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Night10194 posted:Did Roddenberry or anyone ever actually explain why the hell they thought THAT was the right choice for a pilot? My understanding is that the original concept was just the Farpoint mystery, and then someone (Roddenberry? I can't remember) decided it should be a double-length episode and then Gene wrote in the Q plot. I think even if it hadn't been Farpoint and/or Q, it would have still been a clunky "introduce everyone as the writers, cast, and crew figure out how the hell a TNG episode actually works" episode. The other thing to keep in mind is that TNG really couldn't afford to be picky about scripts in the first season; remember, The Naked Now came about because they were already way behind on getting shootable scripts ready and Gene Roddenberry decided to just rip off The Naked Time in order to slap something together in time. Also, strictly speaking, pilot is not synonymous with "first episode"; a pilot episode is a prototype used to sell the show to prospective network buyers, and sometimes (but not always) is re-used as a regular series episode. But even then, it's not necessarily the first episode; Where No Man Has Gone Before was a pilot and was aired several weeks into the first season, even though the costuming and sets are noticeably different. The pilot for Law & Order also was aired several weeks into the first season. And some shows change so much between the pilot and the series production (whether because significant changes were made, or because the production values differed too greatly) that the pilot itself is just never aired at all. EDIT: Forgot to add, in this case, Paramount decided to greenlight production without first producing a pilot episode; they were selling directly to individual TV stations anyway, so they didn't have to worry about running it by a network first. Farmer Crack-Ass fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Oct 8, 2022 |
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Oct 8, 2022 00:50
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A.o.D. posted:I will pay almost any price for more Jeffery Combs, and a strange Peanut Hamper episode doesn't even amount to pocket change. I am totally including it with the last few minutes I enjoyed.
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Oct 8, 2022 01:12
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Jet Jaguar posted:I feel like we need an ultimate showdown between Peanut Hamper and The Dog in a future episode. What is most amazing is that Peanut Hamper genuinely does so much good for these people, but is so utterly committed to being a complete jerkbag, they throw it all away. Even though it would have been easier to keep being nice. Arglebargle III posted:So is a bird man loving a robot named Peanut the weirdest thing ever televised by Star Trek? I mean, you did watch TAS, right?
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Oct 8, 2022 01:18
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Night10194 posted:At the same time if someone else is attacking and trying to conquer them, how does that work with the Prime Directive? Not that the Prime Directive was ever particularly well thought out. Figure it's kind of case-by-case. In this case Peanut Hamper as a StarFleet officer was making a direct request for aid. I'm reminded of the Next Gen Episode, "Pen Pals." Once the little girl directly asked for Data's (and by extension the Federation's) help, Picard gave it.
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Oct 8, 2022 01:50
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He very much tried not to, mind. Initially.
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Oct 8, 2022 01:51
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Astroman posted:I mean, you did watch TAS, right? The Lower Decks creators sure did.
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Oct 8, 2022 02:18
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Night10194 posted:He very much tried not to, mind. Initially. Well, sure. I figure the Prime Directive came out of most of human history in terms of what happened when a less "advanced" people ran into one that was more "advanced" like the Azteks meeting the Spanish. Sure the Spanish were greedy fucks but some of the worst things they did came out of a desire to "help" and "uplift" the Azteks. The Prime Directive was the Federation saying, "No, we are not going to be gods, conquerors or Erich loving von Daniken's Ancient Aliens. Pre-warp cultures get to make their own decisions, live their own lives and, yes, die their own deaths without us interfering because we think we know better." Pcard was abiding by that directive. However, once he was confronted by a direct plea for help from a member of that culture to a member of his crew, he relented.
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Oct 8, 2022 02:31
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Astroman posted:What is most amazing is that Peanut Hamper genuinely does so much good for these people, but is so utterly committed to being a complete jerkbag, they throw it all away. Even though it would have been easier to keep being nice. Her repeated motivation is to get back into the Federation without facing any consequences for abandoning her ship. (It has to be the Federation because outside the Federation her personhood might not be respected and she could be treated as property.) She's nice because mathematically that gets her the best situation with the least risk. She's manipulative, but that could simply be that her circuit pathways are incapable of empathy* so she simulates it to get people to like her. She pursues a relationship because marrying the future chief and becoming queen of the bird people is the best option she has in that situation. When she sees an opportunity to improve her situation she takes it. *Incapable of empathy at this time. The exocomps developed sentience and will to live on their own by expanding their circuit pathways. It is possible her circuits could still expand to develop empathy and emotional maturity, but that hasn't happened yet. At least one exocomp was capable of deliberate self-sacrifice, so the potential is there.
