January 2023 Current Events: Currenter Events

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > January 2023 Current Events: Currenter Events

Grip it and rip it: Apr 28, 2020

bulletsponge13 posted:

I disagree with the premise that blowback is false or that it was what Cheney et al used as an excuse, because they didn't from anything I've read. They wanted to control all the resources from AFG to the Syrian border, and made no qualms about it, even telling the IC to manufacture evidence.

It's not an abdication of responsibility. It's a justifiable reason for actions against an aggressor. America was the aggressor first, and we have done whatever we can to maintain that aggression and position more than the theocracy in Iran. Iran isn't pissy because they aren't a superpower. They are pissed because we can't keep our dick away from their face, and support their enemies in the region.

I'm not pro-Iran, but to act like they are the big baddie is buying into propaganda and supporting the MIC and it's destabilization of the Middle East.

I don't disagree with your last statement but I do with your first(post). Iran absolutely has done things on the international level that they need to be held accountable for. The current US position of attempting to relegate them to "rogue state" or international pariah is unacceptable, but that doesn't mean that they don't have a laundry list of sins that entail accounting for.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 19:04

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 19:29

M_Gargantua: Oct 16, 2006; STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES; Exciting Lemon

LongDarkNight posted:

Less 501st cosplayers, more Ferrix funeral band cosplayers.

Hit all fascists with a funeral brick.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 19:07

lightpole: Jun 4, 2004; I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

LtCol J. Krusinski posted:

Guys, as someone who is on a LOT of ignore lists, have you guys thought about using the ignore user function since your both incapable of disengaging?

Ignore and report bring shame on your posting and are dishonorable

# ? Jan 29, 2023 19:18

Milo and POTUS: Sep 3, 2017; I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?

Oh my god, huge brain fart. I've been reading 501st as 101st and assume we jumped from star wars to ww2 larping at some point. Christ that's embarrassing

# ? Jan 29, 2023 19:19

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

Milo and POTUS posted:

Oh my god, huge brain fart. I've been reading 501st as 101st and assume we jumped from star wars to ww2 larping at some point. Christ that's embarrassing

It's all the same poo poo when you get down to the heart of each.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 19:22

Eason the Fifth: Apr 9, 2020

lightpole posted:

Ignore and report bring shame on your posting and are dishonorable

# ? Jan 29, 2023 19:28

lightpole: Jun 4, 2004; I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

mlmp08 posted:

I think you should reread my post. I didn’t even mention what you are addressing, much less make the claim you claim I said.

I was using an example of how countries often maintain a deterrent or perceived capability, despite not wanting to use them. The example I used was that the US maintains nukes. I didn’t write a single word about Iran and nukes. The US uses nukes every day for deterrence, but doesn’t actively want to fire a nuclear weapon at anyone. Iran sometimes makes a stink about the SoH verbally, but they do not actually want to have to open that can of worms or even attempt it. It is a drastic move, which is why they threaten it sometimes in negotiations, but they don’t do it or want to get to that point.

I did not say a single word about Iran nuclear weapons programs; I do not know where you got that idea that that’s what I was arguing unless you just misread the post as written. Iran isn’t even pursuing a nuclear weapon capability!

There are a ton of reasons Iran wouldn’t want to close the SoH.

Economic reasons, lack of desire for military conflict with a bunch of other nations, attempting diplomacy or even threats before committing forces to combat, economic reasons again, having alternate and way less internationally despised means of pursuing retaliation, risk it would fail even if they tried, etc.

I think you're getting caught up in right and wrong.

Iran wants to control the SoH for obvious reasons and to flex that control when it benefits them. Doing so would hit oil prices which can also benefit them and create leverage against attack. All those reasons you listed against are also reasons they want to control it. They don't necessarily need to shut it down. The US does this with dollars and the banking system. I dont know if right now is a time when they want to actually shut it down but probably would be advantageous to them if they are facing attack.

