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Seemlar posted:I'd preorder but I think I'd want to know first whether they fixed those couple of episodes that had problems like missing footage when the remaster was released to streaming I believe they fixed that fairly quick, didn't they?
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Jul 19, 2023 12:03
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If they wanted an actiony battle image I'm sure they could have found one with the titular station in it, what a weird pick for the cover.
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Jul 19, 2023 12:47
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exec intrusion?
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Jul 19, 2023 13:15
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I believe they fixed that fairly quick, didn't they? Just searching now it looks like it was a specific streamer problem, HBO and Apple fixed it, Amazon never did
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Jul 19, 2023 14:42
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 Just gonna leave this here for F_Shit_Fitzgerald when they're done with the show and join us here beyond the rim.
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Jul 19, 2023 17:51
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It's going to destroy him. Silv really is up there with the best ending episodes ever.
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Jul 19, 2023 20:49
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I think the last time I watched SiL was before Katsulas died and I'm not looking forward to how it would hit now.
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Jul 19, 2023 20:52
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I want to buy that blu-ray set, but $135 is a big ask, on top of already having numerous red flags; zero details about what it actually includes (other than the 5 seasons obviously), and this is a petty nitpick, but that box cover does not instill confidence. In comparison you can buy all five seasons on Amazon Prime Video for $50 total.
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Jul 19, 2023 21:30
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Waiting for the details seems wise. I'm in for now, but not in enough to preorder. I mean it has to be an upgrade over the DVDs, though, right?
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Jul 20, 2023 03:02
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i believe JMS has said it's going go be similar to the HBO remaster but with a greater bitrate and while WB wanted to include commentaries, there wasn't time. unclear if that meant the old commentaries, JMS's patreon ones, or new ones. it doesn't seem like it'll have any bonus materials.
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Jul 20, 2023 03:54
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Winifred Madgers posted:Waiting for the details seems wise. I'm in for now, but not in enough to preorder. I mean it has to be an upgrade over the DVDs, though, right? And there is still plenty of time to wait too. With Amazon, you're not charged until the product ships.
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Jul 20, 2023 04:15
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Horizon Burning posted:i believe JMS has said it's going go be similar to the HBO remaster but with a greater bitrate and while WB wanted to include commentaries, there wasn't time. unclear if that meant the old commentaries, JMS's patreon ones, or new ones. it doesn't seem like it'll have any bonus materials. I'm told it's been confirmed that the Blus will have the Amazon remasters. No commentaries, no TV movies, but the pilot will be included.
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Jul 20, 2023 09:22
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Fingers crossed some ships from Space Above and Beyond make it onto DVD menus.
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Jul 20, 2023 09:58
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Jedit posted:I'm told it's been confirmed that the Blus will have the Amazon remasters. No commentaries, no TV movies, but the pilot will be included. It's always two steps forward, one step back, isn't it? And what in the world is going on with that box art.
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Jul 20, 2023 12:33
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Seemlar posted:Just searching now it looks like it was a specific streamer problem, HBO and Apple fixed it, Amazon never did Jedit posted:I'm told it's been confirmed that the Blus will have the Amazon remasters. No commentaries, no TV movies, but the pilot will be included. I mean, I'm hoping they fixed it before printing the discs, but the fact that it doesn't sound like it's a Deluxe Package With All The Goodies (We Finally Even Paid Harlan Ellison's Estate) is unfortunate.
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Jul 20, 2023 12:57
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I have nothing that plays Blurays anyway, money saved. 
