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mewse posted:Publication order would be my advice for anyone planning to read all the books but.. it makes sense to me to recommend Emperor’s Soul to someone who doesn’t necessarily like fantasy but would like to see what Sanderson is about I'm definitely starting with publication order but it looks like the Stormlight books get really spread out that way, so would it make sense to save them all for after Mistborn era 2 and Warbreaker? I have literally never seen any two suggested reading orders be the same, but grouping the larger series together seems to be a common theme among the non-publication order suggestions. Either way I've been suitably warned that it gets better after Elantris and so I wanted to get the "worst" one out of the way so I don't have to go back to it later. I know games aren't books but I loved the first Witcher game when it came out but absolutely cannot force myself to play it again after having played 2 and 3. pik_d fucked around with this message at 04:01 on May 2, 2023 |
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May 2, 2023 03:58
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pik_d posted:I'm definitely starting with publication order but it looks like the Stormlight books get really spread out that way, so would it make sense to save them all for after Mistborn era 2 and Warbreaker? I have literally never seen any two suggested reading orders be the same, but grouping the larger series together seems to be a common theme among the non-publication order suggestions. Do elantris, mistborn era 1, warbreaker, start stormlight, when you get to the first novella read the first 2 mistborn era 2, then do the rest of released stormlight, then the 2nd half of mistborn era 2. That is how I did it. There is also a collection of short stories from other cosmere worlds that haven't and may not play parts in what is to come.
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May 2, 2023 04:05
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Louisgod posted:It’s tough because if you read Tress first you’ll miss so many cosmere lore references, including Hoid’s overall origin, which I suppose could have the reverse effect where if you were to read anything after Tress, you could tie it back to Tress. I’m usually torn between recommending Mistborn or Warbreaker as a first Sanderson book. Yeah, I'd almost certainly say Mistborn, but I certainly wouldn't be upset if I heard someone pitch Tress. Introducing Hoid early and the general idea that the Cosmere can have characters or abilities show up elsewhere might make the earlier books a bit more interesting. I can imagine the whole Marsh hemalurgy thing being a pretty cool "oh, poo poo" moment if you hear about death having nails in his eyes in Tress. I prettymuch went by the Cosmere Reading List order (careful for spoilers, there's a checkbox to suppress them). I did my Cosmere read before Rhythm of War came out, but it was close enough. I also found it helpful for a bunch of the links and cameos that I inevitably missed. Echophonic fucked around with this message at 06:09 on May 2, 2023 |
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May 2, 2023 06:06
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pik_d posted:I'm definitely starting with publication order but it looks like the Stormlight books get really spread out that way, so would it make sense to save them all for after Mistborn era 2 and Warbreaker? I have literally never seen any two suggested reading orders be the same, but grouping the larger series together seems to be a common theme among the non-publication order suggestions. Publication order is still good because things happen between books in other books that tie into each other. Nothing too over the top but it’s there. Also it’s nice to have a break between characters I think. These days I just think of cosmere as the story and there are different elements to it.
