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Actually, I think that can be a complicated question to answer. I think most of the time it's in the interest of all parties involved to not talk poo poo until long after the fact, and by that point, most people get a lot softer once they no longer have to work together and just meet at like conventions. Ultimately you're doing a lot of guessing at the feelings of people you don't know. Maybe trying to pick up gossip. I kinda get the sense that JMS is pretty weird and awkward to deal with on an interpersonal basis, but also he's the one who posted the most online about the show. There's a couple of disagreements, not much big so far as I know. I guess the biggest things I remember are: Season 2 spoilers:
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May 19, 2023 04:34
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SlothfulCobra posted:Actually, I think that can be a complicated question to answer. I think most of the time it's in the interest of all parties involved to not talk poo poo until long after the fact, and by that point, most people get a lot softer once they no longer have to work together and just meet at like conventions. Ultimately you're doing a lot of guessing at the feelings of people you don't know. Maybe trying to pick up gossip. Yeah, emphasis on Most; I think other than Thompson being a bit outcast from the rest, and O'Hare's whole thing, there seems to be evidence that they were fairly close. There was the whole Be Five thing, which is not the sort of thing that I associate with a purely cordial professional relationship amongst the gang, and just in general, it feels like those members of the cast that were around for the end of the run were quite tight, even if the folks that left earlier in the run don't seem to be part of the gang.
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May 19, 2023 05:08
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To save anyone from accidental googles, the Be Five is a jazz band that had a good chunk of the main cast as vocals, with Mumy writing most of the songs. They made one album. Mostly it was Mumy, Christian, Jurasik, Furlan, and Katsulas. Tallman sang backup on two tracks.
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May 19, 2023 05:19
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CainFortea posted:To save anyone from accidental googles, the Be Five is a jazz band that had a good chunk of the main cast as vocals, with Mumy writing most of the songs. They made one album. Mostly it was Mumy, Christian, Jurasik, Furlan, and Katsulas. And was specifically released as a "fun convention exclusive" type thing, IIRC, which points to "this was definitely friends having a good time, and not a professional moneymaking endeavor" - though it has since gotten some wider releases.
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May 19, 2023 05:29
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I picked up a copy on Ebay a while back when I heard about it (because why would you not?). It's pretty good for what it is.
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May 19, 2023 06:16
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It's not like its on Spotify or anything. https://open.spotify.com/album/3Cn6nlH7LanrlbzIlJAj0v
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May 19, 2023 09:22
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SlothfulCobra posted:
This is technically a spoiler for the rest of the show, though I can't say I wasn't expecting it. Still, I do think it would have been nice for her to have stuck around - without her the Psi Corps are just another external danger to the crew that we can ignore most of the time, as opposed to a member of the crew who is both part of the corps and friends with the people working against them. Though I'm still just partway through S3 so I can't say what the role of Psi Corps ends up being of course.
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May 19, 2023 11:21
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Huh...somehow I hadn't yet heard of Be Five. That sounds fairly cool; will have to check it out. 4x02: Whatever Happened To Mr. Garibaldi? Before getting into this episode: I reviewed Morden's original "What do you want?" appeal to Londo, Delenn and G'kar on Youtube. Londo, of course, we already know. Delenn sensed who/what Morden was and told him to gtfo. G'kar is an interesting one, because although Morden never visited him again, G'kar is - in a sense - getting what he asked for: the sky of Centauri Prime to be blackened and for the cities of Centauri Prime to be torn down. We still don't know exactly how Morden works so it's possible that despite being on the side of Light, Morden was bound to honor G'kar's request, however circuitously it was done. Lorien is such an interesting twist on Sheridan's...sabbatical, for lack of a better term? I genuinely can't tell anymore whether he's about to be reborn or die for good. Is Lorien the face of God himself or simply the first being in the universe? Sheridan and Delenn both are on twin paths of redemption here. Ironically, a moment of triumph - Z'Ha'Dum being nuked - has accompanied a lot of uncertainty about the future. They're both having to "pick themselves up by the bootstraps" in a way and learn how to keep going. It's a marvelous metaphor for the ongoing fight against fascism. As we've seen over the past half decade or so, fascism is never defeated but simply remains dormant until the conditions are right. It's very much like the Shadows in that way. It's a supreme irony that G'kar has agreed to help his mortal enemies, and specifically his "frenemy" Londo, to overthrow Cartagia. It reminds me of the arc for one of the characters of Star Trek: DS9 (I'll keep it spoiler free in case some of you haven't watched that series). This feels like another piece of the '17 years into the future' puzzle that Sheridan saw. F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 21:39 on May 19, 2023 |
