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There’s another variation where women will ask a tourist if they can practice their English with them, and take them to a café, order coffees etc. while talking to them. They then leave, the bill arrives and it’s €100s again.
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Aug 27, 2022 09:20
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Amazing how many different versions of this con exist. I mentioned a similiar grift earlier in the thread where they place bowls of nuts/olives or salad on the tables at restaurants. Touch it and you get an extra 50 euro (or thereabouts) surcharge for the item. The common theme here is that tourist districts are the worst and even the totally honest establishments serve mediocre food that has been marked up massively. There's nothing to lose if the customer is only going to be there for a week at max. Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Aug 27, 2022 |
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Aug 27, 2022 09:55
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FMguru posted:That's a classic Clip Joint: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clip_joint Yeah but it's not even nice places, it's a dump which is obviously only a scam. You're led in there you are supposed to think ah beer is cheap here.
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Aug 27, 2022 12:55
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Red Oktober posted:There’s another variation where women will ask a tourist if they can practice their English with them, and take them to a café, order coffees etc. while talking to them. They then leave, the bill arrives and it’s €100s again. The correct and prudent response when a complete stranger (of the opposite sex) in a place where you've never been comes up to you and goes "Hey don't I know you?" is "No, get lost"
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Aug 27, 2022 13:09
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EricBauman posted:The correct and prudent response when a complete stranger (of the opposite sex) in a place where you've never been comes up to you and goes "Hey don't I know you?" is "No, get lost" I always reply "Ned? Ned Ryerson?!"
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Aug 27, 2022 14:57
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Yeah it's a thing in China too. You'll get a couple of college aged kids come up to you and say they're studying English at university and they want to practice English, or they're studying to be a tour operator and want to practice on a foreigner. They'll take you to some tourist attractions and explain the place, make some small talk, and then say they know a good teahouse that serves really good Chinese tea. You go with them and it'll be the most expensive cup of tea you can imagine. The cruelty is that it isn't/wasn't too uncommon if you travel in parts of Asia to get a lot of attention as a foreigner and get random people wanting to talk or interact with you, so it can be easy to let your guard down.
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Aug 28, 2022 02:05
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I have some family who worked in China for years, and they all said it was an amazing place but they absolutely needed a local friend or fixer to find out where to go and not get ripped off. Or just some years’ experience and language skills  The place is just too drat big and different, despite foreigners being greeted with a ton of curiosity and enthusiasm.
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Aug 28, 2022 09:53
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I read a book a few years ago by a man who worked as an intermediate between North American/ European businesses and Chinese factories and his job was basically to know about how sketchy business people are and do his best to keep quality up for as long as possible. I wish I could remember the name of it, but it was a fantastic read for those interested in cons/ scams
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Aug 28, 2022 14:01
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Professor Shark posted:I read a book a few years ago by a man who worked as an intermediate between North American/ European businesses and Chinese factories and his job was basically to know about how sketchy business people are and do his best to keep quality up for as long as possible. I wish I could remember the name of it, but it was a fantastic read for those interested in cons/ scams Poorly Made in China, or are there more of them?
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Aug 28, 2022 14:42
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JohnCompany posted:Poorly Made in China, or are there more of them? Yep, that’s it. His description of Quality Fade was great, though his broad descriptions of the Chinese people’s way of thinking (like in the broken toilet story) does not sit right with me.
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Aug 28, 2022 22:48
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FMguru posted:That's a classic Clip Joint: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clip_joint The Idiots thread in GiP was rife with these kind of scams a bunch of pages back. "Juicy girls", in SE Asia, where the beer is cheap, but the girl you're talking to orders $20 orange juices, etc. You talk until the juice stops flowing, then they excuse themselves until you leave. That seems a far gentler scam, where the mark is left with a huge bill, and blue balls, but not much to say about it. What can a soldier really say, "But I thought..." You thought poo poo, dumbass, and got caught out. Maybe a ban on the bar for service members (lol) but the bar didn't actually do anything illegal, so the cops ain't gonna care.
