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Orcs and Ostriches
Aug 26, 2010


The Great Twist
Yeah. Things like MCH tools and GNB Sonic Break all say that.

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Bloody Pom
Jun 5, 2011



One nice thing about FF14 is that your ability tooltips are very informative, to the point of spelling out things that you might just assume out of common sense.

Contrast WoW, which I think has simplified tooltips by default, with the option for detailed ones buried under several layers of menus.

Antivehicular
Dec 30, 2011


I wanna sing one for the cars
That are right now headed silent down the highway
And it's dark and there is nobody driving And something has got to give

Yeah, I've always been impressed by how much just looking at the Actions and Traits menu and reading tooltips has helped when I'm confused about a skill or rotation.

hopeandjoy
Nov 28, 2014



MCH being so much on the GCD is screwing me up as I'm starting to level it. Like, I cannot figure out when the hell to shoot off Hot Shot on my own without looking it up.

Bloody Pom
Jun 5, 2011



hopeandjoy posted:

MCH being so much on the GCD is screwing me up as I'm starting to level it. Like, I cannot figure out when the hell to shoot off Hot Shot on my own without looking it up.

I'd suggest opening with Reassemble into Hot Shot, because it'll build up muscle memory for when Hot Shot becomes Air Anchor and gets its potency buffed to match your other long-cooldown buttons. Otherwise you just use it whenever it's available since it doesn't break your combo, and the 60s recast makes it line up nicely with buff windows.

As a general rule of thumb you want all your big buttons to be on cooldown before using Wildfire and Hypercharge, since you'll end up wasting heat stacks by using them instead of spamming out Heat Blasts and oGCDs.

Bloody Pom fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Feb 10, 2023

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Bloody Pom posted:

One nice thing about FF14 is that your ability tooltips are very informative, to the point of spelling out things that you might just assume out of common sense.

But always in the most baffling way possible. "This weaponskill does not share a recast timer with any other actions" is an insanely vague way of saying "this skill does not apply its cooldown/recast timer to other spells it shares a global cooldown with." If you're trying to specify the difference between the two things and how this skill interacts with them, referring to just one of said things without any explanation or context doesn't do that very clearly.

From character/system options to tooltips to names of different buttons in the UI, it almost always feels like they're trying to write the technical stuff in Eorzea-speak, and it is absolutely not cute or helpful. We know from all the Koji-fied item descriptions that the localization team has a firm grasp on the nuances of conversational English, so why do this? I have wondered this so many times. Whatever the answer is, I do not enjoy having to Google what every single thing means despite having spent a lifetime playing these games.

And yeah, it frankly seems unlikely that anyone would assume a spell would lock you out of all your other abilities for a full minute. Even if someone did somehow get that impression, they would learn it wasn't the case the first time they tried to press any similar button on any class. It doesn't need clarifying, and trying to do so anyway in Urianger-esque jibberjabber just confuses the matter by making the whole thing sound more complicated than it actually is.


E: loving riddled with typos

Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Feb 10, 2023

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006

Unsinkabear posted:

"This weaponskill does not share a recast timer with any other actions" is an insanely vague way of saying "this skill does not apply its cooldown/recast timer to other spells it shares a global cooldown with."

Which nobody would ever assume to be the case anyway.

radintorov
Feb 18, 2011
I wonder if it has to do with breaking a combo, since Goring Blade can be used at any time without interrupting the usual 1-2-3 combo and (I think) the Confiteor combo?

edit: no, nevermind, I just looked up other skills that don't break combos and that's not it

Mainwaring
Jun 22, 2007

Disco is not dead! Disco is LIFE!



On that note it's frankly bullshit that atonement breaks combos.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006

My assumption is it used to be because of TP and it doesn't break anything not to change it so they won't.

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Aphrodite posted:

My assumption is it used to be because of TP and it doesn't break anything not to change it so they won't.

They fixed so many other dumb combo breakers with Endwalker though, so that kind of makes leaving this one in feel deliberate. I can't work out why either, though

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006

Oh yeah, I meant for Goring. Atonement is just their choice for some reason.

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


Unsinkabear posted:

They fixed so many other dumb combo breakers with Endwalker though, so that kind of makes leaving this one in feel deliberate. I can't work out why either, though

It allows an area of skill expression in being able to know when to drop atonements to get the buff window lined up right. Here's the trick: If when your next GCD comes up and your FoF is 4 or less seconds away, that's your cue to drop any remaining Atonements.

Endings
Jan 17, 2012

Close your eyes...

Aphrodite posted:

Which nobody would ever assume to be the case anyway.

Yes, but some actions /do/ trigger a longer global cooldown, like Island Sprint, which sets every gcd on a... 5? 10? second cooldown. Which is why they feel the need to specify, I guess.

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Endings posted:

Yes, but some actions /do/ trigger a longer global cooldown, like Island Sprint, which sets every gcd on a... 5? 10? second cooldown. Which is why they feel the need to specify, I guess.

