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Good grade logs are so available and relatively cheap that most yard trees are pretty commercially worthless and go to the dump or get chipped for biomass fuel or mulch. Say you actually do have a nice straight 2 ton white oak that might yield 600bf. It’s worth $300 at the mill entrance-if you can get it there-and probably took 3 guys half a day to get safely to the ground without smashing any houses. One guys with a feller-buncher in the woods can drop 20 of them an hour. And the mill might well reject it because it’s probably full of old tree house nails. Even if it’s the mythical huge walnut tree with 3 $2000 slabs in it, the sawyer has to pay the note on the mill, pay himself and store and dry the lumber for 2-3yrs before they’re going to see a penny if they don’t get paid cash for taking the tree down. And you can’t eat half dried walnut, unfortunately. A tree service would charge $1-2k easy to take a big tree down-most trees aren’t going to yield anywhere near enough usable lumber to make that work out economically for the sawyer. 90% of the value in lumber (and the cost the consumer pays) is in cutting, sawing, drying, and moving wood, not the trees themselves. Trees are cheap, labor is expensive. Yellow pine sawtimber is literally $.03/bf on the stump that turns into $1/bf retail. Hardwood stumpage is a bit better, but still $.40/bf for white oak that’s $4/bf retail. People think sawyers should be essentially paying them $1-2k dollars (the cost of having a tree taken down) for a crooked tree. All that being said, if you just want some wood in a few years and want to help your neighbor have a blast. I do think the slab furniture stuff has made good use of some trees that have beautiful wood in them but would make bad grade lumber.
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Aug 29, 2019 19:32
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Stumpage is a fantastic word and I love it. Also very "inside baseball" and I love it.
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Aug 29, 2019 19:41
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I stole a bunch of walnut from the industry last weekend
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Aug 29, 2019 19:53
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Bad Munki posted:I stole a bunch of walnut from the industry last weekend
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Aug 29, 2019 19:57
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I think the issue here is that people think they're doing you a service by giving you the opportunity to take all this free wood, all you have to do is cut the tree down and haul all the bits away. Even if you get a lot of wood out of the tree, it's not free -- you're putting in a lot of labor and your neighbor is benefiting from the service you're providing more than you are from getting the wood. Tree services get the wood "for free" (i.e. part of the work contract is hauling the wood away), and make whatever money they can from it (usually AIUI by turning it into mulch). They certainly don't work for free, which suggests that the value of the wood is not that high. This is what I meant. Never cut down or haul wood for free unless you're just being nice. Trees aren't worth anything unless it's a very large, very healthy stand of valuable trees in great quantity, in a place with access. Bill, the random guy who has a walnut tree leaning over his house that tries to get it taken down for free (because the lumber is *so valuable*) is wildly mistaken. E: also what Kaiser said. EE: also not suggesting that cutting down trees is wrong. Cut down trees. Hypnolobster fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Aug 29, 2019 |
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Aug 29, 2019 20:05
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Ah, I see, so you're saying the reverse of how I read it originally. You're not saying free wood takers are stealing from the industry, you're saying they're getting taken for a ride by the tree-haver, whether either party knows it or not. In my case, it was just to be nice, it was a neighbor down the road with a tree half down from a storm. I knocked on his door to ask if he wanted it down and I'd take the wood, for me it's the hobby side of the thing, for him it was probably $1500 of gratis tree removal, and now I have a big favor in my pocket for another day. But I really liked the idea of being a tree industry ne'er do well, a scofflaw driving off with my trailer full of logs while shouting "DEEZ WALNUTZ" Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Aug 29, 2019 |
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Aug 29, 2019 20:08
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I've got a stupid question I hope you fine folks can help me with. I've just made a very nice wooden countertop and I want to protect it from my coffee machine which will sit on it. Expect water and coffee drips to sit under the machine. I've got a bit of 6mm MDF that will fit nice under the machine, but how to protect that MDF? I assume an MDF primer first, but what would you recommend to go on top of that? Some moisture resistant bathroom emulsion? I don't mind if the MDF gets stained as it will be mostly out of sight, but I do want it to protect the worktop.
