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Cojawfee posted:No Man's Sky was able to come back from an abysmal launch. If they make good on this game, they can come back. Is the KSP2 team in the same position as Hello Games? Or are they a subsidiary of Take Two, subject to the ever changing whims of C?Os who want to always be seen as enhancing shareholder value?
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Mar 4, 2023 05:09
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Popete posted:I feel like this first patch is gonna be crucial for them. If they can fix a bunch of the more egregious bugs and get the game running at a semi-decent frame rate consistently that'll instill a lot of confidence in people sitting on the fence.  All a KSP sequel needed was a better physics model. They clearly do not have the expertise to make one. Game's done, and I'm very sad about it but that's it.
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Mar 4, 2023 05:43
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I also might... dispute that NMS has improved since its launch, it has expanded certainly but I would not describe any of the expansion as an improvement.
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Mar 4, 2023 05:48
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pun pundit posted:Is the KSP2 team in the same position as Hello Games? Or are they a subsidiary of Take Two, subject to the ever changing whims of C?Os who want to always be seen as enhancing shareholder value? 100% a subsidiary, and this is a good reason not to be too confident in long-rear end roadmaps when some rear end in a top hat can always write off the KSP purchase as the previous rear end in a top hat's decision. cool av posted:All a KSP sequel needed was a better physics model. They clearly do not have the expertise to make one. Game's done, and I'm very sad about it but that's it. lol
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Mar 4, 2023 05:56
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Cojawfee posted:No Man's Sky was able to come back from an abysmal launch. If they make good on this game, they can come back. No Man's Sky and Final Fantasy 14 were both unique back from the brink stories. Others have started to address NMS, but for the latter, there was significant buy-in from the publisher who thought that "a numbered Final Fantasy being seen as a failure would irreparably damage the brand." I doubt TakeTwo has the same perspective about KSP.
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Mar 4, 2023 09:29
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Also NMS is still kind of a hollow and empty game. Fun for a while but the world just seems a bit dead.
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Mar 4, 2023 16:05
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Yeah I feel like NMS was more "it turns out there are some people who like what it actually ended up being and they have switched to trading on that group of people" rather than that they fixed it by making it what a lot of people initially thought it would be. Also KSP2 specifically needs to be an improvement on KSP1 and has a promised feature set, the only thing I can think of in NMS that was promised but added later was some degree of multiplayer functionality. Everything else just seems to be a profusion of endless shallow features piled on top of a game without anything resembling a compelling gameplay loop. I suppose the KSP analogy would be adding endless numbers of planets without addressing the fundamental mechanics of getting to them or why you would want to.
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Mar 4, 2023 18:39
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NMS also came out perfectly fine if you wanted a tree punching survival game. Much of the updates helped select for people who wanted tree punching survival games with a wide scope of things to do for no reason but to do them and shook loose any last holdouts of space life sim folks to Star Citizen. FF14 is much closer to the situation here where the base layer of stuff just seems varyingly wrong or quixotically implemented.
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Mar 4, 2023 18:49
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zedprime posted:NMS also came out perfectly fine if you wanted a tree punching survival game. Much of the updates helped select for people who wanted tree punching survival games with a wide scope of things to do for no reason but to do them and shook loose any last holdouts of space life sim folks to Star Citizen. i still stand astonished that the ARR devs managed what they did in light of poo poo like that
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Mar 4, 2023 18:54
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no man's sky sucked rear end on launch and if you told me it'd become one of my comfort games i'd have not believed you. but it has. it's one of my favorite games to play if i am really stressed and want to turn my brain off. it's not a masterpiece or anything but i am very happy with where it is and what it's trying to be. that said it's not a comparable situation. as already mentioned, nms is an indie game made by an overenthusiastic indie dev, not a game published by a triple a publisher. the expectations and need to meet shareholder demands are a lot higher for ksp2. but also, no man's sky was an issue of gameplay design. ksp2 is an issue of performance and bugs. i have to imagine that to a point it's easier to fix bad performance and bugs than it is to fix a gameplay loop, but only to a point, and where ksp2 is right now seems to be well beyond that point. if this first patch is like, a major significant step to rectify that, great! and i really do hope that it is, because from a gameplay design perspective, everything that they have shown is extremely awesome. i hope someday we get a behind the scenes look at what the gently caress has happened with this game and its multiple development studios and why poo poo fell apart a few years ago.
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Mar 4, 2023 21:05
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In theory, there's no reason that the KSP2 devs couldn't fix all these performance issues and bugs and have a great game in a year or two. Game's not necessarily doomed, and a turnaround should be a lot easier than something like FF14 1.0 or NMS where the issues were in the core gameplay design. But the fact that they shipped something with this many obvious problems as people's very first look at the game suggests behind-the-scenes management problems, and those don't necessarily clear up so easily. I'm not writing it off as not worth watching, but I'm going to wait until it's actually good (or at least playable) before forking over any money for it.