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Aug 29, 2022 01:47
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Nolgthorn posted:I'm sure after 182 pages someone has brought up the restaurant scam. They employ hot girls who pretend to be on vacation, in order to get you into their shop. This is a European thing more than anywhere. They target if you look single and travelling on your own. The idea being that you will buy them some drinks but the place nearby that they lead you to charges much much more than usual. The type of place where even a cappuccino costs the equivalent of 50 or 100 euros. If you don't ask to see the menu, it's totally legal and they pay bouncers essentially to escort you to an atm. I'm sure variations exist in many places, but I just wanted to highlight that sure, maybe in some places it's legal and there is actually potential for getting roughed up (although I'm sure that isn't legal). But the vast majority of scams (and this one) involve playing off of the shame of being duped or the implied threat of violence, without actually any follow through or actual extortion. Implied threat of violence isn't even necessary really, just being secluded/sequestered away in a private booth/room/area or whatever is enough to make you feel isolated and pressured. I fell for a variation of the Chinese tea room scam (how I've always heard it referred to) when I was in my early 20s and traveling in China. It involved going to a tea/coffee shop of my choice and chatting after being approached for English practice by a girl of similar age. Then she suggested a place nearby that was good, I had been lulled into a false sense of security after having talked for a while and went along with it. Had a drink, she wanted to do karaoke, vibe got weird and I was like 'nah, I'm good' and made to leave. Bill was something absurd, and obviously I got angry/embarrassed in the moment for being such a moron but I just paid like a nominal amount for the drink (i.e. a normal amount) and walked straight out. I mention this vaguely embarrassing story about myself because there was some dude leaning beside the door and a dude behind the counter but nobody made the slightest effort to stop me despite not paying what I 'owed'. I think the potential repercussions for actually loving with a tourist are simply not worth it. Going to create a scene, cause police reports and so on. They rely on people just paying of their own free will. Not saying this is true everywhere, maybe in some places this would be dangerous to attempt. But equally at some point if you're willing to actually physically harm people to get their money, might as well just rob them and skip the middle part. Cons/scams are distinct in that you are tricked into handing over your money by your volition. I think most people on here are older and wiser than I was then, but just a reminder that if you are ever caught up in any kind of scam, you are almost guaranteed to be able to just hit da bricks at any moment without consequence.
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Aug 29, 2022 12:18
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Professor Shark posted:Yep, that’s it. His description of Quality Fade was great, though his broad descriptions of the Chinese people’s way of thinking (like in the broken toilet story) does not sit right with me. I've been reading (almost done), and the "yes I know all nations going through industrialization do this but China is different" felt a little weird to me too, but I don't know enough about China to say if it's wrong or not. I do appreciate that I'm basically reading The Outsourcer's Journey: Blooper Reel Edition though, so even if I have to take it with a pinch of salt it's still interesting.
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Aug 29, 2022 14:41
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This counts as more of a corporate level scam. Target at least often lists their online products at a much lower price versus the in store versions. Not only can you just have them send it to the store without paying shipping, but also they will straight up do a price match right at the register. I didn't know that until today, but I don't know how many other people even think to do it, or how many other stores do this as well. It feels like taking advantage of people who still buy in the physical stores, particularly the elderly who are already on a budget. I know the reasons are probably many for this practice, like driving up website traffic for advertisers and trying to maximize profits from hoping people don't know or are too lazy to take advantage of price matching at that moment. But I know now I will be checking those online prices at Target now next time I buy. Feels shady as hell.
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Aug 29, 2022 19:08
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It's mainly an effort at staving off their inevitably being driven out of business by Amazon
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Aug 29, 2022 20:28
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Le Faye Morgaine posted:This counts as more of a corporate level scam. The marginal cost of adding the online storefront is low compared to actual physical storefronts, and the physical stores are still competing with Amazon. I assume that if you buy it online, being able to pick it up at the store immediately might be a differentiator to Amazon etc.
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Aug 29, 2022 20:30
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Eric the Mauve posted:It's mainly an effort at staving off their inevitably being driven out of business by Amazon Speaking of Amazon, I'm in Europe and half the products are Chinese knockoffs. Especially "Amazon recommends" products. After they arrive if you leave a negative review you start getting bribed to change your review, if you refuse they keep trying every month or so forever. I've bought multiple products that took me through this rigmarole. Amazon doesn't seem to care because, it's not nearly as popular in Europe as in the US, I guess. But, you'd think they'd want to earn a good reputation. Basically the scam is selling fake products on Amazon. I don't know if that counts as a scam.
