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I'm not arguing that Sae doesn't suck, she's a hilarious trashfire in basically all of her scenes.
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Feb 15, 2023 18:13
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I just had to double check Sae's ending of becoming a defense attorney because I don't remember it at all and it's like, two lines at most? lol
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Feb 15, 2023 18:20
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roomtwofifteen posted:I just had to double check Sae's ending of becoming a defense attorney because I don't remember it at all and it's like, two lines at most? lol
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Feb 15, 2023 18:22
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I mean, Sae absolutely sucks, but I would argue that a cop who completely opts out of the system and takes up a career actively opposed to the police is the best kind of cop. At that point she's no longer a cop, so mission accomplished! But uh, Makoto is still there so... two steps forward, one back I guess? Assuming post-game Sae doesn't talk her off that cliff anyway. roomtwofifteen posted:I just had to double check Sae's ending of becoming a defense attorney because I don't remember it at all and it's like, two lines at most? lol It's the curse of being the last character to get story progression. When 95% of your arc is grilling the main character for crimes, there's no time for the remaining 5% to actually sink in and get explored. At the very least at the end of the 3rd semester she is already printing business cards with "Defense Attorney" on them. lmao
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Feb 15, 2023 18:27
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Hey, at least she gets Zenkichi out of jail in Strikers so that he could go Monsieur Madeleine on some shadows.
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Feb 15, 2023 20:03
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I think it'd be polite to mark Persona 5 Strikers spoilers as such; I don't think everyone has played that!
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Feb 15, 2023 20:06
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I think it'd be polite to mark Persona 5 Strikers spoilers as such; I don't think everyone has played that! It's on my list (currently paused on my P5R replay to obsess over Farthest Frontier), but I still moused over that spoiler and thought to myself, "I have no idea who that is," because I'm a reflexive idiot and never think about spoilers for myself. I'll forget by the end of day.
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Feb 15, 2023 20:43
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anakha posted:Hey, at least she gets Zenkichi out of jail in Strikers so that he could go Monsieur Madeleine on some shadows. P5 and Strikers spoilers I like how in both P5 and Strikers the thieves dodge major legal trouble because the police are so corrupt and used to just being able to do whatever the gently caress they want nobody bothered to do extremely basic procedural stuff like like have a paid off mortician confirm Joker's body or get a judge to sign off on the warrant for their arrests.
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Feb 15, 2023 23:12
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Warmachine posted:Coerced confessions OP. Less blithely, I have no reason to suspect that Sae was ever immune to the same injustices that plague the rest of the Japanese legal system. ACAB. I was more going for a joke that Sae's go-to interrogation tactic is to demand who helped them with any random skill. "WHO TAUGHT YOU CLAW GAMES! ANSWER ME!"
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Feb 16, 2023 01:36
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Warmachine posted:
You're missing out one of the many many layers that makes Hades a great game - and that's the NPC dialogue. Hypnos almost always comments on what killed you. Gods often comment with unique dialogue when you use "their" weapons - and may mention boons from the other gods you've met so far. And then there's the threesome and I think Dusa going missing is a reaction to your rank with them. Hades was created on a very limited budget with a small team and isn't fundamentally about the NPCs - but they still manage to be a lot more reactive and therefore more real than any Persona ones just by way of having some reactions to what you are doing in the world mixed in there. Edit: Honestly Hades is very Persona-like, with pretty similar social mechanics (spend Nectar or Ambrosia/spend time to rank up your confidants which help you against the backdrop of an overarching plot where your teenager develops powers and levels up). It's close enough a basic structure that I wonder if Persona was an inspiration, but in many ways it iterated and improved on that structure with more reactive NPCs that even have conversations with each other when you'd normally expect them to be free. neonchameleon fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Feb 16, 2023 |
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Feb 16, 2023 03:38
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neonchameleon posted:You're missing out one of the many many layers that makes Hades a great game - and that's the NPC dialogue. Hypnos almost always comments on what killed you. Gods often comment with unique dialogue when you use "their" weapons - and may mention boons from the other gods you've met so far. And then there's the threesome and I think Dusa going missing is a reaction to your rank with them. Hades was created on a very limited budget with a small team and isn't fundamentally about the NPCs - but they still manage to be a lot more reactive and therefore more real than any Persona ones just by way of having some reactions to what you are doing in the world mixed in there. Again, square peg and a round hole. Those bits aren't changing the narrative or the outcomes, and it's not even on the level we were discussing of inserting a reaction to Joker's relationships into meetings the PT have or making the other girls aware of each other when roasting Joker for n-timing them. Aphrodite will comment on your relationship status, but this will trigger at any time, and she never interacts with anyone other than you outside the duo boons--and her comments about shooting your shot with notable Ace Dusa aren't a part of those interactions. Hades is structured in such a way that Zag's development in the side plots never collides with the main story about learning who your mom is, the deceptions that put everyone in this mess, and getting everyone together to tell just enough truth that Demeter will settle down and not trigger the Olympian equivalent of an international incident. Which is exactly how Persona 5 is structured. P5R I think scores higher here since your social links all pitch in when your rear end is in the slammer to lobby for your release if you've got them at max rank. I won't deny that Hades accounts for quite a few off-target interactions (using Sigil of the Dead against Hades himself, for instance. "Father!" "Son!"), but it still doesn't fit the bill of "your actions in the optional content alter the context of the main story."
