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Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005

a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

infernal machines posted:

hypothetically, what if we just reverted to the windows 2000 ui?

what would we lose?

i think watercolor is a pretty good update on it. it shows it doesn't need to necessarily be that plain without sacrificing functionality

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infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we have sealed ourselves away behind our money, growing inward, generating a seamless universe of self.
the watercolor theme does look good, but i'm fine with plain and functional too.

i swear, if it could actually bare metal boot windows 2000 on this computer and have a usable system, i would

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005

a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face
yeah that's true. i like a couple of the whistler ui tweaks (some of the explorer stuff, and the login screen and associated modals are cool) but otherwise the theme is just a bunch of overlaid bitmaps

i could take or leave the start menu redesign. it never really bothered me but i also don't think it's necessarily better

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



i practically never use the start menu

only use like 5 pinned apps

Sweevo
Nov 8, 2007

i sometimes throw cables away

i mean straight into the bin without spending 10+ years in the box of might-come-in-handy-someday first

im a fucking monster

infernal machines posted:

hypothetically, what if we just reverted to the windows 2000 ui?

what would we lose?

an entire generation of UI designers would cry themselves to death because everything doesn't look like a phone app

so yeah, not really seeing a downside

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we have sealed ourselves away behind our money, growing inward, generating a seamless universe of self.
imagine for a moment having an os that didn't spend the first 10 minutes after installation forcing you through signing into "value added" online services, demanding your consent for analytics and ad tracking, and bombarding you with toasts, prompts, and notifications for every single feature

like, you installed it, and it was done, and you could just start using it for the things you intended to use your computer for.

man, that'd be loving wild. or linux, i guess.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

otoh the fedora ui for installing a driver from diskette is not on gtk4 yet, so linux is kind of pretty bad where it really matters

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

infernal machines posted:

imagine for a moment having an os that didn't spend the first 10 minutes after installation forcing you through signing into "value added" online services, demanding your consent for analytics and ad tracking, and bombarding you with toasts, prompts, and notifications for every single feature

like, you installed it, and it was done, and you could just start using it for the things you intended to use your computer for.

man, that'd be loving wild. or linux, i guess.

Perplx
Jun 26, 2004


Best viewed on Orgasma Plasma
Lipstick Apathy

infernal machines posted:

imagine for a moment having an os that didn't spend the first 10 minutes after installation forcing you through signing into "value added" online services, demanding your consent for analytics and ad tracking, and bombarding you with toasts, prompts, and notifications for every single feature

like, you installed it, and it was done, and you could just start using it for the things you intended to use your computer for.

man, that'd be loving wild. or linux, i guess.

also what if buying a new machine and transferring everything was so seamless you go a decade without even doing initial setup

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

me @ ur posts


Fun Shoe

Perplx posted:

also what if buying a new machine and transferring everything was so seamless you go a decade without even doing initial setup

that's OS X

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we have sealed ourselves away behind our money, growing inward, generating a seamless universe of self.
nobody with modern online service integration has managed that, for security reasons, if nothing else

imo that just means that poo poo shouldn't be in the os, but whatever

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we have sealed ourselves away behind our money, growing inward, generating a seamless universe of self.

even osx needs multiple sign-ins and authorizations when doing a profile transfer, and it will still spam the hell out of you with prompts and notifications on first run even if you have transferred a profile

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005

a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

lol no its not

F_Shit_Fitzgerald
Feb 2, 2017



infernal machines posted:

imagine for a moment having an os that didn't spend the first 10 minutes after installation forcing you through signing into "value added" online services, demanding your consent for analytics and ad tracking, and bombarding you with toasts, prompts, and notifications for every single feature

like, you installed it, and it was done, and you could just start using it for the things you intended to use your computer for.

Linux :eng101:

e: Between "accidentally" testing ads in File Explorer and all the other spyware nuisances of 11, it does seem like Microsoft is destroying what's good about Windows in more recent versions, though.