I think if they actually had long term control over it most gulf states would probably come up with pipelines through Jordan or Oman or something though.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 19:30

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

The last time they mentioned it but didn't actually take action to close the SoH in 2012, the net result was that oil prices jumped 2% for a little while, Iran was sanctioned by multiple countries and the EU, and China expanding oil exports from Iraq rather than Iran and generally diversifying. Also a bunch of sailors and warships got moved around to go show presence, but meh. And throughout, Iranian messaging was kind of all over the place, with some parliamentarians making extreme statements, but the actual leadership largely saying that "if we have to, then we will.." but leaving the "if we have to" vague.

Now in a major shooting war, different story. I can absolutely see Iran making moves to close or at least limit SoH transits rather than allowing US or adversary coalition warships to flow freely. Some mysterious building explosions aren't a major shooting war.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 19:38

MrMojok: Jan 28, 2011

Milo and POTUS posted:

Oh my god, huge brain fart. I've been reading 501st as 101st and assume we jumped from star wars to ww2 larping at some point. Christ that's embarrassing

Well actually there is a real argument to be made that the 101st Abn in WWII was just as morally reprehensible as the 501st Imperial Legion after the fall of the Republic and furthermore

# ? Jan 29, 2023 19:46

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Ruh Roh

# ? Jan 29, 2023 19:47

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

Grip it and rip it posted:

I don't disagree with your last statement but I do with your first(post). Iran absolutely has done things on the international level that they need to be held accountable for. The current US position of attempting to relegate them to "rogue state" or international pariah is unacceptable, but that doesn't mean that they don't have a laundry list of sins that entail accounting for.

This I can agree with most of this.
I don't think treating them s a pariah state is helpful, but neither is not recognizing their autonomy, right to self defense, and ability to project power to their allies in the same way we do other nation states we haven't been a belligerant towards for like a 100 years.

Again, I'm not saying they are the good guys, but they sure as hell aren't the villains we try to make them out to be, either.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 20:04

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

mlmp08 posted:

Ruh Roh

Yeah was about to say, I always assumed it was based off the 501st Heavy Panzer....which doesn't help

# ? Jan 29, 2023 20:15

US Berder Patrol: Jul 11, 2006; oorah

CommieGIR posted:

Yeah was about to say, I always assumed it was based off the 501st Heavy Panzer....which doesn't help

501st makes me think of the Band of Brothers parachute infantry regiment, but we probably shouldn't give these nerds the benefit of doubt

# ? Jan 29, 2023 20:37

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

US Berder Patrol posted:

501st makes me think of the Band of Brothers parachute infantry regiment, but we probably shouldn't give these nerds the benefit of doubt

They've been around since 97, well before the tv show though a few years after the book.

Also lmao at their Wikipedia article.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 20:41

M_Gargantua: Oct 16, 2006; STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES; Exciting Lemon

mlmp08 posted:

People got opinions about nuclear power.

People have wrong opinions on the internet. There is only one right opinion and its more nuclear power now.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 20:48

That Works: Jul 22, 2006; Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy

M_Gargantua posted:

People have wrong opinions on the internet. There is only one right opinion and its more nuclear power now.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 20:51

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

M_Gargantua posted:

People have wrong opinions on the internet. There is only one right opinion and its more nuclear power now.

I'm Comrade Blyatlov and I endorse this message

# ? Jan 29, 2023 21:05

maffew buildings: Apr 29, 2009; too dumb to be probated; not too dumb to be autobanned

M_Gargantua posted:

People have wrong opinions on the internet. There is only one right opinion and its more nuclear power now.

Wow, two perfect takes in this thread in one day. What a gift!

# ? Jan 29, 2023 21:20

Wrong Theory: Aug 27, 2005; Satellite from days of old, lead me to your access code

M_Gargantua posted:

People have wrong opinions on the internet. [/i]

Buddy, don't even get me started.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 21:26

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

In fairness, I'm the only one who advocated for more nukes.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 21:34

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

No I always want more nuke, either in powerplant or airburst form

# ? Jan 29, 2023 21:59

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

No I always want more nuke, either in powerplant or airburst form

QTIYD

# ? Jan 29, 2023 22:10

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

M_Gargantua posted:

People have wrong opinions on the internet. There is only one right opinion and its more nuclear power now.