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Jul 20, 2023 13:23
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Narsham posted:To repeat, even if B5's outer hull is heavily armored, there's a large number of INTERIOR walls with are not going to be thick-skinned. The comment I responded to was "There's definitely a reason why projectile weapons are not used in space - they could puncture the outer hull," and the relevant JMS statements that I've seen (but can't find in a quick search) are also about breaching the hull. A concern about INTERIOR walls is not a concern about the HULL. Further, I just watched that episode today, and the INTERIOR walls in that particular scene look quite thick-skinned to me. They look like bulkheads and solid structural walls rather than light 'drywall-like' walls that we see in other places, something that would stop a bullet quite handily. Also I explicitly mentioned weapons effects on INTERIOR walls, though with the context of real material properties. quote:The dark servant in "The Long Dark" is no more a First One than a Drahk or a telepath. I never claimed that it was a First One, I deliberately chose the phrase "First One level opponent". JMS describes it as "Shadow servant. Soldier of darkness. Not a shadow, but a good, close friend of same." I think calling something that the Shadows use as infantry forces a "First One level threat" is completely reasonable in the context of the show. quote:The evidence we have is what is on screen and what JMS says. That's all we have. PPGs do not exist, and have no "real" properties whatsoever. The thrusters on a White Star move it at the speed of plot. And so on. If you want to discuss what you imagine to be "real" in the B5 universe while ignoring both the creator and the available evidence on-screen, then I guess have fun with that, but there's no point in having a discussion with you about it at that stage. We also have all of real world physics available to us. But you're correct, if you don't want to involve any real physical properties related to human bodies, ship hulls, internal walls, heat, or the like in the discussion of PPGs, then the discussion is pointless. I don't choose to treat the series as completely divorced from all real world physics, especially since it goes out of its way to include things like Newtonian motion for non-grav-drive ships, but that's certainly a reasonable way to approach watching a show, just not one consistent with talking about whether a particular weapon system is reasonable (or better/worse than what could be done in the real world, or anything along those lines). McSpanky posted:Citation needed. The only part we know for sure is armored are the blast shutters they closed over C&C during combat which protected from a disabled fighter collision in "Severed Dreams". Notably, a similar potential collision against the broad side of the station was considered a "shoot it down, screw first contact" emergency previously in "Soul Hunter". Look if you really think that the only part of Babylon 5 is armored strongly enough to withstand a pistol bullet are the blast shutters at C&C and that the inches-thick hull shown when looking at viewports in episodes like the Long Dark would be penetrated by a handgun, I think your baseline of what's reasonable is too far out for a discussion. McSpanky posted:That's not the kind of fidelity that's being discussed here. Pantaloon Pontiff is asserting that the VFX of PPG blasts are not an accurate reflection of their intended function. Anyone who's read even a few pages of the Lurker's Guide would know that's patently absurd. No, I asserted that the special effects of the aftereffects of PPG blasts on background objects are not consistent with other stated and shown properties of PPGs. The shots I'm thinking of use only practical effects (an actual fire burning so that a wall appears to be on fire, or blackened marks around a hole left in clothing by a PPG, for example) and not VFX (which would involve computer aided video to add fire to a scene without fire) as far as I am aware. Special effects of background damage often receive less attention than foreground, and practical effects of fires burning often use a small, controlled fire because it's much easier to set up and film near than it would be to film with a larger fire or one that's actually burning up the materials that make up a set. I don't believe that effects, especially minor background effects, generally reflect the exact properties of events that happen in a movie or TV show, effects are often limited by artistic, economic, and practical decisions. For a similar case, in The War Prayer we see the Minbari poet get stabbed, but there isn't much blood compared to what a human would bleed in that situation. It would be possible to argue that this indicates that Minbari have more advanced clotting than humans based on that... but in Shadow Dancing, Dr. Franklin also gets stabbed and also doesn't bleed as much as a real human would. So my conclusion would be that the special effects (not VFX in either case) are just following the usual TV and Movie practice of using a small amount of fake blood to indicate bleeding, rather than a more realistic amount that would also draw focus away from the actors and be harder to work with on-set. You could of course argue that knives in Babylon 5 simply don't cause as much bleeding when someone is stabbed as the knives we use in real life, and like Narsham stick to only on-screen evidence without involving real world factors, but I don't do that and don't think it's a really useful position to take. There's also the problem that the special effects do support the idea that PPGs start fires and we don't see the fires left unattended for very long, so I'm not even sure why anyone would argue against my belief that PPGs can start fires and melt insulation, but this is the internet.
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Jul 21, 2023 03:59
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Pantaloon Pontiff posted:I never claimed that it was a First One, I deliberately chose the phrase "First One level opponent". JMS describes it as "Shadow servant. Soldier of darkness. Not a shadow, but a good, close friend of same." I think calling something that the Shadows use as infantry forces a "First One level threat" is completely reasonable in the context of the show. There are two confrontations we see with First Ones that are outside their ships. The Shadows were easily shot down by Londo's guards, whereas the entire B5 security staff was only able to take on a Vorlon because they had a part of a Vorlon augmented by Lorien on their side. So I'm not sure that the phrase "First One level threat" really means anything.
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Jul 21, 2023 04:32
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The Shadows have a good trick at being invisible but otherwise they seem like just normal organisms, unless there's some tricks we haven't seen. The Vorlons have so many tricks built into their bodies, they can turn into energy and project psychic images, but they are also always wearing their encounter suits that probably make them tougher (although they can still be poisoned right trough the suit. You'd think Garibaldi would try that). Presumably Vorlons may have reengineered themselves to have extra "features", but maybe there's something weirder and extra that the First Ones got into, some kind of cosmic power. Lorien we know fiddles around with Sheridan's life force after he...picks him up after he jumps away from the nuke, and that scene also depicts him as a giant orb of energy holding Sheridan in the air, which I think implies that there's also a whole lot more to him that his corporeal body is just a mask on top of.
