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i've never had a problem with jira. sounds like y'all should make your own jira boards instead of letting bored PMs bury you under a bunch of lovely plugins or whatever
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Feb 28, 2023 21:43
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Achmed Jones posted:y'all should make your own jira boards why the gently caress would i ever do that i'm a developer, not a jira janitor
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Feb 28, 2023 21:46
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here's how you do it: 1. click new board 2. use it, don't gently caress with it, dont let other people gently caress with it and it's fine this is a "stop buying candles" problem
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Feb 28, 2023 21:55
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this assumes you have enough organizational power to say gently caress off when some pissant comes up to you about using The Board which frankly isnt gonna happen in some places
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Feb 28, 2023 21:57
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Achmed Jones posted:this is a "stop buying candles" problem *moves the "no" card to the "in review" column* Wait why do I have to log my time for that
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Feb 28, 2023 21:58
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dogshit processes are tools-agnostic
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Feb 28, 2023 22:05
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Its a Rolex posted:my old startup job had a basically completely unconfigured JIRA which I used for grouping tickets by project and a really basic kanban board. it was nice and easy to navigate and pretty much entirely manual. the "cant drag items between columns" is a classic workflow fuckup where clowns add useless steps or delete the original steps in the default agile flow.
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Feb 28, 2023 22:10
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 gonna see if i can get this poo poo made group policy or something
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Feb 28, 2023 22:16
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set dark mode to system setting while ur in there
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Feb 28, 2023 22:18
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12 rats tied together posted:the worlds best project management software where you can't assign two people to a ticket, you have to invent an entire vocabulary for stripping tasks down to their smallest traceable unit and being able to align them back up to a company effort instead of being like "12 rats and the new hire fixed the apache config. ticket done" if you have engineer brain, sure enough you think a bug tracker is "managing the process of fixing bugs", and you wouldn't be entirely wrong if you said "we can do 90% of this with a mailing list", or even "we could hook something up to github and update and close most bugs automatically" but that isn't what a bug tracker is for maybe you've read an agile book, and maybe you think "bug tracking is about internal CRM", and you wouldn't be entirely wrong. sure enough there's a lot of use in letting other teams know when a feature will be ready, when a bug fix ships, and going through the overhead of jira usually pays off. it's why "just use a mailing list" never ends up working in practice. but that isn't what a bug tracker is for bug trackers are for managers, not engineers. they aren't there to make it easy for people to talk within a team, or for one team to talk to another, they're there to make it easy for managers to open up a big page of "work that is being done" and then yell at people to work harder. that's why you get burndown charts, that's why you get kanban, thats why you have a bajillion topics and fields. like jwz's old rant "groupware bad", engineers aren't the ones buying jira and engineers aren't the ones jira develops features for
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Feb 28, 2023 22:27
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that doesnt mean that they couldnt expend the effort for eng to like them more than cockroaches and herpes maybe if they expended some effort they could get to congress level popularity
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Feb 28, 2023 22:29
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bob dobbs is dead posted:that doesnt mean that they couldnt expend the effort for eng to like them more than cockroaches and herpes alas, engineers don't make purchasing decisions, nor are they stakeholders in those decisions
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Feb 28, 2023 22:34
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they totally are in some places you know what? those places dont buy jira. mysterious
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Feb 28, 2023 22:36
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bob dobbs is dead posted:they totally are in some places my experience of this is when you have founders who like to pretend to be engineers, and they don't buy jira because it costs money
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Feb 28, 2023 22:39
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i almost took a 30k pay cut to work at a place without jira. there were other reasons too but that was the main one they IPOed at like 350/share so i probably should have. one of my bigger work regrets
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Feb 28, 2023 22:53
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i use jira as a write-only thing that i update once a week. i'm not sure who if anyone actually reads any of the information written in jira because our actual status updates where we let each other know what we've been working on and are going to work on are all done on slack.