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Oct 8, 2022 02:45
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Everyone posted:Well, sure. I figure the Prime Directive came out of most of human history in terms of what happened when a less "advanced" people ran into one that was more "advanced" like the Azteks meeting the Spanish. Sure the Spanish were greedy fucks but some of the worst things they did came out of a desire to "help" and "uplift" the Azteks. No, it came from that one time Archer and co. came across a planet with two species on it, one of which was dying from some space disease. Phlox coulda cured it but didn't because reasons, and Archer did a speech about how maybe in the future there'd be a rule about how they shoulda done this.
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Oct 8, 2022 02:45
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Technowolf posted:No, it came from that one time Archer and co. came across a planet with two species on it, one of which was dying from some space disease. Phlox coulda cured it but didn't because reasons, and Archer did a speech about how maybe in the future there'd be a rule about how they shoulda done this. That was just Phlox being excited to finally get a chance to commit genocide and Archer being dumb enough to listen to him.
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Oct 8, 2022 03:06
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Facebook Aunt posted:Her repeated motivation is to get back into the Federation without facing any consequences for abandoning her ship. (It has to be the Federation because outside the Federation her personhood might not be respected and she could be treated as property.) I don't know. Would you be considering this if Peanut Hamper were a human female who did pretty much all of this same stuff? Peanut Hamper is a fully developed, fully realized person. She (They?) is just a selfish, vapid kind of dumb person. Peanut Hamper reminds me a little of Loki from the MCU. Loki presents himself as a brilliant, clever trickster but the main reason he's able to fool people is that the people he fools are his friends and family who care about him.
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Oct 8, 2022 03:38
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Everyone posted:Pcard was abiding by that directive. However, once he was confronted by a direct plea for help from a member of that culture to a member of his crew, he relented. My read on it was more "Picard willfully ignores Data's violations of the Prime Directive and creatively interprets Sarjenka's communications as a distress signal, which all Starfleet vessels are legally required to respond to in order to keep his friend out of legal trouble." (Which is a little better than "Worf's foster brother shames Picard into snatching a civilization from extinction," but not by much!)
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Oct 8, 2022 06:03
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It was also, like all Prime Directive episodes, a situation where it should not have applied and to rationalise their non-interference as a civilisation perishes from a cataclysmic natural disaster they were coming up with all types of goofy nonsense like 'maybe it's the divine plan of the universe'
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Oct 8, 2022 08:25
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No Dignity posted:It was also, like all Prime Directive episodes, a situation where it should not have applied and to rationalise their non-interference as a civilisation perishes from a cataclysmic natural disaster they were coming up with all types of goofy nonsense like 'maybe it's the divine plan of the universe' Not all Prime Directive episodes! There was that time B'Elanna figured out how to make robot babies and got kidnapped so one robo-faction could make more soldiers and win the war.
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Oct 8, 2022 12:17
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Those robots looked straight out of the 1950s, they ruled
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Oct 8, 2022 13:52
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Eimi posted:That was just Phlox being excited to finally get a chance to commit genocide and Archer being dumb enough to listen to him. This was before anyone realized Phlox was initiating bidding wars over medical supplies at every planet they came across. Ohh Captain we can't give these people the medicine,
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Oct 8, 2022 15:41
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Everyone posted:I don't know. Would you be considering this if Peanut Hamper were a human female who did pretty much all of this same stuff? Peanut Hamper is a fully developed, fully realized person. She (They?) is just a selfish, vapid kind of dumb person. If she was human we'd know what is normal for her species. She's an alien. All we know about her species is that they are sapient machines, the oldest is about 15 years old, and there is someone she calls "dad" so she's probably not an original first generation exocomp. She's a jerk, but she's also sort of a child? Time perception gets wonky for artificial life forms. Though she did get put in the bad machine jail at the end. That is a pretty strong hint that starfleet re-evaluated her and judged her an irredeemable jerk. Computer jail seems more serious than a normal federation penal colony.
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Oct 8, 2022 16:36
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When you can alter your perception of time arbitrarily then the humane limitations on imprisonment conditions are probably less relevant
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Oct 8, 2022 16:59
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Brawnfire posted:This was before anyone realized Phlox was initiating bidding wars over medical supplies at every planet they came across. I didn't know phlox was American.
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Oct 8, 2022 18:23
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Didn't care for this one. It felt a bit too much like a slightly reworked Rick and Morty Season 3 rejected script.
