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Oh and googling the Air Depot unit from Mokmer brought me to this page http://www.cbi-history.com/part_iii_adg.html http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/VI/index.html#contents http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/VI/AAF-VI-11.html#page380 
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Oct 10, 2017 17:43
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Libluini posted:Nothing against burning Catholics, but the rest I hated the most. We didn't need this knowledge "gifted" to us from the Great Americans. You did pick up on the idea that the alt-history fiction novel 1632 takes place in 1632, a time before anyone in the world knew what a bacteria is, yes?
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Oct 10, 2017 17:53
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Hey, I'm about 95% sure this is a dumb question, but a buddy was talking about On Killing by Dave Grossman a couple of days ago. That vaguely reminded me of there being something a bit screwy about that book you guys pointed out, but I can't remember anything beyond "It had to do with his methodology, maybe, and also there was a good effortpost explaining why it's not so good". Is my memory right or am I just fabricating stuff wholesale?
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Oct 10, 2017 17:54
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Picture of they day: Soviet dugouts. Möhkö. March 20th, 1940. SA-Kuva -- Part 13: Peace! So... when do we get to go home? This is a translation of the war diary of the Finnish 2nd Detached Sissi Company from 10.11.1939 to 26.4.1940, as it fought in the Winter War. Last time, the company had just sent out a patrol when news of the peace arrived. A frantic attempt to recall the patrol failed, but they ended up returning safe and sound a few hours later. The company is all over the place in the general vicinity of Käenkoski. -- 21.3.1940 - 10.4.1940 Company stays in Käenkoski, training and organizing (Loezi: I'm getting fairly convinced that "organizing" and "organizational work" is code for "we did gently caress-all, but can't write that in the diary"). By the command of Cpt. Lampola, guard details were posted in Pihlajavaara and Louhivaara. These details were to guard the border by patrolling. These patrols were recalled 3.4.1940 when 1st company of the 41st infantry regiment arrived in Naarva and took up their duties. One platoon at a time was billeted in Käenkoski, where it did fieldworks on the eastern side of Talvivaara, on the isthmus between lake Pilttijärvi and the Haravasuo swamp. Between 26.3. - 6.4.1940 courses were organized to deal with the lack of squad leaders (Loezi: NCOs). Courses had 33 participants. 11.4.1940 - 20.4.1940 The company is again in Käenkoski. Fieldworks in the area of Talvivaara using the whole company. On the 21st of April, 1940 at 4.30 the company arrived in Ilomantsi proper, where final works were conducted in preparation for discharging the company. On 26th of April, 1940, by Regiment order number 950/III/40 the regiment was discharged. The volunteered men from the third class of the auxiliary reserve (Loezi: This means males over 18 that had not underwent their conscription, and thus basic training, at the start of the war) were partially demobilized and some of the reservists were granted temporary leave. The remaining men were moved to the 1st company of the 41st Infantry Regiment. Loezi: The war diary of the 1st company of the 41st Infantry Regiment continues for a few more days. The final entry in it is dated 12th of May, 1940 and says: "Company grants leave to 1 NCO and 6 men". All the entries prior to that, starting from April 25th, are just the same with different numbers. --- So ends the war diary of the 2nd Detached Sissi Company, as it fought in the Winter War. Next up, some pictures followed by more general words on the sector. Already on the 20th of March, Soviets and Finns conducted peace negotiations in Möhkö. I have no details on what the specifics of those negotiations were, but here are some pictures, all from SA-Kuva and taken 20/3/1940:      Photographed on the same day, a bridge built by the Soviets in Möhkö to replace the one blown up by the Finns at the very start of the war.   An a view of the shoreline from the same bridge  The new border would be marked with posts like these... (pictured summer '41)  And patrolled by men like these (also pictured summer '41)   -- The Finns had started the war in the Ilomantsi area by putting a single locally sourced detached battalion against the 155th Soviet Infantry Division, making the odds some 1:20. By mid-December, the Finns had managed to reinforce the theatre forces to a total of four battalions, resulting in a theoretical force ratio of some 1:4. A further two battalions were temporarily on the sector around the end of the year to take part in an attempted counter attack that failed to push the Soviet forces back. The end of the year also marked the end to significant Soviet attacks in the Oinassalmi area, resulting in the front largely stabilising. During the rest of the war, Finns conducted so called "Sissi" operations, striking