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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:The Connector's fun as a character but I feel like he exemplifies a lot of what I don't like about Omega - the constantly scaling power ceiling. Shen by contrast dominates while also being hyped but he's so hilariously overpowered that what is anyone supposed to do against him when he's intentionally weakening himself but dominating a character that should at least be Gensai's level?
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Jun 29, 2023 05:29
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I think my favorite fight in the Purgatory tournament was the Judo matchup. Jurota's ability to throw his opponent from virtually any contact is in the realm of fantasy, but it's the kinda fantasy that you can imagine about. He's vastly more skilled than Masaki but Masaki's special aptitude for pain + Purgatory rules (no killing) limiting his ability to inflict additional damage on Masaki + Jurota's weakness in other fields (because he devotes himself solely to throwing by choice) results in him losing. But it's still clear that Jurota is an incredibly strong dude and even Masaki acknowledges he only won cause the rules of Purgatory were in his favor. That's another thing that I feel like Omega doesn't do as well anymore - the whole looking good while losing. Jurota lost and still came out looking like a beast, but Lolong failed to do that despite all his hype. Carlos won like a bitch, Yumihagama got curbstomped without landing a single blow (he also has the excuse of the rules being against him but he still had a poo poo showing), Toa Muno was a 2-trick pony whose physical prowess didn't really matter cause all he did was spam his counter move, Alan Wu got ripped in half and then unceremoniously gets poo poo on even further when one of the other Wu Hei successors brings up the whole "he was the weakest among us" cliche (though all non-Edward successors turn out to be loving shitters themselves). Like yeah, Asura had characters lose their one match, but a bunch of them still come off lookin' pretty decent. Kaneda gets a great and emotional showing against Gaolong, Chiba loses to Hasumi but other fighters bring up that his bluff might have worked if he hadn't chosen the absolute worst option to attack Hasumi with. Adam and Haruo lose, but Cosmo's hosed up to high hell and it's clear Haruo's a superhuman who's lost his edge and true strength after being consumed by modern culture. The fisherman feels more imposing and threatening than like a good third of the fighters from Purgatory. And then there's Seki who loses 2/3 fights in Asura but still comes off looking amazing and loved by readers and the audience alike. I also really hated how two of the fights against Purgatory ended with Purgatory dudes abandoning their 'fake' style to reveal their 'true' style of going Advance / Divine Devil mode. I also personally think Divine Devil mode in general sucks rear end. loving blood throwing motherfucker.
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Jun 29, 2023 09:23
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Just to make it clear I still like Kengan Omega and its cast I just think it doesn't live up to the peaks (or even the lows) of Asura and also the Worm sucks dogshit.
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Jun 29, 2023 09:31
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Lolong was originally planned to go down in 1 hit which would’ve saved a lot of time I guess.
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Jun 29, 2023 11:20
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yum posted:Lolong was originally planned to go down in 1 hit which would’ve saved a lot of time I guess. Would have been much better for the story overall if he did. Having the whole thing be "purgatory was never on Kengan's actual level and just was eking out wins via "rules"" would have been fine for the overall story.
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Jun 29, 2023 11:23
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AtomikKrab posted:Would have been much better for the story overall if he did. Having the whole thing be "purgatory was never on Kengan's actual level and just was eking out wins via "rules"" would have been fine for the overall story. I'd prefer Purgatory not be a complete and total joke because in the previous series they were already known to be the 2nd biggest promotion after the Kengan Association. Even with a no-killing rule I would want Purtagory to have formidable fighter that posed an actual threat and didn't go out like chumps. I think there would be merit to having Purgatory be filled more with ex-military and public fighers like Jurota or Carlos compared to Kengan. The kind of fight group that appeals to people that were already good but wanted more out of their martial arts where people like Okubo or Gaolang were scouted by the KA specifically because they knew people associated with the association.
