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QuoProQuid posted:I read between the lines and took “testing” as the socially acceptable, diplomatic excuse Lionel has been using to prevent mass deployment because Miles wouldn’t accept his idea didn’t work at all. He already knows what will happen when Klear is sent out into the world and says as much in the pool. Yeah, I mentioned that. That means you can't send it in its gaseous state through pipes into peoples' homes. That would be a silly use of it anyways. Highly compressed hydrogen that is safe to carry in your pocket and only requires special handling when you convert it to a gas to burn would still be enormously useful. It would solve massive issues with converting our transportation infrastructure away from petroleum products. Lionel's concern represents the problem with rushing to market without careful testing and consideration. It in no way speaks to the fuel not being an extraordinarily beneficial invention. Like, fusion reactors run off hydrogen. There are any number of problems with them, but them going Hindenburg would be a moronic concern, which is why no one has it. And, you know, part of the point of the movie is these people not being as smart as they think they are.
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Dec 24, 2022 22:58
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You can make up your own complicating reason for why the science thing works the way the science character says it does, if it bothers you so much.
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Dec 24, 2022 22:59
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i can’t speak to the actual science but the audience is meant to understand it as fundamentally unworkable within the universe of the movie, yeah. the presentation is ”this is a stupid idea that only looks impressive, built on Theranos-level self-deception and illusions of grandeur and if Miles gets his way, a lot of people will die unnecessarily.”
QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Dec 24, 2022 |
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Dec 24, 2022 23:04
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The character is a lot of billionaires wrapped into one douchebag but it’s just funny that it came out when Musk was imploding. If it was Jeff Bezos people would say the same thing.
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Dec 24, 2022 23:10
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I’m fine with the idea that the movie is just dumb about the energy stuff, same way The Last Jedi is about politics and economics. Was just curious if that was everyone’s takeaway or if the same throwing-the-baby-out-with-the-bathwater logic might apply as it did with the Mona Lisa since there is a possible parallel. The core of the movie is just chilling with attractive and charismatic people, so not claiming it wrecks things.
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Dec 24, 2022 23:21
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QuoProQuid posted:i can’t speak to the actual science but the audience is meant to understand it as fundamentally unworkable within the universe of the movie, yeah. the presentation is ”this is a stupid idea that only looks impressive, built on Theranos-level self-deception and illusions of grandeur and if Miles gets his way, a lot of people will die unnecessarily.” There's literally a newspaper clipping shown at one point where Bron is posing like Elizabeth Theranos, and Andi mentions the Apple reality distortion field in the conference room, while Bron is wearing a very turtleneck-like top
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Dec 24, 2022 23:27
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Apple has made plenty of functional products, they’re just overhyped. Which would fit with Klear being pushed way too heavily but still having useful applications. Or it’s Theranos and a complete joke. Even Musk has dumb poo poo (Boring, Tesla) and functional things where he takes credit for others’ work (SpaceX). It’s not a particularly focused critique, it seems. Just sort of tech bro is bad and stupid in vague ways.
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Dec 24, 2022 23:47
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Argue posted:Just finished; it was really good, but I wasn't wholly satisfied with the ending. I also found the ending pretty unsatisfying for similar reasons. While the napkin was destroyed, Miles is still responsible for two murders and one attempted murder. Blanc deploying some further evidence to tie those to Miles would have felt more satisfying as a conclusion to what is ultimately a who-done-it. Smashing things up combined with Miles’ foolishness and hubris felt unearned. The fact that those themes were set up earlier doesn’t let the arbitrary ending off the hook. There were also a number of threads that I thought would go somewhere but which didn’t: the random guy staying on the island and the bottles of alcoholic (?) drink being chugged around the time of the pool scene. There was some fun stuff though: colourful characters, a nice mid-movie twist and a few neat jokes. However, taken as a whole, I liked it much less than Knives Out.