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we have sealed ourselves away behind our money, growing inward, generating a seamless universe of self.
i actually did some workflow tests just to see what options i have when windows 10 is out of support or i get some hardware that no longer works properly with the windows 10 scheduler.

i can do 90-something percent of my daily stuff on linux just fine, with the caveats that gnome and kde are loving terrible and i'd spend a bunch of time making them look less poo poo, and i have to use the web-based versions of office apps.

i can do everything i need basically the same way i do now with a windows server install using the desktop experience role, but who knows what state that will be in come 2025

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005

a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face
if "just running some windows" apps is your goal, wine is fine

it might not be able to do modern office (i don't know) but it's much much better than it used to be. you can even apply windows xp era visual styles

or not, to revert to the win2k ui

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004

i'd miss the icon dock-like taskbar that they ripped off from apple if they suddenly reverted back to windows 2k ui

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

infernal machines posted:

i actually did some workflow tests just to see what options i have when windows 10 is out of support or i get some hardware that no longer works properly with the windows 10 scheduler.

i can do 90-something percent of my daily stuff on linux just fine, with the caveats that gnome and kde are loving terrible and i'd spend a bunch of time making them look less poo poo, and i have to use the web-based versions of office apps.

i can do everything i need basically the same way i do now with a windows server install using the desktop experience role, but who knows what state that will be in come 2025

did you try xfce?

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we have sealed ourselves away behind our money, growing inward, generating a seamless universe of self.
i've used it before, but not in these specific tests. it's fine, it's also not something i want to use daily for work

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005

a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face
xfce with a windows theme + wine when running apps is pretty much visually and functionally the same as using windows 7 with the classic theme

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we have sealed ourselves away behind our money, growing inward, generating a seamless universe of self.


there's a lot to unpack here

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005

a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face
i mean, at least you could revert most of that poo poo up until windows 8. windows 7 with most of the visual style bullshit turned off is still quite usable

similarly you can configure xfce to behave like windows 2k, xp, 7+ and also turn off most of the compositing poo poo in wine

of course the problem is that they kept this functionality (the registry edits are proof), but also completely removed any kind of settings for it

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005

a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face
...literally just realized that's debian

that's a pretty good theme. shame it's luna

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we have sealed ourselves away behind our money, growing inward, generating a seamless universe of self.
i'm just annoyed that there's no longer a desktop workstation version of windows that just lets you use the os without bombarding you with prompts and nags and never ending bullshit bundleware

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we have sealed ourselves away behind our money, growing inward, generating a seamless universe of self.
like, i've installed the os, now get out of my way and let me configure it the way i want and stop haranguing me

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we have sealed ourselves away behind our money, growing inward, generating a seamless universe of self.
if i have to spend an hour to make the desktop environment not terrible and configure wine, etc. i may as well just deal with windows' bullshit

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005

a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

infernal machines posted:

if i have to spend an hour to make the desktop environment not terrible and configure wine, etc. i may as well just deal with windows' bullshit

i get this, but it's really not that difficult. wine works pretty much out of the box and it takes maybe 10 minutes tops to quickly configure xfce, the themes are mostly self-contained (though you can use parts) and it's already pretty windowsy

idk, it's really not a big deal to me, the ui in windows 10+ is worse enough to use that i think it's worth it most of the time

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

Tankakern posted:

didnt know microsoft got another one on their payroll in here

I tried to get on Microsoft's payroll but they did a hiring freeze right before sending me the offer. :mad:
Other than that, I use Edge because it's just Chrome but from a slightly more trustworthy company.

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004

akadajet posted:

I tried to get on Microsoft's payroll but they did a hiring freeze right before sending me the offer. :mad:

same with me and apple. verbal offer and everything :(

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

Last Chance posted:

same with me and apple. verbal offer and everything :(

It's amazing how the whole hiring bubble fizzled out overnight.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

akadajet posted:

It's amazing how the whole hiring bubble fizzled out overnight.

it was also kind of amazing that this last bubble happened to start with. genuinely unclear why everyone just hired wildly for a couple of years and then changed their minds entirely.

unless capitalism was wrong about the value of a thing of course, but that would make the axiomatic system inconsistent, so let's disregard.