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Mar 1, 2023 00:17
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if pms don't have enough enrichment items in their pen they get ornery and start sending panicked messages to the people who are doing the work
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Mar 1, 2023 01:04
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and jira trying to do every conceivable thing is the most distracting enrichment toy of all time
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Mar 1, 2023 01:06
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i for real don't really even understand how jira could even BE bad you go there, there's a list of things to do. you either assign one to yourself or already have it assigned, you drag it to in progress, you do thing, you drag it to in review, you drag it to in-ua or whatever, when it gets deployed it gets moved to "deployed" what are people doing that fucks that up? someone mentioned not being able to drag to a column and that's pretty bad. but it's definitely not something that happens without somebody working to screw ir up like it can be slow, ok (though it's always been fine for me when not self-hosted), the query language is annoying, whatever. but none of that is really stuff that matters really.
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Mar 1, 2023 01:48
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do you mean the jira scrum board or the jira kanban board, because of course there's more than two people gently caress it up because you ask someone to configure a tool they'll configure it for their workflow and problems tef fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Mar 1, 2023 |
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Mar 1, 2023 02:09
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i feel this paragraph from the jira website may prove enlightening "Jira administrators often set up the board’s columns to match steps in the workflow. For teams with simple workflows, statuses available to issues in each column also mirror to the step in the workflow." or perhaps "A swimlane is a horizontal categorization of issues in active sprints of a scrum board or on a kanban board. You can use swimlanes to help you better organize tasks of different categories, such as workstreams, users, application areas, and more."
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Mar 1, 2023 02:13
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Achmed Jones posted:i for real don't really even understand how jira could even BE bad it sucks to use op
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Mar 1, 2023 02:14
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jira is incredibly slow, has an incredibly inconsistent ui that makes it difficult to use, and a gazillion different fields where maybe 10% are used by your particular niche of your org. also someone has almost certainly set up a bunch of idiotic ticket workflows with like 5 different ticket types and 15 different steps for each one which makes it a huge pain in the rear end to actually update statuses. it's generally bad software that doesn't do anything well, but most problems people have with jira are just the usual dysfunctional process problems. personally i just avoid putting stuff in jira, because if stuff i'm working on is not in jira, management won't ask any questions about it. sure it looks like i'm accomplishing less than i actually am, but that's just what it looks like to management, and i'm not here to impress management. like, wow, if i put in a lot of work on boring poo poo i don't care about i could get to call myself staff engineer and get a 10% pay bump. big woop. i could also just switch jobs instead TheFluff fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Mar 1, 2023 |
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Mar 1, 2023 02:17
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idigi, it works on my machine
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Mar 1, 2023 02:21
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My work has 6 kinds of jira tickets, and an incredibly complicated workflow around the performative act of pretending our jira tickets/backlogs have any connection to reality We all spend between 4 and 16 hours per week loving around with Jira tickets. Metrics shuffle between an endless parade of middle managers who only care about number go up. It's a waste of life and soul. Jira is a great example of the principle that metrics cease to be valid once they become targets.
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Mar 1, 2023 02:29
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Poopernickel posted:My work has 6 kinds of jira tickets, and an incredibly complicated workflow around the performative act of pretending our jira tickets/backlogs have any connection to reality
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Mar 1, 2023 02:37
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at the current job i'm not allowed to move a ticket to "pending approval" until i fill out 2 different questionnaires, which require me to select "no" from a drop down menu that defaults to "none" repeatedly (which is never valid to use) and i also have to set a code reviewer which i always put myself into because we do code review on gitlab if we leave a ticket in "open" status for a week there is also a slack bot that spams our slack channel and we have to do some paperwork about it
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Mar 1, 2023 02:38
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if you genuinely can't understand how jira can be bad i would advise you to reconsider your jira experience as extremely exceptional as is demonstrated by whatever net promoter score website people are referencing in which genital herpes is considered preferable to using this piece of poo poo software, where again, you can't assign 2 people to a ticket
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Mar 1, 2023 02:40
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you want to assign two people to a ticket?