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Feb 16, 2023 04:18
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P3P: Thanatos's skills are pretty disappointing given it's significance at the beginning of the game. How do I improve its skills without making it a worse Alice? Die For me doesn't inherit in Portable right?
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Feb 16, 2023 04:29
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It does not. I made him a physical dude whenever I used him, but honestly I barely used him
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Feb 16, 2023 04:34
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Yeah, it's worth remembering that he's one of the few SL Personas to be a guaranteed unlock (since it's a story SL), so it's not super powerful to compensate.
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Feb 16, 2023 05:42
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P3P: Just finished Sun. Probably my favorite social link in the Male MC path so far. P5 Sun was a good social link as well. Wonder why they missed the mark so badly in P4 though.
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Feb 16, 2023 07:03
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Persona 4 has two completely separate Sun S-links and I don't like either of them
YggiDee fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Feb 16, 2023 |
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Feb 16, 2023 07:08
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YggiDee posted:Persona 5 has two completely separate Sun S-links and I don't like either of them Huh? Yoshida's confidant is the same in both vanilla and Royal. I assume you're referring to P4 instead.
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Feb 16, 2023 07:10
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Hm, what is everyone's fave social link across the series is, in terms of arcana? Sun and Justice are the ones that spring to mind, but Sun was kind of a dud in 4, and Justice in 3 is the single worst social link in the series, at least on the lady route. I like all the Priestesses as characters, but their social links specifically are not very exciting. I guess I'd say the Hierophant? There's no bad Hierophant, and one of them is Sojiro.
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Feb 16, 2023 07:12
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If the baseline is 'no duds across P3/P4/P5', then I think Hierophant's the only real choice. The arcana that's bad across all three? I offer up Devil.
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Feb 16, 2023 07:19
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I was going to say Temperance because Kawakami is great and the French kid who says Hasta La Vista is funny, but I cannot for the life of me remember what the Temperance link was about in 4. Hell I don’t even remember the character.
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Feb 16, 2023 07:33
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P4's Temperance is kinda lame. It's the latchkey mom from the babysitting job.
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Feb 16, 2023 07:36
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The problem is that a lot of P3 SLs suck rear end and thus mar their arcana.
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Feb 16, 2023 07:48
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Hm, what is everyone's fave social link across the series is, in terms of arcana? Sun and Justice are the ones that spring to mind, but Sun was kind of a dud in 4, and Justice in 3 is the single worst social link in the series, at least on the lady route. None of them are my favourite but I have a soft spot for Hanged Man's quality over the years. Maiko's SL hits differently for me now that I'm older, Naoki's is an underrated SL about coming to terms with death, and Iwai is a good dude. My favourites for each individual Arcana are actually pretty evenly split among the games, which is a nice surprise.
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Feb 16, 2023 07:51
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Yeah, Hanged Man is also solid; I'd rank it and Moon as the really solid side characters in 4. I'd also put Hermit up there; 4's is just a good boy who does good deeds, 5's is Futaba, and the male route's in 3 sounds like a fun concept, but the Hermit on the female route is probably the darkest social link and I think in the end I appreciate that the MC has absolutely no way to deal with it other than just being a supportive friend, because it's not something you can resolve by hanging with a fellow teen 10 times.
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Feb 16, 2023 08:58
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Male MC Hermit felt like a whole bunch of nothing IMO.
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Feb 16, 2023 12:04
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Yeah, Hanged Man is also solid; I'd rank it and Moon as the really solid side characters in 4. Yeah Saori's SL is definitely something that I don't even know if we'd see in a more modern Persona game. It ends on a bittersweet note rather than just bitter but also like... there's no 'real' resolution other than 'okay sometimes life sucks, but you can't look to others to solve it for you'. That said I'm only really high on Futaba, 4's is just side quests wrapped up in a SL in the same vein as 4's Empress. As for 'worst' Arcana... I dunno. I want to say Temperance personally because Becky is good but the SL is not, and the rest don't really do anything for me. Actually it might be Tower.
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Feb 16, 2023 12:12
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P4 tower affected me emotionally on a greater level than like half the main story. Love that little guy
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Feb 16, 2023 12:19
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P3 Tower's character is cool enough that I wouldn't consider it the worst overall. I just disliked Devil's implementation across all three games. I might come around later on P3's Hanged Man, but it's another meh one for me right now - not for Maiko herself but for how irritating I found the parents to be. Death might have been near the top too if it hadn't been disqualified in my book for being story-driven in P3. The old lady in P4 was adorable and Tae is Tae. anakha fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Feb 16, 2023 |
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Feb 16, 2023 12:24
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I think I'd call it resolution for Saori to recognize that she's a victim and get away from her family and into therapy, and she doesn't get there in her social link, but I like to imagine it happens eventually. I can't think of a social link where I didn't at least like one of them. Devil has two major duds, but P3's is both a good social link and a source of amazing commodities.