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May 2, 2023 07:27
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pik_d posted:I'm definitely starting with publication order but it looks like the Stormlight books get really spread out that way, so would it make sense to save them all for after Mistborn era 2 and Warbreaker? I have literally never seen any two suggested reading orders be the same, but grouping the larger series together seems to be a common theme among the non-publication order suggestions. Publication order is honestly a good idea if you can get over the Elantris bump. This is because of the way Brandon's books are organized. There are basically 2 kinds of Sanderson books. There are the YA books that are set on Earth. They are there own thing, and I think there are even several unconnected YA science/fantasy series set on Earth? The other kinds of books are his "main" works, the Cosmere books. The Cosmere is a shared setting of several worlds that have different magic systems between them. Each series (Mistborn, Stormlight Archive, Elantris +Emperor's Soul) and one offs (Warbreaker, Silence for Shadow in the Forests of Hell, White Sand, Sixth of the Dusk) is set on a specific world. Travel between worlds is possible through various magical means. Although such traveling, or "world hopping" is extremely rare. There are no stable trade link between different worlds. But there do exist some "world hoppers" as the fandom calls them, and so some characters appear in more than one series. Stormlight Archive is intended to be the big crossover series, and thus has the highest number of characters a reader would recognize from other works. In fact, to truly understand some of the more obscure stuff in SA, reading Warbreaker and Mistborn is required. And I'd really suggest reading Warbreaker before Stormlight 2. You can totally understand the story of each setting without having read the rest, but you will miss/not understand some small (and especially in the case of SA, some not so small) details. But Sanderson basically wrote each book while keeping in mind every other book he wrote, regardless of which setting it belongs to. So the last book of Mistborn Era 2 has a major, truly huge Stormlight Archive spoiler. You definitely should not read The Lost Metal before Rhythm of War. In general, it doesn't matter so much in which order you read the one-offs (although again, you should read Warbreaker before Stormlight 2). But since Stormlight Archive and Mistborn Era 2 are so concurrent in-universe, your experience will be better if you read those in publication order. If you enjoy rereading books, then it's not as important to go with a specific reading order, apart from reading The Lost Metal before Rhythm of War. And don't read Secret History before Bands of Mourning (Mistborn Era 2, book 3). If you don't like rereading stuff, then it makes more sense to take care in which order you read the books. Edit: Also a warning: It's extremely easy to get spoiled for a specific plot twist in the first Mistborn book. Don't google Mistborn, don't read book descriptions ("back text") of the later Mistborn books, don't look up individual characters. The Final Empire is imho the best trilogy setup book I've ever read. Because it's a fantastic standalone book on it's own, not leaving you asking "what happens next", but it also sets up the whole trilogy just perfectly. It's one of his best books, period, and it would be a shame to catch an accidental spoiler. Torrannor fucked around with this message at 12:27 on May 2, 2023 |
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May 2, 2023 12:23
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Sanderson is kind of like Pratchett, in that each book is good on it's own but you'll get more out of it if you've read all the preceding ones in publication order. They also have an initial publication or two that's just nowhere near as good as the ones after it, and can be skipped until you've read some of the later stuff to see what he really writes like.
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May 2, 2023 17:00
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And for the most recent books, the coppermind wiki has a 'time machine' feature that lets you browse it at checkpoints set the day before each book's release, so you can look up info without spoilers from that book.
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May 2, 2023 17:12
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Echophonic posted:Yeah, I'd almost certainly say Mistborn, but I certainly wouldn't be upset if I heard someone pitch Tress. Introducing Hoid early and the general idea that the Cosmere can have characters or abilities show up elsewhere might make the earlier books a bit more interesting. I can imagine the whole Marsh hemalurgy thing being a pretty cool "oh, poo poo" moment if you hear about death having nails in his eyes in Tress. Anyone who starts on Tress first and moves to Mistborn is going to have a very major part of Mistborn spoiled for them. Namely Sazed is mentioned by name in Tress and in a way that makes him come across as A Big Deal so anyone who reads that before Mistborn is going to immediately know something's up with them. I'm still 99% certain that the book's (Tress) choice of name is to hide that Harmony doesn't exist by the time Tress happens while Sazed still does, but not as Harmony. This could mean a few things, including that Harmony might absorb Autonomy at some point since "Sazed" freed the Kandra and we see one with red eyes. Autonomy would also likely be something that allows Harmony to operate more freely rather than being paralyzed by their opposing forces.
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May 2, 2023 20:10
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Evil Fluffy posted:I'm still 99% certain that the book's (Tress) choice of name is to hide that Harmony doesn't exist by the time Tress happens while Sazed still does, but not as Harmony. This could mean a few things, including that Harmony might absorb Autonomy at some point since "Sazed" freed the Kandra and we see one with red eyes. Autonomy would also likely be something that allows Harmony to operate more freely rather than being paralyzed by their opposing forces. What would we call that being? Harmony + Autonomy...the ability to operate independently and to your own aims, while still meshing both within yourself and with the things and people around you...Munificence? Equilibrium? He does like to pick slightly flowery words for the Shards. Maturity? Efficiency? Self-actualization? Aerodynamics? None of these are quite flowing. Maybe Independent Contracting?