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Dec 25, 2022 01:12
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I saw it in a theater, loved it, and am planning to go back for round two sometime in the coming days. Wonder how the experiences differ besides overall Movie Theater Joy
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Dec 25, 2022 01:18
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Dial A For Awesome posted:
The purpose was to have Noah Sagan in the film.
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Dec 25, 2022 01:19
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Hand Knit posted:My absolute favourite character moment was Birdie J arriving wearing a mesh mask. You already have a very good idea what kind of idiot she is, but that one bit nails it perfectly. The face masks were a nice touch for all of them. As well as Birdie’s mesh mask, obviously Duke was maskless. Claire had one but was not wearing it properly (her nose was uncovered). Blanc, of course, had a mask that was both stylish and properly fitted.
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Dec 25, 2022 01:25
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A big part of the movie is that Benoit Blanc isn't a judge, jury, or executioner. He even talks about how he can only go so far and that he's not a bodyguard either. Things like evidence can only take you so far. Ultimately, direct action gets the goods. Even when the legal system seems poised to take down the murderer in this movie, it's only through false testimony that he's actually going to get convicted.
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Dec 25, 2022 01:28
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I have a real problem with everyone taking the random mysterious pharmaceutical spray without question.
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Dec 25, 2022 01:41
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a new study bible! posted:I have a real problem with everyone taking the random mysterious pharmaceutical spray without question. I think that was simply a narrative contrivance.
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Dec 25, 2022 01:45
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Bongo Bill posted:The villain did not read to me as having been conceived as a specific parody of Elon Musk. He's any dipshit tech billionaire, and indeed there are a few out there who fit him better. It's just a fortuitous coincidence that the movie came out right when a particular dipshit tech billionaire was very publicly corncobbing. There is one scene where he dons the black turtleneck and jeans
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Dec 25, 2022 01:51
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I’m sure it was, but it’s still pretty weird considering the rest of the movie.
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Dec 25, 2022 01:52
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Did I miss an explanation of why Benoit Blanc was allowed on the boat to the island, given he wasn't invited? Miles letting him stick around, even given the situation, can be put off on his arrogant lack of appreciation for his own stupidity and infatuation with celebrity. But is there anything in the scene with Ethan Hawke that relates to Blanc being a surprise? Even with him being a quasi-celebrity as the world's greatest detective, I don't assume that, like, Joey Chestnut would be instantly passed through a billionaire's private security without question. It's obviously fine if it's just a contrivance to make the movie work, but didn't know if they did something clever to explain it that you might pickup on a rewatch or whatever, like how they play it fair with the drink.
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Dec 25, 2022 02:09
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Sir Kodiak posted:Did I miss an explanation of why Benoit Blanc was allowed on the boat to the island, given he wasn't invited? Miles letting him stick around, even given the situation, can be put off on his arrogant lack of appreciation for his own stupidity and infatuation with celebrity. But is there anything in the scene with Ethan Hawke that relates to Blanc being a surprise? Even with him being a quasi-celebrity as the world's greatest detective, I don't assume that, like, Joey Chestnut would be instantly passed through a billionaire's private security without question. I mean, he had Andi's invite from Helen.
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Dec 25, 2022 02:33
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Arist posted:I mean, he had Andi's invite from Helen. I would rather take the perspective that we aren't supposed to think about it than imagine they really want us to believe that the security for a billionaire hosting a private weekend for half a dozen people is going to let in anyone with a particular piece of paper rather than knowing who is supposed to be there. It's a sillier explanation than not having one, which is ultimately fine. You assume a certain amount of nonsense to get a movie kicked off.