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May 19, 2023 18:44
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4x03: The Summoning Between G'kar being brought in on a cross-like yoke and Cartagia washing his hands after taking over for one of the "pain technicians" (another feature of the Y2K era B5 anticipated), it's pretty clear that G'kar is being cast as a Christ-like figure. Suuure, Chuck Norris is supposed to be a badass, but could he go to Z'Ha'Dum, look the Shadows in the eye and come back unharmed? Didn't think so. It'd probably be too spoiler-y, but I can imagine one of those gifs where a pair of sunglasses comes down over Sheridan's eyes with the "Deal With It" macro. So to make sure I understand the situation with the Vorlons correctly: I'm surprised that Garibaldi is privy to these talks with the War Council. How does anyone know he can be trusted after that "program activated" thing? He's clearly a toaster now! To be slightly more serious, though: Garibaldi's captors seemed like they might have been human considering the lifesuit the person wore when Garibaldi was gassed. F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 23:18 on May 20, 2023 |
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May 20, 2023 22:53
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4x04: Falling Towards Apotheosis "The Sheridan Abides".....for another twenty years or so. Not a huge surprise that his adventures on Z'Ha'Dum would come with a price like that. Twenty years is not a bad life for a guy who has already reached the level of Captain and has accomplished the things Sheridan has. That fight with the Vorlon reminded me pretty strongly of Pretty cool poo poo. Star Trek TNG got a lot of poo poo for having a counselor on board as a member of the senior staff, but honestly? Given Garibaldi's saltiness since he was rescued, Babylon 5 could really use the services of Deanna Troi. Garibaldi would probably consider talking to her a waste of time but his vibe's been off since he got back. He's become a bit too Q-anon. Finally, I've underestimated Londo. The way he played Cartagia like a fiddle was really clever. That's the way you deal with someone like that: appeal to their vanity. Unfortunately, I've looked up too much B5 poo poo on Youtube; it's been spoiled for me that Cartagia is eventually killed. I just don't know how yet (probably on Narn). F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 01:49 on May 23, 2023 |
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May 23, 2023 01:43
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The issue with Troi was less that it's wrong to have a counselor on the main crew, and more the fact that it was the 90s, and pop culture at large just didn't respect the idea of getting therapy. So when TNG wanted to have plots about people opening up about their problems or working through some emotions, they'd go to the bartender instead. I imagine a telepath would be pretty good for therapy as well, but it just doesn't really occur much to B5.
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May 23, 2023 03:32
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:4x02: Whatever Happened To Mr. Garibaldi? I think that G'Kar is very insistent on revenge, but isn't expansionist beyond that. The Narn WANT to deal with their oppressors, but they aren't looking to carve their own empire out beyond securing their borders to ensure they can't be oppressed again. Thus they are useless to the shadow philosophy. By comparison, Londo wants the Centauri to expand and colonize like they used to. Londo WANTS to attack those around him
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May 23, 2023 06:56
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4x05: The Long Night I can't tell if it's just me or not, but the Biblical references have abounded ever since G'kar was taken prisoner by Emperor Psychogia. There have been so many of them that it's hard to imagine that it's an accident - "my eye offended him", the yoke that G'kar was wearing when he was paraded in front of his people, etc. G'kar's comment to G'Lorn that the Centauri are a "dying people" reminded me, once again, of Lady Majel's predictions - all of which have come true. One possible path for Londo's redemption was "not killing that which is already dead", which could very well mean his people and/or his homeworld. Speaking of Londo, that scene with Vir was one of the best Londo (and Vir) moments of the entire series. Londo is self-serving and arguably has a lot of blood on his hands already (Cartagia and the Centauri's involvement with the Shadows are his fault), but he is capable of good. Still don't especially trust Garibaldi, and I'm just waiting for the moment when whatever it is that happened to him between seasons finally drops. Maybe it's nothing, but he hasn't really been himself since he got back to B5 (in my opinion).
