[Ukraine] the T-62 has a battle rating of 8.7-9.0 depending on variant in War Thunder

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] the T-62 has a battle rating of 8.7-9.0 depending on variant in War Thunder

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mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Lostconfused posted:

That's Olivier.

Russians trying so hard to prop up French culture and the rest of the world keeps getting mad about it

the guy's Muscovite born and raised

# ? Jul 16, 2023 02:46

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# ? Jun 17, 2024 07:30

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Frosted Flake posted:

Hyperwar has ww2 primary sources on everything. In trying to find something amusing for this post, I stumbled across GUIDE TO FOREIGN MILITARY STUDIES 1945-54 CATALOG & INDEX

If you haven't guessed what that is yet, they just come out and say all of the things we've joked about ITT:

This catalog and index is a guide to the manuscripts produced under the Foreign Military Studies Program of the Historical Division, United States Army, Europe, and of predecessor commands since 1945. Most of these manuscripts were prepared by former high-ranking officers of the German Armed Forces, writing under the sponsorship of their former adversaries. The program therefore represents an unusual degree of collaboration between officers of nations recently at war.
The Foreign Military Studies Program actually began shortly after V-E Day, when Allied interrogators first questioned certain prominent German prisoners of war. Results were so encouraging that the program was expanded; written questions replaced oral interrogation, and later certain highly-placed German officers were asked to prepare a series of monographs.

Originally the mission of the program was only to obtain information on enemy operations in the European Theater for use in the preparation of an official history of the U.S. Army in World War II. In 1946 the program was broadened to include the Mediterranean and Russian war theaters. Beginning in 1947 emphasis was placed on the pre paration of operational studies for use by U.S. Army planning and training agencies and service schools. The result has been the collection of a large amount of useful information about the German Armed Forces, prepared by German military experts. While the primary aim of the Program has remained unchanged, many of the more recent studies have analyzed the German experience with a view toward deriving useful lessons.

The authors were usually key participants in the events which they described and were able to supply information not otherwise available. In many cases they have supplemented or refreshed their memories by consulting with their military associates. It must be remembered, however, that the contributors are professional military leaders, not historians or writers. While for the most part they have tried to be thorough and objective, they view events primarily in terms of their own experience.

In the initial phases of the program all of the contributors were prisoners of war or internees; participation, however, was always voluntary. While participants were reimbursed for their work, they have been motivated mainly by professional interest and by the desire to promote western solidarity and mutual defense.

In 1948, after most of the contributors had returned to civilian life, the administrative structure and tempo of the program was changed. Contributors now prepare studies in their own homes under the supervision of a small control group, composed of selected high-ranking German officers.

Many of the early manuscripts were inadequately translated and were assigned inappropriate titles. Some of these manuscripts have been reissued in revised versions but in most cases the original titles have been retained to facilitate identification.

During the early years of the program, contributors had to rely largely on their memories, since the basic documents had been destroyed or were otherwise unavailable to them. Within the past few months basic documents have been increasingly provided to contributors, who now place more emphasis on careful documentation. Current studies are now checked against known sources and in some cases are considerably revised in the English version. Although individual studies will continue fo vary in quality, the collection as a whole constitutes a noteworthy contribution to the history of World War II.

Ah, the vector through which the US got Prussian Way of War syndrome

# ? Jul 16, 2023 02:46

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

my nazi collaboration catalog has people asking a lot of questions already answered by my nazi collaboration catalog

crepeface has issued a correction as of 02:57 on Jul 16, 2023

# ? Jul 16, 2023 02:54

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

flipping through my Nazi rolodex, as one does

# ? Jul 16, 2023 03:01

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

It is like mad libs...but with the entire history of the second world war.

# ? Jul 16, 2023 03:18

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

mad, libs?

# ? Jul 16, 2023 03:20

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
(and can't post for 11 days!)

gradenko_2000 posted:

Calling a Russian cake, Napoleon cake? Might as well call it Hitler cake, wtf.

