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 I'm slightly late but it's Campaign 3 Episode 60!!!
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Jun 2, 2023 03:06
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seems like a nice little town, can't wait to see how hosed up it's gonna get
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Jun 2, 2023 04:03
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Interesting. Wonder in what direction this is heading. EDIT: Huh, maybe this actually the inversion of what I expected in terms of the relative party attitudes to gods. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Jun 2, 2023 |
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Jun 2, 2023 04:26
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this is like if the wicker man villagers were in the IRA and i'm here for it
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Jun 2, 2023 05:57
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they may have uncovered a slight Cult of Elemental Evil situation here...
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Jun 2, 2023 05:58
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eke out posted:this is like if the wicker man villagers were in the IRA and i'm here for it I get the feeling this team is going on a "Kill everyone" path to contrast the other team's "Save the town with friendship" path
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Jun 2, 2023 06:01
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DarklyDreaming posted:I get the feeling this team is going on a "Kill everyone" path to contrast the other team's "Save the town with friendship" path there's always "abruptly betray the townspeople and ally with vasselheim forces" option when they start going murder crazy but yeah lol this seems like a lot more of a no-win no-good-guys situation than the other party got
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Jun 2, 2023 06:04
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We need blood from someone killed within 24 hours Hey Chad get over here 
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Jun 2, 2023 06:43
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God, poor Liam. I hate it when the dice gently caress things up like this.
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Jun 2, 2023 07:00
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Jetrauben posted:God, poor Liam. I hate it when the dice gently caress things up like this. It's truly unfortunate.
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Jun 2, 2023 07:02
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I will say drat, are the anti-god arguments kind of weak. On the other hand, it kind of feels like Mercer dialed up the Dawnfather's assholery a bit to make it feel a little less totally unjustified?
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Jun 2, 2023 07:27
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Jetrauben posted:I will say drat, are the anti-god arguments kind of weak. On the other hand, it kind of feels like Mercer dialed up the Dawnfather's assholery a bit to make it feel a little less totally unjustified? Yeah I feel like Matt's trying to do the whole "He's out of line but he's right" approach to Ludinus, the problem is that the earlier text contradicts this attitude at every level
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Jun 2, 2023 07:31
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DarklyDreaming posted:Yeah I feel like Matt's trying to do the whole "He's out of line but he's right" approach to Ludinus, the problem is that the earlier text contradicts this attitude at every level Yeah, like, it feels genuinely impossible for Ludinus to be remotely right. The Calamity was the direct fault of mortal wizards being jerks, and the good-aligned gods in campaign 1 and 2 are by and large clearly forces for good and justice. The Dawnfather is being a dick, but notably I don't really think that that applies to the other gods or even prior text. Idunno, it's confusing.
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Jun 2, 2023 07:57
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Maybe the Dawnfather is just cranky this decade.
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Jun 2, 2023 13:01
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Jetrauben posted:Yeah, like, it feels genuinely impossible for Ludinus to be remotely right. The Calamity was the direct fault of mortal wizards being jerks, and the good-aligned gods in campaign 1 and 2 are by and large clearly forces for good and justice. The Dawnfather is being a dick, but notably I don't really think that that applies to the other gods or even prior text. The Calamity was the fault of one evil God doing his best to abuse the good heart and intentions of people.
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Jun 2, 2023 13:38
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I think Matt is aiming at a position you can argue from a reasonable place; fundamentally it’s “there is no such thing as a good dictator, only less tyrannical ones; let’s break out the guillotines and drat the consequences” writ large, which… when you have a set of gods that are known to be fallible and have interests which are not necessarily aligned with humanity is a position I can see being persuaded by. It obviously has the same problems as everything in that genre, but it is a position someone could conceivably arrive at without being a Saturday morning cartoon villain. Especially if you’ve gotten used to the ultra privilege of having magic for centuries. I don’t think Ludinus is right but I do think he’s got an understandable (if ultimately evil) position. It’s just, you know, I like Big Thinky Philosophical Villians as much as the next DM but the tabletop ain’t really the greatest space for the nuances of their positions to come out most of the time.
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Jun 2, 2023 14:34
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i think sending this crew to this continent helps with that, given we've been in a lot of places without a lot of divine control, but here you have proper religious secret police and poo poo and there is the whole part where agents of vasselheim covered all this up forever. i am guessing "a lot of the gods aren't so bad but a whole lot of the current organized religion is a gently caress" is going to be the synthesis
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Jun 2, 2023 15:19
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Screw the metaphilosophical debates. "We're going to drive the religeous intruders out by force" becomes "Let's get the guards drunk and high and friendly" becomes "I'm turning the moon into a sign from god" and "gently caress it, I'm using vines and my sword to toss this fool into the wall" is the kind of chucklefuckery I come here for and I'm loving this.