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May 24, 2023 01:29
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Not a spoiler IMO, but I always err on the side of caution. On the subject of Stephen Furst as Vir and RL health: In addition to what was already mentioned, JMS says in the script books that Furst also had a really bad spine curvature which they tried to downplay with camera work. Between seasons he had surgery to correct it and then they had to be careful to keep his back brace out of shot. You can see in later seasons that he's standing ramrod straight compared to before.
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May 24, 2023 15:47
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4x06: Into The Fire Holy gently caress was that Londo scene with Morden a banger. I enjoyed the gently caress out of that. Wasser played Morden so smarmily; it was nice to see that smug smile wiped off his face for once. Most likely, Londo is going to live to regret this moment; we know this because of the future glimpse that Sheridan got. Still, it was satisfying to watch and Londo kinda deserved that win. The end of this war was novel - some (not me) would even say anti-climactic, but I liked it a lot. Very Star Trek. It reminded me of the Metron telling Kirk that we humans are "still half savage". The realization that we "younger races" were caught between warring parents was a 'why didn't I think of this before?' moment. One question: when the Vorlons/Shadows were showing Delenn and Sheridan images of their friends - Marcus, Franklin, Lennier - was this the moment anticipated by the vision where Ivanova appeared to Sheridan in a dream with a bird on her shoulder? Also: where was Garibaldi during all of this? What exactly happened to him between seasons is as yet unresolved. I also chuckled at the description of the next episode. Naturally, Earth Alliance would come for Babylon 5's rear end right on the heels of the Shadow/Vorlon war being resolved. Possibly they're coming for Sheridan and Babylon 5 because the war was resolved and they can no longer count on Morden/the Shadows' help for President Clark. Though we are talking about a badass who went to Z'Ha'Dum, survived, and then stared a Vorlon and Shadow in the face and told them to gently caress off, so... F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 17:22 on May 26, 2023 |
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May 26, 2023 02:21
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4x07: Epiphanies 4x08: The Illusion of Truth As the White Star was en route to Z'Ha'Dum, I remembered future-Delenn's warning to Sheridan: "Don't go to Z'Ha'Dum!". Turns out that she was probably referring to the captains' original trip to Z'Ha'Dum, as the planet (seemingly) ceased to exist during this episode. The motives behind whoever or whatever is controlling Garibaldi are confusing me. If he's a skinjob presumably designed to inflict harm on Babylon 5 and its officers, why resign his commission? There's obviously something else going on here, but randomly deciding to resign is very un-Garibaldi (though there were a few moments, like the ones with G'kar and Zack, where Michael seemed more like himself). Now that the Shadow and Vorlon threats have been neutralized, I guess the final battle is going to be with Clark and Earth Alliance. Things are going surprisingly well for B5 so far, so I fully expect that a reversal is coming soon; it always does. Despite being a fearsome warrior, G'kar is, at heart, a gentle soul. I've gained immense respect for him over the course of the series. Having said that, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of his fury. Londo being told "My universe no longer includes you. Pray that we never notice each other again" was probably getting off easy considering what G'kar had to suffer at the Centauri's hands. ****************************************  My sweet, sweet dumb summer children. You went toe to toe with the Vorlons and the Shadows. You faced an entire squadron of Earth Force ships and won. Sheridan himself was the first person ever to come back alive from Z'Ha'Dum....and yet you still naively thought, "Oh, maybe if we just tell our side of the story ISN won't be able to spin this in a way that makes us look bad!".  To sum it up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQunC9jniqw e: The episode guide someone ITT helpfully provided had an alternate suggestion about Londo killing Morden in the previous episode - that Morden may be "the one who is already dead" (my conjecture was that it was the Centauri race or Centauri Prime) and therefore, may represent a lost chance for Londo to redeem himself. Given Londo's apparent character arc, that's plausible. The tragedy of Londo may be that saving Centauri Prime was a Pyrrhic victory because he lost his soul to get there. F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 01:56 on May 27, 2023 |
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May 26, 2023 21:00
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Horsebanger posted:I think that G'Kar is very insistent on revenge, but isn't expansionist beyond that. The Narn WANT to deal with their oppressors, but they aren't looking to carve their own empire out beyond securing their borders to ensure they can't be oppressed again. Thus they are useless to the shadow philosophy. By comparison, Londo wants the Centauri to expand and colonize like they used to. Londo WANTS to attack those around him Yeah when Morden talks to G'kar. His take on what happens after they've paid back the Centauri is "Eh, whatever. Guess we chill". Not "And then we'll claim our manifest destiny in the Stars". If he had Morden (and the Shadows) would probably have backed the Narn.
