (albeit i don't think they ever responded with their setup for it or the way they like to use it so maybe they tweaked it out a different way) Cowcaster fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Aug 9, 2022 |
# ? Aug 9, 2022 18:12 |
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Yea, so? Unsinkabear's point still stands, use your drills, a power attack, or an axe before temp shocking the praetorian. It's not going anywhere.
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# ? Aug 9, 2022 18:16 |
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You can't not temp shock them with the wave cooker if you have the temp shock mod applied. Wave cooker is what was being discussed in this instance. I'll grant you that you can set it up so that charged shots on the EPC don't do thermal damage, but that's still limiting you in how, and how fast, you can dump damage over a given number of bugs. I still prefer TCF EPC. In terms of damage:ammo efficiency then yeah, being able to temp shock for ammo economy is good. I'm not saying it's a bad way to go by any means- but most of the time I find TCF EPC with Cryo better in terms of damage output and more versatile than thermal EPC with Cryo. You already have a ton of ways of doing damage to frozen bugs while leaving them frozen.
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# ? Aug 9, 2022 18:17 |
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Serephina posted:Yea, so? Unsinkabear's point still stands, use your drills, a power attack, or an axe before temp shocking the praetorian. It's not going anywhere. so: why bring the wave cooker with the cryo cannon
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# ? Aug 9, 2022 18:18 |
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Serephina posted:Yea, so? Unsinkabear's point still stands, use your drills, a power attack, or an axe before temp shocking the praetorian. It's not going anywhere. Yeah, but this still imposes a certain restriction on how you engage and at what range... you can't get your wave cooker out until you've closed distance to do melee damage or burnt an axe? You can TCF things at any time, doing more damage than thermal shock to a frozen target and potentially hitting other things around it, plus it continues to be valuable against non-frozen swarms.
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# ? Aug 9, 2022 18:26 |
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Could you guys do like a karl.gg build for these options because I'm having trouble following them.
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# ? Aug 9, 2022 18:32 |
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Dietrich posted:Could you guys do like a karl.gg build for these options because I'm having trouble following them. For TCF EPC I usually use 22222+Energy Rerouting for the fastest possible charge shots. There are a few ways to build a Plasma Burn EPC for thermal shock - going this route does open up your options with the mods a bit compared to TCF, so you can spec it for higher damage or higher ammo depending on what you're doing.
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# ? Aug 9, 2022 18:45 |
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Or you freeze it, then set it on fire with heavy hitter, then freeze it again.
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# ? Aug 9, 2022 19:28 |
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Sometimes the stars (or salt crystals) align juuuust right. Wish it wasn't crit weakness, that kinda takes away from it but goddamn if Mole shots aren't satisfying. https://i.imgur.com/7zWkHUg.mp4 Fishstick fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Aug 9, 2022 |
# ? Aug 9, 2022 22:28 |
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Fishstick posted:Sometimes the stars (or salt crystals) align juuuust right. Wish it wasn't crit weakness, that kinda takes away from it but goddamn if Mole shots aren't satisfying.
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# ? Aug 9, 2022 22:37 |
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Nitra is a "use it or lose it" resource, right? No reason to let your guns run dry at the end of a mission just so you can head home with 300 nitra in your pockets?
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# ? Aug 9, 2022 22:42 |
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McCracAttack posted:Nitra is a "use it or lose it" resource, right? No reason to let your guns run dry at the end of a mission just so you can head home with 300 nitra in your pockets?
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# ? Aug 9, 2022 22:43 |
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the bonus you get from it at mission's end is pretty negligible, anyways, so mainly it's very much an in-mission thing to spend. no reason not to drop a few pods if you got the nitra. there's achievements for not calling drop pods on missions, iirc, but they're probably not something to try and fish for constantly.
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# ? Aug 9, 2022 22:49 |
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Cool. I've been on missions where we were at 50% ammo and flush with nitra but nobody was calling ammo down. Wondered if I was inadvertently pissing someone off when I just went ahead and did it.
