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ozmunkeh posted:Mumy is absolutely right in that interview when he says Lennier was done dirty at the end. iirc JMS said that Mumy was the one who's idea it was to basically put a fedora on Lennier for his outro.
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Jun 2, 2023 17:51
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Not exactly. He said Mumy insisted that Lennier is secretly in love with Delenn and JMS was like "are you sure you want me to take this path?" and Mumy said yes, so JMS obliged. I don't think Mumy understood he was dealing with a D&D Wish spell situation.
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Jun 2, 2023 18:22
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Yeah, JMS is a good writer but he is a little weird about certain things. 3m30s https://youtu.be/rDi91DpnFYk
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Jun 2, 2023 18:36
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CainFortea posted:iirc JMS said that Mumy was the one who's idea it was to basically put a fedora on Lennier for his outro. "Please can we do something with my character other than boring dedicated servant?" "Sure, Bill." A finger on the monkey's paw curls.
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Jun 2, 2023 18:52
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Grand Fromage posted:Not exactly. He said Mumy insisted that Lennier is secretly in love with Delenn and JMS was like "are you sure you want me to take this path?" and Mumy said yes, so JMS obliged. I don't think Mumy understood he was dealing with a D&D Wish spell situation. Doesn't sound so much as malicious compliance as much as "This is how people who have secret burning loves for people who don't love them back actually do". There's a reason it's a meme.
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Jun 2, 2023 19:10
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I'm not enjoying early season two on rewatch. Ivanova finally getting more to do is good, but I reckon thr Sheridan swap could have been more dramatically handled, and there's a run of meh episodes. This horror episode where Doctor Franklin tries to root his patient hours after she learned her husband died is particularly lame. I did get a big laugh at G'Kar telling this lady that she'd be better off loving back to 1999 or whatever. Dude has no chill. I reckon they should have depicted his come to Jakwan moment on screen though, instead of letting his breakthrough happen off screen and between seasons. Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jun 2, 2023 |
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Jun 2, 2023 19:13
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CainFortea posted:Doesn't sound so much as malicious compliance as much as "This is how people who have secret burning loves for people who don't love them back actually do". There's a reason it's a meme. Yeah, exactly. Mumy should have realized that it's TV and you can't just have A Thing like that hanging forever, it's going to have to be resolved.
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Jun 2, 2023 19:25
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The Lennier situation was already resolved by him essentially running away and joining a monastery. His betrayal happened literally in the final episode. Totally unnecessary. Well, not technically the final episode but you know what I mean.
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Jun 2, 2023 19:43
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Blindwatch thread is getting SPICY with dem preds
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Jun 3, 2023 21:50
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quote:My prediction for the end of the season: There is an apocalyptic battle with Earth where Sheridan is captured. The season ends with him in Clark's (and/or Bester's) hands and everyone else on Babylon 5 not knowing Sheridan's status. Garibaldi will possibly join in an attack against Babylon 5 or her forces. He’d’ve been right if not for the whole “will there be a season 5?” Drama/story compression.
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Jun 3, 2023 22:47
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Edit: how did this post get here?
A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Jun 4, 2023 |
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Jun 3, 2023 23:45
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Open Source Idiom posted:I'm not enjoying early season two on rewatch. Ivanova finally getting more to do is good, but I reckon thr Sheridan swap could have been more dramatically handled, and there's a run of meh episodes. This horror episode where Doctor Franklin tries to root his patient hours after she learned her husband died is particularly lame. Isn't the bit where he takes Dust and talks to a vision of his dead father (or a Vorlon posting as his dead father) his "come to G'Quan" moment?
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Jun 4, 2023 11:55
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V-Men posted:Isn't the bit where he takes Dust and talks to a vision of his dead father (or a Vorlon posting as his dead father) his "come to G'Quan" moment? Yes, it is, and it's explicitly Kosh. Dude liked to appear to people as their fathers, probably because he saw the role of the Vorlons as parental.
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Jun 4, 2023 14:52
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ozmunkeh posted:The Lennier situation was already resolved by him essentially running away and joining a monastery. His betrayal happened literally in the final episode. Totally unnecessary. Dramatically, that would have been unsatisfying IMO. Good drama should surprise, and be supported by the characters history. The “one ill-conceived second of misjudgment” is good storytelling. If lennier had just hosed off and sulked forever nobody would be talking about it. The fact that people still debate it means (IMO) it was the right thing to include.