Dehumanize yourself and face the blue glow.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 23:17

Coasterphreak: May 29, 2007; I like cookies.

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

No I always want more nuke, either in powerplant or airburst form

# ? Jan 29, 2023 23:35

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

bulletsponge13 posted:

Yeah, because that's exactly what I said, you dipshit.

We dicked over their country for most of the 20th century. We supplied their enemies for decades. We invaded them on two borders, destabilized the region, and declared them enemies- after they tried to help. They are doing the exact same poo poo we do, but they are bad guys for it? Seriously, every single thing you just listed as their crime, we did to them, too. Exceptionalism cuts both ways- if it's OK for us to do it, it's OK for them to do it.

If you want to get into it, America does worse daily than the poo poo you've listed, before getting into Human Rights. If you want to get into that, we have no moral high ground, either.

Seriously. I'm not Oh Up the Ayotollah. I'm saying that Iran is the less bad guy in this conflict, and the Aneeican policies towards Iran are what created this beast. I'm tired of pretending they are the boogie man when they aren't.

Edit: It looks like the argument smoothed out so I'll edit this down to just say: My entire point is that Iran has absolutely done bad things on the geopolitical stage.

Godholio fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Jan 29, 2023

# ? Jan 29, 2023 23:47

TheWeedNumber: Apr 20, 2020; by sebmojo

Iran is not the boogeyman, but they can all die screaming if they get in the way. How's that for a hot take?

# ? Jan 29, 2023 23:51

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; as a person who never leaves my house i've done pretty well for myself.

CommieGIR posted:

Iran can have 1 nuke if they disband the government and let the women run the place.

Joking aside: Yeah its not exactly suprising Iran wants a nuclear weapon, since its basically the ONLY thing that would stop any sort of future US invasion from even being planned. At this point it'd actually be foolish to expect them not to seek one.

Nukes work.

If I led a nation that the U.S. was hostile to, and I thought that we could pull it off, I�d be all over that poo poo.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 00:01

TheWeedNumber: Apr 20, 2020; by sebmojo

Godholio posted:

Edit: It looks like the argument smoothed out so I'll edit this down to just say: My entire point is that Iran has absolutely done bad things on the geopolitical stage.

So has every other nation I can think of. As someone who would happily crush the Iranian people to a nub if they got in "our" way geopolitically, let's pause for a sec and loving call a spade a spade. Our body count and tally of "heinous poo poo" since the formation of the Union up until the present is off the charts. If we didn't do it ourselves, we worked through our partners and allies to get the poo poo done. We've drained the sea of people in Vietnam, and jumped for joy when the Indonesian genocide occurred way back during the Cold War. We cheered because it was a geopolitical win for us to drop the 3rd largest communist party in the world and a leading voice of the Non-Aligned Movement at the same time. Not only have we drained the sea, but we also trained our partners in Latin America to do it too.

Put up a map of the world. Throw darts at that bitch till you run out of darts. Go dig into their history. I bet the groundskeeper from the cemetery will come knocking in a few hours, tops, to ask you to please put the skeletons back in the grave where they belong.

Every nation has done dirt. Some more than others. We're definitely in the "more" category. We shouldn't be surprised by the pushback and get offended that they pushed back. That's just disingenuous IMO.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 00:10

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

Question for the room- where do we draw the line? Who decides what assassination is OK, and which isn't? Which country gets to war crime to the top of the leader board? I'm not saying that no one should face punishment, but at the same time, why is it only our declared "enemies" face judgement or get eyed for justice, when our loving Allies do the same poo poo or worse? I'm being genuine in asking- who decides the line, where it is, and what the repercussions are?