This is you :colbert:

https://twitter.com/OssKx/status/1678739707117686785?s=20
https://twitter.com/OssKx/status/1679092318886830080?s=20
https://twitter.com/Sgvaldyr/status/1679113364021075970?s=20

# ? Jul 16, 2023 03:39

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

This is you

I'd like to think that Russians have a bit more of a reason to think ill of Napoleon than, say, the British

# ? Jul 16, 2023 03:41

Raccooon: Dec 5, 2009

Seems kind of noteworthy that Russia the just �a giant gas station� is better at mass producing ammunition than the entire western world.

# ? Jul 16, 2023 03:45

Fell Mood: Jul 2, 2022; A terrible Fell look!

The Russians are the defenders of mankind against the evils of despotism. They defeated Napoleon. They defeated the Nazis, and God willing they will defeat the USA and its Nato lackeys.

# ? Jul 16, 2023 03:45

Turrurrurrurrrrrrr: Dec 22, 2018; I hope this is "battle" enough for you, friend.

But will they defeat Putin?

# ? Jul 16, 2023 03:48

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Waffen-SS Officers:
Generaloberst (Waffen-SS)
Dietrich, Joseph ("Sepp")
Hausser, Paul Georg
General der Waffen-SS
Bach-Zelewsky, Erich von der
Bittrich, Wilhelm
Eberstein, Karl Frhr. von
Hofmann, Otto
Steiner, Felix
Generalleutnant (Waffen-SS)
Simon, Max
Staudinger, Walter
Generalmajor (Waffen-SS)
Herrmann, Karl
Kraemer, Fritz
Oberst (Waffen-SS)
Lehmann, Rudolf
Peiper, Joachim
Oberstleutnant (Waffen-SS)
Albert, Ekkehard
Skorzeny, Otto

Police Officials:
Generalmajor der Ordnungspolizei
Keuck, Walter
Muhe, Ludwig

Gestapo:
N/A

NSDAP:
Generalarbeitsfuehrer
Hickl, Fritz

Abwehr:
N/A

ChatGPT sucks and I had to just do it manually, which is weird because you would think data entry would be... you know the most basic requirement. Anyway, likely omissions.

and Christ! Have you seen some of these titles? :eyepop:

German Military Strategies and Information Security:
"German Methods of Safeguarding Classified Military Information." - Generalmajor Rudolf Langhaeuser
"Questionnaire on 'Wehrmacht Propaganda.'" - Dr. Kurt Hesse
"Psychological Warfare." - Generalfeldmarschall Albert Kesselring
"Strategy and Psychological Warfare." - General der Infanterie Guenther Blumenr

Chemical Warfare:
"Chemical Warfare Agents." - Oberst Karl Schuegraf

Partisan Warfare and Resistance Movements (Crimes, War):
"Besancon (3 5 Sep 1944)." - Generalmajor Paul v. Felbert; Security activities.
"Partisan Warfare: A Treatise Based on Combat Experience in the Balkans." - Generalmajor Alexander Ratcliffe
"Supply of Partisan Units During the War 1941-45." - D. Karov and V. Volzhanin; Based on the authors' experience in the service of German Counterintelligence and on a study of Russian material after the war.
"The Resistance Movement in the West." - Oberstleutnant Fritz Ziegelmann
"Underground Activity in Kharkov 1941-43." - D. Karov
"Zuyev's Republic." - Wladimir W. Posdnjakoff; An account of a small body-politic created by Zuyev near Polotsk after the departure of the Communists in 1941.
"National Instinct and Governmental Institutions Under German Occupation in Western Russia." - Wladimir W. Posdnjakoff; Reactions of the Russian people to the German occupation. The observer is a Russian expatriate who served with the German intelligence service.
"German Counterintelligence Activities in Occupied Russia 1941-45." - Wladimir W. Posdnjakoff; The author is a Russian expatriate who served with the German intelligence service.
"Lessons learned from the Partisan War in Russia." By Generalmajor Alexander Rothcliffe; A report by an expert on this type of warfare.
"Partisan Warfare in Croatia". By Oberst Karl Gaisser
"Partisan Warfare in the Balkans". By General der Gebirgsiruppen Hubert Lanz, An instructive if somewhat lengthy study based on experience in Albania and Epirus in 1943-44; many useful lessons

Misc. Crimes, War
"PW Camp Location". By Generalmajor Adolf Westhoff; German camps for Russian and Polish war prisoners. A detailed, reliable statistical study.

