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Gaz-L posted:On a related note, it always amused me that the real Landsman is on the show, but has a fraction of the charisma of the actor playing him. Not a shock, being an actor isn't easy, but found it funny. I can't remember if The Wire's Jay Landsman was in the same scene, but in one episode the real Jay Lansman is in a bar talking to I think Gus while Richard Belzer is in the same bar playing Munch, who was based on the real Jay Lansman. I think that having three Lansmans in the same scene may have broken the space time continuum or something
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May 9, 2023 11:59
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:I can't remember if The Wire's Jay Landsman was in the same scene, but in one episode the real Jay Lansman is in a bar talking to I think Gus while Richard Belzer is in the same bar playing Munch, who was based on the real Jay Lansman. I think that having three Lansmans in the same scene may have broken the space time continuum or something It’s unfortunately what allowed the serial killer plot line to leak in from a lesser universe.
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May 9, 2023 17:15
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He plays Sgt/Lt. Mello, right? I think he just didn't get a lot of time to shine, like Landsman. He's attached to Bunny for season 3, and in season 4, he's doing admin stuff and yelling at Carver to pawn Randy off to DCS. He's got the bureaucratic role down pat, and that's probably all they wanted for him in the show. Having fun imagining him talking to Rawls about masturbation
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May 9, 2023 23:05
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I assume the casting director decided he was just a good enough actor to be in that many scenes and no more. I appreciated his accent every time he was on screen though
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May 9, 2023 23:07
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Aces High posted:He plays Sgt/Lt. Mello, right? I think he just didn't get a lot of time to shine, like Landsman. He's attached to Bunny for season 3, and in season 4, he's doing admin stuff and yelling at Carver to pawn Randy off to DCS. He's got the bureaucratic role down pat, and that's probably all they wanted for him in the show. That had to be weird watching a character named after him have that conversation lol
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May 9, 2023 23:18
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christmas boots posted:That had to be weird watching a character named after him have that conversation lol As noted, he's the inspiration for both The Wire's version of Landsman and for Munch , at least in Homicide (I think it's arguable that Munch kind of changed a bit once he was paired with Ice T on SVU)
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May 10, 2023 00:24
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Ainsley McTree posted:I assume the casting director decided he was just a good enough actor to be in that many scenes and no more. I appreciated his accent every time he was on screen though I think he has some excellent delivery of dry humor. There’s a lot of it when they’re having problems in season 3. Being a good dry humor straight man is a lot of hard work.
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May 10, 2023 01:07
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Wafflecopper posted:ziggy owns actually It's a shame Ziggy never got a chance to talk to D'Angelo in prison.
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May 10, 2023 07:52
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algebra testes posted:Fuckin Ziggy man Ziggy has daddy issues because capitalism has made it impossible for him to live up to the standard it still sells his father as what he ought to expect for his son. Ziggy is smart enough to know the game is fully rigged against him and he's never going to be able to live up to the unrealistic standard of "success" that is set for him by doing things the "right" way. He is also too powerless to change that and doesn't have the skills to be "succesful" at doing things the "wrong" way. GABA ghoul posted:Nick's problems are mostly due to socio-econonmic factors, but Ziggy's problems are personal/psychological. lol as if one doesn't cause the other. Nick is too ignorant to get how hosed he is, and ignorance is bliss. When we see him a couple seasons later he might be less ignorant though. Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 10:29 on May 10, 2023 |
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May 10, 2023 10:24
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I just finished season 2, and if it wasn't for the kids in season 4, I'd call 2 the most tragic season. First, we lose D'angelo for the crime of wanting to be his own man, which Stringer misreads (a common practice for String) and kills him for it. Then we have all of the dock workers who turn to the Greeks out of desperation, and it leads to everyone's downfall. Nick and Ziggy only get sucked into the drug world because of Frank's connections, I kind of doubt either one ends up where they are if Frank stayed legit the whole time. All three of D, Zig, and Nick are victims of the family business, and it sucks to see all of them get sucked into a world they probably didn't belong in. I still appreciate that the two biggest villains of the whole show are a guy just named The Greek, and a big shot inside the FBI. Two people that no one at the city level even sees. I can't remember if David Simon used Whitey Bulger as inspiration for that whole set up or if it was something else, but it's sad to see how something like that is true to life, not just fiction.
