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Justin Credible posted:Man alive I thought that morose babyface was gonna do the most quoted line with the Abyss. So he says a slightly less known/parroted one and I'm like.. hmm, bad but better than the alt.. oh. You're just going to say them both on top of each other. God drat it's so badly written lmao in one draft i'm certain rosie came back with something like "interesting that you quote nietzche. i'm reminded of a quote by the brilliant jewish physicist einstein..."
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Mar 18, 2024 23:55
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I believe it was Abraham Lincoln who said "The masters of the air were the America's trying to become a better place we met along the way."
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Mar 18, 2024 23:57
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It's still haunting me how ineffective the concentration camp scene was. Is that a me problem?
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Mar 19, 2024 00:02
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:It's still haunting me how ineffective the concentration camp scene was. Is that a me problem? What's the difference between a ten minute long sequence affecting a single person versus an entire 50 minute episode laser focused on the subject matter like BOB Episode 9?
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Mar 19, 2024 00:05
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Probably because of how contrived it is. Plus Rosie is going through there after the people have been cleared out and it's just bodies, so you don't get the human element that was there for BoB. I think it's also because the trope has been done so many times by now. Ever since BoB came out, every WWII movie wants their holocaust scene. It was also kind of natural how it was brought up in BoB even if not how it really happened. They are doing their patrol through the forest and come across a camp full of starving people and we learn about it organically. In this show, it's just a stop on the road tour through destroyed Germany. "Ah yes, here is where they killed jews. We conveniently need to wait for a wagon, feel free to check it out"
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Mar 19, 2024 00:07
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I wonder what made them decide that a D-Day scene was unnecessary but the most daytime-television-safe holocaust scene of all time was worth ten minutes. Like that was less impactful to me than watching Magneto destroy Auschwitz
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Mar 19, 2024 00:14
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How would a downed airman actually get back to England in 1943? Would it have even been that possible to get back so quickly?
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Mar 19, 2024 00:27
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Don't they say in the show? I thought they said they were going to get those guys to Spain or something where they could then just get a ride back to England.
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Mar 19, 2024 00:31
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Yeah, and Rosie runs Crosby through every step of his journey when they're catching up after his return. The Bucks we don't get the details, but I think it would have been redundant explaining after Rosie had done so earlier.
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Mar 19, 2024 00:38
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You can also take the train into occupied France, which leads directly to Thorpe Abbots
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Mar 19, 2024 00:46
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The POW camp liberation scene was pretty dumb. First, typically the guards would either just walk away once it was clear the Allied army was coming, surrender to the army, or even surrender to their own prisoners. The writing was on the wall in April 1945 and the attitude was much closer to the guys in Holland standing around at their flak guns doing nothing. Secondly, they weren't doing mass executions of western allied POWs which thirdly, they got into the machine gun tower and then didn't kill the guy there? Also the machine gunner fired an MG-42 into a crowd and seemingly hit nobody, with a weapon notorious for cutting people in half. Speaking firing machine guns into a crowd, a P-51 probably is not going to try and strafe a POW camp with a ton of people standing around, .50 caliber bullets overpenetrate concrete let alone wooden shacks and tents. I understand narrative needs but that was just excessive.
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Mar 19, 2024 00:55
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Hmm, kind of a wet fart in a lot of parts that werent in the sky im sorry to say, but the show has reminded me how good The Great Escape and Stalag 17 are, so 2.5 thumbs up (out of 5 thumbs total)
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Mar 19, 2024 01:33
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I wonder what made them decide that a D-Day scene was unnecessary but the most daytime-television-safe holocaust scene of all time was worth ten minutes. Becase D-day on the volume would look like poo poo compared to what they already did, twice.
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Mar 19, 2024 02:44
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Eason the Fifth posted:Hmm, kind of a wet fart in a lot of parts that werent in the sky im sorry to say, but the show has reminded me how good The Great Escape and Stalag 17 are, so 2.5 thumbs up (out of 5 thumbs total) Yeah it feels like a throwback. It's been a long time since WW2 POW camps were depicted.
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Mar 19, 2024 02:47
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I'm still kinda amazed that they got the CGI for the bombing wrong in a show about bombers.
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Mar 19, 2024 02:50
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The final episode was better than the previous one, but my god the inclusion of the Tuskegee Airmen was a waste. They do almost nothing in this final episode and we don't get a sendoff for them like we do with the other pilots. The editing was also weird during that POW camp fight at the end, because one second we see a lone P-51 strafing the camp defenses, but then a second later there is an entire tank column like 1000 yards away shooting at the camp all of a sudden?