in the enemy depth with small patrols. To counter this, the Soviets eventually brought two additional ski battalions to the sector. While the sector itself may seem relatively unimportant, it was a critical flank of the Finnish forces in the area north of Lake Laatokka (Ladoga). Were the Ilomantsi sector to fall, the Soviets would have had free reign to flank and surround the Finnish forces north of Laatokka. This, in turn, would have allowed the Soviets to cut off the Karelian Isthmus from the rest of Finland, effectively trapping the bulk of Finnish army, leaving the road to rest of Finland open. Later Finnish estimates number the losses of the 155th at some one third of their total force. I'm unable to find any Soviet sources online. Finnish losses for the whole of Group A were, by March 13th, 125 killed, 275 wounded and 22 missing. Our company's diary only mentions one man wounded in enemy action. There are indications that several other men suffered from frostbite, but it's unclear how severe these cases were and whether they warranted treatment beyond that which could be provided in the line. Both sides were short on supplies. Captured radio messages indicate that the Soviets started to run out of food and supplies already around the 21st of December, explaining the lacklustre performance. The Finns too had immense equipment shortages, with a significant portion of the men only being equipped at the start of the war in the so called "Model Cajander" equipment, named after the pre-war prime minister who was blamed for the lack of defense funds. These men would have only received a rifle, a pair of uniform pants, a belt and a small cockade to pin to their hat. In effect, many would start the fight in their civilian clothes. The Soviet 155th Rifle Division would later be destroyed (or surrendered?) near Bryansk as part of Operation Barbarossa in October 1941. It was then recreated in October of 1942 at Moscow, and go on to fight at Kalinin, Kursk, the Carpathians and Budapest. It was finally disbanded in the summer of 1945. -- The website warheroes.ru describes how Kaida Anatoliy Grigorevich, a driver in the 768th rifle regiment (part of the 155th division) was awarded the title of a Hero of the Soviet Union with the Order of Lenin and the Gold Star medal for his actions that contributed to the repulsion of a Finnish night time attack. He apparently went on to live through the whole war and died May 26th, 1997 in Kherson, central Ukraine. The Finnish records on medals etc. are not online, but if any were awarded during the war, it should have been mentioned in the diary. -- As a final note, this story ended up having an interesting personal twist. My family owns a summer cottage some 30 minutes away from Ilomantsi proper and both of my parents were born and lived their childhood in a small'ish municipality some 1 hour away from Ilomantsi. Most of the surnames mentioned in the diary are names I still hear and see every time I visit the area; both in the tombstones of the cemetery that two of my grandparents are buried in, and in the speech of the locals. I have played as a child with the descendants of some of the people mentioned in these updates. While my grandparents did not participate in combat (all too young), they were all affected by it. Their homes ended up on the Soviet side of the border in the peace treaty and the emergency mid-winter evacuation at the start of the war very clearly had a strong effect on their personalities and later lives. I cannot even begin to how it must have felt for the men who were called to arms and had to burn down their own homes to prevent the advancing enemy from using them for shelter.  (The above picture is not from our theatre of operations, but from significantly further south) At the same time, I also cannot fathom the frozen hell the forest must have been for the ill-equipped and starving Soviet troops, far from their homes fighting in a war they probably did not even properly understand the need for. At least they weren't in the mottis to both south and north of this sector. Loezi fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Oct 10, 2017 |
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Oct 10, 2017 18:18
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Soup Inspector posted:Hey, I'm about 95% sure this is a dumb question, but a buddy was talking about On Killing by Dave Grossman a couple of days ago. That vaguely reminded me of there being something a bit screwy about that book you guys pointed out, but I can't remember anything beyond "It had to do with his methodology, maybe, and also there was a good effortpost explaining why it's not so good". Is my memory right or am I just fabricating stuff wholesale? Grossman relied on literally made-up data, is the problem. It wasnt an issue of how the data was collected, the issue is that there was not collection at all, the stats on soldiers firing in combat were pure fiction. Its a worthless book all in all, in addition to the fact that Grossman is a worthless blowhard who passes himself as a former US Army Ranger because he went to Ranger school, and tells cops that they will have the best sex of their lives after they shoot someone.