Espionage and Counterintelligence:
"Espionage Activities of the USSR." - Wladimir W. Posdnjakoff
"Soviet Counterintelligence." - Wladimir W. Posdnjakoff

Mud
"Battle in Mud". By Generaloberst Dr. Lothar Rendulic; Brief examples of warfare during the muddy seasons in Russia.

Winning the War After the Fact
"The Bombing of Dresden in February 1945". By Generalmajor Wilhelm Kirchenpaur;
"The Art of War--A Military Testament." - General der Artillerie Friedrich von Boetticher; An essay on the art of war and the qualities of leadership, written by the former German military attach� to the United States.
"War Games". By General der Infanterie Rudolf Hofmann and 4 others; Administrative and technical problems in the conduct of all types of staff and command post exercises. Suitable for training at higher levels.
"Evaluating War Experience." - Generaloberst Dr. Lothar Rendulic
"Ideas on the Historical Comprehension of the Present War." - Dr. Oberst Kurt Hesse

Irony
"Plan for Industrial Mobilization". By Generalleutnant Kurt Freiherr Ruedt von Collenberg; History of the Ministry of Armaments and War Production up to the time when Reichsminister Speer took office in 1942. Little specific information on top-level policy.
"Tank Repair Service in the German Army". By Generalmajor Burkhart Mueller-Hillebrand and 15 others; A detailed description of the tank maintenance service. Valuable observations on operations in Russia. Need for a greater supply of spare parts and a more decentralized organization is stressed.
"German Armored Traffic Control During ths Russian Campaign". By Generalmajor Burkhart Mueller-Hillebrand; Road conditions in Russia; organization and disposition of traffic control elements.

Uncategorized Entries:
"An Assumed Plan of Attack by the USSR on Western Europe. (CONFIDENTIAL)"
"Refugee Control." - Generalmajor Alfred Toppe and 14 others; An important study of a growing problem in modern warfare, based on wartime experience. A foreword by General Halder deserves special attention.
"The Use of Private Property in Exercises and Maneuvers of the German Army in Peacetime". By Generalmajor Hellmuth Reinhardt; An account of the Army's rigid adherence to the laws and regulations protecting private property.

The real MVP is General der Infanterie Guenther Blumentritt, the true winner of the Second World War:
"Illegal Warfare"
"Twentieth Century Warfare"
"Psychological Problems in War"
"Modern Officer Training"
"Military Literature"
"Writing of Military History"

"On 7 May 1939, Blumentritt submitted to his superiors a working plan for the German Invasion of Poland. At this time, he was assigned to the Oberkommando des Heeres (Army High Command; OKH), and formed along with Manstein and Generalfeldmarshall Gerd von Rundstedt a "Working Staff" for the development of a plan for the invasion. The plan he submitted was called Fall Weiss (Case White) and was subsequently put into action with little alteration"

He planned the Invasion of Poland, and an 84 year covert operation to destroy America, evidently.

Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 04:13 on Jul 16, 2023

# ? Jul 16, 2023 03:50

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
(and can't post for 11 days!)

gradenko_2000 posted:

I'd like to think that Russians have a bit more of a reason to think ill of Napoleon than, say, the British

Yeah, they should hate him for losing.

# ? Jul 16, 2023 04:05

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Look, the Russians might have paid the largest sum in blood for defeating Napoleon, but he attacked British trade, and that�s beyond the pale!

# ? Jul 16, 2023 04:07

Clark Nova: Jul 18, 2004

Raccooon posted:

Seems kind of noteworthy that Russia the just �a giant gas station� is better at mass producing ammunition than the entire western world.

americans think it is normal that a gas station would sell bullets

# ? Jul 16, 2023 04:10

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

e: I'm starting to believe that HYDRA is real

Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 04:17 on Jul 16, 2023

# ? Jul 16, 2023 04:14

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Frosted Flake posted:

e: I'm starting to believe that HYDRA is real

the reason why they had to invent Hydra as "a secret sub-unit of Nazis that was too radical for even the Nazis" was that it would be too on the nose to just write it up that it was straight-up the Nazis that borrowed into American society after the war

# ? Jul 16, 2023 04:20

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
(and can't post for 11 days!)