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May 3, 2023 06:00
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Well in English's best tradition as a language when you don't have a word that fits what you need, you just steal it from an already existing source. The answer to what Preservation+ Ruin + Autonomy is, is clearly Sazed
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May 3, 2023 10:25
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CK07 posted:What would we call that being? Harmony + Autonomy...the ability to operate independently and to your own aims, while still meshing both within yourself and with the things and people around you...Munificence? Equilibrium? He does like to pick slightly flowery words for the Shards. 1099
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May 3, 2023 13:48
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Evil Fluffy posted:Anyone who starts on Tress first and moves to Mistborn is going to have a very major part of Mistborn spoiled for them. Namely Sazed is mentioned by name in Tress and in a way that makes him come across as A Big Deal so anyone who reads that before Mistborn is going to immediately know something's up with them. Fair enough, yeah. I forgot he's mentioned so explicitly. I'm not sure it passes my bar of "unacceptable spoiler," but I'm a bit more lax with simple "a thing happened" sorts of spoilers. I want to know how things got to that point now. Hoid also does have a tendency to refer to Vessels by their names, so I'm not sure one way or the other.
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May 3, 2023 16:42
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Echophonic posted:Fair enough, yeah. I forgot he's mentioned so explicitly. I'm not sure it passes my bar of "unacceptable spoiler," but I'm a bit more lax with simple "a thing happened" sorts of spoilers. I want to know how things got to that point now. This is basically my thinking in the matter. Further, the offending line really only hits if you already know the Cosmere lore in question. Otherwise it’s just one of a large number of world-building details thrown into Tress, that you might not even remember by the time it comes up again in the Mistborn series. (There was a lot of chat in Tress about Luhel bonds and Nahel bonds, and I’ll be damned if I understood any of it. I fancy myself a careful reader, so if that went sailing over my head I could see the one-off mention of Sazed and his actions post Hero of Ages also failing to land in people’s long-term memory.) I’m putting my fictitious money where my online mouth is, though, and having my daughter read Tress rather than Mistborn or Warbreaker as her Cosmere introduction. If Tress hooks her, I’ll suggest Mistborn, and then I will ask at the end if reading Tress first took anything away. So check back on this thread in a few months for a report.
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May 3, 2023 21:22
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I think it's pretty carefully phrased since the last few chapters of HoA have Sazed freeing the kandra from the Second Generation's coup, so anyone reading tress first would think it was that.
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May 3, 2023 21:50
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Mordiceius posted:If you can make it through Elantris, then it's all uphill from there. Serene's chapters are the loving pits. I'm up to Elantris chapter 15 now. Sarene loving owns so far. Her whole MO is to gently caress with people who deserve to get hosed with (everyone in this story). I basically want her and Raoden to team up soon and kick rear end on both sides of the Elantris city walls.
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May 4, 2023 20:00
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I really admire what Brandon was trying to do with Elantris, but I feel like he was punching a bit above his ability with that novel. I think 2023 Brandon would write an Elantris that is way better. The format is good in theory but runs into the problem that occasionally you wrap around to a character that's not really doing much at the moment and their chapter is incredibly brief (Hrathen) and then you have to launch into another extra long Sarene chapter. Elantris as a city loving owns. It basically gave me Dark Souls vibes. But I feel like the characters are just kinda flat for me (Hrathen aside). Also, I feel like the book leans too much on Fantasy Proper Nouns. General Elantris spoilers (no clicky pik_d) Raoden doesn't really have a character arc. His challenges are fully external. He doesn't have any needed growth. He never really suffers doubt and while he ends the book at a different point power-wise, his personality at the end is essentially the exact same as he is at the beginning. Sarene doesn't really accomplish anything. Yet her chapters take up almost the same amount of space as Raoden and Hrathen combined. There are also characters that just completely disappear from the story and could have been excised entirely. Hrathen just needed more time!!! He's the best character! He's great!!! I wanted more of him!!!