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Jun 4, 2023 18:31
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Doctor Zero posted:Dramatically, that would have been unsatisfying IMO. Good drama should surprise, and be supported by the characters history. The “one ill-conceived second of misjudgment” is good storytelling. Yes, I think the point was that he made a single mistake of judgment, one which he thought better of in less than a minute, but which he was too late to repair. And that effectively erased all the good he had done prior to that point. The special tragedy is that Delenn would have forgiven him (Sheridan, perhaps in time), but that he can't forgive himself. And really, aside from any potential creepiness of the "pure and chaste from afar" trope, Lennier was arguably the least flawed character in the cast. Given how focused B5 was on flaws and second chances, this one moment situates him alongside everyone else; the twin problem is that it left the rest of his story hanging, and that it came so late that it didn't receive any development, either.
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Jun 4, 2023 23:43
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I realise their reactions have been 'divisive' at this point but the Babylon 5 for the First Time guys are hitting the season 3 triple-threat - they've just done S3E8 Messages from Earth. On patreon sometime midweek and at the weekend on YT it should be Point of No Return. I know these are favourites and thought I'd share.
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Jun 5, 2023 13:02
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Lennier’s abbreviated role in the last season didn’t do us any favors in making the betrayal seem natural, but I can see signs dating back a while. “Understanding is not required. Only obedience.” No, understanding absolutely WAS required; at the end of the day his obedience faltered because he was more an acolyte of Delenn herself than of her philosophy. (Interesting how Lennier was clumsily emulating Marcus’s nobility by joining the Rangers, when Marcus himself was clumsily emulating Sinclair’s sacrifice—even when the person he was sacrificing for didn’t want it.) “We may sometimes look like you, but we are NOT you.” Yeah, Lennier was not hearing what Delenn was really saying.
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Jun 5, 2023 15:11
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Narsham posted:Yes, I think the point was that he made a single mistake of judgment, one which he thought better of in less than a minute, but which he was too late to repair. And that effectively erased all the good he had done prior to that point. Vir is standing RIGHT there, dude!
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Jun 5, 2023 16:55
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:
I couldn't resist commenting on this blind watcher's post in the other thread. I don't think I said anything spoilery but I may have revealed something in a less vague way than I intended. If someone here thinks it's too close to the edge let me know and I'll blank it.
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Jun 8, 2023 03:54
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Lemniscate Blue posted:I couldn't resist commenting on this blind watcher's post in the other thread. I don't think I said anything spoilery but I may have revealed something in a less vague way than I intended. If someone here thinks it's too close to the edge let me know and I'll blank it. I think you're okay, but you'll want a second opinion.
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Jun 8, 2023 04:09
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Lemniscate Blue posted:I couldn't resist commenting on this blind watcher's post in the other thread. I don't think I said anything spoilery but I may have revealed something in a less vague way than I intended. The post in question: Lemniscate Blue posted:I am very fond of pointing out that this episode was originally intended as the season 4 finale, and conflicts with the network made a fifth season uncertain. As a result, certain plot threads had to be compressed drastically. I invite you to imagine waiting months for the resolution to a cliffhanger like this one. I think you're fine. I don't see how this spoils a drat thing.
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Jun 8, 2023 04:14
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Seems ok. In general if you aren't sure you're better off to play it cautiously.
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Jun 8, 2023 04:24
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Powered Descent posted:The post in question: Yeah, the only thing I was worried about was making it obvious that the war with Earth is going to be over by the time Season 4 ends.
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Jun 8, 2023 04:24
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No that's fine imo
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Jun 8, 2023 04:26
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Chevy Slyme needs to shut up, though.
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Jun 8, 2023 15:00
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Jedit posted:Chevy Slyme needs to shut up, though. I do?
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Jun 8, 2023 15:25
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Chevy Slyme posted:I do? There's so much foreshadowing in B5 and so many threads left open - purposefully or otherwise - that we shouldn't really be commenting on what is or is not important when one of the blind watchers wonders about it.
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Jun 8, 2023 18:42
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I think I am about to lose my Babylon 5 super fan card for this, but I watched in the beginning last weekend, and I think the rose tinted glasses shattered on this one. It was not as good as I remember it years ago. What I did like though was all of the sleazy political maneuvering of g’kar, and Lando, clearly trying to take advantage of a terrible situation, to benefit themselves. It really adds a lot of extra background to these two and how big of opportunists they are and have always been.