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Jul 21, 2023 05:15
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SlothfulCobra posted:The Shadows have a good trick at being invisible but otherwise they seem like just normal organisms, unless there's some tricks we haven't seen. The Vorlons have so many tricks built into their bodies, they can turn into energy and project psychic images, but they are also always wearing their encounter suits that probably make them tougher (although they can still be poisoned right trough the suit. You'd think Garibaldi would try that). Presumably Vorlons may have reengineered themselves to have extra "features", but maybe there's something weirder and extra that the First Ones got into, some kind of cosmic power. Given that the Shadows produced technomage technology it is really fascinating that beyond their invisibility, they display no signs of exceptional personal capabilities, aside from several of them being able to tear Kosh apart. Presumably they’re very strong, but not tremendously tough. Heck, IIRC Morden uses a device to break into Kosh’s quarters, so his Shadow buddies can’t even do that. There do appear to be very few Vorlons, though, in comparison to the Shadows. This now makes me realize a huge sleight-of-hand during Into the Fire. We know Vorlons sometimes occupy their warships, but part of the “fun” of the Shadow vessels is that they have one, non-Shadow pilot and no crew, meaning the “knock over the anthill” people don’t even fight their own wars any more. Presumably their Deathcloud has a few Shadows in residence, but there’s barely any Shadows present for that big fight, and of course most Vorlons are probably still on their homeworld. The episode manages to make the withdrawal of the two fleets stand in for both species completely withdrawing from the galaxy, despite the fact that there might be just a handful of Shadows present during the fight.
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Jul 21, 2023 15:36
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I know it would be contradictory to what's outright stated in the show, but it would actually make sense if the majority of both the Shadows and Vorlons had already gone beyond, and the only ones remaining were a handful of revanchists and gently caress-ups who still thought they had something to prove. It would explain all the proxy-ing, be a good reveal, and would otherwise be consistent with the show's attempts to show that races are not uniform, have factions/differences of opinion, etc. The concept of an "evil" race (a holdover from the JRRT influences I'm sure) ultimately didn't fully jibe with the themes of the show, and the sudden repentance after the First Ones tell them they both hosed up doesn't quite redeem it. A terrific source of drama, though.
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Jul 21, 2023 19:56
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How weird would it be if the reason B5 is getting a BR release now is because David Zaslav is a big fan who was fed up of only having crappy NTSC DVD sets?
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Jul 21, 2023 20:54
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Narsham posted:Given that the Shadows produced technomage technology it is really fascinating that beyond their invisibility, they display no signs of exceptional personal capabilities, aside from several of them being able to tear Kosh apart. Presumably they’re very strong, but not tremendously tough. Heck, IIRC Morden uses a device to break into Kosh’s quarters, so his Shadow buddies can’t even do that. There do appear to be very few Vorlons, though, in comparison to the Shadows. It could either be that the Shadows didn't really modify themselves much so that they need "external" tools more than the Vorlons, or that being invisible compromises other defenses. Narsham posted:part of the “fun” of the Shadow vessels is that they have one, non-Shadow pilot and no crew, meaning the “knock over the anthill” people don’t even fight their own wars any more. Usually they don't plan on fighting their own wars, they want to put a thumb on the scales of the younger races to help them get some wars rolling, but the Vorlons pushed directly towards coordinating the races to fight the shadows directly.
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Jul 22, 2023 00:19
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SlothfulCobra posted:It could either be that the Shadows didn't really modify themselves much so that they need "external" tools more than the Vorlons, or that being invisible compromises other defenses. Also remember that Kosh didn't fight back. The Shadows might not even be all that strong.
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Jul 22, 2023 01:16
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usenet celeb 1992 posted:The concept of an "evil" race (a holdover from the JRRT influences I'm sure) ultimately didn't fully jibe with the themes of the show, and the sudden repentance after the First Ones tell them they both hosed up doesn't quite redeem it. A terrific source of drama, though. Part of the big revelation of season four is realizing that the Shadows aren't as bad as they seem, and the Vorlons aren't as good -- it seems that way because the Vorlons' side won the last war, and history is written by the victors. Neither side are really "evil" or "good", they're both just using the younger races to play out a philosophical conflict that went way out of control into an endless proxy war.
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Jul 22, 2023 05:50
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McSpanky posted:Part of the big revelation of season four is realizing that the Shadows aren't as bad as they seem Is it the Day of the Dead again? Because I’m pretty sure this is Morden’s alt.