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# ? Aug 9, 2022 22:52 |
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Fishstick posted:Sometimes the stars (or salt crystals) align juuuust right. Wish it wasn't crit weakness, that kinda takes away from it but goddamn if Mole shots aren't satisfying. Also, Mole builds are basically just all about the charge time and ammo since the Mole damage is flat per penetrated item and not a multiplier right? E: is overcharger flat or multiplicative and if the latter when is that multiplier applied? Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Aug 9, 2022 |
# ? Aug 9, 2022 22:52 |
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McCracAttack posted:Nitra is a "use it or lose it" resource, right? No reason to let your guns run dry at the end of a mission just so you can head home with 300 nitra in your pockets? Notably, nitra persists between deep dive stages
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# ? Aug 9, 2022 23:52 |
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Ravenfood posted:
Pretty much. Every piece of terrain you pierce adds a flat 150 kinetic damage, so there's no need to go full charge unless you wanna add some more damage to the one shot. With fast reload and the partial charge you can pop stuff pretty fast if you can find at least one piece of terrain to pierce, and keep the full charges for when you're out in the open. Re: Overcharger, the karl.gg explanation is .... wordy karl.gg posted:After fully charging a shot, every additional 0.25 seconds that you hold the shot will add +8 Kinetic-element Direct Damage to the shot. The Coil Gun can only charge a shot for 2.5 seconds before overheating, and the damage bonus doesn't start getting stacked up until you've fully charged the shot. As a result, Charge Speeds of < 100% can only get a maximum of +40 damage, Charge Speed = 100% can only stack up to +48 damage, and Charge Speed > 100% can get up to +64 damage. For a mole build the faster reload and partial charge shots so you can bop big targets multiple times when the terrain is in your favor is preferred, I think. Edit Also since the coilgun has no weakpoint dmg modifier, you can get away with clipping targets. Praetorian cresting a gentle slope, you can shoot it in the leg through terrain and do full damage Fishstick fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Aug 10, 2022 |
# ? Aug 10, 2022 00:11 |
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BMan posted:Notably, nitra persists between deep dive stages
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# ? Aug 10, 2022 00:16 |
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And don't forget, if you have all that extra nitra, you can call in a supply drop directly on the head of a
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# ? Aug 10, 2022 00:30 |
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Deleting enemies via orbital strike is always fun. I've killed a Nemesis with a Morkite Refinery drop a few days ago. Felt real good.
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# ? Aug 10, 2022 01:06 |
There are those achievements for running a mission without a down and without a supply drop.
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# ? Aug 10, 2022 03:06 |
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Shifty Pony posted:There are those achievements for running a mission without a down and without a supply drop.
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# ? Aug 10, 2022 03:16 |
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Cowcaster posted:so: why bring the wave cooker with the cryo cannon Tommy the Newt posted:Yeah, but this still imposes a certain restriction on how you engage and at what range... you can't get your wave cooker out until you've closed distance to do melee damage or burnt an axe? You can TCF things at any time, doing more damage than thermal shock to a frozen target and potentially hitting other things around it, plus it continues to be valuable against non-frozen swarms. For the record I use heavy hitter as I like the simple ranged dps option on my heat tool, but hearing others poo-poo one of the most busted rear end mods out there is just bizzare.
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# ? Aug 10, 2022 03:40 |
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girl dick energy posted:I can't imagine blindly fishing for those without talking to or specifically looking for a group for it would go well. 1/1 egg hunts are good for it consistently. as well as to just speed run regardless (5-7 minutes?)
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# ? Aug 10, 2022 04:13 |
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girl dick energy posted:I can't imagine blindly fishing for those without talking to or specifically looking for a group for it would go well. I've had it pop up quite a few times organically with randos on haz5 missions. Whenever I notice that we're totally smashing a Point Extraction mission I type in "don't call a RS" for the off chance that someone hasn't gotten the cheevo yet. Occasionally happens on short mining missions and short egg hunts too, but it's usually PE.