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Aug 29, 2019 20:08
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Paint the MDF. And I'd put some feet on it so it's not sitting flat on the countertop, just in case you get a (larger) spill.
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Aug 29, 2019 20:12
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Shut up Meg posted:I've got a stupid question I hope you fine folks can help me with. throw the MDF in the trash. Then seal your counter top, go back a page or two and there is discussion on water sealing. I like Resin but most people dont as its not very forgiving for beginner mistakes.
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Aug 29, 2019 20:14
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Get a piece of clear plastic and put a couple felt feet on it.
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Aug 29, 2019 20:16
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Shut up Meg posted:I've got a stupid question I hope you fine folks can help me with. I have a butcher block countertop and it's properly sealed for it, but I still hate the amount of water that gets missed when cleaning up under the coffee machine because it still will stain. They make mats with lips to sit under nice coffee machines and grinders, you should just look into one of those and throw away the MDF. If you're dead set on using the MDF, then prime and paint will be good enough for a while. But coffee will eventually stain pretty much everything.
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Aug 29, 2019 20:43
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What these other fine folks are saying is that MDF is among the worst materials you could pick for a high-moisture environment, so it makes no sense to spend lots of effort trying to fix it to work. MDF is wood sponge. But also, if you have to protect your wood countertop from water damage, it's not doing its job, so maybe also seal your wood countertop so it can do service as a countertop.
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Aug 29, 2019 20:50
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Thank you all: some very helpful and informative advice. I did read the last few pages with interest because I have just finished sealing my worktop and it is waterproof: but as Jhet says, hidden bits of damp ground coffee stain absolutely anything really badly and I'd hate to damage my hard work. Noted that it's a crap material for water resistance. My machine doesn't piss water all over the place and but I'll regard it as sacrificial and replace it occasionally. Great suggestions for the feet. I may swap it out for a nice bit of real wood at a later date.
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Aug 29, 2019 21:30
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Seriously though they make a product for this: https://www.google.com/search?q=coffee+machine+mat&tbm=shop I'm all about the DIY here in the DIY subforum, but sometimes it's good to spend $20 and have something purpose-made for exactly this use case that will last for years and is made of the ideal material for the purpose
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Aug 29, 2019 21:37
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Shut up Meg posted:Thank you all: some very helpful and informative advice. Now you're cooking. Teak is a nice wood that's a real nice wood. Otoh, with dark rosewood you can't see the stains!
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Aug 29, 2019 21:37
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Leperflesh posted:Seriously though they make a product for this: I was just about to come in and suggest: https://www.amazon.com/DogBuddy-Sil...ljaz10cnVl&th=1 A little wide, probably, but you could put the sugar in there and make a station out of it and nobody who came in your kitchen would think twice about it.
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Aug 29, 2019 21:40
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On a related note, boot trays/dog dish trays/food service trays/related shapes make great sharpening stations to contain the horrifying steel/stone slurry.
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Aug 29, 2019 21:58
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Leperflesh posted:Seriously though they make a product for this: Yeah, I agree with your philosophy here. It's not for tamping the coffee on, I have a bean to cup machine like this:  What happens is even if you are clean worker, tiny bits of coffee can accumulate under the feet and they really do stain anything like a MFer. I dread to think what it's doing to my teeth. This is just to catch those unseen bits and sacrifice itself to save my glorious solid wood worktop. Maybe just a sheet of vinyl would work as well. Huxley posted:I was just about to come in and suggest: An interesting idea and I'll look into it. Mr. Mambold posted:Now you're cooking. Teak is a nice wood that's a real nice wood. Otoh, with dark rosewood you can't see the stains! The problem I have is that I am an apartment dweller with extremely limited space. I can cut MDF with a jigsaw on my laundry bin, but I have nowhere to safely use a circular saw and even a handsaw is tricky without somewhere to securely rest things on. I do dream of a table saw at nights.