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Jun 2, 2023 15:29
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Wyld Karde posted:Screw the metaphilosophical debates. "We're going to drive the religeous intruders out by force" becomes "Let's get the guards drunk and high and friendly" becomes "I'm turning the moon into a sign from god" and "gently caress it, I'm using vines and my sword to toss this fool into the wall" is the kind of chucklefuckery I come here for and I'm loving this. Similarly Orym reacting the way he did makes it clear some kind of switch has flipped and he's ready to kill anyone or anything that stands between him and Ludinus' vital organs 
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Jun 2, 2023 16:01
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The Calamity was the fault of one evil God doing his best to abuse the good heart and intentions of people. Ehhhh... The Calamity was also the direct result of an immensely corrupt and unjust civilization that could not see any reason to ever restrain itself, and the efforts of multiple mages to clutch at cosmic total power - Chloris to replace a god, and Laerryn and co to get access to the other planes - implicitly, getting the right to pillage the afterlife should they see fit. (That's basically why you'd want to get access to the outer planes as a bunch of greedy wizards who are already skimming off the top and violating their deals with others to have more magic for their pet projects or life extension, or at least a totally logical outcome thereof.) Avalir and the other flying mage cities were deeply corrupt! Asmodeus and the Betrayers were monsters, but they were in a position to do harm thanks to wizard bullshit. Ludinus and co are wizards who resent the idea that anyone else can have or deserve power, especially clerics, whom they feel haven't "earned" it the way they have. In that, they're just a continuation of Age of Arcanum nonsense. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Jun 2, 2023 |
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Jun 2, 2023 18:44
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Campaign 3 Episode 61 is happening! Holy poo poo I'm so far behind again!
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Jun 9, 2023 02:50
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Oh my god the MacBooks Twitter hack
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Jun 9, 2023 03:03
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I half expect this fight to end in an unequivocal "so you murdered a bunch of basically innocent people at the behest of creepy elemental cultists who want to cast down benevolent powers from their thrones, escalating to lethal violence at the first inconvenience, have fun with your alignment change." 'Cause yeah, this does not seem like a Good Guy engagement here, it feels like killing a bunch of people at the behest of sketchy fanatics. Campaign 1 Vox Machina had alignment changes for less! But maybe I just wanna see a subversion, so idunno. Edit: yeah, idk, this feels frankly like the party just leapt into the evil pool for essentially no reason that's remotely justified? Edit again: ok I half feel escalating this even more is a terrible idea? Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Jun 9, 2023 |
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Jun 9, 2023 03:55
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Summoning a demon to kill an angel in a church is a mood
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Jun 9, 2023 04:50
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Froghammer posted:Summoning a demon to kill an angel in a church is a mood It certainly is a mood! I don't particularly get why the party keeps escalating.
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Jun 9, 2023 04:51
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Froghammer posted:Summoning a demon to kill an angel in a church is a mood Summoning a demon to kill an angel using the blood of a victim slaughtered IN said church, nonetheless
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Jun 9, 2023 04:52
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No Safe Word posted:Summoning a demon to kill an angel using the blood of a victim slaughtered IN said church, nonetheless Yeah, like, I'm sorry, this party is frankly reading as The Bad Guys right now. Summoning a demon with the blood of a murdered cleric who didn't unequivocally acquiesce to your demands, who spent her last moments bleeding out desperately praying for deliverance? Pelor sending down an angel to say "knock that poo poo off" is the restrained option, as opposed to nuking the chapel and TPKing the party for being complicit in pretty evil actions.
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Jun 9, 2023 04:53
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I'm legitimately impressed with how well Emily has fit in. I enjoy her schtick on D20 but it definitely seemed like it would mostly just work with people she was very close with already, but she's doing great here. And also for anyone who is watching D20 this season, Laura Baily got a mention from Matt when Anjali revealed she has like a huge box of dice that she uses and Matt said something like "that's some Laura Bailey energy right there" (also you should watch D20)
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Jun 9, 2023 05:20
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No Safe Word posted:I'm legitimately impressed with how well Emily has fit in. I enjoy her schtick on D20 but it definitely seemed like it would mostly just work with people she was very close with already, but she's doing great here. Emily's fun and I've liked her on D20, but - maybe this is unfair of me - it feels like the guests are way escalating this encounter, for reasons that feel kind of poorly-fleshed out? But then the entire "eh overthrowing the gods sounds fun" to "gently caress the gods!" position most of the guests in both parties have taken feels weird, given their generally benign to benevolent presence in the world? I don't know, this just feels weirdly murderhobo-ish in a way that Critical Role usually doesn't, (but very much does feel like Dimension 20, which is one of the reasons I like it less.) Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Jun 9, 2023 |
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Jun 9, 2023 05:23
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are you people trying to say the ultra religious folks who showed up and have been bullying the towns people are the good guys?