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May 4, 2023 20:22
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Light Elantris spoilers. Yeah I have noticed a few sets where Raoden and Sarene have 20-25 page chapters then Hrathen gets 7-8 pages. I do like the rotating pov idea in general but some things have to be shoehorned a little to make it work. Coming from WoT it's nice to know I won't run into a 5 chapter run of a boring character before getting back to someone more interesting. It's rough in spots for sure, but I like that each of the three seems like they could be the main character, though on balance Raoden edges it. I will come back for those spoilers in your post.
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May 4, 2023 20:36
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All I remember about Raoden is that everyone who meets Raoden cannot shut up about how cool and good Raoden is, like they could be talking about clam chowder and completely unprompted they would go by the way did you know that Raoden is such a good guy, he's so kind and wise and selfless, anyway I like to crisp up the bacon bits to sprinkle on top as garnish
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May 4, 2023 21:52
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I don't really understand why folks are so hard on Elantris knowing it was Sanderson's first book, and one he acknowledges had faults due to.. being his first book. I try to be mindful of that before I trash it.
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May 4, 2023 22:02
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Louisgod posted:I don't really understand why folks are so hard on Elantris knowing it was Sanderson's first book, and one he acknowledges had faults due to.. being his first book. I try to be mindful of that before I trash it. For me, I read if after starting Stormlight so even knowing it was his first book, it was a pretty rough change in quality.
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May 4, 2023 22:33
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Louisgod posted:I don't really understand why folks are so hard on Elantris knowing it was Sanderson's first book, and one he acknowledges had faults due to.. being his first book. I try to be mindful of that before I trash it. While I totally understand where you're coming from, the outside context does not matter. The book is good or it isn't. And in Elantris' case, it isn't. If I knew nothing about Brandon Sanderson and grabbed Elantris from the bookstore, I would have probably stopped part way through and never picked it up again. The only reason I put up with Elantris is because Mistborn won me over so hard. Of all of his books, I would love Brandon to give this book a new revision and rewrite.
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May 4, 2023 23:08
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Arrath posted:For me, I read if after starting Stormlight so even knowing it was his first book, it was a pretty rough change in quality. Mordiceius posted:While I totally understand where you're coming from, the outside context does not matter. The book is good or it isn't. And in Elantris' case, it isn't. Yeah neither of you are wrong, and I read it after reading era 1, Warbreaker and Emperor’s Soul, and knowing it was his first book and not as fleshed out as his others. But, it should also be noted there was pretty universal praise of it when it first came out, regardless of how well it stands now. I feel there are enough people proselytizing Sanderson that his other, better works tend to be chosen first over Elantris.
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May 5, 2023 00:03
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Absolutely. And I know a couple people who hold Elantris as their favorite book. I will never understand these people, but they exist.
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May 5, 2023 00:06
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He did update elantris on its 10th anniversary
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May 5, 2023 01:00
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Mordiceius posted:Absolutely. And I know a couple people who hold Elantris as their favorite book. I will never understand these people, but they exist.  We have failed as a species.
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May 5, 2023 06:13
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I won't poo poo up the thread after this, but to me the challenge with books like these is that (going by Amazon) there are eleven of them at about 700 pages each. That's like five Wars and Peace. This is such a big ask of the reader's time; just the other day I read M David Harrison's book The Pastel City, which is a sci-fi fantasy about a war between two countries using salvaged technology from prior civilizations. In the story the lead comes out of retirement, reunites him with his old companions, joins the war at a critical battle which the good guys lose, watches as the villains' technology turns on them, then learns the secret of that technology and journeys to put an end to the threat once and for all. It's 176 pages long.