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Aug 29, 2019 22:10
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Huxley posted:I was just about to come in and suggest: and if you want to add a little flair make a stylized lattice stand off to go in it. Practice your water/stain proofing on the lattice without worrying about the counter top getting stained. edit: look for a makerspace in your area. Not guaranteed to have one but if you do it can give you a shop to work. JEEVES420 fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Aug 29, 2019 |
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Aug 29, 2019 22:12
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:Yellow pine sawtimber is literally $.03/bf on the stump that turns into $1/bf retail. Not too long ago there was a post on the local Craigslist advertising "free pine wood" that was "if you come take these 75'+ trees down in my yard". I think I audibly laughed at that one the first time I saw it.
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Aug 29, 2019 22:15
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n0tqu1tesane posted:Not too long ago there was a post on the local Craigslist advertising "free pine wood" that was "if you come take these 75'+ trees down in my yard". I think I audibly laughed at that one the first time I saw it. Yeah, my neighbor had a crew come in an take down a 50' tall pine yesterday. There was a miscommunication with the company hired and he was left with a bunch of wood that his wife put up on the neighborhood facebook a few hours later as free to take. I laughed because the only thing that tree would be good for is firewood the way it was super knotty and grown. It looked like it had been topped by wind or person at one point because there was a strange dwarf split about 30' up before it kept growing. I did help my parents with trimming their black locust last week, and have a 4' section about 10-13" round that I'll turn into something in a couple of years. As I had no room in my car, I just painted the ends and put it up in a shed on blocks. I'm sure it'll be fine... right? 
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Aug 29, 2019 23:07
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Wrt tree value chat, this is why there's been bans on some of the rarer African timbers like Wenge and zebrano. There were government limits on export quantities but there were a bunch of shady operators selling illegally forested trees so basically Africa just said "ok no more lol" I'm doing a wood turning class at some point soon with the intention to make a wenge pepper grinder and a matching mountain ash salt mill 
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Aug 30, 2019 03:47
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I just want a shitload of sycamore and the skill to do anything with it. There's a half dozen the other side of my property line I'm waiting for the highways agency to think about taking down then I'll find how big a bribe the tree surgeon wants to leave some of it for me.
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Aug 30, 2019 10:18
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Shut up Meg posted:The problem I have is that I am an apartment dweller with extremely limited space. I can cut MDF with a jigsaw on my laundry bin, but I have nowhere to safely use a circular saw and even a handsaw is tricky without somewhere to securely rest things on. I'm not pushing this because I've been there for sure, but just FYI I usually use my floor for circular/track saw work, because it's the biggest solid surface I have. You need some kind of sacrificial material like a sheet of MDF (I use stiff insulation instead because it's easier to store and move) so the blade can cut through the piece but not into the floor.
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Aug 30, 2019 11:28
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To all saying that MDF was a stupid idea - your opinion has been held in high regard and I've swapped to something made of plastic. (the final straw was discovering that I've lost the guide for my router so I couldn't make the edges look like anything other than a hunk of cardboard.) JEEVES420 posted:edit: look for a makerspace in your area. Not guaranteed to have one but if you do it can give you a shop to work. A great idea and I was surprised to discover there is one within walking distance. Of course, like all enthusiasts clubs, their website has information on upcoming games nights and a list of all the 'humourous' names they have given to their equipment, but nothing about when they are open or how much they charge. Jaded Burnout posted:I'm not pushing this because I've been there for sure, but just FYI I usually use my floor for circular/track saw work, because it's the biggest solid surface I have. You need some kind of sacrificial material like a sheet of MDF (I use stiff insulation instead because it's easier to store and move) so the blade can cut through the piece but not into the floor. I am very appreciative of you pushing this. It hadn't even crossed my mind that this was possible and I'd been thinking how to safely balance a giant spinning wheel of death off the side of the bathub, above my femoral artery.
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Aug 30, 2019 11:49
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Shut up Meg posted:I am very appreciative of you pushing this. It hadn't even crossed my mind that this was possible and I'd been thinking how to safely balance a giant spinning wheel of death off the side of the bathub, above my femoral artery. No worries. it's my understanding that this is a common approach to breaking down sheet materials even if you have a table saw but don't have a panel saw (something designed to deal with full size sheets). Just have to be careful that you're setting the depth of cut correctly on your saw and have enough of a cutting depth in your sacrificial whatever. I've also done it by sitting a full sheet on four plastic fold-away sawhorses which achieves much the same but is a bit more faff sometimes.