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Dec 25, 2022 02:51
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Arist posted:I mean, he had Andi's invite from Helen. Yea there was some fudging, but the whole thing is already played up as Bron being kind of a manic fuckhead. From his assistant Ethan Hawke’s perspective his dumbass boss added some detective at the last second, this is the kind of dumb poo poo he pulls without telling his employees so Hawke rolls with it, as does everyone else without much scrutiny. Same thing with the poorly built low-tide pier, the randomly misused words, etc etc. He’s surrounded himself with people who realize he’s kind of dumb so they all kind of roll with whatever and it just compounds
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Dec 25, 2022 02:53
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Yeah, to be clear, on the things I brought up, I'm asking whether I missed the movie being clever, or making a point to play things fair, like how it shows Miles handing off the glass on-screen. It's fine for the answer to be 'no,' because of course we can spin theories to justify anything, but considering I missed that instance of it playing fair with something prior to the reveal, I was curious if that applied to other parts of the movie.
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Dec 25, 2022 02:59
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Sir Kodiak posted:Yeah, to be clear, on the things I brought up, I'm asking whether I missed the movie being clever, or making a point to play things fair, like how it shows Miles handing off the glass on-screen. It's fine for the answer to be 'no,' because of course we can spin theories to justify anything, but considering I missed that instance of it playing fair with something prior to the reveal, I was curious if that applied to other parts of the movie. Eh I mean I don’t know it does require some observation but it’s not totally invented head canon theory: again the “Piso Ché” = “piece of poo poo” joke exists for a reason. The point is that despite knowing this guy is asking professional contractors/security/etc to do stupid stuff they go along with it cause he is the super rich boss. It’s not a stretch after knowing that he convinced people to build a lovely low tide only pier to think his security team would shrug and go along with it if a famous detective showed up for his indulgent murder mystery weekend. It’s a contrivance but it has basis in establish character and in-world logic
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Dec 25, 2022 03:40
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https://twitter.com/electrolemon/status/1606842206861807617
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Dec 25, 2022 03:49
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Guy A. Person posted:Eh I mean I don’t know it does require some observation but it’s not totally invented head canon theory: again the “Piso Ché” = “piece of poo poo” joke exists for a reason. The point is that despite knowing this guy is asking professional contractors/security/etc to do stupid stuff they go along with it cause he is the super rich boss. It’s not a stretch after knowing that he convinced people to build a lovely low tide only pier to think his security team would shrug and go along with it if a famous detective showed up for his indulgent murder mystery weekend. It’s a contrivance but it has basis in establish character and in-world logic Yeah, he does seem the sort of boss you can't question, and the other guests were talking about how fun it was that Miles invited this famous detective, which would help with the social cover. On the subject of the dock, was it completely made of ice or was I reading that wrong?
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Dec 25, 2022 03:58
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goblin week posted:Man this movie is gonna age like poo poo when Elon Musk dies in obscurity in three years Boy I wish I had your optimism.
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Dec 25, 2022 04:21
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a new study bible! posted:I’m sure it was, but it’s still pretty weird considering the rest of the movie. I posted this earlier: Hand Knit posted:We're obviously led to understand its some kind of oral vaccine/immunization but given how the movie goes I think we can look at it in retrospect as equally likely to be something insane like it's just disinfectant being sprayed in the mouth. So I think you're right to think it's weird. I think that fits within the movie just fine.
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Dec 25, 2022 04:57
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Sir Kodiak posted:
I think it was made out of glass, which notably does not float. I really liked the movie, though it annoys me that yet another movie so good with details missed that the Mona Lisa was painted on wood, not canvas. Part of me wonders if that was deliberate and the Louve just loaned him a fake knowing he was too stupid to know the difference. It would detract from the themes of the movie for that to be the case, though.
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Dec 25, 2022 05:02
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Also the main detective in Knives Out 3 should be Batista's mom
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Dec 25, 2022 05:31
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I get that Norton is supposed to be dumb as poo poo, but wouldn’t some who is dumb as poo poo and also recently committed murder have their monkey-brain fright reflex triggered by the worlds greatest detective show up uninvited on their island with the person they murdered? Why would you let this person get one sentence out of their mouth before sending him back on the boat He even had the opportunity to shoot him free and clear and didn’t. Also I might’ve missed something in the rapid fire reveals, but why is bron driving on a freeway away from Helen’s house proof that he murdered her? When Bautista gets to her house, he doesn’t find a crime scene, just an empty place. Why would he connect those dots
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Dec 25, 2022 06:04
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meanolmrcloud posted:Also I might’ve missed something in the rapid fire reveals, but why is bron driving on a freeway away from Helen’s house proof that he murdered her? When Bautista gets to her house, he doesn’t find a crime scene, just an empty place. Why would he connect those dots He didn't know that Bron killed her back then, he found out later when he got a alert on his phone that Andi was dead and figured it out.