Island Sprint just got added, I know of no other examples, and the tooltips have been that way for years.

GilliamYaeger
Jan 10, 2012

Call Gespenst!

Unsinkabear posted:

Island Sprint just got added, I know of no other examples, and the tooltips have been that way for years.
Six Sided Star or whatever that one Monk move is called.

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Fair. Is that a newer spell? I don't think I have that one unlocked yet, only took monk to 67 or something.

Endings
Jan 17, 2012

Close your eyes...

Unsinkabear posted:

Fair. Is that a newer spell? I don't think I have that one unlocked yet, only took monk to 67 or something.

A lot of the 'general' actions used to do it. Stuff like materia melding or desynth, though I think a lot of them don't now.

XIV tooltips are weirdly technical in that way, though, where they'll specify things that you'd have no reason to think would be an issue, and leave out things that could probably use additional calling out because they're not actually part of the action being described itself.

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Yeah actually there's a few different instances of faster or slower GCDs that end up affecting everything. Summoner's Ruby Ruin and Emerald Ruin. Red Mage's melee combos.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?
Wouldn't it be better to mark those as the ones that do affect the global cooldown, then?

Xerophyte
Mar 17, 2008

This space intentionally left blank

Alxprit posted:

Yeah actually there's a few different instances of faster or slower GCDs that end up affecting everything. Summoner's Ruby Ruin and Emerald Ruin. Red Mage's melee combos.

Also: Eukrasia and Eukrasian spells on Sage, Heat Blast and Autocrossbow on Machinist, ninjutsu things on Ninja, the Enshroud attacks on Reaper, dance moves on Dancer and literally every single weaponskill on Monk.

Spells and Weaponskills with odd recast times are surprisingly common.

Allarion
May 16, 2009

がんばルビ!
I just always read them as weaponskill buttons that are not part of your normal combo. A lot of them also usually don't break your combo but you have a reason to push them in your rotation.

ShootaBoy
Jan 6, 2010

Anime is Bad.
Except for Pokemon, Valkyria Chronicles and 100% OJ.

Well its nearly 3:30 in the morning, but I did what I set out on and pushed through MSQ. God it feels nice to have flight, hadn't quite realized how much I missed it. No clue what'd I do with the fantasia though if I even wanted to.

Kwyndig
Sep 23, 2006

Heeeeeey


Keep it until FemHrothgar come out, be the swolest catlady.

Feldegast42
Oct 29, 2011

COMMENCE THE RITE OF SHITPOSTING

You don't have to use it right away, I ended up using mine to just adjust my eye color.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
Mine's still in my retainer, along with the second Jandelaine token they give you because everything I was dissatisfied with got fixed in one visit.

Mostly I haven't fantasia'd because my name is very Hellsguard and I'd only be tempted to fanta into Lalafell for the comedy.

Qwertycoatl
Dec 31, 2008

I've never fanta'd but I frequently change my hair between the style I like best and a style that doesn't clip into big collars

Neo_Crimson
Aug 15, 2011

"Is that your final dandy?"

Qwertycoatl posted:

I've never fanta'd but I frequently change my hair between the style I like best and a style that doesn't clip into big collars

I really, really, wish you could assign hairstyles to glamour plates.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


I spent $15 on Lyse's hair to get a ponytail big enough to not (as badly) clip through (some) collars

God Hole
Mar 2, 2016

So this is my first "new" FF since FFX, which I'm realizing was over 20 years ago lmao. this also my first mmorpg

and goddamn I'm hooked. I'm a lvl 21 tank and about to start the first dungeon, which I'm a little apprehensive about cuz I let my npc party members die about 4 times on the last stage of the hall of the novice.

though I think that's mainly because I'm having a hard time with the targeting system with a gamepad. I try to move freely around the battlefield during a fight but my character keeps locking on to the nearest enemy rather than the one I want to (or I don't want to lock on at all), so I start strafing instead of running and the camera stops responding so readily. Does anyone have any tips for moving around a bit easier during battle? I feel like that's been my largest hindrance toward gaining control of the battlefield and directing enmity toward myself.

btw anybody here on Exodus? I like the idea of joining a goon FC or even just chillin, but it doesn't look like Excalibur is gonna open anytime soon

hopeandjoy
Nov 28, 2014



If you’re using a controller, Legacy movement is a much better option. It makes movement like most 3D console video games (move in 360 degrees with left stick, move camera with right stick). To lock on without making yourself strafe, use the right and left D-pad to cycle enemies and then hit A/X. To cycle through party members, use up and down.

I recommend turning on the auto target and turning off “maintain camera distance” if using Legacy movement.

DelphiAegis
Jun 21, 2010
The control options and UI tweaks for ffxiv are pretty great, and there's a way to support basically any style of play. If you're 21 already, take some time messing with the control options and stuff in the system and character configurations, there's a lot of hidden options there that even veterans forget about.