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Aug 30, 2019 11:56
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A walking distance maker space is like the jackpot
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Aug 30, 2019 12:12
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What's the simplest joinery to use for making a utilitarian set of drawers? Pocket holes?
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Aug 30, 2019 14:23
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Jaded Burnout posted:What's the simplest joinery to use for making a utilitarian set of drawers? Pocket holes? yep
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Aug 30, 2019 14:24
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Alternative possibility is butt joint held with brad nails and then thru-doweled. Glue, poke in two brad nails, an hour later drill all the way through and glue in two dowels. That's my favorite quick and dirty method for a lot of utilitarian joinery. The natural step up is rabbet joints with brad nails and/or dowels. If you're making a shitload of them, it's potentially faster in the end because it locates the joint for you without having to mess around making a butt joint flush before screwing/nailing/etc. Hypnolobster fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Aug 30, 2019 |
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Aug 30, 2019 14:32
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It's probably going to be relatively thin sheet material, at least partly MDF because that's what I have on hand.
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Aug 30, 2019 14:38
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But with biscuits you get to say that word in your head until it loses meaning. Biscuits biscuits biscuits ok there we go
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Aug 30, 2019 14:54
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Might be worth mentioning the joinery-adjacent tools I have available: - Table saw - Track saw - Router (but no router table) - Kreg pocket hole jig - Brad nailer - Mitre saw - Glue, nails, screws etc - Jigsaw - Hand saws - No special biscuit/domino/doweling tools
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Aug 30, 2019 15:18
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Whenever I make drawers I just rabbet and brad nail Doing pocketholes on 1/2” material kinda suuuucks
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Aug 30, 2019 15:53
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Yeah, if it's mdf and 1/2 or less I'd definitely rabbet, glue and nail. Pocket holes in mdf sucks in general, sucks more when it's thin.
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Aug 30, 2019 16:01
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Just nail gun Norm Abram it and pop pop pop with some glue. You can also countersink screws from the outside and that’s probably a little stronger than brads but a lot more work. If you are going to put a front on the box, it’s actually stronger to have the front and back of the drawer box cap the sides and screw through front and back into sides. If it’s something for heavy use and not on drawer slides, it might be worth doing (but if it’s MDF I assume it’s not for long term heavy use). The drawer front then covers the screws on the front of the box.
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Aug 30, 2019 16:09
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They're going under the workbench, so appearance isn't that important and I'm sure I'll replace the whole thing in a couple of years. Maybe just glue and nails is going to be the most effective option. I'll pick up some slides and see how it goes I think it'll just be a 5 sided box with slides, rather than shelves.
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Aug 30, 2019 16:18
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Jaded Burnout posted:No worries. it's my understanding that this is a common approach to breaking down sheet materials even if you have a table saw but don't have a panel saw (something designed to deal with full size sheets).
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Aug 30, 2019 16:28
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Shut up Meg posted:You gave me one of those lightbulb moments where it all suddenly becomes clear and you feel stupid for not realising it. Epiphanies are my favorite part of the trades and I've both long since stopped feeling embarrassed when I learned a trick for doing something and dropped people in my life who make me feel stupid for not knowing something. Its not like people are born with this magical knowledge! Stepping stones baby. Ask lots of questions and learn everything I thought everyone cut sheets down on recycling bins for the longest time because that's how my dad did it lol
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Aug 30, 2019 16:33
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I spent several minutes maybe even dozens thinking about how to trim down the height of a small strip of high-density plastic. I thought about ripping it on the table saw just shaving one edge down, I thought about filing it, and I even spent a minute or two hitting it with 80 grit sandpaper trying to get it just a little bit thinner. eventually I realized I had a whole shitload of hand planes that we're going to do exactly what I needed to be done and felt like an idiot
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Aug 30, 2019 16:36
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