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Jaxyon posted:I have always seen them as more efficient but honestly doing research it seems like I'd need a full family to see any real efficiency increases, but it's only me and my partner. I think you're looking at that in the wrong direction. They are most efficient when hot water is barely used/may go days without being used because they aren't keeping a tank of water hot all the time when nobody needs hot water. If you're talking about efficiency as far as "makes more hot water per therm of gas" that seems to be largely the domain of the overcomplicated and trouble prone condensing units. Ask people who install/work on these things what they have at home. It won't be a condensing unit.
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Aug 30, 2022 18:32
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Jaxyon posted:I have always seen them as more efficient but honestly doing research it seems like I'd need a full family to see any real efficiency increases, but it's only me and my partner. For 5-10 years of maintenance yes. It's like $200 in parts and labor to have my plumber flush it annually. You can diy it for around half that. Installation depends entirely on the location. If it's outdoors already it's easy. If it's inside they have to plumb substantial exhaust and make up air. So the answer is It Depends. Get 3 quotes. My unit cost like $6k to relocate outdoors and install. I think I got ripped off by around a grand. Lower usage equates to higher efficiency gains ironically.
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Aug 30, 2022 18:32
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We've been in our house 5 years, but spent the best part of 2 years working in the city to make ends meet, only coming home every other weekend or so. I'm told the septic tank was pumped not long before we took ownership. Should I just go ahead and get it pumped? I've done a bit of looking into checking the level myself but its not desirable for obvious reasons. The cost of having it pumped is just a bit higher than I'd expected.
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Aug 30, 2022 18:40
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codo27 posted:We've been in our house 5 years, but spent the best part of 2 years working in the city to make ends meet, only coming home every other weekend or so. I'm told the septic tank was pumped not long before we took ownership. Should I just go ahead and get it pumped? I've done a bit of looking into checking the level myself but its not desirable for obvious reasons. The cost of having it pumped is just a bit higher than I'd expected. The level of your septic settling box is and should be "full". This is not what pumping is about. It's about removing the solids from it so most of that "full" volume is water not solids. How many people are in the house and whether you do things that are not necessarily septic friendly matter here, but every 2-3 years is a pretty reasonable timeframe for getting things pumped. You can go longer, but if you start passing solids out of your settling tank they're going to go into your field which is a much bigger pain in the rear end and much larger bill to remedy.
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Aug 30, 2022 18:44
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Motronic posted:I think you're looking at that in the wrong direction. They are most efficient when hot water is barely used/may go days without being used because they aren't keeping a tank of water hot all the time when nobody needs hot water. This is a great point I don't think I understood. Yes, my water heater is spending much more time keeping water warm than it is heating up fresh water. H110Hawk posted:For 5-10 years of maintenance yes. It's like $200 in parts and labor to have my plumber flush it annually. You can diy it for around half that. Last line, again I didn't put together so thanks. The other thing I'm seeing is that it looks like tankless units last about 2x as long as tanked. So that factors in, as I'm planning on living here longer than the tank would last. As for inside/outside, mine is outside and conveniently placed. I've heard that some vendors make tankless units specifically designed to drop-in as replacements for tanked heaters, reducing labor. Jaxyon fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Aug 30, 2022 |
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Aug 30, 2022 19:00
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Jaxyon posted:The other thing I'm seeing is that it looks like tankless units last about 2x as long as tanked. So that factors in, as I'm planning on living here longer than the tank would last. Both last plenty long with regular maintenance, but no one, probably not even Motronic, flushes their tank water heater on the regular and keeps on top of the consumable anode rod. Because a drop in replacement is so fast and easy that even lowesdepot installers have trouble messing it up most people just do that. You're going to be 2 tanked replacements in on parts alone, 4 if you have a plumber do it, by the time you hopefully see 20 years out of a tankless. But if you skimp on it they can gum up easily in half that time. That being said, outdoor units, assuming they are in a compliant spot (exhaust not located within x feet of windows, second stories, etc) is just as easy as a tanked plus around an hour (or two) of work re-doing the plumbing to have appropriate bypass valves for flushing. The tankless units also cost more to buy. But don't take my word for it, get some quotes.  It doesn't cost you anything to have a plumber quote both. Your posting gut feels like you want one because they're cool. Honestly though? Take the extra money and treat yourself to a blow out nice dinner. Or hookers and blow. If it was an option for me that's what I would have done. I hate having to keep ontop of the tankless. And it costs us $15/month more to operate easily. (Family of 4, I love long scalding hot showers.)