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Jun 9, 2023 02:18
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really? i think in the beginning is easily the best of the tv movies. what fell short for you on your rewatch?
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Jun 9, 2023 02:49
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lobster shirt posted:really? i think in the beginning is easily the best of the tv movies. what fell short for you on your rewatch? One of the things that dings it, for me anyway, is how contrived it gets in bringing certain characters together (especially because season 2 establishes that Sheridan and Franklin didn't know each other previously). There's also quite a bit of re-used footage from the series. It has its moments, like Londo narrating Earth's perseverance in the Minbari War, but it's lesser than the sum of its parts.
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Jun 9, 2023 02:54
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lobster shirt posted:really? i think in the beginning is easily the best of the tv movies. what fell short for you on your rewatch? The problem is that's not exactly the highest of praise. It's decent but not great while the rest of them ranged from middling to loving dire. I do love Londo's description of the humans' refusal to stop fighting though. Still gives me a lump in the throat.
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Jun 9, 2023 02:57
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In The Beginning is nice to give a lot more context to everything, but it's not particularly great as like a movie unto its own self as a unit. Not a strong throughline narrative, just kinda checking up on all the main series protags in the time before. Like if it was a really nice movie on its own, it wouldn't be as much of a problem that people accidentally try starting their series watch with it. Maybe it spoils a bit much about Minbari society that was only slowly built up in the show proper I guess, lobster shirt posted:really? i think in the beginning is easily the best of the tv movies. what fell short for you on your rewatch? Being the best of the B5 movies is a very low bar.
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Jun 9, 2023 03:00
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That's why I like Thirdspace. It's a stand-alone (mostly) episode about what if Bab5, but also Lovecraft. It's just goofy fun.
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Jun 9, 2023 03:20
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Rappaport posted:That's why I like Thirdspace. It's a stand-alone (mostly) episode about what if Bab5, but also Lovecraft. It's just goofy fun. Also, Sheridan gets to solve a problem by applying a Nuclear Weapon directly to it. Which is his favorite way to solve a problem.
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Jun 9, 2023 03:30
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lobster shirt posted:really? i think in the beginning is easily the best of the tv movies. what fell short for you on your rewatch? Ooh no doubt at all, it's for sure the best of the movies, but I think my problem is that I filled in a bunch of details over the years that never actually happened when the movie originally aired on TV. Hence the rose tinted glasses. I remember it being better narrated, with better action sequences then there were. Also, the Amazon digital release is 420p, and full screen, it is dog poo poo quality and really blurry on a 4K TV, but that is not a fault of the movie itself, but it still hurts watching it.
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Jun 9, 2023 03:54
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Chevy Slyme posted:Also, Sheridan gets to solve a problem by applying a Nuclear Weapon directly to it. Which is his favorite way to solve a problem. pulls out his map, which has nothing on it but an enormous arrow with HELL at the other end
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Jun 9, 2023 03:56
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Timby posted:It has its moments, like Londo narrating Earth's perseverance in the Minbari War, but it's lesser than the sum of its parts. This part is great. Though it's set at least 10 years after B5 and somehow things are still exploding on Centauri Prime and I'm confused why this is. If it's just for dramatic effect that's fine, just wondering.
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Jun 9, 2023 13:36
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SixFigureSandwich posted:This part is great. Though it's set at least 10 years after B5 and somehow things are still exploding on Centauri Prime and I'm confused why this is. If it's just for dramatic effect that's fine, just wondering. In the Beginning ends minutes before Sheridan’s Flash Forward in War Without End - there was clearly another ISA/Centauri conflict years after what we see on the show, (possibly incited by the whole “give your son this Jar with a keeper in it on his 16th birthday” bullshit Londo/the Drakh pulled), and in the course of that conflict, Sheridan and Delenn were captured, Londo was clearly cornered as his world was bombed, and then, he invited his old friend G’Kar to come kill him.
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Jun 9, 2023 13:59
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Been a couple decades since I read the novels but I think it's more of a civil war on Centauri Prime at that point.
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Jun 9, 2023 18:48
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https://twitter.com/straczynski/status/1667243664802717697?s=46
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