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Oct 10, 2017 18:19
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Soup Inspector posted:Hey, I'm about 95% sure this is a dumb question, but a buddy was talking about On Killing by Dave Grossman a couple of days ago. That vaguely reminded me of there being something a bit screwy about that book you guys pointed out, but I can't remember anything beyond "It had to do with his methodology, maybe, and also there was a good effortpost explaining why it's not so good". Is my memory right or am I just fabricating stuff wholesale? He bases the central tenets of his agenda-driven pseudoscience on research that was never actually performed. Specifically, S. L. A. Marshall's half-assed reports of how many soldiers in combat fire their weapons.
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Oct 10, 2017 18:22
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paragon1 posted:You did pick up on the idea that the alt-history fiction novel 1632 takes place in 1632, a time before anyone in the world knew what a bacteria is, yes? I don't have anything against the fictional characters being nice, I take affront at the author even thinking about this poo poo. How would you think about a German author writing about Germans time-traveling to the early US, gunning down the enemies of the US at the time, and then "gifting" all the advanced knowledge of the 21st century to them until this new US starts resembling modern day Germany more then the USA. It's like cultural erasure.
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Oct 10, 2017 19:04
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OctaMurk posted:Grossman relied on literally made-up data, is the problem. It wasnt an issue of how the data was collected, the issue is that there was not collection at all, the stats on soldiers firing in combat were pure fiction. Its a worthless book all in all, in addition to the fact that Grossman is a worthless blowhard who passes himself as a former US Army Ranger because he went to Ranger school, and tells cops that they will have the best sex of their lives after they shoot someone. Phanatic posted:He bases the central tenets of his agenda-driven pseudoscience on research that was never actually performed. Specifically, S. L. A. Marshall's half-assed reports of how many soldiers in combat fire their weapons. Thanks for setting me straight! Unfortunately I'm not sure why he was reading the book, but as he's an author I assume he was attempting to do some research and unwittingly stumbled upon it. Is there anything I could recommend to him that isn't complete garbage? Sorry if this is off-topic! Just point me in the right direction and I'll ask there.
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Oct 10, 2017 19:13
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Libluini posted:I don't have anything against the fictional characters being nice, I take affront at the author even thinking about this poo poo. How would you think about a German author writing about Germans time-traveling to the early US, gunning down the enemies of the US at the time, and then "gifting" all the advanced knowledge of the 21st century to them until this new US starts resembling modern day Germany more then the USA. It's like cultural erasure.
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Oct 10, 2017 19:13
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paragon1 posted:Not really. Well, you posting about this won't make me magically love a book series I hate, so I suggest you drop it.
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Oct 10, 2017 19:16
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Libluini posted:I don't have anything against the fictional characters being nice, I take affront at the author even thinking about this poo poo. How would you think about a German author writing about Germans time-traveling to the early US, gunning down the enemies of the US at the time, and then "gifting" all the advanced knowledge of the 21st century to them until this new US starts resembling modern day Germany more then the USA. It's like cultural erasure. That's colonialism?
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Oct 10, 2017 19:20
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Libluini posted:Well, you posting about this won't make me magically love a book series I hate, so I suggest you drop it. Oh I didn't think so I was just wondering how you came to believe something that obviously wasn't true. Ignorance, perhaps? But no you're just lying about something that offends your cultural pride on some vague level, like a proud American Patriot.  Agreed. Happy to drop the subject!
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Oct 10, 2017 19:23
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I imagine it would depend on who they were killing and who they were handing out goodies to. Like, giving giving Lee a bunch of Kalashnikovs would be pretty lovely, but giving John Brown a minigun would be pretty amazing.