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Mar 4, 2023 21:25
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:i hope someday we get a behind the scenes look at what the gently caress has happened with this game and its multiple development studios and why poo poo fell apart a few years ago. Unlikely that we'll ever know what really went down with the original studio, since that's some business / legal fuckery. Vizuyos posted:I'm not writing it off as not worth watching, but I'm going to wait until it's actually good (or at least playable) before forking over any money for it. Yeah I'm not nearly as pessimistic as others itt, but I ain't bought it either. The hosed up launch could have a number of reasons, it's too early to tell how deep the problems are. The only thing we know is that someone at take2 probably knew that the game was on fire and said it's launching anyways.
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Mar 4, 2023 22:52
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I had to take back my   Money is too tight to be essentially crowdfunding a game I can't even get beyond the main menu with. I really hope they keep going and I'll be there again whenever I can afford a new gaming machine. Until then back to trying to achieve a manned Duna mission in KSP1.
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Mar 4, 2023 23:20
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So in KSP2 are RAPIERs just really useless? I made a tiny plane, something like 6.5 tons and it pretty much stalls at the sound barrier near sea level. At 7k altitude it can't get much over 570mps. This is crushingly lower than the previous game so much as to make RAPIERs almost useless. The behavior is really strange as well and doesn't make sense to me. I max out at 337m/s flat at sea level, but can do 320m/s in a 45 degree climb. At 10k I max out at 850m/s when flat. If I change to closed cycle I actually lose speed. I assume it has to be far worse wind resistance.
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Mar 4, 2023 23:31
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NMS taught me a serious lesson about pre-ordering video games. I pop it out every couple years and almost always get to a point where, although there are eight new semi-interesting things to do, the core of what the game is still not the interesting thing that was promised. No matter how many biological freighter ships there are the combat is boring, the alien fauna is extremely samey and procedurally generated in the bad way, and as cool as the idea of learning alien languages word by word is it makes every new playthrough that much more tedious. That being said, it would probably be hailed as the lord of all indie survival games if it hadn't been marketed as a AAA PS# lauch title. KSP2 was marketed as "We're making another KSP" and I don't think it has failed substantially to deliver on that premise.
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Mar 5, 2023 17:06
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OwlFancier posted:Yeah I feel like NMS was more "it turns out there are some people who like what it actually ended up being and they have switched to trading on that group of people" rather than that they fixed it by making it what a lot of people initially thought it would be. What... what did you think NMS was going to be?
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Mar 5, 2023 17:48
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I usually get bored with NMS when I need a certain material and, to get it, I have to jump like three star systems away. Didn't help that I got back into it right when they had two separate main quests in the game and it was confusing which one I was supposed to do and which one they were removing the features of.
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Mar 5, 2023 20:11
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aaa cant decide between a RP-1 Playthrough for maximum challenge/grindiness or a beyond home, billions of parts crazy playthrough, both seem appealing!
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Mar 6, 2023 03:32
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:What... what did you think NMS was going to be? I mean I didn't pay any real attention to it before it launched but I think a lot of people seemed to think it was going to be... a game, I guess? I bought it on heavy discount or something and it's not really a game, I would probably categorize it with those weird tech demos that render fractals or something. Or like a mobile-level game they keep bolting more mobile-level games onto. I vaguely recall a lot of people seemed very hyped that it was going to be some kind of everything simulator (like what I think people seem to imagine star citizen is supposed to be?) and then seemed very unhappy that it's basically just a thing that generates the same half dozen planets in different colours and kitbashed space ships and you can make number go up to buy new kitbashed space ships and fly to different coloured planets in your space ship. There's no real... game there. I would describe it as an idle game except it's like an idle game if you couldn't actually do the idling part and had to manually click to make the number go up. It's kind of impossible to categorize and I don't really know why they keep updating it. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Mar 6, 2023 |
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Mar 6, 2023 03:36
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I just refunded this at 117 minutes (cutting it close), this game runs like microwaved rear end and yeah yeah early access and all but for $50 I certainly expected better than a barebones proof-of-concept. The wobble is just completely unplayable. My rockets bend like a pool noodle and it destroys any attempt at guidance
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Mar 6, 2023 03:50
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Many people seem to be successful refunding long after the 2 hour instant-refund limit.
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Mar 6, 2023 04:06
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queeb posted:aaa cant decide between a RP-1 Playthrough for maximum challenge/grindiness or a beyond home, billions of parts crazy playthrough, both seem appealing! If your idea of a fun time is billions of parts craziness, by all means pair that with Beyond Home. You will not regret it. Combine that with Parallax, Restock Plus and parts mods and you're in for quite a trip. Learn how to edit mod parts' ini files and make it your own. I love KSP2's volumetric smoke but beyond that, at the risk of repeating myself a well-modded KSP1 will remain the ultimate and only KSP experience for years to come.