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Aug 30, 2022 19:16
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H110Hawk posted:but no one, probably not even Motronic, flushes their tank water heater on the regular and keeps on top of the consumable anode rod. lol like I have a tanked heater. (I do flush my tankless, change the filter and clean the burner assembly annually)
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Aug 30, 2022 19:19
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H110Hawk posted:Both last plenty long with regular maintenance, but no one, probably not even Motronic, flushes their tank water heater on the regular and keeps on top of the consumable anode rod. Because a drop in replacement is so fast and easy that even lowesdepot installers have trouble messing it up most people just do that. I do think they're cool, but I can argue myself out of things I think are cool if I think it's not worth it. Just trying to get the most wholistic idea of what I'm getting into with either option. I appreciate your thoughts. And yeah I've had at least one plumber laugh at the idea of flushing out his own tanked water heater annually.
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Aug 30, 2022 19:25
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Motronic posted:lol like I have a tanked heater. See I told you he doesn't flush a tanked water heater. 
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Aug 30, 2022 19:34
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H110Hawk posted:Going to tankless is a luxury thing. Unless you have some specific need for the space, increased heating capacity (which cannot fit in a tank in the space), or both. Tankless is a increased cost to install and maintain at a theoretical, but not guaranteed, increase in efficiency. Thanks! Yeah, we're only looking at it as it's the only proposed solution for our existing space. Not sure the exact code requirements, but we had a couple plumbers tell us that need 12 inches above the water heater which we can't get without taking out the ceiling so they've all been proposing tankless in that space to provide enough clearance. Still talking to a couple others for their opinions, but all this came from is trying to stop the top of the water heater from ticking when the burner turns on and off all kind of spiraled out from there. PageMaster fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Aug 30, 2022 |
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Aug 30, 2022 23:18
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I am installing a new sink in a space I am renovating, and looking for some advice with the supply lines. I have open access to both hot and cold supply, they are copper. I need to T off them for the new run. The Ts are in the ceiling of the room I am working in, and will be closed up behind drywall at the end. I don't want to run copper all the way to the new location, so my main question is what material should I use, PEX or CPVC?. I had planned to use CPVC but I am not finding transitions like I expected. Seems like I can only find threaded brass to CPVC and I don't really like the idea of closing up threaded connections. So do I use the threaded connection as is? Use it and solder the threads? Is CPVC just the wrong choice regardless? I have never used PEX before but it doesn't seem too difficult. I could solder a brass fitting to the existing copper that has a PEX connector on the other end and go from there. All suggestions are welcome.
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Aug 31, 2022 02:46
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PageMaster posted:Thanks! Yeah, we're only looking at it as it's the only proposed solution for our existing space. Not sure the exact code requirements, but we had a couple plumbers tell us that need 12 inches above the water heater which we can't get without taking out the ceiling so they've all been proposing tankless in that space to provide enough clearance. Still talking to a couple others for their opinions, but all this came from is trying to stop the top of the water heater from ticking when the burner turns on and off all kind of spiraled out from there. How is your current one installed? Or is the simple answer "incorrectly"?