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Oct 10, 2017 19:26
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Isn't there a mission in Darkest of Days where you have to go and get an assault rifle that the Confederates got a hold of?
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Oct 10, 2017 19:27
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ATGMs to WWII poles. loving up a Panzer I or a T-26 with a Javelin would be hilarious.
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Oct 10, 2017 19:28
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I kinda want to see a novel about what happens if you give the Iroquois or Cherokee machine guns.
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Oct 10, 2017 19:30
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Ensign Expendable posted:Isn't there a mission in Darkest of Days where you have to go and get an assault rifle that the Confederates got a hold of? I liked how WWI Russians were shouting "Za rodina! Za Stalina!"
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Oct 10, 2017 19:30
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Libluini posted:I don't have anything against the fictional characters being nice, I take affront at the author even thinking about this poo poo. How would you think about a German author writing about Germans time-traveling to the early US, gunning down the enemies of the US at the time, and then "gifting" all the advanced knowledge of the 21st century to them until this new US starts resembling modern day Germany more then the USA. It's like cultural erasure. I mean:  Edit: paragon1 posted:I kinda want to see a novel about what happens if you give the Iroquois or Cherokee machine guns. Seriously, who wouldn't want to read about the Apache getting Apache helicopters? Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Oct 10, 2017 |
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Oct 10, 2017 19:50
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Rockopolis posted:I imagine it would depend on who they were killing and who they were handing out goodies to. Only one? John Brown could use a pair akimbo. Haven't you seen how big he is in the paintings?
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Oct 10, 2017 20:05
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Needs a free hand to carry his sword.
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Oct 10, 2017 20:12
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Oct 10, 2017 20:28
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Okay that one made me a big anti meme grouch smile, good job.
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Oct 10, 2017 20:36
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JcDent posted:The peeps there said that WWII is a defining thing in Russian/Sov history to such a mythological degree that the words "nazi" or "fascist" just become a synonym for "evil," without any fascist or nationalist traits. I'm not sure this isn't true here. Look how many people will unironically use terms that make no sense like "left-wing nazis". Nazi and fascist, as generalised terms, just means evil monster person who hates good things because they're eeeevil.
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Oct 10, 2017 20:42
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Fascist I can sort of forgive if qualified because I think a lot of people use that because they don't know what totalitarian means.
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Oct 10, 2017 22:01
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Soup Inspector posted:Thanks for setting me straight! Unfortunately I'm not sure why he was reading the book, but as he's an author I assume he was attempting to do some research and unwittingly stumbled upon it. Is there anything I could recommend to him that isn't complete garbage? Sorry if this is off-topic! Just point me in the right direction and I'll ask there. Here's a solid criticism of SLA Marshall's work that Grossman's book is built on: http://www.canadianmilitaryhistory.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/4-Engen-Marshall-under-fire.pdf The author went on to pen academical books about Canadian soldiers in WWII that directly address the issue, but I've not read them. If your friend's looking for sources about violence in general, he could try Rory Miller's Meditations on Violence. It's 100% anecdata but Miller is upfront about it and might even have worked all the jobs he claims he has. I've heard alright things about Geoffrey Canada's Fist Stick Knife Gun (not about Big Boss's CQC) but that's another book I've not yet read. Siivola fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Oct 10, 2017 |
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Oct 10, 2017 22:10
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OwlFancier posted:Fascist I can sort of forgive if qualified because I think a lot of people use that because they don't know what totalitarian means.
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Oct 10, 2017 22:15
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paragon1 posted:I kinda want to see a novel about what happens if you give the Iroquois or Cherokee machine guns. This is basically the plot of one of the Indian in the Cupboard books. IIRC they organize an ambush of some cowboys or whatever, don't understand firing arcs and just how loving far bullets will go, and hose each other down just as much as the dudes they ambush. Might be loving up the details, the last time I read those books I was loving 8.
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Oct 10, 2017 22:23
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Those books were awesome, and yeah sadly that what is what happens. I remember the main character mixing up his Indian nations and getting chewed out a with a WTF is this when he gets a tepee for the said Indian character.
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Oct 10, 2017 22:25
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Those books were so good.