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Mar 6, 2023 04:18
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uPen posted:Many people seem to be successful refunding long after the 2 hour instant-refund limit. The 2 hour/2 week thing is only for automated refunds. If you have less than two hours of play time and less than two weeks since you bought it, steam just automatically refunds. Anything over that requires approval. You can likely make a persuasive argument that KSP2 isn't what you expected as long as you don't already have 300 hours in it.
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Mar 6, 2023 05:19
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My lowly 1060 won't run KSP2, but happily runs 1 with Beyond Home and loads of mods. Looks pretty good, runs well. Beyond Home isn't up to date on CKAN so needs to be installed manually. I also had to download the 1.whatever gigs of Parallax stock textures in CKAN, and then turn it off to get Beyond Home working. Waterfall flat out stopped it loading, but everything else seems to be there. ReStock+ is very nice too. I tried the near future stuff, but the models didnt show up in the tech tree, so not sure what's going on there. I'd like a cheaty hyperdrive thing to finish off with (it is the future after all), any reccomendations?
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Mar 6, 2023 09:39
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OwlFancier posted:
But enough about KSP
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Mar 6, 2023 10:47
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i wonder what the refund rate on ksp2 is. it has to be high
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Mar 6, 2023 13:19
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marumaru posted:i wonder what the refund rate on ksp2 is. it has to be high Gotta be. I was fairly sanguine about just buying it and letting it be a bad debt if i didnt have fun, but it was basically insulting how bad it was. I was going to sit on it if i felt there was even a 10% chance of it getting its act together, just to show how much i care about the ip, but nah I honestly don’t feel this one is gonna pull out of the dive. Makes me super sad.
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Mar 6, 2023 23:59
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Rug!
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Mar 7, 2023 02:11
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Pull!
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Mar 7, 2023 02:53
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SpaceCadetBob posted:Gotta be. I was fairly sanguine about just buying it and letting it be a bad debt if i didnt have fun, but it was basically insulting how bad it was. real goddamn shame (edit) yay they gave it to me 
Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Mar 7, 2023 |
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Mar 7, 2023 03:22
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Having a 50% steam review rating is already devastating for a game.
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Mar 7, 2023 03:53
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Ciaphas posted:yeah idk what the 'standards' of an early access launch should be, but this is way, way below them. hoping i can get a refund at 4 hours I touch a lot of early access stoves and this is definitely on the worse end of the spectrum. The only jankier game Ive played recently was Darktide, and that got similar review treatments
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Mar 7, 2023 11:51
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Ciaphas posted:yeah idk what the 'standards' of an early access launch should be, but this is way, way below them. hoping i can get a refund at 4 hours There are no standards of early access launches. I own a number of them and it's all over the spectrum. I basically expect nothing. Several of them have shaped up into good games over time. Some of them take forever, literally years with incremental improvements and some of them are largely playable right off the bat. Some seem to die on the vine. I just generally expect that my money is gone forever if I invest in early access, just like gambling. I'll be pleasantly surprised if it turns into a good game over time when I take that risk. I am never disappointed by early access because I always, always have the expectation for them to be absolute poo poo. That said, no game from a major publisher should be early access like this. It's not a scrappy startup by one person without a publisher. This is screaming incompetence on the part of the publisher, developer and the collective management of both. The fact that it's in early access it all in this way seems like a colossal fuckup. Someone blazing moron in management or finance is very likely going to look a the refunds and lack of sales and decide the game isn't worth it, not taking into account that the reason is because they hosed it up and not accounting for the fact that people really do want this game. That moron is also very likely to not understand how much damage they did making the game available in its current state, since now it has to dig out of a PR hole because again, they are a major developer and not a plucky startup where these things are easy to forgive. Also, the fact that it's 50 bucks and not 10 or 15 for a game in this state is going to absolutely gently caress them and stands as a testament to moronic decision making.
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Mar 7, 2023 19:21
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https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1633163594639503385?s=20Jason Schreier (@jasonschreier) posted:Video game publisher Take-Two is laying people off today in its Private Division label and other divisions, sources tell Bloomberg. Spokesman Alan Lewis says the cuts "will better align our organization with our long-term priorities" and that the impact on dev teams is "minimal." I'm sure fewer people working on KSP2 will help fix things.
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Mar 7, 2023 20:26
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holy gently caress
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Mar 7, 2023 20:33
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marumaru posted:holy gently caress Hey look, it says the impact on the dev teams will be "minimal", there's no way they'd lie about that! It'll be fine!
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Mar 7, 2023 20:35
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Like I said, there is a level of low purchases + low review scores that will make a publisher absolutely gut a studio in record time. KSP2 isn't even in the Steam top 45, and we're still in the high refund period where low sales can actually make the purchase:refund ratio go negative and make the game cost the publisher money to sell.
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Mar 7, 2023 20:36
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Nationalize KSP.
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Mar 7, 2023 20:36
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Private Division is just another layer of publisher so cuts in its workforce don't necessarily directly equate to cuts at Intercept who are the KSP2 devs.
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Mar 7, 2023 20:37
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goddamn, that explains why they shoved it out the door in its current state 
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Mar 7, 2023 20:39
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