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Mar 19, 2024 02:51
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It's a loving mess
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Mar 19, 2024 03:46
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This thread is my solace. I'm in a BoB/The Pacific group on FB that's primarily for memes and I feel insane with how much love the show is getting
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Mar 19, 2024 04:09
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Maybe get some professional help if your solace is misery? It's been a long time since we've had a Playtone/Amblin WW2 series, and sheer production goes a long way to creating an enjoyable entertainment product. I feel like it had a decently promising first half, but fell apart a bit as it got into all sorts of weeds in the back half. I don't think the end sum of it all is bad, but it definitely fumbled the ball a bit. I had relatively leveled expectations going into it compared to others though, I feel. Some people are just happy to watch nazis getting their end, myself included. Maybe there wasn't enough of it with this series, but I'll still take what I can get.
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Mar 19, 2024 05:08
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M_Gargantua posted:I'm still kinda amazed that they got the CGI for the bombing wrong in a show about bombers. I'm kind of amazed they got the loving bombers wrong in a show about bombers.
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Mar 19, 2024 05:23
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Like really. No G variants at all. I'm half surprised the Red Tails weren't flying around in P-82s with B canopies and Allison engines.
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Mar 19, 2024 05:25
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Its one things to get the major props wrong when you're borrowing the few remaining real life versions for filming. Its another entirely when you make them from scratch and mostly digitally.
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Mar 19, 2024 05:27
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jisforjosh posted:This thread is my solace. I'm in a BoB/The Pacific group on FB that's primarily for memes and I feel insane with how much love the show is getting the two episodes where the masters of the air do stuff in the air are legitimately great
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Mar 19, 2024 05:41
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I will say that one of the shots as they were flying low in profile over Holland looked excellent, it looked like a shot taken from a camera aircraft. It reminded me of TV footage when the Dambusters Lancaster was restored and flew down the training run like ten years ago.
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Mar 19, 2024 05:42
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XYZAB posted:Like really. No G variants at all. I'm half surprised the Red Tails weren't flying around in P-82s with B canopies and Allison engines. What's that sound? IT'S AN F-22 GET OFF THE ROAD!
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Mar 19, 2024 06:31
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Eau de MacGowan posted:the two episodes where the masters of the air do stuff in the air are legitimately great Right? I felt the actual bomber stuff fell off by midseason and it was just Crosby dating people and POW stuff from then on. Catch-22 seems like it has about as many in-bomber scenes.
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Mar 19, 2024 08:22
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it’s a catch 22 to watch masters of the air
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Mar 19, 2024 08:56
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skooma512 posted:The POW camp liberation scene was pretty dumb. First, typically the guards would either just walk away once it was clear the Allied army was coming, surrender to the army, or even surrender to their own prisoners. The writing was on the wall in April 1945 and the attitude was much closer to the guys in Holland standing around at their flak guns doing nothing. Secondly, they weren't doing mass executions of western allied POWs which thirdly, they got into the machine gun tower and then didn't kill the guy there? It was probably the worst scene in the entire show. The only thing that made sense about it was an idiot American (I repeat myself) director wanting their heroic flag raising scene set to bombastic music after kicking rear end and snarling while chewing cigars or whatever dumb bullshit morons think is cool. And it was coming right off the back of the Soviet advance apparently being small groups of dudes just walking through fields while shooting in front of them, as opposed to the Red Army being by far the most well organized and effective army in the world at that time. Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Mar 19, 2024 |
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Mar 19, 2024 09:50
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Orange Devil posted:
I've never heard this before. Is there any evidence for it or is this just goon stupids?
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Mar 19, 2024 10:44
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skooma512 posted:The POW camp liberation scene was pretty dumb. First, typically the guards would either just walk away once it was clear the Allied army was coming, surrender to the army, or even surrender to their own prisoners. The writing was on the wall in April 1945 and the attitude was much closer to the guys in Holland standing around at their flak guns doing nothing. Secondly, they weren't doing mass executions of western allied POWs which thirdly, they got into the machine gun tower and then didn't kill the guy there? Yeah in real life the Germans just surrendered the camp and the Allied prisoners didn't have to storm MG towers with rocks because the war was over and neither side really wanted to die for nothing in that instance.
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Mar 19, 2024 11:10
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a dingus posted:I've never heard this before. Is there any evidence for it or is this just goon stupids? While the Red Army was an absolute shambles during Barbarossa, it legitimately did improve drastically during the course of the war. Logistics, equipment, training, and doctrine all saw major improvements and by 1944 were easily on par with the other allied powers. One of its crowning achievements was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bagration, where the Red Army annihilated large parts of the Wehrmacht and recaptured a huge amount of ground in just two months. Importantly, this was not simply a matter of numerical superiority, but also very tight planning, preparation, and coordination that allowed that many troops to advance that quickly over so much area against stiff resistance.