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Jun 29, 2023 11:54
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The biggest issue this arc has had is no Julius because he's the ultimate comedy relief of the series The other issue is that gensai is still far and away the strongest character we've met and either he beats the connector (my hope) and ohma beats yan. I also generally dislike how Shen wulong can do reverse advance/removal/whatever else with seemingly no problems. Gaoh dying and the building blowing up would be a very funny outcome to this arc Jose fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Jun 29, 2023 |
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Jun 29, 2023 11:58
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at this point I'd be surprised if gensai could even touch the connector, given how powerful he's shown to be. Even gensai ended up taking a hit or two in fights against people weaker than him, and shen's just effortlessly dodging everything a kuroki-level fighter is throwing at him
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Jun 29, 2023 12:40
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I just want to remind people as strong as gaoh is he is all 100
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Jun 29, 2023 12:58
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:I think my favorite fight in the Purgatory tournament was the Judo matchup. The Purgatory rules actually massively favored Jurota. It's just that Masaki was too important to be completely chumped, and the authors thought the dilemma you describe was too good to waste, so they conveniently memory-holed the rule that interfered with it (or they did a mid-tournament rule change and I just forgot). You say that Carlos won like a bitch, but how did he win? By throwing his opponent out of the ring! With that in mind, the biggest throwing genius in the world standing there in a tournament with a ring-out rule going "how do I beat a pain-resistant guy by throwing him without killing him" is kinda goofy. CharlestonJew posted:at this point I'd be surprised if gensai could even touch the connector, given how powerful he's shown to be. Even gensai ended up taking a hit or two in fights against people weaker than him, and shen's just effortlessly dodging everything a kuroki-level fighter is throwing at him I don't think Gaoh is anywhere near Kuroki level. He's tough, but he couldn't land a single clean hit on Ohma. Feels more like a mid-tier Annihilation Tournament fighter, but with the catch that he's not fighting under any rules and has absolutely zero interest in clean fair fistfights, so there's always the possibility he can pull something tricky on someone who's more powerful than him in a straight-up fight.
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Jun 29, 2023 14:59
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I think the explanation of Carlos luring Gaolang into a trap by taking advantage of the idea that Kengan fighters aren't used to and have little awareness of ring out rules eats a lot of poo poo when the premise was both of the guys in question are champion boxers and the latter whom, if memory serves, makes only very rare appearances in underground combat circuits in the first place.
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Jun 29, 2023 15:06
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I just reread the Carlos fight and it's still incredibly stupid. Even if Carlos had just lost, it'd be totally fine, but they made it so stupid.
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Jun 29, 2023 16:05
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Carlos showed us the true strength of a 98 pound weakling...
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Jun 29, 2023 16:38
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This is getting fairly silly even for Kengan honestly. Sorry, there's no muscle magic to nosell punches from a dude who outweighs you by like 50+ pounds. This series was better about this sort of thing before- even if it did sorta make the tiny guys do magic to hit like 10 weightclasses higher.
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Jun 29, 2023 17:05
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dude this entire series + prequel is entirely about muscle magic. We even have a guy who can control each of his individual muscle fibres to such a degree he's able to generate force just by flexing
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Jun 29, 2023 17:12
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I, for one, am glad to see "The Connector", Shen Wulong go entirely limp in the brain
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Jun 29, 2023 17:14
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Just to make it clear I still like Kengan Omega and its cast I just think it doesn't live up to the peaks (or even the lows) of Asura and also the Worm sucks dogshit. "The Worm sucks dogshit" is kind of an enormous problem because they're the primary focus of the entire series.
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Jun 29, 2023 17:16
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Vizuyos posted:The Purgatory rules actually massively favored Jurota. It's just that Masaki was too important to be completely chumped, and the authors thought the dilemma you describe was too good to waste, so they conveniently memory-holed the rule that interfered with it (or they did a mid-tournament rule change and I just forgot). Jurota wouldn't toss Masaki out because Jurota does not want to win that way at all. This is a guy who, after beating everyone in the judo world and found no one worthy of being his rival, pretty much gave up on the idea of having a good ol' fashioned judo fight until he saw this kid and became convinced that he'd grow up to give him the fight he was looking for. Even when Masaki (the original) turned out to be crazy and killed his father & fellow disciples, Jurota thought, "Yeah, he'll pop up again sometime" and still continued to hone his craft. And despite the original Masaki dying in Asura, Jurota's patience was still rewarded when he got to fight Masaki (the clone) in the Purgatory vs Kengan tournament. Why would he want to ring out Masaki? Why would he want to end the fight he's been looking forward to for literally 2+ decades by tossing out his glorious rival out the ring? There'd be no point in that. It ain't goofy at all, it's Jurota being true to his desires. He has a very specific way he wants to win. With judo, not with ring-outs.That's why the Purgatory rule of no killing was so unfavorable for him. Most people would get knocked unconscious after repeated throws, but Masaki is literally born different and can keep getting back up. So Jurota has to deliberately weaken his throws so they don't end up killing Masaki, and it's hard to fight while restraining yourself. Hell, even if they were operating on Kengan rules, Jurota might not have wanted to kill Masaki anyways. Masaki was still far from the peak potential that Jurota envisioned - Jurota probably wanted Masaki to grow even stronger so they'd be on a more even footing in the future.