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Mar 1, 2023 02:45
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yeah that's what a QA assignee and a "QA required" flag that makes it impossible to move a ticket to done until the QA assignee signs off on it is for
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Mar 1, 2023 02:47
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i've been at a company that had a functional jira process but it was very slimmed down compared to most workflows i've seen and involved a lot less people. basically all of the weekly work started from the board; if you don't have anything to do you pick a ticket from the top of the "stuff we want to do this week" column and drag it to in progress. when it's ready for code review you let people know at standup (and/or ping on slack) and whoever reviews self-assigns and drags it to code review. then same thing for testing, then it gets merged and is done. four steps, three ticket types (feature, bug, task), that's it. no story pointing, just try to break tickets down enough that each individual task is doable within no more than ~2 days of work. it was a process that was very good at letting the cto hassle people about not completing enough tickets (which eventually got me put on a performance improvement plan and i subsequently left voluntarily) but it did get less in the way than most processes i've seen so it's impossible to say if it was bad or not i've rarely regretted writing good tickets (or requirement/planning docs in general) though. it absolutely sucks rear end to do, but clearly spelling out what we're doing (and what we're not doing), how we're doing it and what user need it's fulfilling is good, because writing things down usually clarifies them for yourself too and you'll forget all that poo poo in a week if you don't write it down TheFluff fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Mar 1, 2023 |
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Mar 1, 2023 02:54
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What’s that??? You’re not getting enough done?? Surely the solution is to add some more Jira meetings How are those tickets coming along?? Did you get your tickets done???? Let’s have a planning and alignment meeting about your tickets. That will help put the department back on course. The meeting should have the line manager, all three project managers, the scrum master, the function owner, and also the product owner What do you mean there’s unclear hierarchy and conflicting goals?? 7 managers should be plenty for 4 ICs. Also are your tickets done yet?? Poopernickel fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Mar 1, 2023 |
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Mar 1, 2023 02:58
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I’ve been writing tickets on our jira for several years now and I still can’t figure out why they have a 30% chance to disappear into the void after they are written
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Mar 1, 2023 03:02
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It’s because you forgot to assign the right label There are 610274283 labels that are all different by one or two characters. JIRA can’t search them because there’s too many. GL buddy.
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Mar 1, 2023 03:05
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ok like it's dumb you can't assign two people, but it just sounds to me like people aren't able to stop blaming the software used to encode their lovely processes instead of the processes themselves and the people who implement them. i could see an argument to the effect of "it shouldn't let you do dumb stuff" but im not sure i buy that in this instance it's like blaming the hammer when you repeatedly hit yourself in the dick with it.
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Mar 1, 2023 03:06
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neosloth posted:I’ve been writing tickets on our jira for several years now and I still can’t figure out why they have a 30% chance to disappear into the void after they are written ok that's really bad, THAT is the kind of thing i was asking about
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Mar 1, 2023 03:07
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Achmed Jones posted:ok like it's dumb you can't assign two people, but it just sounds to me like people aren't able to stop blaming the software used to encode their lovely processes instead of the processes themselves and the people who implement them. i could see an argument to the effect of "it shouldn't let you do dumb stuff" but im not sure i buy that in this instance Bloody posted:dogshit processes are tools-agnostic
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Mar 1, 2023 03:07
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Achmed Jones posted:ok that's really bad, THAT is the kind of thing i was asking about im sure in a poorly deployed on-prem setup it is pretty easy to do this by loving up your database. or by installing some dogshit plugin
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Mar 1, 2023 03:08
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Achmed Jones posted:it's like blaming the hammer when you repeatedly hit yourself in the dick with it. you: no one is beating my dick with the dick beating hammer the rest of us: oof oof oof oof
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Mar 1, 2023 03:08
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Poopernickel posted:Jira is a great example of the principle that metrics cease to be valid once they become targets. No, it isn't. It is software. Jira does not implement hosed up organizational practices that incentivize stupid metrics-chasing. I know you can't really think it's the software's fault. Well, I hope
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Mar 1, 2023 03:09
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