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Dec 25, 2022 06:12
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meanolmrcloud posted:Also I might’ve missed something in the rapid fire reveals, but why is bron driving on a freeway away from Helen’s house proof that he murdered her? When Bautista gets to her house, he doesn’t find a crime scene, just an empty place. Why would he connect those dots well that’s the point is that it doesn’t set off any bells which is why Bautista doesn’t think anything of it at the time. It’s only in retrospect when you learn of her time of death that it lines up
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Dec 25, 2022 06:12
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The ending of the film would cost a tremendous amount of money. You have to secure things you rent. That explains everyone’s actions.
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Dec 25, 2022 07:12
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Just finished watching it. Fun movie. Last of Shelia was all over this. The beginning basically feels like an extended tribute to it with Norton's character being the Clinton with the games and everyone sucking up to him, but as soon as he mentioned his puzzle guy I saw were Rian was going to subvert the character type. I agree with other posts that it isn't really satisfying when it comes to being a good mystery, but I still had a good time with it and had plenty of funny bits. And if you are disappointed in that aspect do yourself a favor and watch Last of Shelia, its a much greater film with stronger mysteries and twists with 20 minutes less the running time. Its written by Anthony Perkins and Sondheim and it also has the whole evil rich people thing but more cynical. Anyway I am just happy to be getting any sort of murder mystery that is at least trying to have some level of fair play to it. And I do like these.
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Dec 25, 2022 07:37
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meanolmrcloud posted:I get that Norton is supposed to be dumb as poo poo, but wouldn’t some who is dumb as poo poo and also recently committed murder have their monkey-brain fright reflex triggered by the worlds greatest detective show up uninvited on their island with the person they murdered? Why would you let this person get one sentence out of their mouth before sending him back on the boat A)Because you’ve just invited six people who perjured themselves for you to make your fortune, and the person who told them she was going to expose/blackmail you is going to get revealed as having ‘committed suicide’ in a few days, so doing really suspicious things in front of them like telling a famous detective he isn’t allowed on your island seems like a bad idea. Brock had an inkling that Miles was involved in Andi’s death and immediately turned that into “get me on your new channel” leverage, what happens when all five of them realize they can own you with this? B) Because in what scenario does telling the super detective “no you can’t be here, go away” result in the detective shrugging and leaving you alone C) Because Miles is an idiot who thought he could get away with it. Look at how stunned and then pissed he gets when Blanc solves the murder mystery. And then, having seen what Blanc can do, he still commits murder right in front of Blanc and thinks bravado and false testimony will get him out of it. Also, lol, a lot of you guys really need to get over yourselves about this not being a perfect leftist critique of the wealthy. This was a great, fun film that told you it was a fugue and then executed it amazingly. It had great characters, hilarious dialogue, and a lot of interesting twists and turns.