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Jun 29, 2023 17:23
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Gaoh going "lucky me" when he notices that Wulong is just toying with him and was never serious at all is so pathetic lol. All those decades of preparation and he still is counting on him loving up.
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Jun 29, 2023 17:24
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Kengan has always had bizarre martial arts and body feats. The second fight of the tournament was between Ohma and Inaba, a guy who can control his hair and uses it as a weapon. Another fighter is a blind man who was one of the most dangerous fighters in the whole tourney. I honestly have less an issue with Shen being able to hold himself back, but I do roll my eyes at the idea that he can shut his brain down in parts to accomplish that because all the other physiological stuff would fall in line with other established feats. Between Julias, Bando, Adam and Wakatsuki I can 100% believe someone with supreme control of their body could intentionally move tendons and reduce joint flexibility while still demonstrating monstrous strength The problem is that Shen doesn't exist in a vacuum and Omega's writing, fight choreography, and overall execution make it far less forgivable than I'd have taken a lot of things in Asura. And after the fiasco that was Eddy Wu I'm not holding my breath that another character that by all accounts is "too strong to win" won't also get chumped out when this is all said and done.
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Jun 29, 2023 17:32
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Jurota wouldn't toss Masaki out because Jurota does not want to win that way at all. Jurota spent 20 years perfecting throwing people, but ignored literally everything else Judo has to offer on a professional and technical level. He doesn't use holds, blows, or locks and that is why he lost. Just tossing people in Purgatory headfirst into the ground until they give up I guess and that makes even less sense since submissions would be far more suited to Purgatory rules. His swing throw should have been his equivalent to Gensai's Devil's lance. A move he's polished that has high effectiveness but ultimately is just one of many moves he can use to achieve victory. Carlos also suffers from the terrible writing of Omega because he should have been written as originally intended to just be a better boxer and not some guy that spent 20 minutes on a Capoeira app and cut any weight which severely reduced his damage output.
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Jun 29, 2023 18:16
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Jun 29, 2023 19:06
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yum posted:dude this entire series + prequel is entirely about muscle magic. We even have a guy who can control each of his individual muscle fibres to such a degree he's able to generate force just by flexing having done a reread of omega i think people really need to accept this is all true
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Jun 29, 2023 20:53
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I like how the 3d panel is unchanged.
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Jun 29, 2023 20:53
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muscle magic sucks when it's just "is more powerful" like ohmas thing or the kures. or everything about the niko style. muscle magic is cool when you have so many muscles they all spin at the spin time. and also when you can control your hair freely. or when your head is impossibly strong
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Jun 29, 2023 23:16
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muscle magic is ridiculous and cool, I just wish the power scaling wasn't quite so insane. This fight should not be as one-sided as it currently is
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Jun 29, 2023 23:48
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Jurota wouldn't toss Masaki out because Jurota does not want to win that way at all. Maybe if the fight that he'd been looking forward to for 2+ decades was more interesting than "he throws a guy a bunch of times, realizes that the guy's immune to throwing, and then throws the guy another dozen times while Rolon reminds us every three pages that he's supposed to be an awesome throwing genius". It's no Cosmo vs Ohma, that's for sure. And Kengan needs the fights to be awesome in order to ward off the cringe. If someone has a lovely fight, then you realize their muscle magic is bullshit or somebody's backstory is "he won too many judo tournaments and then spent twenty-some years obsessed with a kid he saw at a middle school judo competition once", and then it just feels even worse.
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Jun 30, 2023 01:54
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Brought To You By posted:My problem with Jurota is simply that he was written poorly as a man who wanted to refine his Judo. Kengan has specialist characters but compare Gaolang or Gensai to Jurota and you can see the dip in writing. Gaolang is a striking specialist but he can and will use any part of his body owing to his mastery of Muay Thai and boxing. Gensai is a defense specialist that uses Okinawan Karate as his base and he pulls out all the stops across the KAT to the point people commented that his karate was "unusually complete" or something to that effect. I can accept his throw obsession the same way I can accept and worship Seki's no-guarding gimmick - it's a part of a personal creed. That's manly as gently caress in its own way. Jurota knows he's limiting himself but he choses to do so anyways because he has decided that he wants to be the throw guy. Like yeah the manga equating judo = throwing and nothing else may be at odds with what judo actually is in real life, but that's not a Jurota thing, that's an author thing. Jurota isn't poorly written, judo is improperly represented. Also it's not like he perfected his craft for the purpose of getting into Purgatory, he just happened to join Purgatory instead of Kengan.