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Aug 30, 2022 01:04
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Americans are more used to everything they buy being cheap Chinese knockoffs/don't even notice half the time. But those who do care understand by now, I think, that if you care about the quality/genuineness of what you're buying then don't buy it through Amazon. An example. Kem playing cards. I'm not certain of the exact mechanism, but you can (as I have) buy them on Amazon through what purports to be the actual official Kem Amazon store, and most (not all, but most) of the time what you'll receive is a product that superficially appears to be the real thing, but turns out to be a cheap imitation that begins to warp pretty much immediately upon being exposed to air. But of course you can't return them once you've opened them, and you can't detect that you've been had until you open them. Or low-to-mid range designer fountain pens, like Lamy. Exactly the same situation. It wouldn't quite be accurate (probably) to say that Amazon's in on it, per se. Just that Amazon makes a shitload of money off this stuff and has no incentive to look too closely at it. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Aug 30, 2022 |
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Aug 30, 2022 01:15
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For some reason China is the only country that's allowed to do this, if I were to open my own Nike factory I'd be shut down pretty quickly. Amazon is facilitating it, there ought to be a law and so on. Or another one, I nearly bought a new phone on Amazon that a number of reviews called out as a refurbished phone.
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Aug 30, 2022 01:33
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I don't know how true it is, but I read somewhere that the reason Amazon ends up selling you so much knock off crap even when buying from an official store is their fulfillment process. Basically, to facilitate speedy delivery, when a seller wants to sell a thing through Amazon (and fulfilled by Amazon) they ship that thing to Amazon and they put it in a bin or on a shelf. They do the same for anyone else sending them the same product to sell, and when you buy it, they just grab one from that bin. So a scammer sends in their knock offs, they get mixed in the bin with the real thing, and there's no tracking or verification of legitimacy or sourcing. It was a big deal with magic the gathering cards with people getting boxes where the packs had been slit open and the valuable cards taken, then repacked and sent in. Anyone more in the know about it can correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a few years since I read this.
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Aug 30, 2022 05:40
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I feel like the $50 coffee tourist scam is probably not legal in a lot of places. Venice definitely had a big push to shut it down semi recently, presumably because the local government has the power to do that. If you do have a ~true free market~ where $50 is the market price as God intended then maybe not. Definitely trying to pull that in front of east Mediterranean style tourist police would lead to a very bad evening for the restaurant and they'd worry about what the actual law says later
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Aug 31, 2022 09:12
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Yeah in a lot of places that level of overcharging it's going to be at best grey area legal. It's an excellent point as well that typically the reason for doing scams like this rather than just rob people is to avoid police attention or committing crimes, so they're probably not going to beat the poo poo out of you for leaving, especially if you've left some reasonable payment. Of course all this is caveated with there are definitely places in the world where you'd walk out the door to get grabbed by the guys cousin who is the local policeman and given the option of paying twice as much again or going straight to jail.
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Aug 31, 2022 09:25
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I assume most of these tourist-targeting scams have an "arrangement" with local law enforcement (i.e. they get cut in for a percentage).
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Aug 31, 2022 09:58
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If you're travelling somewhere you don't really know the law, even in Europe, keep your embassy on speed dial. They're the ones you're going to end up talking to eventually anyway so the sooner the better.
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Aug 31, 2022 11:54
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Very first thing that happened when I stepped out of the airport in Naples was the cab I took trying to charge me 70 euros for a ~2 mile trip across town to my hotel. Unfortunately I was jet lagged as gently caress and did not share a language with the driver (he wrote the amount on a piece of paper and handed it to me) so I just ended up paying it instead of getting into a fight with somebody I couldn't communicate with. I'm sure as a lone international traveler fresh off the plane with bags under my eyes I looked like the easiest mark in the world, and lo and behold I was! Italy was just absolutely full to the brim with scammers on the prowl for tourists, it was ridiculous. Naples in particular - presumably because it's such a popular destination for international tourists - but Rome had it pretty bad, too. Meanwhile on the same trip I also spent time in Vienna and Copenhagen and encountered nothing of the sort, unless it was hidden from me exceedingly well and/or I was just a dumb dumb.