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Jun 9, 2023 05:56
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Matt with the sudden SoaD nostalgia
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Jun 9, 2023 06:06
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Dragonstoned posted:are you people trying to say the ultra religious folks who showed up and have been bullying the towns people are the good guys? I could just as easily say "oh so the party who just murdered a bunch of people trying to protect the world from the rear end in a top hat currently trying to feed the creators of the world and all mortal life to a rapacious predator are the good guys?" Remember, the local elder basically just said "oh yeah Ludinus totally has a point!"
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Jun 9, 2023 06:12
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but these guys weren't doing poo poo to stop Ludinus, they were intimidating and oppressing a town of people who didn't follow their religion Orym tried to convince them to help with Ludinus but was essentially arrested for it, which kicked of the battle Jetrauben posted:Remember, the local elder basically just said "oh yeah Ludinus totally has a point!" So have a couple of members of the party... and its no shocker that people being oppressed by a religious authority are thinking "maybe religious authority should gently caress off forever"
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Jun 9, 2023 06:22
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Dragonstoned posted:but these guys weren't doing poo poo to stop Ludinus, they were intimidating and oppressing a town of people who didn't follow their religion yeah and it's frankly extremely frustrating to me that the party keeps saying "well maybe Ludinus has a point!" when the man is a mass-murdering monster whose goal would mostly just enshrine permanent wizard dominance over a hapless populace forever and who is not only unleashing a rapacious monster that will destroy their creators and benefactors, but has been extending his life by murdering fey.
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Jun 9, 2023 06:36
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the religious authority in-town and the locals have zero knowledge, and basically zero sway, over the larger world events. the town was being colonized by a foreign religious power who have exploited the town to divert its economy, who has inserted thugs to implicitly threaten the locals such that they dont feel safe to speak in public, and clearly long term wish to wipe out their way of life. the locals wish to present the invaders with a "stop or leave" ultimatum, and defend their home when the invaders refuse to leave. that these localized factions may or may not be affiliated on a much larger scale with good or bad causes isn't relevant
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Jun 9, 2023 06:40
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they literally had Catholic Space Marines patrolling a rural town and glaring at anyone who dares to speak freely of their own culture. the locals didn't drive out a religious minority, they drove out colonizers
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Jun 9, 2023 06:42
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Yeeup side-eying the poo poo outta this woman, especially because we know that textually, no, the primordials are assholes who hate mortal life. Edit: Thank you, Liam! Orym finally does the thing! Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Jun 9, 2023 |
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Jun 9, 2023 06:56
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Farg posted:they literally had Catholic Space Marines patrolling a rural town and glaring at anyone who dares to speak freely of their own culture. the locals didn't drive out a religious minority, they drove out colonizers Yeah these are the conditions that make people consider joining a cult or other extremist group, it's not like anyone besides Ludinus is offering a solution to their problems
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Jun 9, 2023 07:52
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DarklyDreaming posted:Yeah these are the conditions that make people consider joining a cult or other extremist group, it's not like anyone besides Ludinus is offering a solution to their problems It would just be nice to actually have some evidence that was more in line with Campaign 1 and 2. It's bizarre to go from C1 and C2 with Pike and Caduceus as virtuous servants of genuinely benevolent deities to "actually Vasselheim is an imperialistic and oppressive force, and they are presumably backed by literal celestial aid." (It is hilarious that Ashton is insisting they're small fry and won't be noticed. Guys, no. You just killed an angel. You just took up arms against the literal servant of a lawful good god of literal actual heaven after murdering one of his clerics begging him to save her in a holy place. You have - probably - just pissed the Dawnfather off! But I expect Mercer will be quietly sweeping it under the rug.) Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Jun 9, 2023 |
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Jun 9, 2023 07:57
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Jetrauben posted:But I expect Mercer will be quietly sweeping it under the rug. I dunno, it's going to be loving interesting when they eventually run into the other half of the group, given the personal visits from deities the clerics there had. Especially Deanna, who is a cleric of the Dawnfather.
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Jun 9, 2023 12:33
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