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Oct 10, 2017 22:34
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Siivola posted:Grossman's On Killing was super popular some years ago. It's just the sort of book people who don't know violence would reach for if they wanted to find some context for their novel or martial art. It's interesting to read the perspective of Canadian soldiers because it's at odds with the reports of US officers who wanted their men to shoot more and keep shooting, even on the move. The problem was a training emphasizing drill and marksmanship left US soldiers only wanting to shoot a target they could see rather than just firing to keep the enemy's head down. I'm actually kinda surprised there's not much media on the US armored rifles, by the way.
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Oct 10, 2017 22:46
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SeanBeansShako posted:Those books were awesome, and yeah sadly that what is what happens. IIRC there's also one where toy soldiers fight skinheads
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Oct 10, 2017 22:56
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Siivola posted:Grossman's On Killing was super popular some years ago. It's just the sort of book people who don't know violence would reach for if they wanted to find some context for their novel or martial art. I've just sent him your recommendations, hopefully it'll be just what he's looking for. Unfortunately I won't know what he actually wants to research until tomorrow thanks to time zones, but when I initially pointed out to him that Grossman's work might be bad he was gracious about it and eager to hear corrections. I'm going to look through that critique myself, since I figure it can't hurt. I really appreciate it!
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Oct 10, 2017 23:06
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Libluini posted:I don't have anything against the fictional characters being nice, I take affront at the author even thinking about this poo poo. How would you think about a German author writing about Germans time-traveling to the early US, gunning down the enemies of the US at the time, and then "gifting" all the advanced knowledge of the 21st century to them until this new US starts resembling modern day Germany more then the USA. It's like cultural erasure. That sounds loving awesome. Can we make it a goon project? Might actually get some of the patriot set to rage read it and get a crash course in what American culture really hasn't learned lessons from. I think that sort of thing would be well worth doing, it's why I've retold Cyrano's take on denazification enough that I've almost memorized it.
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Oct 10, 2017 23:13
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StashAugustine posted:IIRC there's also one where toy soldiers fight skinheads Yeah those skin heads got hosed over by the tiniest of guns.
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Oct 10, 2017 23:21
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xthetenth posted:That sounds loving awesome. Can we make it a goon project? Might actually get some of the patriot set to rage read it and get a crash course in what American culture really hasn't learned lessons from. I think that sort of thing would be well worth doing, it's why I've retold Cyrano's take on denazification enough that I've almost memorized it.
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Oct 10, 2017 23:27
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HEY GAIL posted:disciplined, smug, but a little douchey This combined with a silhouette of a British officer of the 18th or 19th century and you got yourself a t-shirt sale from me JC.
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Oct 10, 2017 23:30
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MikeCrotch posted:Later US planes like the Avenger had hydraulic folding mechanisms controlled by the pilot. Older planes like the Wildcat had to have their wings manually unlocked and folded by flight deck crewmembers. This is indeed a pro-click. My wife's grandfather was an RAF Hurricane ace. After 18 confirmed kills in the Battle of Britain, he got shipped off to Ceylon on the carrier HMS Indomitable in early 1942. Pretty quickly after takeoff, his engine overheated and he had to land back on the carrier without arrestor gear. He did so successfully, and reported in the most English way possible "Navy very pleased with my effort". What would that have looked like on a ship of that era? Trying to take it slow into the barricade net?
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Oct 11, 2017 00:09
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HEY GAIL posted:punctual and smug, but a little douchey Time to retire einheit, recht u. freiheit, Germany.
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Oct 11, 2017 00:29
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HEY GAIL posted:not really we would all end up punctual and smug, but a little douchey That sounds worthwhile to me. Oh god. I just realized, there'd be an industrial revolution driven by Germans. Okay yeah, count me out.
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Oct 11, 2017 00:32
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 Illustration of a cannon accident, from an Upper Rhenish treatise on warfare from ca. 1420-40. I think my favorite part is how the survivor's got his hands on his head, but isn't shouting or crying out. He looks more concerned with having to clean up the mess.
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Oct 11, 2017 03:41
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