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May 27, 2023 11:25
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Deptfordx posted:Yeah when Morden talks to G'kar. His take on what happens after they've paid back the Centauri is "Eh, whatever. Guess we chill". Not "And then we'll claim our manifest destiny in the Stars". If he had Morden (and the Shadows) would probably have backed the Narn. Or both
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May 27, 2023 22:37
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4x09: Atonement Again with the Minbari ceremonies and rituals. To paraphrase Hunt for Red October: "The Minbari don't take a dump, son, without a plan". Timey-wimey stuff really blows my mind sometimes. Not only did Delenn actually know Valen, but it turns out that she's a distant relative of his. That, to me, was actually more of a  than the revelation that she was the cause of the Earth-Minbari war.Nothing good comes from someone moaning about the "purity of our race". I'm not nearly as confident as Sheridan was that the fascists don't have his dad. "If they had him they would have used him against me" strikes me as naive. It's possible that Mr. Sheridan is an ace up Clark's sleeve in case certain other propaganda work doesn't do the job. Dealing with Night Watch goons I wouldn't leave anything to chance. F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 01:59 on May 28, 2023 |
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May 28, 2023 01:51
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Deptfordx posted:Yeah when Morden talks to G'kar. His take on what happens after they've paid back the Centauri is "Eh, whatever. Guess we chill". Not "And then we'll claim our manifest destiny in the Stars". If he had Morden (and the Shadows) would probably have backed the Narn. (I guess up through 4x06?) I think you can also read that on a personal level, G'kar can calmly step back from his impassioned speech about his desire for genocide and peacefully assert the importance of his world's safety, he's not as easy to manipulate as Londo. Not as emotional. He does his revenge cold and planned. And on a broader level, G'kar had been playing tough politics with prospects of violence for longer than Londo, and G'kar is higher-ranking with more prestige on his homeworld than Londo, and far less weaknesses. Londo could dream idly about reclaiming greatness because he was at a dead end in his career, while G'kar's ambitions he was working towards directly.
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May 28, 2023 06:44
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I'm not nearly as confident as Sheridan was that the fascists don't have his dad. "If they had him they would have used him against me" strikes me as naive. It's possible that Mr. Sheridan is an ace up Clark's sleeve in case certain other propaganda work doesn't do the job. Dealing with Night Watch goons I wouldn't leave anything to chance. I'm just going to throw out that the actor who plays the elder Sherridan has killed it in all of his appearances.
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May 28, 2023 08:33
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mllaneza posted:I'm just going to throw out that the actor who plays the elder Sherridan has killed it in all of his appearances. Edit your quote, you've broken the spoiler tags.
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May 28, 2023 09:12
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SlothfulCobra posted:(I guess up through 4x06?) There was also the somewhat mysterious intervention Kosh did to stop G'kar from shattering Londo's mind - taking the firm of G'kar's father. Still not sure exactly what was up with that or if we'll ever find out.
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May 28, 2023 13:14
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RedSnapper posted:Or both I feel like they'd back the Narn because the Shadows like the new shiny and would be "Ok. The Centauri, great colonising power, top-tier back in the day. But let's see what the new guys can do". Feels on brand for them.