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May 10, 2023 13:36
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Ziggy was smart enough that he didn't need to be a dock worker. He was computer and even internet literate, knew how to work a digital camera and was generally pretty sharp. His judgement was terrible, but that only really caused him problems when he got into the crime. He's the sort that would have found success as a computer toucher sort of thing, or maybe business if he had someone to keep him in check. But because of the culture he grew up in that seemed to never cross his mind, if indeed such opportunities were available at all in Baltimore at that time. You can be good at the docks, or bad at the docks. But there is nothing outside the docks. Count Roland fucked around with this message at 15:15 on May 10, 2023 |
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May 10, 2023 15:03
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He would’ve been a good salesman at Foot Locker with Poot. Ziggy could definitely upsell me on some sneakers.
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May 10, 2023 15:06
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I suspect that Ziggy might have struggled at any career he attempted; in addition to the bigger issues, he also seems to lack impulse control that I imagine would make it difficult to keep down a job, although I guess it's hard to say how much of that was just him acting out because of the broader stuff going on with him. I'm just saying though, I've felt depressed and aimless before but I've never poisoned a duck or pulled my dong out at the bar so many times that i got a reputation for it it's a shame he's not a sopranos character, because I think he would be a great candidate for Little Carmine's School of Failson Rehabilitation
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May 10, 2023 15:54
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Bird in a Blender posted:Nick and Ziggy only get sucked into the drug world because of Frank's connections, I kind of doubt either one ends up where they are if Frank stayed legit the whole time. All three of D, Zig, and Nick are victims of the family business, and it sucks to see all of them get sucked into a world they probably didn't belong in. IIRC Nick mentions that Ziggy has been loving around with packages all last year. Seems like he had already went down that road before he ever met the Greeks.
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May 10, 2023 16:42
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GABA ghoul posted:IIRC Nick mentions that Ziggy has been loving around with packages all last year. Seems like he had already went down that road before he ever met the Greeks. Well Nick (and what's-his-name) go to Cheese to bail out Zig for loving up one of those packages. Was Nick already in the drug trade at that point or was it just the smuggling?
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May 10, 2023 17:56
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Count Roland posted:Ziggy was smart enough that he didn't need to be a dock worker. He was computer and even internet literate, knew how to work a digital camera and was generally pretty sharp. His judgement was terrible, but that only really caused him problems when he got into the crime. I'm not saying it's completely impossible that Ziggy could teach himself Java at the library and solo bootstrap his way into the middle class, but considering the only reason he doesn't get fired from his checking job is because his dad is his boss, I would say you're hanging a lot on his ability to change a desktop background and work a search engine. I would rate him less as "too smart for the docks" and more "lucky to have his dockworker job."
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May 10, 2023 18:09
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Count Roland posted:Well Nick (and what's-his-name) go to Cheese to bail out Zig for loving up one of those packages. Was Nick already in the drug trade at that point or was it just the smuggling? Smuggling only. He gets into the drugs after delivering the chemicals.
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May 10, 2023 18:16
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Randallteal posted:I'm not saying it's completely impossible that Ziggy could teach himself Java at the library and solo bootstrap his way into the middle class, but considering the only reason he doesn't get fired from his checking job is because his dad is his boss, I would say you're hanging a lot on his ability to change a desktop background and work a search engine. I would rate him less as "too smart for the docks" and more "lucky to have his dockworker job." That's rather more extreme than I was getting at. He isn't too smart for the docks. He's literate, and lives in a city filled with people working normal jobs where basic literacy is the main requirement. He could do one of those jobs. He's a bit of a gently caress up but honestly I know people like that, and they get by. And why do you say he'd get fired except for his dad?