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Feb 16, 2023 12:41
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Personal stance on favourite for each Arcana,, probably bad opinions ahead: Magician: Junpei (sorry Brosuke) Priestess: FeMC!Fuuka Empress: FeMC!Mitsuru Emperor: Kanji Hierophant: Sojiro (Dojima would be here if maxing his SL had some story significance, but alas) Lovers: FeMC!Yukari (honestly none of them are that amazing but yanno) Chariot: Ryuji Justice: Nanako Hermit: Futaba Fortune: Ryoji Strength: Daisuke (I love Good Boy Koromaru, but his SL, while adorable, doesn't actually have a lot of substance) Hanged: Iwai Death: Hisano Temperance: Becky (more for the character than the SL) Devil: uhhh I don't even know, Nurse I guess Tower: Mutatsu (I guess?) Star: Akihiko Moon: Shinjiro Sun: Akinari Not gonna judge Aeon because eh. Really just says how good the female MC's links are.
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Feb 16, 2023 12:59
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I assume you're not counting the P5R outings as part of the Strength confidant, because otherwise that's clearly the biggest miss on there. I'd thematically lump in Faith with the Aeons and then also pick Faith as my fave among those.
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Feb 16, 2023 13:21
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I'd thematically lump in Faith with the Aeons and then also pick Faith as my fave among those. If that's the case, then you should also lump in Hope given the character, and a world where Hope isn't the consensus favorite is not a world I wanna live in. I'd make the argument that the entirety of Strikers is the progression of that arcana. anakha fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Feb 16, 2023 |
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Feb 16, 2023 13:39
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I was actually thinking of mentioning her as well, but Strikers doesn't do conventional social links. If we're counting her, then yeah, duh, no contest. E: Also if we're counting Strikers characters, the Apostle is a deck variant of the Hierophant, and if we're talkin anyone with the Arcana, Hierophant also Shinjiro's persona. I wouldn't rank either above Sojiro, but that only cements the Hierophant as the most solid overall group. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Feb 16, 2023 |
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Feb 16, 2023 14:03
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P3 definitely had a few characters whose SLs differed from their actual Arcana, though it's more the female side with Akihiko being Emperor and having Star as a SL, and Shinjiro being Hierophant and having Moon as the SL. But both genders also had Aigis, who was Aeon SL despite having a Chariot Persona. Honestly they could have had Akihiko replace Hidetoshi and nobody would really care, but I guess maybe they thought Mamoru wouldn't fit as a SL for FeMC? I dunno, P3's choices can be a bit weird at times.
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Feb 16, 2023 22:00
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I think I'd call it resolution for Saori to recognize that she's a victim and get away from her family and into therapy, and she doesn't get there in her social link, but I like to imagine it happens eventually. Yeah, I'd even go so far as to say that Saori's ending is more sweet than bitter. Her family sucks and what she went through is horrible, but she realizes her own value and gets to go to a new school where she can start a new life for herself. She's able to recognize that she deserves to be treated better and with respect and that's the first step towards healing.
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Feb 16, 2023 22:20
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I have a deep appreciation for many SLs in this series, but P3's Sun SL is the only one that really hosed me up. Masterful work
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Feb 17, 2023 06:12
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P3P: Motherfucker, Elizabeth was insanely hard to beat. Took me more than a dozen tries and most of the day to figure out her pattern and finally be able to buy the needed fusion spells and craft a persona specifically to counter her. If Margaret is as tough as her sister, I'm not gonna have a good time.
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Feb 17, 2023 14:00
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anakha posted:P3P: Motherfucker, Elizabeth was insanely hard to beat. Took me more than a dozen tries and most of the day to figure out her pattern and finally be able to buy the needed fusion spells and craft a persona specifically to counter her. she definitely isn’t, at least in the vanilla version. Elizabeth is an SMT-esque “do all these things perfectly for exactly seventy-five rounds or the boss will fully heal, one-shot you and then steal your credit card info.” Margaret is just a very tough boss
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Feb 17, 2023 15:05
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P3(P): Margaret is so much easier than Elizabeth/Theo that it's not even funny. She does a gimmick of her own, sure, but it's more based on the number of turns in the fight (she changes phases every 10 turns; you need to do 5000 damage in each phase otherwise you just lose is the easy explanation). Elizabeth/Theo is dumb as hell because you have to win in exactly one way and there is no way around it and it's RNG dependent multiple times over on when you're allowed to finish. Genuinely straight up my least favourite superboss in the series because of it.
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Feb 17, 2023 15:16
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Edit: never mind. Omoikane + Angel + Pixie worked.
HaB fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Feb 17, 2023 |
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Feb 17, 2023 21:42
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