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I'm glad that people are now realizing that Kamiya was always a piece of poo poo who calls people who posts in different languages insects
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Oct 16, 2022 15:23
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Stux posted:no. however it seems strange that hale would agree to replace her given her vocal stance on unionisation and fair pay and her own unionised status. presumably she will be getting paid a much better rate. these things together would indicate thaht all of the information required to understand what exactly has happened is unavailable, and so taking an extremely strong stance on it would be unwise. Unwise lmao? There's no stakes in speculating and posting about the reason why a worker was wronged but good worm instincts to instantly take the side of the childrens toy company
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Oct 16, 2022 15:24
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youve understood the situation perfectly. fantastic thread as always.
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Oct 16, 2022 15:25
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I don't know enough about Japanese organizational culture, but if that was a factor then it's still a gently caress up. International businesses have HR and regional reps to avoid exactly this kind of situation.
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Oct 16, 2022 15:27
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Stux posted:youve understood the situation perfectly. fantastic thread as always. You post itt like a dnd nerd except instead of poo poo that matters its about video games, lmao (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 16, 2022 15:28
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Terminal autist posted:You post itt like a dnd nerd except instead of poo poo that matters its about video games, lmao This is the thread for discussing serious industry-related news, op
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Oct 16, 2022 15:31
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the working conditions and behaviors within the gaming industry do matter, and the subject deserves thoughtful and reasoned discussion
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Oct 16, 2022 15:31
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If at any point you find yourself siding with a corporation over its employees without extremely clear cut evidence that the employee is actually in the wrong, you've hosed up bad.
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Oct 16, 2022 15:41
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Stux posted:the working conditions and behaviors within the gaming industry do matter, and the subject deserves thoughtful and reasoned discussion "Its about ethics in game journalism" stux 2015 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 16, 2022 15:42
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Stux posted:if lowballing rather than outright firing is indeed a cultural difference that would make a difference. i think a more recognisable va would make sense if it was someone with a recognisable voice doing a different voice, rather than a va who isnt really a draw or sales pushing name doing the exact same voice. and the implication of hale, again an outspoken unionisation proponent, engaging in what could be considered scab work given the previous va is now calling for a boycott, would demand a level of sobriety and patience regarding the situation. If it's a cultural product of japan's work culture, then it's toxic as gently caress and there's zero reason to respect it. It doesn't make a difference if it's "normal in japan" because it shouldn't be. Workers rights are more important than respecting capitalist culture at their expense. There's also no reason to think Hale was aware of the situation at all, we have no idea what the circumstances were around her hiring and there's certainly the possibility she would not have taken the job if she knew what had happened.
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Oct 16, 2022 15:46
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i did not side with anyone. i understand that again my desire for discussion is counter to the impulse for being morally righteous but i would ask that you at least read what my posts say.
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Oct 16, 2022 15:47
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:If it's a cultural product of japan's work culture, then it's toxic as gently caress and there's zero reason to respect it. It doesn't make a difference if it's "normal in japan" because it shouldn't be. Workers rights are more important than respecting capitalist culture at their expense. There's also no reason to think Hale was aware of the situation at all, we have no idea what the circumstances were around her hiring and there's certainly the possibility she would not have taken the job if she knew what had happened. then it would perhaps be worth waiting to see what hales response is if anything, considering her stance. as for the normality of different cultures, all we have to go on is incomplete information, again. so it seems rash to start throwing out attacks against an entire culture as it is being percieved in the current moment, when we have no idea what happened or why.
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Oct 16, 2022 15:54
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Stux posted:we have no idea what happened or why. We do have a video from the person who was lowballed detailing how she was lowballed, and she was clearly upset enough to blow up her career over it, and a tweet from kamiya saying "LIES ALL LIES also don't @ me about this or i'll block you" that's not "no idea" that's "at least some idea" and is worth talking about.
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Oct 16, 2022 15:57
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Tism the Dragon Tickler posted:If at any point you find yourself siding with a corporation over its employees without extremely clear cut evidence that the employee is actually in the wrong, you've hosed up bad. It doesn't sound like she was an employee, just someone they hired for VA work when they needed her for specific jobs, so I am not sure your rule applies here.
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Oct 16, 2022 16:00
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I think it’s fair to not yet be having a specific take about cultural differences based on what was originally posted in this thread as “word on the street” Outside of that, I would be surprised if Hale comments, unless she also wants to break NDA. A proper journalist could dig in and uncover the full details and I wouldn’t be surprised if that happens, given that this story has gotten large enough to even be on TMZ’s radar.
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Oct 16, 2022 16:02
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Abhorrence posted:It doesn't sound like she was an employee, just someone they hired for VA work when they needed her for specific jobs, so I am not sure your rule applies here. So it's okay to lowball contract workers but not to underpay your actual employees? I don't think that makes any difference at all.
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Oct 16, 2022 16:03
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and she was replaced by another union worker whos outspoken about pay conditions who is presumably not taking the lowball offer. this would all be very clear if it was to kick out unionised workers and pull in people who would take poor pay and conditions instead.