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May 10, 2023 18:33
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Sorry for the multi-quote post.Count Roland posted:That's rather more extreme than I was getting at. He isn't too smart for the docks. He's literate, and lives in a city filled with people working normal jobs where basic literacy is the main requirement. He could do one of those jobs. He's a bit of a gently caress up but honestly I know people like that, and they get by. Well Frank "fired" Ziggy early on in Season 2 for losing a can. He just wasn't actually fired, Frank just said it to appease the trucker looking for the can Ziggy couldn't locate. It seemed to be a common problem with Ziggy. Syrian Lannister posted:Smuggling only. He gets into the drugs after delivering the chemicals. Nick probably only gets in to drugs because of Ziggy too. Ziggy was in his ear about how much money they could make selling heroin, while Johnny Fifty (the checker with the beard) told him he didn't want anything to do with dope. GABA ghoul posted:IIRC Nick mentions that Ziggy has been loving around with packages all last year. Seems like he had already went down that road before he ever met the Greeks. That might have been true, I missed that comment. Ziggy definitely starts the season by getting ripped off by one of the white dealers, and had connections with White Mike. So I think you're right that he got into the drug trade independent of Frank. Ziggy's issue always seemed to be looking for approval from everyone on the docks, which was probably why he did so much stupid poo poo. He'd hear of all the crazy stories from the old-timers and wanted to be a legend on his own, except you can't be a legend of the docks by being poo poo at your job and taking your dick out a bunch. I'm not sure what Ziggy could've realistically done because he doesn't listen to anyone, he barely even listens to his dad. Probably a salesman of some kind.
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May 10, 2023 19:31
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I think part of that has to do with the issue Nick struggles with as well, the family legacy. They both have grown up in the shadow of stevedore titans and felt that their life would be just as glorious. I imagine Nick and Ziggy are mid-20s, maybe late, and since this series is in 2004 or so, things probably didn't really start going to poo poo at the docks until just as they were getting be old enough to join the union. Also, while Ziggy is a goof and keeps loving things up when he's on the dock, he's a card-carrying member, so I don't think he was ever in danger of being fired. He's already at the low end for seniority, so they only have to tolerate his bullshit a handful of times a month or less. Could he be less of a gently caress-up at the things he does? Sure, I mean, we see that he is smart, but he doesn't have the charisma that Nick does, kind of like what we see later with Mike and Duke. There are just some people that get poo poo on just for having the audacity to exist
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May 10, 2023 21:04
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Honestly, who actually pays the dock workers, like who is their employer? Is it the Port of Baltimore? I'm used to construction unions where everyone is still an employee of a construction company, but their pension and healthcare is provided through the union. If Frank is the union president, he's not even the guy who would hire or fire anyone.
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May 10, 2023 21:38
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The reason why people poo poo on Ziggy is because he is a colossal gently caress up. This is beyond his the fact that he's a bad dock worker, he really is just a born gently caress up and everyone else gives him poo poo for good reason. Ziggy wants to be cool so he decides he's going to be a drug dealer just like cool guy white drug dealer White Mike. This goes poorly. Ziggy fucks up packages, gets ripped off by the corner kids he hires to sell his dope, and ends up trying to do business with Cheese - a real actual gangster who nearly kills him. Every single person could have told Ziggy this is exactly what would happen, but no, Ziggy had to be the cool kid. After this Ziggy buys a duck using the money he made from ripping off cargo and smuggling. Also a bad plan because he's spending large amounts of cash that he absolutely should not have and if Freeman or Prezbo were looking at his receipts the dock smuggling would have been solved in about five seconds. Ziggy poisons the duck to show off to his friends. Also, Ziggy bought the duck a diamond necklace with the money he made illegally. Somewhere along the way Ziggy used a stolen camera to take a picture of his fence in the selling stolen cameras scheme. Literally, a "Are you taking notes on a criminal conspiracy?" moment. Ziggy repeatedly whips his dick out in public. Like, more than once in a one month span. This is all off the top of my head. I'm going to agree with Ainsley McTree, Ziggy would have had trouble in any walk of life because that's just who he is and is a man who deeply needs therapy or something so he can get a grip on his life and be a better person. edit: there's this train of thought that just jumped into my head that I don't have time to explore, but there's a reason that the stevedoers are being replaced with robots beyond the cost. It's also because this job sucks. Backbreaking labor, being crushed by enormous weights, and all for very little pay commiserate to the risk. Plus, those stories the old guys tell, those are just stories, they have to make those up to feel good about working away years of their life to move cargo. Ironically, Ziggy probably would have been better off with the computerized docks that Frank was raging against because he was computer literate and Frank could leverage his position to get Ziggy in the door (after Ziggy did a few years at a community college diploma mill). Ithle01 fucked around with this message at 00:21 on May 11, 2023 |
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May 10, 2023 23:59
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I think it all stems from his need for approval. If he didn't have a complex about not living up to his dad's idea of what a son and man should be he wouldn't act out in the ways that he does.
