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champagne posting posted:I dislike fizzbuzz. it tells me nothing as an interviewer and even less as an interviewee i love fizzbuzz because it tells me within 15 minutes whether its worth carrying on with the rest of the interview.
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Feb 6, 2023 18:16
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My interview for my current job did a Fizzbuzz and I'm pretty sure I pointedly rolled my eyes when they brought it up. They were then oddly impressed by me doing "i % 15 == 0" instead of "i % 3 == 0 && i % 5 == 0"
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Feb 6, 2023 19:16
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like idk maybe you guys dont have this issue, but around half of the people I interview cannot do a fizzbuzz without a lot of coaching. One person tried to argue with me about how if statements worked.
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Feb 6, 2023 19:20
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rotor posted:like idk maybe you guys dont have this issue, but around half of the people I interview cannot do a fizzbuzz without a lot of coaching. One person tried to argue with me about how if statements worked. it does bespeak lovely sourcing of interviewees but you cant do anything about that as a normal toucher
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Feb 6, 2023 19:22
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literally every single interview i have done for underclass level intern positions has been orders of magnitude more complex or domain specific than fizzbuzz. who is giving fizzbuzz to real applicants??
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Feb 6, 2023 19:24
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i think rotors company is prolly a lot more shambolic than the stuff you're applying to you do get a lot different sort of interview (and hopefully candidate, assuming your candidate pipeline itself isnt dog poo poo) for the 400k jobs than the 100k jobs and prolly thatll always be the case bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Feb 6, 2023 |
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Feb 6, 2023 19:27
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rotor posted:like idk maybe you guys dont have this issue, but around half of the people I interview cannot do a fizzbuzz without a lot of coaching. One person tried to argue with me about how if statements worked. very much the same (obviously, as the fellow fizzbuzz defender). with fizzbuzz as a standin for that level of task rather than necessarily literally that task. it is not even a purely negative test, candidates that can both do fizzbuzz and communicate with other human beings (the other first hour interview check) are pretty often good candidates.
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Feb 6, 2023 19:28
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lord fifth posted:literally every single interview i have done for underclass level intern positions has been orders of magnitude more complex or domain specific than fizzbuzz. who is giving fizzbuzz to real applicants?? After your dozens of real applicants fail to write a single line of valid code you tend to look for different ways to evaluate....or in my case, move the test earlier in the process to avoid wasting time. I seriously had a similar long term success rate with hires by using simple coding tests as a way to trivially reject the unqualified as I did with more complex tests designed to separate top tier from mid to top.
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Feb 6, 2023 19:29
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also, part of this is that most candidates come with a cv, when it comes to complex domain stuff having a chat on cv contents mostly covers it ime.
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Feb 6, 2023 19:32
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lord fifth posted:literally every single interview i have done for underclass level intern positions has been orders of magnitude more complex or domain specific than fizzbuzz. who is giving fizzbuzz to real applicants?? I totally expected to get a harder question after the Fizzbuzz, but nope!
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Feb 6, 2023 19:32
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:also, part of this is that most candidates come with a cv, when it comes to complex domain stuff having a chat on cv contents mostly covers it ime. i have never completely trusted a cv or cv chat and its served me well in many many instances
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Feb 6, 2023 19:33
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theflyingexecutive posted:project ideally The dual edged sword here is that Project Manager is a hugely variable job title....ie you already have enough experience to apply for a role called Project Manager, but you'll likely be overqualified for some of the roles and underqualified for others. If you had some cheap easy credential (like a CSM or something) or some way to show in your resume / application that you knew what user stories were and the basics of how to write them plus some general agile vocabulary it'd probably be enough to get you an interview. If you play up the complexity of managing relationships, the number of folks you were coordinating, the stakes of what you were delivering, etc, I bet you could build a reasonable proxy for what software PM folks are looking for. Timelines, budgets, stakeholder management, cat herding, etc are all things you can talk about and all directly apply to software PMing.