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Aug 31, 2022 03:36
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H110Hawk posted:How is your current one installed? Or is the simple answer "incorrectly"? Hopefully not incorrectly considering we paid for it and had it permitted and inspected. Everything SEEMS to work, and the only problem we have is the water heater makes an incredibly loud ticking noise (sort of like metal staining) immediately once the burner kicks on that we can hear through the entire house. Two plumbers who looked at it say theres not enough clearance and/or run off the exhaust above the tank and the heat coming out the top of the tank is melting some things (though I was also told that was more tool related during install than melting) and keeping the top of the tank hotter than the bottom which is causing the metal to make the noise. They also mentioned 12 inches needed above the tank for the flue but I've never heard that before. Not everything in their story makes perfect sense to me, and I still feel like it's just the exhaust piping straining when heating up, but I haven't been able to get a clear answer from anyone besides these latest two, so we still need more opinions from some other contractors. I'm thinking they there may not technically be anything wrong, and it's just a noise we'll have to live with, but I'm not the expert and can't say for sure yet. Doing my own research and from my own understanding, I don't see why having a longer vertical flue run would fix the problem, but I'm also on chemo and radiation so I'm not in a position to be dictating beyond "fix this please" to a contractor.  
PageMaster fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Aug 31, 2022 |
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Aug 31, 2022 05:12
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PageMaster posted:Hopefully not incorrectly considering we paid for it and had it permitted and inspected. Everything SEEMS to work, and the only problem we have is the water heater makes an incredibly loud ticking noise (sort of like metal staining) immediately once the burner kicks on that we can hear through the entire house. Two plumbers who looked at it say theres not enough clearance and/or run off the exhaust above the tank and the heat coming out the top of the tank is melting some things (though I was also told that was more tool related during install than melting) and keeping the top of the tank hotter than the bottom which is causing the metal to make the noise. They also mentioned 12 inches needed above the tank for the flue but I've never heard that before. Not everything in their story makes perfect sense to me, and I still feel like it's just the exhaust piping straining when heating up, but I haven't been able to get a clear answer from anyone besides these latest two, so we still need more opinions from some other contractors. I'm thinking they there may not technically be anything wrong, and it's just a noise we'll have to live with, but I'm not the expert and can't say for sure yet. Doing my own research and from my own understanding, I don't see why having a longer vertical flue run would fix the problem, but I'm also on chemo and radiation so I'm not in a position to be dictating beyond "fix this please" to a contractor. Yeah, the official answer is "as stated on the cut sheet" with some minimums likely carved out in your code. That install with the open cavity looks a little sketch. Why haven't they finished off the drywall around the flue other than "they aren't drywallers and now it's too hard with a water heater there." Google says a lot of defaults are 12" from combustible construction, which that isn't as-is but your cut sheet might say differently. I assume that flue continues on to the outside world and doesn't just end right there? Either way - you are probably one of the lucky people where a tankless solves a real technical problem where a tanked one cannot.
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Aug 31, 2022 05:45
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H110Hawk posted:Yeah, the official answer is "as stated on the cut sheet" with some minimums likely carved out in your code. That install with the open cavity looks a little sketch. Why haven't they finished off the drywall around the flue other than "they aren't drywallers and now it's too hard with a water heater there." Sorry, that has actually been drywalled, I just used an old picture since it showed more of the entire flue including what's now hidden above the ceiling. Flue does continue and vents out the roof, so it's safe (as far as I can tell), we just can't figure out this noise and I can't see how clearance is the problem. I suppose if it is actually the water heater creaking, then reolacing it with tankless will obviously fix the noise, sure, but if it's the ventilation piping then it doesn't help us at all. I might need some guarantee in the contract that the specific problem goes away.
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Aug 31, 2022 05:55
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PageMaster posted:Hopefully not incorrectly considering we paid for it and had it permitted and inspected. Everything SEEMS to work, and the only problem we have is the water heater makes an incredibly loud ticking noise (sort of like metal staining) immediately once the burner kicks on that we can hear through the entire house. ... 1) Whatever that white wire is in the first picture, I hope that it isn't still laying up against the flue pipe there. The ticking you hear is thermal expansion of the flue piping, which may be rubbing against itself at the connections, or against the drywall if it's installed tightly around what appears to be (I hope) a double-or triple-wall flue pipe where it transitions to the oval shape. Or rubbing against something else. It's annoying but you'll get used to it. You can also try grabbing the flue pipe (between cycles, obviously - wear a glove or an oven mitt) and gently push / pull on it & see if you can reproduce the noise & locate it. It may be as simple as a loose screw. If the source doesn't present itself & you don't/can't get used to it, and you want to replace a perfectly functioning water heater, and you are being told that the vertical clearance is now an issue, they do make shorter, wider diameter 40- and 50-gal water heaters. As Motronic noted, the true utility of tankless is intermittent use, like vacation homes or garage/work areas that don't command daily needs for hot water. I find them to be more expensive, a bit more needy in the maintenance dept, and not as long-lasting as a tanked heater. PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Aug 31, 2022 |
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Aug 31, 2022 14:24
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Trenchless pipe repair is pretty drat cool... We went from this  to this  to this  All without jackhammering up the slab under my living room!