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# ? Aug 10, 2022 06:17 |
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Those achievements aren't too hard to get soloing short egg hunts
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# ? Aug 10, 2022 06:19 |
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Shifty Pony posted:There are those achievements for running a mission without a down and without a supply drop. Got that on Haz5 with a group of randos a couple weeks ago. Still need to get the Haz4 one though. It was fun when we realized and everyone was like "hey holy poo poo no one drop a supply pod" and then at the end I was like "phew, can't believe no one went down during that extraction, that was close" and someone commented that they hadn't even realized they needed to stay alive for it, so we got pretty lucky!
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# ? Aug 10, 2022 14:45 |
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Serephina posted:Yea, so? Unsinkabear's point still stands, use your drills, a power attack, or an axe before temp shocking the praetorian. It's not going anywhere. If you're already there it's better to just finish them off with those options. Assuming you could reliably gauge how much damage you need to do to an enemy before temp shock will kill, switching to the cooker still takes time and doesn't proc vampire. thotsky fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Aug 10, 2022 |
# ? Aug 10, 2022 15:28 |
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thotsky posted:That was sort of my point though, if you're already there it's better to just finish them off with those options. chiming in with an agreedo here. if you're using the things that are good against frozen enemies instead of the wave cooker, it kind of proves that the wave cooker isn't the key ingredient and could be replaced by something else, here
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# ? Aug 10, 2022 15:32 |
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I think T1A and T2A are also viable if you like single shots for får away enemies, or want some more leeway on the overheat respectively, otherwise it's BBBBBBBaby for the EPC.
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# ? Aug 10, 2022 15:38 |
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Ok sure, you guys sound convinced that temp shocking frozen things is bad (which is crazy to me), but what do you actually run as your cryo's secondary then? That doesn't temp shock, and apparently won't compete with axes nor drills on frozen things, since that's bad too? (If all the replies are tcf I'm gonna laugh)
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# ? Aug 10, 2022 15:41 |
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I just said didn't I? So laugh away.
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# ? Aug 10, 2022 15:43 |
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I do Heavy Hitter EPC with my Cryo Driller. Sometimes I can't get close enough to Drill'em because geometry/danger/speed, and it's fast. Haven't tried Wave Cooker with that mod on Cryo though, it sounds like it might be better for my use, except if I'm sniping big Mactera (maybe?). How does the Wave Cooker option fare against Mactera? e: Can Wave Cooker deal with Mactera faster than 3-4 HH EPC shots?
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# ? Aug 10, 2022 15:53 |
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# ? Mar 28, 2024 17:39 |
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thotsky posted:If you're already there it's better to just finish them off with those options. I shouldn't have to say this, but drills are not always a safe option and saving your axes for more problematic targets that can't be trivially finished with an easy temp shock is a Good Thing™. Also you seem you be under the impression that activating Vampire is a driller's number one priority, and as an avid Vampire user and defender... it's really not. Also also, "switching weapons takes time" is some wild mental gymnastics to hear in a game where that happens almost instantly. Especially when all three options being discussed here are secondaries you swap to situationally! We all know TCF is better than plasma burn (or anything else) if used well. You don't need to engage in weird nonsensical justifications to believe that. It doesn't have to be the only good thing ever in order to be #1, that is some grade school energy. Plasma burn/temp shock in general is also an objectively strong option for people who don't feel like loving with TCF. Both EPC options (and I assume also wave cooker if Seraphina says so, I haven't hosed with it) require weapon swaps and a little know-how to do right, but are good when done right, so stop with the weirdly smug bad takes. This discussion has gone on way too long and it's making my head hurt Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Aug 10, 2022 |
# ? Aug 10, 2022 15:58 |