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May 28, 2023 16:11
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4x10: Racing Mars It's quite obvious that there's either some sort of implanted personality or suggestion that's feeding this garbage to Garibaldi. Although I like the dissent over Sheridan's alleged "hero worship" (that's not something we really got to see on DS9 with Sisko playing the dual role of Starfleet officer and Emissary), it's probably a fascist trick - soften up opinion about Sheridan and B5 through carefully planted propaganda and then lop the head off the resistance by capturing its leader. I'm beginning to see why people don't like Marcus. For someone trying to work in the underground he talks a bit too much and he comes across as a little on the smug side. However, the parasite infecting Captain Jack is interesting. Is it related to the neural parasites that Babylon 5 dealt with about half a season ago? Is it related to that...thing that hooked on to the Regent of Centauri Prime? Is it another of Clark's fascist tricks? Also  at "Woo hoo". I was half expecting Lennier to compliment Sheridan on his technique.F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 19:26 on May 29, 2023 |
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May 29, 2023 19:06
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4x11: Lines of Communication Man...only a season and a half yet to go. I'm going to miss this series when I finish it. What a ride! I am....skeptical that Sheridan is going to be able to win a propaganda war against fascists. It's like I've probably said before: fascists are dumb as dogshit but they do usually know how to do good propaganda. It would probably be an easy matter for Clark to simply dismiss Ivanova's musings as "trying to put a friendly face on the horrors at Babylon 5". Of course that'd be baldfaced projection, but that's the other thing fascists do pretty well. Easy, agreeable wins against tinpot fascist fucks like Clark usually only happen on TV or in movies. Real life is always more complicated. Dunno. Delenn and Sheridan's conversation at the end was interesting. The way she was talking wasn't exactly proving Garibaldi's point about Sheridan allowing hero worship to go to his head, but it was an acknowledgment that Sheridan had been "touched by destiny" and that he was forever changed by his Z'Ha'Dum experiences. The Drakh looked like he had gotten lost on the way to the Cantina on Tatooine.
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May 30, 2023 19:03
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Jedit posted:Edit your quote, you've broken the spoiler tags. Looks okay to me. Browser glitch?
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May 30, 2023 19:08
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mllaneza posted:Looks okay to me. Browser glitch? 
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May 30, 2023 20:05
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DTurtle posted:It was apparently fixed by friendly mods. 
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May 30, 2023 21:11
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Man...only a season and a half yet to go. I'm going to miss this series when I finish it. What a ride! Good news! There's 6 dtv movies as well, as well as whatever the hell Lost Tales is. Bad news: They're mostly not very good. They don't really have the momentum of an ongoing narrative working for them after the end of the series proper. Some don't even have any B-plots, which is a real step down from the show cramming multiple plots into one episode.
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May 31, 2023 00:04
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SlothfulCobra posted:Good news! There's 6 dtv movies as well, as well as whatever the hell Lost Tales is. Aw, that sucks. But if I were to watch one of these movies for the sake of completion, is there a particular one to start on? I understand one of them might help to introduce certain things in the pilot.
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May 31, 2023 00:19
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Aw, that sucks. But if I were to watch one of these movies for the sake of completion, is there a particular one to start on? I understand one of them might help to introduce certain things in the pilot. In the Beginning is excellent and everyone likes it. A couple of the other ones aren't bad, you should just watch 'em all IMO. The worst one also has the unintentionally funniest scene in the series.
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May 31, 2023 00:22
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Aw, that sucks. But if I were to watch one of these movies for the sake of completion, is there a particular one to start on? I understand one of them might help to introduce certain things in the pilot. That's In The Beginning, but a warning to all blind watchers: it was meant as a turbo-speed catchup for people who hadn't watched S1-4. Don't watch it until you've finished the main run, and use it for context.As for the others: Thirdspace should not be watched until you're past the midpoint of S4, River of Souls comes during S5 and A Call To Arms - being also the pilot for the sequel series Crusade - should not be watched until you've finished the show. We also have some more info on Babylon 5: The Road Home, the animated movie coming this summer. Although I can't yet say where it fits in the narrative, based on the casting and a few other things I'd recommend watching it post-S5.
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May 31, 2023 00:37
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Grand Fromage posted:In the Beginning is excellent and everyone likes it. A couple of the other ones aren't bad, you should just watch 'em all IMO. The worst one also has the unintentionally funniest scene in the series. Are you talking about a certain weapons targeting interface?