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Sep 1, 2022 00:38
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That's cool, just sleeving it? How much ID do you lose?
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Sep 1, 2022 05:22
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e- thanks for the help.
Jippa fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Sep 19, 2022 |
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Sep 1, 2022 10:05
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The [pipe in the ground might be draininge to somewhere. In fact it probably is. But with that whole flower pot setup you've got going on there with pies from the sink and shower going to it I'm going to guess this is a place with (a broken) gray water setup and the clogged pipe going down used to go to a cistern.
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Sep 1, 2022 15:37
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Rakeris posted:That's cool, just sleeving it? How much ID do you lose? Yea, we've got a bunch of old asbestos pipes under the house that aren't really feasible to replace. I don't know exactly how thick it is, but I doubt we lost more then 3/8 of an inch. It's made up for by not having a bunch of lovely joints.
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Sep 1, 2022 23:00
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Hey friends, Maybe this was covered up thread, but is there a ratio of turns -> PSI for a generic US house water pressure regulator valve? I know that my house internal pressure isn't what it should be but I also don't want to just go ham on it and blow a valve or something. The backstory is that we bought the place about eight years ago, but before we bought it the place was 'winterized' (i.e. previous owner walked out) and the system was drained. I do have a pressure gauge that I can hook up to a garden spigot, but I have trust issues. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
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Sep 2, 2022 11:49
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Arishtat posted:Hey friends, Do little bits and remeasure after running some water to get the pressure to adjust. I haven't done one but as I recall a quarter turn is a significant amount of adjustment. Back off the lock but, turn it an 1/8th, run a hose for a bit, re-attach your pressure thing. When done resecure the lock nut. Lefty loosey (higher pressure) righty tighty (lower pressure) and remember these are wear items. The more work it's been doing the more likely it is simply in need of replacing. Age measured in decade+.
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Sep 2, 2022 16:40
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This thread has been very helpful in learning basic plumbing and I have a few projects to tackle. I need to replace the main shutoff valve, add some water hammer arrestors, and replace three frost proof spigots. I was planning to use sharkbite but I have read a few places that copper sharkbite fittings can reduce water pressure. All of my pipes are 45 year old copper and they are in the crawlspace of my house so I have easy access to all the pipping. I just suck at soldering and no one I know has a copper pipe crimping tool. Am I over thinking using sharkbite for these simple projects?
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Sep 2, 2022 17:30
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Unknownmass posted:This thread has been very helpful in learning basic plumbing and I have a few projects to tackle. I need to replace the main shutoff valve, add some water hammer arrestors, and replace three frost proof spigots. I was planning to use sharkbite but I have read a few places that copper sharkbite fittings can reduce water pressure. All of my pipes are 45 year old copper and they are in the crawlspace of my house so I have easy access to all the pipping. I just suck at soldering and no one I know has a copper pipe crimping tool. Am I over thinking using sharkbite for these simple projects? I personally wouldn't rely on sharkbite for a main shutoff. That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
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Sep 2, 2022 23:32
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devicenull posted:I personally wouldn't rely on sharkbite for a main shutoff. That sounds like a recipe for disaster. I'm the "sharkbites are for temporary use only" person here. But I think everyone knows that already. Putting one on a main feed/shutoff is just ludicrous to me.
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Sep 2, 2022 23:36
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Sharkbite is generally fine, in areas where you have access to visually inspect them from time to time. Leaving it inside the wall scares the hell out of me personally.
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Sep 3, 2022 18:08
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Edit: Replaced two O rings and no longer have a leaky faucet.