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Aug 31, 2022 20:06
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Le Faye Morgaine posted:Target at least often lists their online products at a much lower price versus the in store versions. Not only can you just have them send it to the store without paying shipping, but also they will straight up do a price match right at the register. I didn't know that until today, but I don't know how many other people even think to do it, or how many other stores do this as well. Eric the Mauve posted:It's mainly an effort at staving off their inevitably being driven out of business by Amazon I don't think it's that scammy for a few reasons though:
Edit: If it's scammy because you have to do some nominal legwork, you could make the same argument regarding other methods of price differentiation including coupons. Some people clip coupons from the weekly circular, others look up prices online. Some do neither because they couldn't be bothered. ExcessBLarg! fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Aug 31, 2022 |
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Aug 31, 2022 20:40
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Fruits of the sea posted:I mentioned a similiar grift earlier in the thread where they place bowls of nuts/olives or salad on the tables at restaurants. Touch it and you get an extra 50 euro (or thereabouts) surcharge for the item. My impression is that it's a normal thing, if perhaps a cultural misunderstanding. Maybe there's a scammey version of it but I don't know how common that is. When we went to Portugal some years ago we were repeatedly warned about the couvert which is a bowl of olives and nuts or whatever like you describe that they bring to your table automatically and for which they charge you. I assumed it was a cultural thing. Olives and nuts are tasty and yeah I'm hungry and wouldn't mind having a few while waiting. Also they usually cost like €2. I suppose they aren't supposed to charge you if you don't eat it, but I assume locals typically do eat it and that passing on it is actually rare and not some kind of "gotcha" move. I assume it's an American thing to either (i) not eat olives in a Mediterranean country, or (ii) expect heapings of free bread and get pissy when there's a nominal charge for food you eat. Similarly I could see the (ii) category of people ask to keep the olives and bread coming, not realizing they have to pay for food. ExcessBLarg! fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Aug 31, 2022 |
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Aug 31, 2022 21:07
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My experience of it was in Prague on a college school trip. The tour guide parked us at a restaurant and was pretty explicit about not touching the stuff because we were a flock of 19-year-old dumbasses. Sure enough, the menu had a couple appetizers priced equally to the entrees. But yeah, a little bread or olives on the table isn’t uncommon in Spain or Portugal from what I’ve seen. Central Prague was a pretty predatory place- it’s probably not an issue for areas that aren’t heavily touristed.
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Aug 31, 2022 22:01
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“Here is a thing you didn’t ask for but we’ll charge you a premium for if you touch it” is Hotel Mini Bar level of scam, which seems like a school yard lawyer type logic, which is why hotel mini bars are dying out
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Aug 31, 2022 22:53
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A "cover charge" is a standard service fee for sitting at a table requiring service. It's just part of the bill but it's way cheaper than a 15% tip. A small plate of olives is not the couvert, it's some boomer misunderstanding how the system works. You don't get out of paying the cover if you don't eat the olives.
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Aug 31, 2022 23:13
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Sydin posted:Very first thing that happened when I stepped out of the airport in Naples was the cab I took trying to charge me 70 euros for a ~2 mile trip across town to my hotel. Unfortunately I was jet lagged as gently caress and did not share a language with the driver (he wrote the amount on a piece of paper and handed it to me) so I just ended up paying it instead of getting into a fight with somebody I couldn't communicate with. I'm sure as a lone international traveler fresh off the plane with bags under my eyes I looked like the easiest mark in the world, and lo and behold I was! Rome at least now has fixed taxi charges from the airport to popular destinations, which have to be prominently displayed and adhered to. But my experience is along the same lines as yours - place I was ripped off the most was definitely Napoli. Taxi driver drove us in an entirely roundabout route and charged us something ridiculous. When we told the guys in the office we were visiting how much we'd been charged they laughed their asses off, then told us they'd take over and book all taxis for us in the future!
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Aug 31, 2022 23:27
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Sydin posted:Very first thing that happened when I stepped out of the airport in Naples was the cab I took trying to charge me 70 euros for a ~2 mile trip across town to my hotel. In Europe it's just generally a good idea to call a cab, never take one that's sitting on the side of the street. The problem is that a lot of cab drivers charge off the books and it can be just about anything. If you call a cab they can't do that. It's really annoying when a cab is just sitting there but maybe the service should tell that cab to pick you up. Anyway it's really frustrating.
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Sep 1, 2022 00:49
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Went to Amsterdam, while there got waffles with ice cream in a touristy section while drunk. Total was like €10, I handed over a €50 and the lady just took it and looked at me instead of giving me change. "Ok enjoy!!" I got the joy of drunkenly explaining that I was drunk but not stupid and I would like my change now, please, because I absolutely did not give you a €10 like you're suggesting I did. After a bit of back and forth "whoops guess you're right here's €40 enjoy your night!!"