Hydra wasn't omnicidal enough for the Nazis.

# ? Jul 16, 2023 04:23

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Hmm. I just read that beyond universities with microfiche, "Outside of the United States, copies of the studies are reportedly held by the Canadian Military History Office in Ottawa "

:thunk:

# ? Jul 16, 2023 04:25

BearsBearsBears: Aug 4, 2022

Frosted Flake posted:

I'm starting to believe that HYDRA is real

gradenko_2000 posted:

the reason why they had to invent Hydra as "a secret sub-unit of Nazis that was too radical for even the Nazis" was that it would be too on the nose to just write it up that it was straight-up the Nazis that borrowed into American society after the war

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

In the movies HYDRA was founded by a Nazi that was explicitly PAPERCLIPed into the US govt. Not sure what they originally were in the comics, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they were inspired by PAPERCLIP there as well.

# ? Jul 16, 2023 04:29

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

BearsBearsBears posted:

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

In the movies HYDRA was founded by a Nazi that was explicitly PAPERCLIPed into the US govt. Not sure what they originally were in the comics, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they were inspired by PAPERCLIP there as well.

So they're just american nazis?

:hmmyes:

# ? Jul 16, 2023 04:43

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Frosted Flake posted:

Hmm. I just read that beyond universities with microfiche, "Outside of the United States, copies of the studies are reportedly held by the Canadian Military History Office in Ottawa "

Well off you go! Report back

# ? Jul 16, 2023 04:43

Atrocious Joe: Sep 2, 2011

gradenko_2000 posted:

I'd like to think that Russians have a bit more of a reason to think ill of Napoleon than, say, the British

If Napoleon had invaded Britain we'd all be better off

# ? Jul 16, 2023 04:43

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Atrocious Joe posted:

If Napoleon had invaded Britain we'd all be better off

I agree.

# ? Jul 16, 2023 04:44

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

Frosted Flake posted:

I don't know if it was this thread or Doomsday Econ, but someone suggested just paying the ruling class a bribe not to extract profits at the cost of the continuing existence of the state. They'd make the same amount of money, and we'd have functioning military equipment delivered, on time, in quantity. Win-win.

Great, but what if they took the bribes, and then also extracted profits at the cost of the continuing existence of the state?

# ? Jul 16, 2023 04:47

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

Atrocious Joe posted:

If Napoleon had invaded Britain we'd all be better off

# ? Jul 16, 2023 05:09

PhilippAchtel: May 31, 2011

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

https://twitter.com/JosephPolitano/status/1680014139903680512?s=20

# ? Jul 16, 2023 05:11

Chamale: Jul 11, 2010; I'm helping!

mawarannahr posted:

very trad slavic foods of miso, quinoa, polenta,halloumi,avocado,hummus,babagannush,cilantro,gnocchi,chimichurri,Parmesan cheese at this Ukrainian community center. a genuine taste of Ukrainian culture, traditions, and cuisine.

Everything is Ukrainian food if you fry it up with a ton of garlic and onions

# ? Jul 16, 2023 05:13

Deadly Ham Sandwich: Aug 19, 2009; Smellrose

Endman posted:

Well off you go! Report back

oh god... FF postin' microfiche

# ? Jul 16, 2023 05:15

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

https://twitter.com/JosephPolitano/status/1680014139903680512?s=20

Isnt the gimmick on these that 50 is 'no change' so a deep plunge to 40 and then a return to 50 basically just means it stopped getting worse, not that it got better

# ? Jul 16, 2023 05:49

Starsfan: Sep 29, 2007; This is what happens when you disrespect Cam Neely

Nix Panicus posted:

Isnt the gimmick on these that 50 is 'no change' so a deep plunge to 40 and then a return to 50 basically just means it stopped getting worse, not that it got better

I was reading it like 50 = 50% of expectations.. it says it's a chart of expectation of economic activity.. but not sure how to read it

**no your interpretation seems to be correct based on the tweet.. over 50 = number goes up

# ? Jul 16, 2023 05:52

A Bag of Milk: Jul 3, 2007; I don't see any American dream; I see an American nightmare.