As an aside, I'm so loving over this bullshit of Iran being the boogeyman when he's just a Scooby-Doo Doo villain we made. Call me jaded, because it's hard for me to get wrapped around the axle that Iran supplied dudes EFPs when we did airstrikes on Quakers.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 00:34

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

bulletsponge13 posted:

Question for the room- where do we draw the line? Who decides what assassination is OK, and which isn't? Which country gets to war crime to the top of the leader board? I'm not saying that no one should face punishment, but at the same time, why is it only our declared "enemies" face judgement or get eyed for justice, when our loving Allies do the same poo poo or worse? I'm being genuine in asking- who decides the line, where it is, and what the repercussions are?

As an aside, I'm so loving over this bullshit of Iran being the boogeyman when he's just a Scooby-Doo Doo villain we made. Call me jaded, because it's hard for me to get wrapped around the axle that Iran supplied dudes EFPs when we did airstrikes on Quakers.

this guy op

# ? Jan 30, 2023 00:39

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

shame on an IGA posted:

this guy op

Captain War Crime is a bold choice, but I approve.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 00:40

TheWeedNumber: Apr 20, 2020; by sebmojo

shame on an IGA posted:

this guy op

I need to watch this finally to understand because I do not understand the significance of this pic.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 00:44

Stravag: Jun 7, 2009

bulletsponge13 posted:

Captain War Crime is a bold choice, but I approve.

Hes gonna lose that title now that gal gadot is a starfleet captain

# ? Jan 30, 2023 00:45

TheWeedNumber: Apr 20, 2020; by sebmojo

bulletsponge13 posted:

Question for the room- where do we draw the line? Who decides what assassination is OK, and which isn't? Which country gets to war crime to the top of the leader board? I'm not saying that no one should face punishment, but at the same time, why is it only our declared "enemies" face judgement or get eyed for justice, when our loving Allies do the same poo poo or worse? I'm being genuine in asking- who decides the line, where it is, and what the repercussions are?

As an aside, I'm so loving over this bullshit of Iran being the boogeyman when he's just a Scooby-Doo Doo villain we made. Call me jaded, because it's hard for me to get wrapped around the axle that Iran supplied dudes EFPs when we did airstrikes on Quakers.

Whoever serves the greater good of the species IMHO. If your mind is drawing a blank, that's probably by design.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 00:45

TheWeedNumber: Apr 20, 2020; by sebmojo

Stravag posted:

Hes gonna lose that title now that gal gafot is a starfleet captain

Throwback:

# ? Jan 30, 2023 00:45

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

TheWeedNumber posted:

I need to watch this finally to understand because I do not understand the significance of this pic.

you really should DS9 at its best is all about wrangling moral ambiguity and it was literally impossible to appreciate as a child when it was in first-run

B5 tackles all the same questions better though

# ? Jan 30, 2023 00:48

That Works: Jul 22, 2006; Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy

bulletsponge13 posted:

Question for the room- where do we draw the line? Who decides what assassination is OK, and which isn't? Which country gets to war crime to the top of the leader board? I'm not saying that no one should face punishment, but at the same time, why is it only our declared "enemies" face judgement or get eyed for justice, when our loving Allies do the same poo poo or worse? I'm being genuine in asking- who decides the line, where it is, and what the repercussions are?

As an aside, I'm so loving over this bullshit of Iran being the boogeyman when he's just a Scooby-Doo Doo villain we made. Call me jaded, because it's hard for me to get wrapped around the axle that Iran supplied dudes EFPs when we did airstrikes on Quakers.

Couldn�t say but I remember arguing with a friend when Syria just got started that Assad should have gotten got and I still think that would�ve been better for the world in general if he died right early on.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 00:51

TheWeedNumber: Apr 20, 2020; by sebmojo

shame on an IGA posted:

you really should DS9 at its best is all about wrangling moral ambiguity and it was literally impossible to appreciate as a child when it was in first-run

B5 tackles all the same questions better though

I can�t remember if B5 or Farscape was the one with Australians in space.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 00:53

Thwomp: Apr 10, 2003; BA-DUHHH; Grimey Drawer

They�re both good so watch em both.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 00:57

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 19:29

TheWeedNumber: Apr 20, 2020; by sebmojo

Thwomp posted:

They�re both good so watch em both.

I�m gonna do diet war crimes and watch Andor for rn.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 00:58

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