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Jun 30, 2023 01:54
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I would be ok with almost any development if the fight choreography as still as good as Asura, but it's so much worse to me now (especially after the Purgatory tournament).
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Jun 30, 2023 02:33
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:I can accept his throw obsession the same way I can accept and worship Seki's no-guarding gimmick - it's a part of a personal creed. That's manly as gently caress in its own way. Jurota knows he's limiting himself but he choses to do so anyways because he has decided that he wants to be the throw guy quote:Like yeah the manga equating judo = throwing and nothing else may be at odds with what judo actually is in real life, but that's not a Jurota thing, that's an author thing. Jurota isn't poorly written, judo is improperly represented. quote:Also it's not like he perfected his craft for the purpose of getting into Purgatory, he just happened to join Purgatory instead of Kengan. Even Agito had to stop loving around with Gaolang, admit he couldn't win with boxing, and go all out to scape up a win. Because that's what a better written 2nd seat in Purgatory would have done. Then setting up that Lolong must really be a monster if he can consistently beat someone like Jurota who should have soundly thrashed Hayami.
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Jun 30, 2023 03:41
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the entire situation with meguro is still dumb as poo poo. all that time and effort spent on reproducing a bottom tier kengan fighter and for what? the result could only win a match because his opponent spontaneously forgot the rules.
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Jun 30, 2023 04:46
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Scallop Eyes posted:I would be ok with almost any development if the fight choreography as still as good as Asura, but it's so much worse to me now (especially after the Purgatory tournament).
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Jun 30, 2023 10:19
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:the entire situation with meguro is still dumb as poo poo. all that time and effort spent on reproducing a bottom tier kengan fighter and for what? the result could only win a match because his opponent spontaneously forgot the rules. yeah, I don't know why you would want to Huishang OG Meguro's memories into the clone. The recordings were also just Meguro's mad rantings about wanting to murder people. Very questionable since the point was to reproduce OG Meguro without his madness... so why would you need his memories for that? It's not like you could reproduce the technical or actual learning aspect, especially not through voice recordings, just have Mr clone learn judo on his own.
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Jun 30, 2023 11:00
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:I can accept his throw obsession the same way I can accept and worship Seki's no-guarding gimmick - it's a part of a personal creed. That's manly as gently caress in its own way. Jurota knows he's limiting himself but he choses to do so anyways because he has decided that he wants to be the throw guy. I don't think this is a good comparison. Seki doesn't guard as part of his fighting style, but he utilizes his full repertoire of maneuvers to win his fights. Jurota's "I will only throw them" thing is like if Seki built his entire fighting style around DDTs and refused to do anything but DDTs and then everyone called it pro wrestling, or if Gaolang used nothing but right hooks and refused to do anything but right hooks and everyone called it boxing.
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Jun 30, 2023 13:20
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Jurota is the Zenitsu of Kengan Omega
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Jun 30, 2023 21:19
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Hmmm, 60 bucks for all of Kengan Ashura in ebook format ain't bad, yeah? That's like a bit more than 2 bucks a volume.
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Jul 3, 2023 07:14
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i just read the chapters for free when they're available on the official site for it and now 4pm on a wednesday is seared into my brain because otherwise i'll miss it being available for free on proper channels
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Jul 3, 2023 15:10
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I'd be getting the actual volumes (with the author notes and 4-komas and all), and have the ability to read it offline (like when I'm on a plane or whatever). I also wouldn't be reliant on daily limitations. Only big issue is that the volumes would be in Korean, and having read the free volume 1 loaner, it sorta loses the charm that the English version had.
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Jul 4, 2023 01:58
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I’d probably buy KA for $100 if I could get it on real ebooks. If the TL isn’t as good, that’s a bummer, though.
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Jul 4, 2023 02:35
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Normally I'd pick it up instantly but I just bought all of FMA and 17 volumes of Arslan for around KRW 70,000 last month so spending around that same amount for 27 volumes of Kengan sorta feels less like a bargain. Especially since I'm gonna be buying Ramen Daisuki Koizumi-san when it goes on sale later this month too... It's also annoying because the app I'm using to buy Kengan doesn't let me buy it - it's for ages 19 and up, so if I want to buy it I need to buy it via browser and then download my library on my app. Cause Google's restrictions or whatever. Alternatively I install some Korea-only app store and then use that app store to install a version of the app that does allow for 19+ content that's not bound by Google's restrictions.
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Jul 4, 2023 04:06
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