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Oct 16, 2022 16:04
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Stux posted:and she was replaced by another union worker whos outspoken about pay conditions who is presumably not taking the lowball offer. this would all be very clear if it was to kick out unionised workers and pull in people who would take poor pay and conditions instead. If Hale knew about the lowball, why would she take the job? If she didn't know about the lowball, how does that mitigate the circumstances at all? And why would Taylor blow up her own career over this if it's just some corporate misunderstanding?
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Oct 16, 2022 16:09
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Worth keeping in mind that when people say 'cultural thing' a lot of the time people think of something like, deeply ingrained or understood by all, but in reality a lot of this stuff is seen as dumb things old people do over there, too. Spend five minutes with some random Japanese office worker, buy him a beer or two, and he'll spend the entire time bitching about that exact kind of 'understood, cultural' thing.
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Oct 16, 2022 16:10
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:So it's okay to lowball contract workers but not to underpay your actual employees? Where did I say that.
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Oct 16, 2022 16:11
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:So it's okay to lowball contract workers but not to underpay your actual employees? I don't think that makes any difference at all. there is a difference between giving someone a lowball "go away" job offer, and actually systematically underpaying a ton of contract employees a la Nintendo QA. most notably someone is actually getting underpaid in the latter scenario doing this would be extremely insulting but this isn't like, say, the anime VOs literally getting paid $150
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Oct 16, 2022 16:14
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:If Hale knew about the lowball, why would she take the job? If she didn't know about the lowball, how does that mitigate the circumstances at all? And why would Taylor blow up her own career over this if it's just some corporate misunderstanding? yeah its crazy its like we have no idea whats going on
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Oct 16, 2022 16:15
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Endorph posted:when she was approached for bayo 3 she was given an extremely low offer (presumably lower than she got for bayo 1 and 2). she complained. they came back to her with a higher but still low offer. she turned it down. they then got someone else. What it sounds like is that the work increased more than the salary. Apparently in Bayo 3 they wanted her to voice 5+ characters for that rate (which might be comparable to her previous wage.)
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Oct 16, 2022 16:17
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anyway this is assuming that a "go away offer" was actually the reason for them quoting an insultingly low rate which I'm almost positive we don't know either
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Oct 16, 2022 16:19
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Stux posted:yeah its crazy its like we have no idea whats going on Taylor posted a video with a pretty extensive explanation of what happened, is there a reason you don't believe her? e: vvv yeah it's this, but way to blow up my socratic method posting, jerk Dr. Fishopolis fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Oct 16, 2022 |
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Oct 16, 2022 16:21
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To say "we don't know enough about the situation to comment" is to say "I don't trust this woman who told us exactly what went on from her own perspective."
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Oct 16, 2022 16:22
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no, because i think there's a pretty big difference in the moral culpability of PG actually thinking they could get an entire game recorded for $4000 and them just wanting Hale for some reason and going about that in an insulting way. i don't think anyone is actually contesting the facts that she stated.
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Oct 16, 2022 16:25
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she said she was lowballed, presumably because they did not want her back. we do not know why she was not wanted back in the role however she was replaced with a prolific union worker who likely demands a higher pay check than the person who does not do other va work at this point. thats literally all of the information available currently.
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Oct 16, 2022 16:27
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Jennifer Fail
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Oct 16, 2022 16:29
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I don't actually care why they did it? How does that change the fact that they got rid of the classic VA in an insulting way and then publicly lied about what happened?
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Oct 16, 2022 16:31
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Clarste posted:I don't actually care why they did it? How does that change the fact that they got rid of the classic VA in an insulting way and then publicly lied about what happened? because however bad you think that is, i think it would be much worse if they legitimately thought $4K was a fair offer for that role.
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Oct 16, 2022 16:34
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What would have been a fair wage?
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Oct 16, 2022 16:36
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Feels Villeneuve posted:because however bad you think that is, i think it would be much worse if they legitimately thought $4K was a fair offer for that role. This is a difference without a distinction imo.
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Oct 16, 2022 16:38
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what is known is hosed up and there's no special cultural sensitivity rationale that will make what is known justifiable and cool
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Oct 16, 2022 16:38
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Vegetable posted:What would have been a fair wage? the union rates were posted upthread. unless they expected Taylor to run through all her lines in around 9 hours, while counting all the “alternate” bayonettas as the same role, a flat 4k wouldn’t have been close a flat fee was illicit to begin with, SAG-AFTRA rates are hourly
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Oct 16, 2022 16:45
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Vegetable posted:What would have been a fair wage? Hard to know without knowing exactly how much work was involved.
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Oct 16, 2022 16:45
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:This is a difference without a distinction imo. its actually a gigantic distinction lol
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Oct 16, 2022 16:51
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I think either way just because she was the VA for however many years doesn’t automatically give her the future rolls till the end of time. If they wanted to move on from her they should have just said that but whatever.
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Oct 16, 2022 16:54
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Hello thread
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Oct 16, 2022 16:55
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MarcusSA posted:I think either way just because she was the VA for however many years doesn’t automatically give her the future rolls till the end of time. Depends on if her previous contracts for the role also gave her right of first refusal or something Dr. Fishopolis posted:And why would Taylor blow up her own career over this if it's just some corporate misunderstanding? Because she doesn't have a voice acting "career" other than Bayonetta so she has nothing to lose mutata posted:Hello thread hi 
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Oct 16, 2022 17:03
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