Atrocious Joe posted:

If Napoleon had invaded Britain we'd all be better off

Could've at least followed up the Irish Rebellion of 1798. Maybe tipped the scales like in America

# ? Jul 16, 2023 06:01

Mr Hootington: Jul 24, 2008; I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

Nix Panicus posted:

Isnt the gimmick on these that 50 is 'no change' so a deep plunge to 40 and then a return to 50 basically just means it stopped getting worse, not that it got better

Yes. Below 40 means economic contraction so 3 months at 51, 52, 51 means very little. If we wanted to get even crazier we could look at the breakdowns of that number to see what caused it to bounce into expansion. Could be more people were hired, prices went up so more profit, new orders, more orders being fulfilled. All sorts of poo poo.

# ? Jul 16, 2023 06:08

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

gradenko_2000 posted:

I'd like to think that Russians have a bit more of a reason to think ill of Napoleon than, say, the British

I think ill of him for killing people regardless of their nationality.

# ? Jul 16, 2023 06:08

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

WoodrowSkillson posted:

i was worried about steve. he released 3 videos on 4/20 in 2022, then went dark for liek a year, then randomly popped up with 2 more videos a couple months ago. i thought the botulism finally got him

Funny enough he just put one out 2 hours ago

# ? Jul 16, 2023 06:15

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

I still don't understand why HIMARS is some kind of wunderwaffen when it's just an American BM-30 Smerch? What does it do that the BM-30 doesn't? I think someone mentioned earlier that it can fire individual rockets at different targets while the BM-30 cannot, maybe that's true compared to the original 1980s era BM-30 but that just sounds like a limitation of Soviet electronics that would be trivial to rectify today.

The thing that does baffle me about Russian procurement is how they are only now realizing the utility of glide bombs and JDAM retrofit kits. JDAMs aren't a secret, what were they thinking, just use Su-34s to do WW2 bombing runs with iron bombs?

# ? Jul 16, 2023 06:19

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
(and can't post for 11 days!)

https://twitter.com/PStyle0ne1/status/1679942039176085505?s=20

# ? Jul 16, 2023 06:20

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Throatwarbler posted:

I still don't understand why HIMARS is some kind of wunderwaffen when it's just an American BM-30 Smerch? What does it do that the BM-30 doesn't? I think someone mentioned earlier that it can fire individual rockets at different targets while the BM-30 cannot, maybe that's true compared to the original 1980s era BM-30 but that just sounds like a limitation of Soviet electronics that would be trivial to rectify today.

The thing that does baffle me about Russian procurement is how they are only now realizing the utility of glide bombs and JDAM retrofit kits. JDAMs aren't a secret, what were they thinking, just use Su-34s to do WW2 bombing runs with iron bombs?

The US MIC is just a lot better at marketing than their Russian equivalents, that's all.

# ? Jul 16, 2023 06:20

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Chamale posted:

Everything is Ukrainian food if you fry it up with a ton of garlic and onions

This is what everyone says about every cuisine. It's the "don't like the weather here? Just wait five minutes" if cooking.

# ? Jul 16, 2023 06:24

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# ? Jun 17, 2024 07:30

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

Throatwarbler posted:

I still don't understand why HIMARS is some kind of wunderwaffen when it's just an American BM-30 Smerch? What does it do that the BM-30 doesn't? I think someone mentioned earlier that it can fire individual rockets at different targets while the BM-30 cannot, maybe that's true compared to the original 1980s era BM-30 but that just sounds like a limitation of Soviet electronics that would be trivial to rectify today.

Its Western, therefore magically better and invincible

# ? Jul 16, 2023 06:27

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] the T-62 has a battle rating of 8.7-9.0 depending on variant in War Thunder

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