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Feb 6, 2023 19:33
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a teacher friend recently told me her curriculum includes teaching fizz buzz to elementary students. they use different words, but it's literally "here's a list of numbers, write foo next to multiples of 3, bar next to multiples of 5, and foobar next to multiples of both"
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Feb 6, 2023 19:47
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fizzbuzz was taken from the elementary school exercise not the other way around
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Feb 6, 2023 19:50
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nudgenudgetilt posted:a teacher friend recently told me her curriculum includes teaching fizz buzz to elementary students. they use different words, but it's literally "here's a list of numbers, write foo next to multiples of 3, bar next to multiples of 5, and foobar next to multiples of both" yeah i did something like this in elementary school. class got in a big circle and youd go around counting. you had to say the special word for each multiple or you were out of the game (and a stupid loser)
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Feb 6, 2023 19:57
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https://twitter.com/terminallyOL/status/1622571890513526784
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Feb 6, 2023 23:14
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 powerful
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Feb 6, 2023 23:20
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I feel I've put together a decent pm resume. I've also zeroed in on PMI's CAPM as the best balance of a cheap and fast way to get a recognizable PM credential on there (all of my pming experience has been rather informal).
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Feb 8, 2023 22:34
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if that grey border thing is a page break it needs to not be a page break
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Feb 8, 2023 22:37
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bob dobbs is dead posted:if that grey border thing is a page break it needs to not be a page break cool. I can kill some dead space
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Feb 8, 2023 22:57
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You can safely drop the research assistant position.
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Feb 8, 2023 23:59
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it feels great when you interview someone who clearly knows their stuff and solves a problem well, talks about it well, and asks clear and useful questions feels great to be the person doing that as well but that happens to me less tbh!
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Feb 9, 2023 01:56
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Chopstick Dystopia posted:it feels great when you interview someone who clearly knows their stuff and solves a problem well, talks about it well, and asks clear and useful questions must be nice. this week i interviewed someone who claimed a decade of experience as a "full stack engineer" and had mongodb, postgres, and mysql all listed under their skills. a favorite easy filter question of mine is just "give me a high level overview of the differences between these, and tell me when you might consider using each". all I could get out of the guy was to use mongodb when you have a lot of data and want to be fast, and use mysql or postgres if you're in an enterprise environment. couldn't get anything about document stores vs relational databases or clustering and failover out of him. just fast/big = mongo, enterprise = sql.
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Feb 9, 2023 02:10
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nudgenudgetilt posted:must be nice. this week i interviewed someone who claimed a decade of experience as a "full stack engineer" and had mongodb, postgres, and mysql all listed under their skills. a favorite easy filter question of mine is just "give me a high level overview of the differences between these, and tell me when you might consider using each". all I could get out of the guy was to use mongodb when you have a lot of data and want to be fast, and use mysql or postgres if you're in an enterprise environment. couldn't get anything about document stores vs relational databases or clustering and failover out of him. just fast/big = mongo, enterprise = sql. wow, they didn't even get https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs
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Feb 9, 2023 02:16
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it always boggles me when people suck so bad at their interviews. it's like my guy, i literally just asked you an easy question about a thing you said you were good at. why are you failing. this is so sad for you.
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Feb 9, 2023 02:18
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resumes are marketing documents they have the same relation to the truth as other marketing documents its advice for the resume writer but also for the resume reader
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Feb 9, 2023 02:23
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Achmed Jones posted:it always boggles me when people suck so bad at their interviews. it's like my guy, i literally just asked you an easy question about a thing you said you were good at. why are you failing. this is so sad for you. Interviews can be very stressful for a million different reasons and learning to read incompetence from interview nerves as an interviewer is a good skill in my experience  . Funnily enough FizzBuzz fits in this category where its simple enough even if you got interview nerves you should get it without much trouble.If I'm on a technical panel I always lead with that I don't care what your resume says or the position is for. If its beneath you, you can answer it in 30 seconds and we all happily move on. The number of PhDs I gotta interview who cant do basic coding challenge is staggering in my experience though.