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May 11, 2023 00:09
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Bird in a Blender posted:Honestly, who actually pays the dock workers, like who is their employer? Is it the Port of Baltimore? I'm used to construction unions where everyone is still an employee of a construction company, but their pension and healthcare is provided through the union. If Frank is the union president, he's not even the guy who would hire or fire anyone. They are all employees of the port company (which can be privately or publicly owned, dunno which is the case in Baltimore). Frank is the elected treasurer of their union, but he is also a checker at the port and seems to be in some kind of management position there(he helped setting up their current computer system). Since Ziggy is a checker, I assume Frank is his boss and can fire him. Aces High posted:Also, while Ziggy is a goof and keeps loving things up when he's on the dock, he's a card-carrying member, so I don't think he was ever in danger of being fired. He's already at the low end for seniority, so they only have to tolerate his bullshit a handful of times a month or less. I think the checkers are still salaried positions and don't have to beg for hours. We don't see any of them at the union hall and they probably have more than enough to do between ships. Frank seems to be relatively well off. He has a larger house and lives in a nice neighborhood. Financially, he is probably middle-class, even without the smuggling money. Randallteal posted:I'm not saying it's completely impossible that Ziggy could teach himself Java at the library and solo bootstrap his way into the middle class, but considering the only reason he doesn't get fired from his checking job is because his dad is his boss, I would say you're hanging a lot on his ability to change a desktop background and work a search engine. I would rate him less as "too smart for the docks" and more "lucky to have his dockworker job." Seems pretty funny now, but being able to use a computer effectively was kinda valuable in the late 90s and even early 00s. You could land some decent office jobs just by having basic computer skills. I'm trying to imagine Ziggy as an IT support guy and the thought is hilarious.
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May 11, 2023 00:26
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you think that surveillance van ever came back to Baltimore? Wonder how the discussion for replacing it went
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May 11, 2023 00:47
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christmas boots posted:I think it all stems from his need for approval. If he didn't have a complex about not living up to his dad's idea of what a son and man should be he wouldn't act out in the ways that he does. That's what I'm saying.
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May 11, 2023 13:25
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWqW49VhBJ4 David Simon interviewed on the picket line.
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May 12, 2023 16:59
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Aces High posted:you think that surveillance van ever came back to Baltimore? Wonder how the discussion for replacing it went The idea of Valchek going on a Herc-like quest to return Baltimore PD property before his superior finds out and cans him was a missed opportunity. In all fairness, Valchek seemed like he was pretty much untouchable when it came to politics inside the department. Wasn't there a scene where he shouts at Burrell in front of everyone for giving him a unit of bums to tank Sobotka. A question I've always had: in the later seasons there's a big plot point made about how Carcetti can't fire Burrell because the people of Baltimore wouldn't accept a white police commissioner (Rawls or whoever), so he has to groom Daniels. But in series one the commissioner is a white dude. What changed? Was a white commissioner acceptable under a black mayor?
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May 12, 2023 20:24
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Kosmo Gallion posted:
This comes up when Burrell and Carcetti are arguing. The answer : yes it would look pretty bad if the new white mayor fired the black police chief and put a white dude there.
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May 12, 2023 20:30
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Kosmo Gallion posted:The idea of Valchek going on a Herc-like quest to return Baltimore PD property before his superior finds out and cans him was a missed opportunity. Valchek threatens Burrell before his confirmation hearing at the hall.
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May 12, 2023 22:25
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Kosmo Gallion posted:The idea of Valchek going on a Herc-like quest to return Baltimore PD property before his superior finds out and cans him was a missed opportunity. At the end of S05 Valchek becomes commissioner himself.
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May 13, 2023 00:40
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Yeah it's all about timing. Royce was Mayor for ages and he had a white commissioner, and then Burrell gets the gig late in Royce's reign. Suddenly in comes Carcetti, knocking Royce unexpectedly off his perch, but he is in a precarious position initially and the optics of immediately firing the black commissioner and replacing him with another white guy could easily be spun by opponents as him being racist or out of touch. Daniels is obviously a fantastic way to please everybody eventually, but it's too early to shove him into place, and would ironically cause the reverse of the problem by having people saying he only picked him because he is black. So your only option is Rawls, and he just doesn't have the political clout at that point to make it work. By the end of the series, Daniels is forced to step down almost immediately after becoming commissioner, and you can't just slot Rawls back into the spot, but by that point there is less danger of Carcetti being perceived negatively for replacing a black commissioner with a white one, and other political considerations are in place. Valchek, for as useless as he is, is an established force, has a lot of influence, and most importantly for City Hall is an active, willing and even eager participant in "the game" who can be relied upon to throw all integrity aside to produce whatever response/statistics/policies they want. Also, to repeat one of my frequent criticisms of Carcetti.... at that point what does he care about grooming a competent young black successor to the role? He's already eying (and gets) the Governor's seat and he'll have barely started his first term before he would be considering taking a run at the White House. Baltimore's long term policing success is far less relevant to his interests at that point. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 04:38 on May 13, 2023 |
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May 13, 2023 04:28
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Jerusalem posted:.