The Dave fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Sep 4, 2022 |
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Sep 3, 2022 18:30
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H110Hawk posted:Do little bits and remeasure after running some water to get the pressure to adjust. I haven't done one but as I recall a quarter turn is a significant amount of adjustment. Back off the lock but, turn it an 1/8th, run a hose for a bit, re-attach your pressure thing. When done resecure the lock nut. Thanks. I'll rustle up the spouse, get her on FaceTime and we will play guess-n-test.
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Sep 5, 2022 08:21
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I need some help figuring out how to shop for a shower handle trim kit. I messed up and overestimated how interchangeable these things are. What I bought is a modern Moen trim kit that is too big for my cartridge. What I have is a Moen 1225 cartridge. I really don't remember what trim was there before. I've had no luck searching for trim by cartridge. What should I be looking for to ensure it is compatible?
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Sep 6, 2022 01:32
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My whole house filter housing (GE GXWH30) is loving stuck. Watched this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zo6AmMjqfM here, and I am having to lean into the sump wrench pretty loving hard and the pipes are moving with it -- not awesome. Compared to that guy, I'm looking for breaker bars / adding leverage, so I'm pretty sure mine is cross-threaded / locked up / bad O-ring / overtightened / etc etc. Looks like PO / previous owner never bothered to install the mounting bracket, so the filter is free hanging in pipes, and I'm worried about over torquing and breaking it off. It does have a shutoff valve on the inlet and outlet (WV-200, WV-201), which is good, but odd thing is, even pushing the red pressure release button, it seems like it's still building up while those are both shut -- I feel like I should be able to hold it down for like 30 seconds and it should no longer spit out water. Any ideas on getting this unstuck? Alternately, if I wanted to get a new one installed / this one removed, how much labor hours would this generally be if I were to find someone? E:  
movax fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Sep 18, 2022 |
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Sep 18, 2022 20:57
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movax posted:My whole house filter housing (GE GXWH30) is loving stuck. Watched this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zo6AmMjqfM here, and I am having to lean into the sump wrench pretty loving hard and the pipes are moving with it -- not awesome. Compared to that guy, I'm looking for breaker bars / adding leverage, so I'm pretty sure mine is cross-threaded / locked up / bad O-ring / overtightened / etc etc. Looks like PO / previous owner never bothered to install the mounting bracket, so the filter is free hanging in pipes, and I'm worried about over torquing and breaking it off. Yeah, just stop. You're unlikely to save this thing and anything you do is likely to leave you in a position where you need to get to the hardware store RIGHT NOW or you won't have water anymore. movax posted:It does have a shutoff valve on the inlet and outlet, which is good, but odd thing is, even pushing the red pressure release button, it seems like it's still building up while those are both shut -- I feel like I should be able to hold it down for like 30 seconds and it should no longer spit out water. Odd. If you turn one of them off do you still get water at a faucet past it? If not, try just the other one off. One of them might be bad so you are either getting pressure form the supply side or leakback from the house side. movax posted:Any ideas on getting this unstuck? Alternately, if I wanted to get a new one installed / this one removed, how much labor hours would this generally be if I were to find someone? It's not installed properly so I'd be more concerned with not damaging your pipes. Not knowing how it's installed (other than wrong) I'm gonna say this is a minimal time job for any competent plumber to remove/bypass. What installing a new one properly looks like really depends on what you've got around it - it's NEEDS to be attached to something so that you aren't moving pipes when you open/close it.
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Sep 18, 2022 21:07
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Turn off 100, 101, 200. Go turn on the bath tub and kitchen sink. (Let air in, you want high flow to drain out your system.) After the initial flush of water, do you get more water coming out? Or does it never stop? If so, one of those 3 gate (twisty) valves is broken and you should stop unless you know how to sweat copper. Have a plumber come and replace them all with quarter turns.