Selane
May 19, 2006

If you're having issues with locking on to the right enemies and such, try watching this video. It covers pretty much every type of targeting possible on a controller, including some you might not have known about.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

God Hole posted:

and goddamn I'm hooked. I'm a lvl 21 tank and about to start the first dungeon, which I'm a little apprehensive about cuz I let my npc party members die about 4 times on the last stage of the hall of the novice.

A couple of things to bring up for newbie tanks:

--The Novice Hall encourages burning down one enemy at a time, the playerbase uses AoE on everything. That's going to vary at low levels (melee dps don't get AoE for quite a while) but as a tank you're going to be hitting that button more often than single-target rotations. I like to look at the colors on the threat list to tell if something's gotten away from me because it was outside the AoE range or one dragoon's going ham single-target or whatever. (Related: turn on tank stance. Any time levels get synced it turns off and is easy to forget. Don't worry, we've all missed it multiple times.)

--Early dungeons are all over the place with enemy placement and "packs". Endgame strategy is "pull until whatever arbitrary wall they put up, kill everything at once" but early dungeons aren't built for that and neither you nor the healers have the toolkit to stay safe doing that. You can do more than one pull at a time, and more is better in that respect, but how much is too much can only be learned by experience so feel out what you're comfortable with and if any dps give you gruff tell them where to stick it. (If healers give you gruff that either means they have tools in reserve and know they can handle the extra damage you'll be taking, or they're idiots.)

--Remember your mitigation abilities. No tank gets to be self-sufficient (at least until somewhere in the 50s when skills start coming up that let us approximate it for a while) but even a 10% damage reduction for a few seconds can blunt things enough for the healer to have a much easier time. At 21 you have Rampart (20% reduction for 20 seconds) and Low Blow (stuns a single target for 6 seconds) regardless of your class, and at 22 you get Reprisal (reduce enemy's damage by 10% for 10 seconds, AoE). Plus whatever class skills you have as well; I can never remember when those show up until I go into low dungeons and reach for a button that isn't there.

Bruceski fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Feb 12, 2023

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


God Hole posted:

So this is my first "new" FF since FFX, which I'm realizing was over 20 years ago lmao. this also my first mmorpg

and goddamn I'm hooked. I'm a lvl 21 tank and about to start the first dungeon, which I'm a little apprehensive about cuz I let my npc party members die about 4 times on the last stage of the hall of the novice.

though I think that's mainly because I'm having a hard time with the targeting system with a gamepad. I try to move freely around the battlefield during a fight but my character keeps locking on to the nearest enemy rather than the one I want to (or I don't want to lock on at all), so I start strafing instead of running and the camera stops responding so readily. Does anyone have any tips for moving around a bit easier during battle? I feel like that's been my largest hindrance toward gaining control of the battlefield and directing enmity toward myself.

btw anybody here on Exodus? I like the idea of joining a goon FC or even just chillin, but it doesn't look like Excalibur is gonna open anytime soon

Turn your tank stance on when you enter the dungeon (it will be off by default anytime your level is synced) and hit every enemy with your aoe, unless there is only one enemy, then you just face it away from the party and press 1-2-3. That's all there is to tanking at level 20.

Later on you get damage mitigation buttons to use and you should cycle through them when fighting groups since packs of small enemies hurt a lot. Players generally expect dungeons to be speedrun, and when you're new you can take it slow but you'll gradually get comfortable with pulling more and going faster, because if you use the mitigations properly you can take way more damage than you think

Feldegast42
Oct 29, 2011

COMMENCE THE RITE OF SHITPOSTING

make sure you try to use your mitigation cooldowns proactively, popping your 30% damage reduction (all the tanks get one in ARR iirc, with varying names and visual effects) does little to save you if you are almost dead and the healer can't keep up

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Ignore what Bruceski said about healers, though. Some people aren't comfortable or genuinely aren't capable of healing through wall pulls, and that's okay. Lots of different types of people play this game, and that's important to remember when you're participating in any multiplayer content that isn't Savage or something competitive like ranked Crystalline Conflict.

By all means wall pull as your default, I do. It's reasonable to expect most of the time. But if you're dying repeatedly or the healer asks you to slow down, slow down. Don't make them feel lovely or worse ignore them and keep doing it over and over anyway despite getting the same poor results (and yes, enough bad tanks do this that I have to say it :cripes:)

Luxury Tent Carpet
Feb 13, 2005

I hunted the Orphan of Kos and all I got was this stupid t-shirt
Don’t be shy about saying it’s your first time when the dungeon starts, it can help set expectations with the pace of things when your healer just races off on autopilot!

Maximum Tomfoolery
Apr 12, 2010

Don't forget that Arm's Length is decent mitigation too, but only on trash packs (bosses are immune to Slow).

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Luxury Tent Carpet
Feb 13, 2005

I hunted the Orphan of Kos and all I got was this stupid t-shirt
Has arms length always caused slow and I just never knew until recently? I feel like I see this tip everywhere now and I don’t think I ever saw the skill mentioned before outside of preventing knockback

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