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we have sealed ourselves away behind our money, growing inward, generating a seamless universe of self.

Beeftweeter posted:

i get this, but it's really not that difficult. wine works pretty much out of the box and it takes maybe 10 minutes tops to quickly configure xfce, the themes are mostly self-contained (though you can use parts) and it's already pretty windowsy

idk, it's really not a big deal to me, the ui in windows 10+ is worse enough to use that i think it's worth it most of the time

it's not that it's difficult, it's that i have to waste time doing it rather than just using the product, which to me is the same problem with either one.

tbh the only reason i'm still on windows with this latest workstation build is i like having hdr and properly supported hardware accelerated video decoding, and all i had to do was move the ssd from the old system into the new one. if i had to re-install windows, i wouldn't have

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005

a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face
yeah i mean i'm not gonna try and make the case that there aren't valid uses for windows, obviously that's not true. configuring linux like that just makes everything a bit more comfortable feeling

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

me @ ur posts


Fun Shoe

Beeftweeter posted:

lol no its not
so.

every time I've had to move a Mac account from one machine to another, all my poo poo comes over. application preferences, browser bookmarks, documents, etc. all that poo poo is just there on my new machine, ready to go. that's what I'm talking about.

at work, any time I get a new machine, none of that happens. like even during a formal hardware replacement, I have to start over from scratch with all the application settings and poo poo because it just doesn't migrate, even if they supposedly migrate my user profile from one to the other. like even my loving Outlook sig has to be redone.

the only time I've had to move windows at home I just used Winclone.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

every time ive had to move windows over ive had bill come over to do it, seamless every time. idk what you're doing messing about with it, did steve claim he died to not have to answer your calls?

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we have sealed ourselves away behind our money, growing inward, generating a seamless universe of self.
you can migrate profiles using 3rd party tools like profwiz and all your settings and such will come over.

what will break are modern apps, which store significant program components in the user profile, and if they're something that doesn't run on the new system (e.g. oem brand specific apps) they will still half exist there and can't ever be removed without really loving up the acls on the folders they're contained in.

microsoft also has a mechanism to sync settings via microsoft accounts (azure and live). these do nothing useful as far as i can tell

roaming profiles and folder redirection have been variously broken since at least windows xp and in a best case scenario they'll cause weird behaviour in some apps and at worst they will break things in ways that are difficult to troubleshoot

none of this has anything to do with the things i was talking about

infernal machines fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Feb 24, 2023

That Fucking Sned
Oct 28, 2010

I’m the dumbass with a Microsoft account who still has to configure everything on each fresh install because only a few settings are saved properly

Thank you for remembering my desktop background. No, you may not access my mic, camera, radios(?) or anything a program might want without my permission

qirex
Feb 15, 2001

infernal machines posted:

like, i've installed the os, now get out of my way and let me configure it the way i want and stop haranguing me

hundreds of product managers’ careers depend on those features. do you know how much private school costs in redmond?

burning swine
May 26, 2004



Chris Knight posted:

so.

every time I've had to move a Mac account from one machine to another, all my poo poo comes over. application preferences, browser bookmarks, documents, etc. all that poo poo is just there on my new machine, ready to go. that's what I'm talking about.


the latest version of windows still only relaunches about 25% of the apps you had running when it reboots itself for updates

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burning swine
May 26, 2004



infernal machines posted:

i'm just annoyed that there's no longer a desktop workstation version of windows that just lets you use the os without bombarding you with prompts and nags and never ending bullshit bundleware

LTSC but they are trying really hard to force people off of it

for example, teams isn't supported on ltsc

I don't see this as a problem

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