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Jul 22, 2023 14:02
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McSpanky posted:Part of the big revelation of season four is realizing that the Shadows aren't as bad as they seem, and the Vorlons aren't as good -- it seems that way because the Vorlons' side won the last war, and history is written by the victors. Neither side are really "evil" or "good", they're both just using the younger races to play out a philosophical conflict that went way out of control into an endless proxy war. Oh yeah, absolutely true, it's just the idea that, even in that regard, each race is depicted as more or less uniform in their thinking (Kosh was an exception of course but we never know if he even represented a substantial faction anymore -- certainly he was grossly outnumbered in the end by the lovely Vorlons).
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Jul 22, 2023 16:37
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The Shadows also eat poo poo from a couple of Centauri PPG's, and got blindsided completly by Londo's plan to blow the island their base was on. They're a clever people, but they rely on deception and mythos to make themselves look more powerful than they are.
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Jul 24, 2023 12:29
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It does make you wonder how Kosh died so quickly to two Shadows, when Sheridan and Co had quite a bit of difficulty killing off new Kosh while the Shadows die quickly to ppg blasts or equivalent. I guess he could have fought back but that might have punctured a hole in the station in the process.
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Jul 24, 2023 12:54
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Eighties ZomCom posted:It does make you wonder how Kosh died so quickly to two Shadows, when Sheridan and Co had quite a bit of difficulty killing off new Kosh while the Shadows die quickly to ppg blasts or equivalent. I guess he could have fought back but that might have punctured a hole in the station in the process. Lorien specifically said that the Shadows had an easier time of it because they're also First Ones
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Jul 24, 2023 12:59
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Robustness of plot
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Jul 24, 2023 13:12
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The Shadows and Vorlons have been waging a cold war for thousands of years, maybe all Shadow agents carry a metaphorical broadsword +5 against Vorlons at all times? But it does make more sense that Kosh had his own reasons for perishing.
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Jul 24, 2023 13:37
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Kosh wasn't fighting back because he knew his life was the price to pay for breaking the detente between the Vorlons and the Shadows.
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Jul 24, 2023 14:39
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Easier to attack then to defend. Especially when you're naked. edit: I guess part of the deal might be that Ulkesh was sent to be ready for a fight, while Kosh was just a namby pamby love and feelings Vorlon. I think the Vorlons initially were even hiding their identities to work in secret at the time, presumably "vorlon" is not the name they were known by during the days of the First Ones, or during the days of the first Shadow war. SlothfulCobra fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Jul 24, 2023 |
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Jul 24, 2023 14:50
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ultrafilter posted:Kosh wasn't fighting back because he knew his life was the price to pay for breaking the detente between the Vorlons and the Shadows. This. Earlier in the episode when Sheridan deliberately pisses off Kosh the station control registers a massive "non-localized" energy surge, and Kosh was just smacking down an uppity human. If he'd wanted to he could have put up one hell of a fight.
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Jul 24, 2023 15:33
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I believe the second book of the Technomage trilogy includes Kosh's death from his point of view. From memory, he doesn't fight back, the Shadows are worried about why he isn't fighting back (wondering if it's a trap), and the damage they do to him involves introducing disorder into his essence. I think it mentions energy tendrils from their eyes?
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Jul 24, 2023 15:59
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He was also a bit weaker since he put part of himself into Sheridan just seconds before. But yeah, I think it's mostly the "I am willing to sacrifice myself for this." I guess he COULD have fought back, but maybe doing so (since he's all energy-based and whatnot) would have had the potential to damage parts of the ship/other ambassadors' living quarters. Because otherwise, I don't get WHY he felt the need to sacrifice himself. DrBouvenstein fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Jul 24, 2023 |
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Jul 24, 2023 16:13
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Just finished Sleeping In Light, so I'm saying goodbye to the Blind Watch thread and migrating here. I know that there's only so much exposition you can cram into a finale but I really wish we could have gotten a better sense of Centauri Prime and David Sheridan's fates. Also Lyta erasure in the toast scene. She wasn't even mentioned.
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Jul 24, 2023 16:13
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There's a series of novels detailing what happened to Centauri Prime. I don't think they're in print any more but there's probably a summary out there somewhere.
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Jul 24, 2023 16:19
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Just finished Sleeping In Light, so I'm saying goodbye to the Blind Watch thread and migrating here. Your writups have been great and if you look back through this thread you can see many people have discussed your viewpoints. In fact... sebmojo posted:sleeping in light is just going to wreck FSF, goddam
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Jul 24, 2023 16:37
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