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Dec 25, 2022 07:44
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i enjoyed watching jessica henwick's face in this movie
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Dec 25, 2022 07:56
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Hand Knit posted:I posted this earlier: lmao it's clearly just hydroxychloroquine. Trump was hawking it as early as April 2020, it's exactly the horseshit Bron would have bought into, and everyone, Blanc included, is now at risk thanks to Birdie's Plague Queen aesthetic. EDIT: And frankly that would be a wild-rear end way for Johnson to continue the franchise, showing Blanc dealing with long-term Covid or, hell, detailing the quarantine he had to spend away from his beloved Hugh Grant after the incident. Rampant Dwickery fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Dec 25, 2022 |
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Dec 25, 2022 10:09
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Having now watched the film for a third time (first at LFF, then during it's cinema release) I have noticed a few more things: like you can see Birdy's bag shake by the pool, in the background, when Helen throws her dictaphone in it. I like that Rian included the drink handoff (which I noticed the first time around) so that you can pick up on it (without drawing attention to it) and feel pleased with yourself for noticing. Most of the other reveals caught me off guard though. Dial A For Awesome posted:. That was the hard kombucha which Helen constantly chugged from, giving her the liquid courage to act like Andi around all these people she hated. And Deryl was just there because it was funny. Rampant Dwickery posted:lmao it's clearly just hydroxychloroquine. Carpet fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Dec 25, 2022 |
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Dec 25, 2022 10:34
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Carpet posted:
well I think it was just some dumb bullshit that a moron like Bron would think works.
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Dec 25, 2022 11:10
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I've been lurking this thread, and the only two things I want to chime in with are: 1) It's definitely not a narrow parody of Musk in particular. Alpha read as an amalgam of Facebook (because of the early-founder betrayal thing), Google (tech company with its fingers in everything, then name), and Amazon (tech company with its fingers in even more everything, most famous billionaire). Elon Musk fits the mold, but he only reads so strongly because he's an especially prominent dumbass-billionaire while the movie happened to release, way after it was written. If anything, I expect that Miles Bron was written as a cross between Bezos and Zuckerberg. These people aren't especially smart. It's almost unfortunate that one of them revealed themselves as undeniably dumb right before the movie released, because it encourages people to read the broader critique as about a specific person. 2) I liked almost everything about the ending, especially Blanc admitting that the truth wasn't going to actually help anything, except all the cronies suddenly turning on Bron, which I feel like pulled the punch the movie was throwing. I would have loved it if the movie ended with Bron shrugging off even the destruction of his island home. Yeah, he's losing everything that his company put behind the hydrogen fuel, which would probably be a nonstarter after this public disaster. But his toadies wouldn't realistically turn on him if he still has more wealth and power than they do, and he'd still be disgustingly rich at 10% of his starting wealth. It'd be a strong ending, and people would leave the theater frustrated and angry in a way I'd personally find satisfying. But yeah, this isn't my movie. And yeah, feel free to say I'm just a random leftist hoping the movie catered to me even more than it already did, so my take is dismissable that way. But idunno, I genuinely don't need every movie to cater to me politically, but I do think everything should try to be the most of whatever it is. It felt like it was trying to bite that particular hand, so bite hard while you're there. Ditocoaf fucked around with this message at 11:24 on Dec 25, 2022 |
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Dec 25, 2022 11:20
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Ditocoaf posted:1) It's definitely not a narrow parody of Musk in particular. Alpha read as an amalgam of Facebook (because of the early-founder betrayal thing), Google (tech company with its fingers in everything, then name), and Amazon (tech company with its fingers in even more everything, most famous billionaire). Elon Musk fits the mold, but he only reads so strongly because he's an especially prominent dumbass-billionaire while the movie happened to release, way after it was written. If anything, I expect that Miles Bron was written as a cross between Bezos and Zuckerberg. These people aren't especially smart. It's almost unfortunate that one of them revealed themselves as undeniably dumb right before the movie released, because it encourages people to read the broader critique as about a specific person. He's also wearing a Jobs-esque black turtleneck in the scene where Andi tells him that Klear is too dangerous to release, which Elizabeth Holmes of Theranos tried to copy in her wardrobe. skeleton warrior posted:Also, lol, a lot of you guys really need to get over yourselves about this not being a perfect leftist critique of the wealthy. This was a great, fun film that told you it was a fugue and then executed it amazingly. It had great characters, hilarious dialogue, and a lot of interesting twists and turns. Please discuss cinema in Cinema Discusso.
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Dec 25, 2022 13:48
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