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Sep 18, 2022 21:20
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It looks like you could replace the entire unit yourself if you have a couple of wrenches IF the main shutoff actually does completely shut the water off. There's a threaded union there between the filter housing & the gate valve. You get that off, them you can spin off the threaded section between the union & the housing, and the filter housing has to be threaded on the far side as well. Your biggest issue is removing the filter & basket so that you can spin the filter housing off, as there isn't enough room at the wall to clear it. Once you buy a new unit and confirm that it's the same size/distance between the threaded sections as the old one, cut the filter basket off with a saw & change out the housing. You need maybe two wrenches, or a wrench & a pair of vise-grips. And a roll of teflon tape.
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Sep 19, 2022 02:05
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Thanks for the replies guys -- I stopped messing with it shortly before posting that because I could easily picture my Sunday going south by breaking a pipe somewhere and then finding out that the main shut-off doesn't actually work. I'll do that diagnostic H110Hawk mentioned to figure out which one of the valves isn't behaving correctly, because I can't think of another reason that the pressure doesn't fully dissipate from the filter housing unless one of the valves isn't doing what it's supposed too (WV-201 felt weird). You're talking about replacing with something like [url=https://www.mcmaster.com/quarter-turn-valves/threaded-on-off-valves-for-drinking-water-11/]these[/ur], right? From the way the pipes are currently run, I wonder if it isn't also a bad time to add a 'smart' flow meter -- I could McMaster-Carr something + a pressure transducer/temp transducer and strap it to a PLC, but I'm sure someone has already done with an ESP32-based thing that plugs into Home Assistant. WV-101 is essentially a bypass; with that closed and WV-200/201 open, all water consumption should go through that filter housing. Any thread recommendations on one that doesn't suck? Depending on the labor rate, cutting pipe + installing between WV-100 and WV-101 would also work 'better' in the sense it would measure consumption if bypassing the filter, but that shouldn't really happen often. It's a concrete wall behind the housing, so if I had to bet $20, I bet the previous installer saw basically no clearance between the wall / water heater to get a nice SDS drill to fit and said 'gently caress it'.
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Sep 19, 2022 02:42
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Alright I've done some basic toilet maintenance before but I've never seen a setup like this: I want to replace the plug over the drain opening because I don't think it's sitting properly any more, like the rubber has warped or perished a bit. I have no idea what this thing is called though. Any help? In case it's not clear, the overflow tube there has a rubber seal on the bottom, it doubles as the drain cover. When you push the flush button, it tilts to the side, allowing water down the drain.
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Sep 19, 2022 23:25
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movax posted:https://www.mcmaster.com/quarter-turn-valves/threaded-on-off-valves-for-drinking-water- Close - but not quite. Your existing valves are soldered on, so if you want to replace them you're going to need the soldered equivalent - which is https://www.lowes.com/pd/AMERICAN-VALVE-Brass-1-2-in-Copper-Sweat-Ball-Valve/1000242359
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Sep 19, 2022 23:27
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Buck Turgidson posted:Alright I've done some basic toilet maintenance before but I've never seen a setup like this: I’d just replace it all. The semi-universal kits are cheap and easy.
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Sep 20, 2022 00:51
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Alright my dishwasher is driving me nuts.. randomly the bottom of it fills with water, and then leaks out whenever it gets opened next. It doesn't appear to correspond to how long it's been since it was run, nor does it appear to correspond to when I use the sink. I've replaced both the water fill valve and drain pump already, as well as the drain hose that has some sort of check valve attached. I have a high loop instead of an air gap. We *just* had the main drain hydrojetted and lined, the dishwasher problem predates that (we thought the main drain was what caused this, turns out it was an unrelated issue). I can't quite figure out wtf to do next. I'd like to put it some sort of standalone check valve, but that doesn't appear to be a thing that exists. It's a Kitchenaid KDTE104ESS1
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Sep 20, 2022 01:24
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The water fills above the basin line? You should always be able to open your dishwasher and not have water leak out. That sounds like whatever is metering the water in is not working right. I don't know how that's handled (time? flow? limit switch? MAGIC???) If it's just a solenoid + time then is the pressure in your house astronomically high? Can you check? Does it all drain out when the system "stops"? Can you try doing a start -> drain/reset immediately before it starts pumping in water and see if that helps? Or is it leaking with the door closed and something is just not sealed up now?
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Sep 20, 2022 02:19
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