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May 7, 2023 03:50
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a new hit piece is out
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May 7, 2023 04:33
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porfiria posted:I won't poo poo up the thread after this, but to me the challenge with books like these is that (going by Amazon) there are eleven of them at about 700 pages each. That's like five Wars and Peace. I mean that’s fine. I guess it’s about how you approach your spare time. I don’t like watching a lot of tv and am normally pretty tired after work. I don’t mind taking a few week to read a book either. Even though there are a lot of books and they are long it’s just a relaxing after work activity for me. It took me like 3 years to read wheel of time for example.
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May 7, 2023 09:40
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porfiria posted:I won't poo poo up the thread after this, but to me the challenge with books like these is that (going by Amazon) there are eleven of them at about 700 pages each. That's like five Wars and Peace. Some people prefer to watch a 2 hour movie and some people binge 8 seasons of game of thrones, just depends what kind of content you like. At least it solves the problem of constantly having to pick out something new to read.
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May 8, 2023 17:58
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WOR part 1 I can't wait for Roshar to figure out differential gears.
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May 8, 2023 18:03
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Elantris up to chapter 42. There's definitely been some silly writing decisions, like every time Brandon sticks in something like "And then everything changed." which takes me out of the story a little, but I'm definitely having a lot of fun with the characters. I do feel like he's torturing me by drip feeding Selene clues that "Spirit" is actually her undead husband Raoden without having her piece it together. Hrathen has also been interesting as a logical religious zealot. His crisis of faith took some wavering when he went into Elantris as a false Elantrian, he seems to have bounced back but I'm not convinced he wont have more issues with that. I do feel like Sanderson probably regretted the rotating POVs where each main character took every third chapter, with some of the chapters being 4 pages and some being 25. I'm glad there's going to be two sequels because I love these characters and want to see more of them.
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May 8, 2023 18:12
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Elantris doesn't have two sequels, I think you're thinking of Mistborn
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May 8, 2023 18:30
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mewse posted:Elantris doesn't have two sequels, I think you're thinking of Mistborn Elantris doesn't have two sequels yet https://coppermind.net/wiki/Elantris_sequel
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May 8, 2023 18:32
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pik_d posted:Elantris doesn't have two sequels yet Elantris has a novella but it's more about stuff that happened during the first book so it isn't a sequel The Emperors soul takes place in the same world as Elantris but isn't a sequel. And yes, Sanderson does plan to write a sequel to Elantris, OP was correct in saying that "Elantris doesn't have two sequels"
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May 8, 2023 19:38
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Synesthesian Fetish posted:Elantris has a novella but it's more about stuff that happened during the first book so it isn't a sequel That's cool but this is what I said originally so I don't really think there's an argument here, just a misunderstanding. pik_d posted:I'm glad there's going to be two sequels because I love these characters and want to see more of them.
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May 8, 2023 19:40
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Elantris has two sequels in the Spiritual Realm.
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May 8, 2023 20:10
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Elantris sequel is gonna be weird, it's been a long time and his writing style has changing/improved so much.
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May 8, 2023 21:51
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pik_d posted:Elantris doesn't have two sequels yet Just a warning, the Coppermind is an amazing wiki, and the time machine feature is amazing. But it's relatively new, and there's a limit to how far back it's good. It's very easy to get spoiled browsing the Coppermind. You should probably avoid going to it before finishing Bands of Mourning + Secret History, as well as Words of Radiance. I wouldn't hold my breath for an Elantris sequel anytime soon. He finished Mistborn Era 2 (of 4 planned eras), and will be finishing the first half of Stormlight Archive, after which there will be a break. I fully expect him to go devote some energy to his other worlds, but for various reasons, I'd bet that the Warbreaker sequel will have a high priority.
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May 8, 2023 23:13
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I believe the current plan is for a proper Mistborn trilogy (urban era) after Stormlight 5, then returning to SA 6. I fully expect Warbreaker and Elantris sequels to be the next books on his plate after that, probably as his ‘break’ after SA6 (also, he’s probably sneaking more Kickstarter-related novellas in along the way).
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May 8, 2023 23:26
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He'll probably get bored one weekend and finish up an Elantris trilogy to keep himself busy
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