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May 13, 2023 14:36
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I was surprised to find out how Baltimore has only something like 500k inhabitants. That's just a mid-sized city, but Avon/Marlo/Joe are still taking in millions per year. Found some estimates that there are ~60k drug addicts living in/around the city, so that actually makes sense. That would be a market worth several hundred millions of $ per year in revenue. The logistics of distributing drugs to tens of thousands of people per day while under constant surveillance is pretty impressive. You need to be really organized to pull that off. Also, lmao at D'Angelo taking the bus to work in the first season. Guess only very little of these hundreds of millions makes it down corporate chart. Everyone below Avon/Stringer/Vandapolis/Marlo is living pretty modestly.
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May 13, 2023 15:13
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GABA ghoul posted:Also, lmao at D'Angelo taking the bus to work in the first season. Guess only very little of these hundreds of millions makes it down corporate chart. Everyone below Avon/Stringer/Vandapolis/Marlo is living pretty modestly. Now you think Avon Barksdale gonna go on that bus and say, "Hey, Mister D'Angelo, you the bomb. We sellin' drugs than you can fill the vials. So I'm gonna write my kingpin-rear end name on this fat-rear end check for you"?
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May 13, 2023 15:56
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:Because he realizes he can’t throw away a hundred thousand votes in his next election. Baltimore residents vote in state elections, too. If the new Mayor ends up being black - as seemed likely, Campbell was probably going to end up there next - then they probably have a lot more leeway for whether the Commissioner is white or black. If the new Mayor ends up being white, and probably more importantly Republican, then he can just remind people that when HE was Mayor he openly embraced the ministers and took a keen interest in helping develop the career of talented young police like Cedric Daniels, who after all only stepped down as commissioner because of a family thing, and Carcetti understands that because TOMMY CARCETTI CARES ABOUT FAMILIES IF YOU LOVE YOUR FAMILY THEN VOTE FOR TOMMY CARCETTI FOR PRESIDENT!
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May 13, 2023 22:46
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Jerusalem posted:If the new Mayor ends up being black - as seemed likely, Campbell was probably going to end up there next - then they probably have a lot more leeway for whether the Commissioner is white or black. If the new Mayor ends up being white, and probably more importantly Republican, then he can just remind people that when HE was Mayor he openly embraced the ministers and took a keen interest in helping develop the career of talented young police like Cedric Daniels, who after all only stepped down as commissioner because of a family thing, and Carcetti understands that because TOMMY CARCETTI CARES ABOUT FAMILIES IF YOU LOVE YOUR FAMILY THEN VOTE FOR TOMMY CARCETTI FOR PRESIDENT! Baltimore hasn't had a Republican mayor since 1962. Baltimore's mayoral race is strictly between Democratic candidates.
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May 15, 2023 09:09
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V-Men posted:Baltimore hasn't had a Republican mayor since 1962. Baltimore's mayoral race is strictly between Democratic candidates. Yeah. That’s why everyone started calling Carcetti “mayor” after he won the primary. He even keeps saying that he has to still win the general, which everyone laughs at, because a Republican winning Baltimore is a joke.
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May 15, 2023 14:10
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Xiahou Dun posted:Yeah. That’s why everyone started calling Carcetti “mayor” after he won the primary. He even keeps saying that he has to still win the general, which everyone laughs at, because a Republican winning Baltimore is a joke. Yeah I had forgotten but he even cracks a joke at one point saying something like,"Do we even have a Republican candidate?"
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May 15, 2023 15:44
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Why does Brother Mouzone travel with Lamar? Wouldn't it make sense, if Mouzone if Nation of Islam or Fruit of Islam, that he'd just be accompanied by another member of the group?
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May 15, 2023 17:00
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