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Feb 9, 2023 18:58
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yeah like i get it, interviews are stressful but I can only lower the bar so far. Like i dont even insist you get fizzbuzz perfectly right, but you cant struggle with syntax and you cant be confused about how if works vs if/else.
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Feb 9, 2023 19:13
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rotor posted:yeah like i get it, interviews are stressful but I can only lower the bar so far. Like i dont even insist you get fizzbuzz perfectly right, but you cant struggle with syntax and you cant be confused about how if works vs if/else. most fundamentally you have to be able to talk about how it is going like a human being. which unfortunately filters out a lot of people with anxiety, but also filters out so many bad candidates that i can't really bend on it. ideally i'd be able to fully differentiate between the two, but that is genuinely difficult.
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Feb 9, 2023 19:22
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my teams take home question is fairly simple, it's literally "given a url get the body and return an md5 hash of it" It's really interesting seeing the variety if responses, they invariably fall into one of three categories : 1. long/complicated answer because they don't understand the request or know how to do it 2. one liners 3. long/complicated answer because they're showing off regardless of the solution it gives us some insight into how they think and helps guide further conversation
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Feb 9, 2023 19:24
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The Fool posted:my teams take home question is fairly simple, it's literally "given a url get the body and return an md5 hash of it" my favorite async screener was a question on the application that was something like "Obtain a token from the HTTP service described in the HTTP SRV record for foo.com. A simple GET / against the host and port described in the record will return a token." i just had nginx running on a box serving up '{"token": "youfoundthetoken"}'.
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Feb 9, 2023 19:29
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Mr. Crow posted:learning to read incompetence from interview nerves as an interviewer is a good skill yeah i have that skill, that's why im still regularly confused by people who are just incompetent of course if you're wrong you'll never know but that's epistemology for you
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Feb 9, 2023 19:34
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rotor posted:yeah like i get it, interviews are stressful but I can only lower the bar so far. Like i dont even insist you get fizzbuzz perfectly right, but you cant struggle with syntax and you cant be confused about how if works vs if/else. Ya 100%, I guess I was circling back to why I think something like FizzBuzz is and will always valuable. If you cant answer FizzBuzz competently thats incompetence or nerves that I don't want to deal with. If you can and start hamming up further questions maybe I'll give benefit of the doubt everything else considering. I guess it must be nice to have an interview process where you can trust that everyone you get has a certain measure of competency, certainly I've been asked it or its equivalence at FAANGs (in the distant past) so I'm not sure who that is but
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Feb 9, 2023 19:47
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programmer interviews are bad, especially on the low end, because its a lucrative field without any real accreditation body or process. So its flooded, especially at the low end, with people trying to fake it until they make it. edit: and i mean god bless those people, i wish them the best of luck, but if you cant do a fizzbuzz you aren't doing a good enough job of faking it.
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Feb 9, 2023 20:08
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rotor posted:because its a lucrative field without any real accreditation body or process. So its flooded, especially at the low end, with people trying to fake it until they make it. isn't that every generic corporate job tho
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Feb 9, 2023 20:14
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generic corp jobs dont pay 400k at the mid-senior level and 120k at the junior level
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Feb 9, 2023 20:16
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rotor posted:programmer interviews are bad, especially on the low end, because its a lucrative field without any real accreditation body or process. So its flooded, especially at the low end, with people trying to fake it until they make it. I actually saw an opinion article in the Journal of the ACM (Association for Computing Machinery for those who don’t know— basically IEEE for programmers) suggesting that programming is a profession, like being a lawyer or a doctor, and needs a professional organization and accreditation process. The article made a convincing case.
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Feb 9, 2023 21:16
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imo if software devs want to be called 'engineers' so badly they should have to study, apprentice, and certify like the rest of the engineering professions
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Feb 9, 2023 21:32
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never forget hillel waynes lil blog series about it cuz i havent https://www.hillelwayne.com/post/are-we-really-engineers/
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Feb 9, 2023 21:34
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a lot of this is the same grass-is-greener crap that leads everyone in every country to say that other countries are better at everything
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Feb 9, 2023 21:35
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