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Oct 8, 2022 18:29
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Alchenar posted:Didn't care for this one. It felt a bit too much like a slightly reworked Rick and Morty Season 3 rejected script. That’s a good way to put it - it seemed like a plot where the entire episode would play out on bird planet and then Rick and Morty would just come across the ruins of what happened in the last 5 seconds as a gag. It was apparent they weren’t goin to go that far on LD so it just felt like a joke that went on too long before the Cerritos showed up.
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Oct 8, 2022 18:50
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Facebook Aunt posted:If she was human we'd know what is normal for her species. She's an alien. All we know about her species is that they are sapient machines, the oldest is about 15 years old, and there is someone she calls "dad" so she's probably not an original first generation exocomp. She's a jerk, but she's also sort of a child? Time perception gets wonky for artificial life forms. Peanut Hamper probably could have dodged that by not actively attempting to contact the Borg to come and assimilate everybody on the planet. I did like that PH helped the bird-folks more out of exasperation than anything else. I hope we get the meta-joke next season of someone telling Peanut Hamper, "You're the worst."
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Oct 8, 2022 19:28
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Everyone posted:Peanut Hamper probably could have dodged that by not actively attempting to contact the Borg to come and assimilate everybody on the planet. I agree. I think her fear of a penal colony for abandoning her post was probably unfounded and they would have been satisfied with a dishonorable discharge from starfleet. But then escalating to endangering a planet and whatnot, that gets you put in the box.
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Oct 8, 2022 20:52
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJwVNppatK0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo2V1cSVj-w I appreciate the downshift in stakes for Discovery S5, but Picard is going to be a glorious mess and I am here for it Also turns out the trick to making the Titan-A look great is only showing the top part of the ship
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Oct 8, 2022 21:34
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NYCC news https://twitter.com/StarTrek/status/1578842164171517953?s=20&t=_bcXgANwM1XxepLXxMpYJg https://twitter.com/TrekCore/status/1578840998310187008?s=20&t=APFR8MdmoK-6PIpzGa99XQ Love seeing Canadian tv regulars on Discovery. https://twitter.com/StarTrek/status/1578846626344763392?s=20&t=n49M8WmY1sXBbiVH2zLV-A xerxus fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Oct 8, 2022 |
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Oct 8, 2022 21:40
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yeah that trailer for picard is about as bad as a tng reunion trailer possibly could be. i'll be there for the first ep at least just to see what everyone is doing. dorn at least seems to be actually playing worf unlike everybody else, even if he is a pacifist now. crusher seems to be in stasis and i wonder if that's because they're gonna throw her in there so she isn't in most the season or if that's how picard finds her.
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Oct 8, 2022 21:45
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Interesting they spoiled their Enterprise F reveal like that.
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Oct 8, 2022 21:45
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With his turn to pacifism, Worf can get Worfed easier than ever this season!
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Oct 8, 2022 21:46
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Cross-Section posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo2V1cSVj-w Paramount stepping up its franchising crossovers by making the villian of Picard Season 3 Frau Farbissina from Austin Powers
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Oct 8, 2022 21:47
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Hahahahahahahahaha loving Moriarty is coming back to bite them in the rear end?
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Oct 8, 2022 21:49
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Cross-Section posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJwVNppatK0 
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Oct 8, 2022 21:50
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Well that Disco trailer said nothing and Picard... that appears to be like Star Trek Online level insane plotting. What the gently caress?
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Oct 8, 2022 21:50
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FlamingLiberal posted:I just love that the Disco S5 trailer ends with Michael saying 'never a dull moment' I suppose technically if you do an entire dull season it isn't really a moment.
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Oct 8, 2022 21:52
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Cross-Section posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJwVNppatK0 Who was the 'greetings... old friends' guy meant to be.... Moriarty?
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Oct 8, 2022 21:52
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No Dignity posted:Who was the 'greetings... old friends' guy meant to be.... Moriarty? yeah
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Oct 8, 2022 21:54
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Grand Fromage posted:Well that Disco trailer said nothing and Picard... that appears to be like Star Trek Online level insane plotting. What the gently caress? The Picard trailer is especially dumb because it has two moments that would have been legitimately good "surprise" moments and it spoiled em both
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Oct 8, 2022 21:54
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No Dignity posted:Who was the 'greetings... old friends' guy meant to be.... Moriarty? also I guess I should have seen it coming that they would drag Lore back one last time
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Oct 8, 2022 21:54
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr7QogRioqo We can't gloss over Jellico returning as a dirtbag admiral, right
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Oct 8, 2022 21:58
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Picard season 3 looking somehow worse than I was expecting? Which is impressive.
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Oct 8, 2022 22:16
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If only that box from the Disco trailer was a Lament Configuration...
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Oct 8, 2022 22:17
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