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May 31, 2023 08:50
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A funny sort of recommendation for someone looking for more B5 is Star Wreck: In The Pirkinning, a full-length Star Trek / B5 crossover parody movie from 2005 made by a bunch of Finnish college kids who could do some incredible CG sequences but also manage to be genuinely funny pretty often. However, it should not be watched until you've seen everything B5 up to and including A Call to Arms (the movie) due to all the references. This is the complete movie with optional English subtitles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GOoMowFpZs Zat fucked around with this message at 11:15 on May 31, 2023 |
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May 31, 2023 09:33
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Zat posted:A funny sort of recommendation for someone looking for more B5 is Star Wreck: In The Pirkinning, a full-length Star Trek / B5 crossover parody movie from 2005 made by a bunch of Finnish college kids who could do some incredible CG sequences but also manage to be genuinely funny pretty often. They're also the team that eventually made the insane Iron Sky movies.
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May 31, 2023 17:20
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4x12: Conflicts of Interest There were a couple of times during this episode that I got that 'this will be relevant in the future' tickle in my brain: 1. The telepath killer macguffin that Garibaldi helped smuggle. I'm not sure I follow what that was about but I doubt it's anything good given the 'Emo Garibaldi' arc this season. 2. Sheridan asking G'kar and Londo to allow Rangers into their respective territories to guard against the Drakh. I'm wondering if it will have something to do with the future Sheridan saw in "War Without End". Not sure what else to say other than idle speculation/guesses about what's coming. Didn't anyone think to just cancel Garibaldi's authorizations after he resigned? Liked the scene with Zathras.
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May 31, 2023 21:16
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I found an interview clip on Youtube of Bill Mumy talking about taking the role of Lennier. It's not that he didn't like Babylon 5 or his costars (as far as I know) but the costuming was apparently a lot more elaborate and time-consuming than he had anticipated. It make me appreciate the work he did on the series even more than I already did. 4x13: Rumors, Bargains & Lies That was exceptionally well done on Sheridan's part, but he was playing a dangerous game. Push the innuendo a bit too much, and he could have easily started a panic spiral among the Non Aligned Worlds that would have caused more problems. I'm really warming up to the Voice of the Resistance. At first I thought it was a bit on the naive side to think that you could fight a propaganda war with fascists and win, but using Draal/Zathras' broadcasting system to blast a signal to Earth might be a smart thing to do. Maybe it won't change any minds about Sheridan or Babylon 5 but it might turn public opinion away from Clark. Lennier is a good man. If Delenn doesn't see the world as we do, and we should hope to see things more her way, we should also hope to be as loyal as Lennier.
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Jun 2, 2023 01:43
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4x14: Moments of Transition Well. Babylon 5. I'm enjoying the role reversal between Zack and Garibaldi. A season or two ago, Garibaldi was trying to bring Zack back from the Night Watch abyss. Now Zack is trying to understand what the hell is actually going on with Garibaldi. To that end, I originally thought that Lyta taking a job with Garibaldi was an underhanded way to help out Zack without betraying her ethics, but I guess not. I'm not sure how Edgars and Bester are connected but whatever it is, it can't be good. Earth. Attacking civilians feels very strongly to me like a trap; a way to goad Sheridan into attacking before he's ready. His impassioned speech at the end was admirable (the road to hell is paved with "I was just following orders"), but I thought it mirrored Delenn's momentary bout of anger after Dukhat* died. I agree with his reasoning; bash the fash! I just question whether he's ready for a full assault of Earth. * Boy, it is weird that 'Dukat' is a good person in the Babylon 5 universe after watching DS9... Minbar. The only one of these three where there seem to be positive developments. Solidarity to the Workers Caste for belatedly gaining a spot on the Grey Council; this should have happened a long time ago. "The one who is to be revealed"...I wonder if B5 is going to pull another Sinclair/Valen type surprise when this individual to lead the Grey Council is revealed.
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Jun 3, 2023 20:55
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The Workers Caste has always had a seat on the gray council. 9 members, three from each caste.
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Jun 3, 2023 21:24
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