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Sep 1, 2022 01:03
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Pseudohog posted:Rome at least now has fixed taxi charges from the airport to popular destinations, which have to be prominently displayed and adhered to. My favorite was the vendor who realized I was trying to find a place selling water (it was hot and humid as gently caress) and came up and handed me a bottle and was all "I need you to come to my stand to pay me it's right over there, go ahead and start drinking if you want I know it's hot out." Refused to drink before paying despite several proddings on the way over, and once we got there turned out he wanted 15 euros for it, lol. When I told him yeah no and walked away he screamed "loving IDIOT!" at me for like a solid minute. Italy was a blast, 10/10 would recommend. Nolgthorn posted:In Europe it's just generally a good idea to call a cab, never take one that's sitting on the side of the street. The problem is that a lot of cab drivers charge off the books and it can be just about anything. If you call a cab they can't do that. It's really annoying when a cab is just sitting there but maybe the service should tell that cab to pick you up. Anyway it's really frustrating. Yeah definitely a lesson learned if I ever go back.
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Sep 1, 2022 01:08
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Nolgthorn posted:In Europe it's just generally a good idea to call a cab, never take one that's sitting on the side of the street. The problem is that a lot of cab drivers charge off the books and it can be just about anything. If you call a cab they can't do that. It's really annoying when a cab is just sitting there but maybe the service should tell that cab to pick you up. Anyway it's really frustrating. What I was told is that the ones sitting still are sitting still for a reason and you shouldn't trust them. And always ask 'meter ok?' when getting in.
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Sep 1, 2022 01:36
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I’ve never been ripped off in Europe. Except for those atms in tourist areas that price cheaply for locals but have a terrible exchange rate. Those got me good. In China my wife didn’t know why I kept avoiding those friendly art students.
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Sep 1, 2022 01:45
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The Lone Badger posted:What I was told is that the ones sitting still are sitting still for a reason and you shouldn't trust them. You can also, assuming you share a language, as how much to X before you get in. You'll either get a price you can agree to ahead of time or they'll say it's meter only (usually local law depending on where you are) and watch them turn it on/see it's on. Doesn't make you immune to them trying poo poo but it helps alot.
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Sep 1, 2022 07:33
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ExcessBLarg! posted:The explanation I've heard is that "Target.com" is a separate entity than "Target" (brick and mortar) and so sets prices differently. Even if that's true, there's obviously some common ownership given the use of the "Target" trademark and that the retail stores facilitate the Pick Up At Store option, and so it's certainly intended for customers to think of them as the same brand. I can confirm pretty much everything in this post, and this may sound lovely with regards to the customer's end, but the reason it costs 6 dollars to order something from target.com but 20 bucks if you buy it in store is because you're subsidizing the physical costs Rent, electric, water, shipping, employee labor, maintenance, cleaning, and the fifty-five other things that go into having a place where you can walk in and get A Thing Right Now all cost money, and the shelf prices take those costs into account Will we price match to the online cost? Yes, absolutely, if you ask (or if you are a very good customer, a regular, or we want to make you feel special, we'll match it for you and make you feel like you saved a bunch of money to drive repeat business) Most people just buy at full price and don't think twice because the convenience of getting it in hand, today, when they need it now overrides the common-sense ideal of getting it cheaper and waiting Does it suck, yes But Target.com gets to ship your order at bargain mass-shipping rates from central warehouses The same item you pick up on a shelf took a plane, three trucks and was touched by like ten people before it gets to that spot, you're paying for them
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Sep 1, 2022 20:35
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Eric the Mauve posted:An example. Kem playing cards. I'm not certain of the exact mechanism, but you can (as I have) buy them on Amazon through what purports to be the actual official Kem Amazon store, and most (not all, but most) of the time what you'll receive is a product that superficially appears to be the real thing, but turns out to be a cheap imitation that begins to warp pretty much immediately upon being exposed to air. But of course you can't return them once you've opened them, and you can't detect that you've been had until you open them. I just went to Kern's website and ordered two decks of bridge sized cards and they are magnificent. I've never had anything but bicycles, and didn't know any better. Thanks for the recommendation!
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Sep 2, 2022 01:42
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Le Faye Morgaine posted:Sexuality academics are going to have a field day with future data from these latchkey youtube kids whose sexual preferences defy what we believe to be kinky. A generation of foot slime fetishists. Uh-Oh!
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Sep 2, 2022 04:34
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