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Mar 19, 2024 12:10
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Cool. I know Americans and probably folks in western Europe under appreciate the contributions of the red army. I know they were a powerhouse but to say they were by far the most organized and effective seems just as wrong as going "USA, USA #1 #1 WHOAAAYEAHH!!!!  "
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Mar 19, 2024 12:20
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Orange Devil posted:It was probably the worst scene in the entire show. The only thing that made sense about it was an idiot American (I repeat myself) director wanting their heroic flag raising scene set to bombastic music after kicking rear end and snarling while chewing cigars or whatever dumb bullshit morons think is cool. The show is dumb, for sure. But, it wasn't really attempting to show any sort of major famous engagement with the Red Army, it appeared they were mopping up after a victorious battle and simply murdering wounded and surrendered men? That pretty much is a bunch of walking forward and just shooting people. It looks like Bomber Boy missed the big show and landed at the tail end of a fight. I don't think it did the Red Army dirty at all - they were pretty war-crimey in real life, and when Bomber Boy was trucking around with them they seemed polite and professional and not a bunch of ragged conscripts shouting commie propaganda. The dumbest thing about it was that they just happened to stop in front of the death camp and the guy asked to stretch his legs and not a single person there told him "Uhh, maybe don't walk into the camp full of 10,000 corpses for your little stroll".
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Mar 19, 2024 12:44
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All in all, I did generally enjoy watching the show, but I wonder how much of that was based on thinking the bomber sequences were cool and then we never really got to see them again. If I could remake this show again, in my own fantasy world, I would have had the show set entirely in the bombers. They could have still saved a lot of money by having a lot of dialogue scenes set in the interior of the plane without needing to show 500 CGI planes fighting outside the window. It could have been intense, like Das Boot. They could open each episode with maybe a briefing, or even just a map, date, and red line on the map showing the target or something and then zoom all the way into the bombers. Each episode could be a different operation, with the first one involving training missions. The final one could still be the food-drop to Holland where we get the denouement. In between we can have a lot of actual combat missions showing how they did indeed become the Masters of the Air, instead of having it happen off-screen in between episodes where "The Luftwaffe is kicking our rear end" and "The Luftwaffe doesn't exist" occurred on the way to Poochie's home planet. Each episode could even focus on a different crew with some different characters and highlight some of the less glamorous jobs, or different difficulties they face in different weather or target sites or with inexperienced crews or 1000 other things. Bombers are interesting. Maybe put bombers in your show about bombers. I have the same problem with the Das Boot TV show. It is ostensibly about submarine warfare but they quickly lose the loving thread of that and turn it into yet another espionage show where we now have Nazi spies learning about racism by dating black girls in New York City and all sorts of other nonsense that has little to do with the naval war. I gave up on the show when early in the season the boat gets blown up and it looks like it is just going to be about the survivors doing cloak and dagger poo poo instead of launching torpedoes and dodging depth charges. I have little hope in a future show from the same production company. Sure, maybe they'll make a show about the Eastern Front, and then waste half the screen time covering some American war correspondent trying to gently caress Russian bar girls in Moscow.
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Mar 19, 2024 12:51
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a dingus posted:Cool. I know Americans and probably folks in western Europe under appreciate the contributions of the red army. I know they were a powerhouse but to say they were by far the most organized and effective seems just as wrong as going "USA, USA #1 #1 WHOAAAYEAHH!!!! What? No, it's not. It's absolutely true that by the end of WW2 the Red Army were by far the most effective and organized. It certainly wasn't the Germans, and it certainly wasn't the Americans. That statement is as close to objective truth as you can get: the Red Army , depending on the particular moment, was facing between 2 and 5 times the number of troops on the eastern front as the allies were on the western front, and still were conquering territory faster and moving at a staggering speed. I don't know what is controversial about that.
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Mar 19, 2024 14:37
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In 1945 Soviets overran Manchuria in under two weeks. An object in motion stays in motion.
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Mar 19, 2024 14:51
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Dang, guess I was wrong. "USSR! USSR! #1 #1 whooyeah!!  "
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Mar 19, 2024 15:52
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A big part of the Red Army's success in 1944-45 was that they'd built up a strong leadership corps out of officers who'd survived 1941-1943. They had much more experience at large-scale combat than the Americans did. Montgomery had good experience with 8th Army, but the Soviets had officers with a year of two of successfully running army groups.
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Mar 19, 2024 16:01
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a dingus posted:Dang, guess I was wrong. "USSR! USSR! #1 #1 whooyeah!! What do you think the reasonable answer to "who was the most effective army at the end of the war in Europe?"
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Mar 19, 2024 16:40
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The interesting question is the Russian air force vs. US Air Force. US Navy was the best in the world by a large margin in 1945. The Russian army was better than the US and British combined. In a hypothetical post war (and non nuclear) fight the battles in the air would have a big impact on events too.
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Mar 19, 2024 16:54
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