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duck monster
Dec 15, 2004



Be careful of that assumption though. One thing I found through my second watching is hidden in a lot of those "shuffling names around" scenes is a lot of the subtle politics that flare up later. I had quite a few "Ah-hah!" moments rewatching it in terms of stuff that seemed insignificant first time around suddenly becoming a lot more the other way around.

Its a monotlithic show really. But I do feel all the whacky threads of narrative really do integrate well after a while.

Also yeah, regarding the land-combat in space thing. I think a big part of the whole "corridor" thing is to allow them to do battles that parallel the sort of considerations one might make on land battle formation warfare, like in a narrow valley or whatever.

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Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

by Lowtax


Reinhard with a bouquet larger than his torso... this is... this is too much.

That blush.

I'm dying.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!




Nephilm posted:

Reinhard with a bouquet larger than his torso... this is... this is too much.

Completely unrealistic, right? It's a simple question of weight ratios.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!

I buy Steam inventories, add me if interested!




Clever Betty

Nephilm posted:

Reinhard with a bouquet larger than his torso... this is... this is too much.

That blush.

I'm dying.

Master tactician!

Natural leader!

Awkward virgin.


This Fall on UPN.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Captain Invictus posted:

Master tactician!

Natural leader!

Awkward virgin.


This Fall on UPN.

The best part was how after the deed was done she looked physically distraught. He's that bad.

Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

by Lowtax


TK-31 posted:

The best part was how after the deed was done she looked physically distraught. He's that bad.

I think that had more to do with having to do the walk of shame in front of the Kaiser's guards and attendants, then her own family's.

Chas McGill
Oct 29, 2010


Big spoilers -

So, episode 82.

There was so much foreshadowing in the preceding couple of episodes that I knew it was going to happen (and the god drat title of the episode!) but it was still a shock and I must admit I loosed a single teardrop in honour of the Magician. Cazellnu's choked up voice when he says that Yang's death violates the natural order of things really got me.

His death absolutely fits with the recurring theme of historical untidiness and realism in the show, though. Yang made a dunce of Reinhard in their every meeting, yet he suffers a lonely death to a character that isn't even named. He doesn't even get a chance to impart final words to Julian. I also liked how everyone was shown to mourn differently: Julian goes berserk, Schenkopp is pragmatic, Poplan drinks, Reinhard sulks. Frederica's voice acting when Julian tells her the bad news was some of the best I've heard in anime.

It'll be strange to watch the show without Yang. Reinhard simply doesn't compare and I don't really see how to two were even considered rivals. At least he'll have a chance at winning a battle now that Yang's gone, though I worry that Julian will continue to excel in everything that his colourless self touches...

Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

by Lowtax


I wonder what the japanese fascination is with when a nameless mook (or otherwise feeble character) wounds/kills/seemingly kills a notable character they immediately go into an anxiety attack that usually involves dropping their weapons and laughing maniacally.

DamnGlitch
Sep 2, 2004



other examples?

Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

by Lowtax


DamnGlitch posted:

other examples?

Within the same series you have the guy who fatally wounds Schenkopp, and on a related note the firing squad that kills whatshisname leader of the Alliance after Yang escapes but as for other examples I can't point them out off the top of my head since I haven't watched media in which the relevant situations come up with in ages aside from LoGH, but I do recall encountering it a fair bit in anime/manga I've gone through.

Maybe it tries to convey a sense of the character in question not being truly bested, or otherwise granting them some sort of moral upper ground by portraying the party who did the deed as pathetic as possible. Or it being an ignoble situation, I don't know.

What I do know is that I've NEVER seen a situation come up in which a larger-than-life character/plot element is brought down and a nod is made towards the previously unknown person who did the deed being just a regular dude, with nothing particularly special to them besides trying hard or getting lucky. No, if they show them at all they have to show them as frightful little human beings humbled to the point of submission or insanity by what they just did.

Rakugoon
Jul 30, 2010

by Y Kant Ozma Post


Well in real life Napoleon was once facing down an entire army as a firing squad and the guy closest to him just plain fainted, the idea of being forever known as the guy that killed a historic figure isn't pleasant if your last name isn't Oswald.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffeOvwBYkf4

This actually happened.

Rakugoon fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Mar 1, 2012

Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

by Lowtax


Rakugoon posted:

Well in real life Napoleon was once facing down an entire army as a firing squad and the guy closest to him just plain fainted, the idea of being forever known as the guy that killed a historic figure isn't pleasant if your last name isn't Oswald.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffeOvwBYkf4

This actually happened.

And that's actually kinda replicated in LoGH, but doesn't apply to the specific cases I mentioned nor to the broader trope. Facing down who you had previously sworn loyalty to in a stand-off is very different from finding a target you were already forming part of a concerted effort to eliminate, nevermind cases where the significant individual isn't even famous or shouldn't be immediately recognizable.

Rakugoon
Jul 30, 2010

by Y Kant Ozma Post


Well with the terraists it's obvious that they're just broken people anyway. And with Schenkopp the freakout had nothing to do with what the killer himself had just done so much as the poo poo he saw out of his victim.

Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

by Lowtax


Why are you trying to justify it? My point is not whether it's justifiable or not for a given circumstance, but that the culture seems to be enamored with it.

Minrad
Sep 26, 2007



At some point after visiting Earth, Boris Konev drops an on how the Earth Cult uses its followers. Does anyone know what I'm talking about and have a screenshot of that quote? I've been trying to find it for like a day on Google and would search through the series myself but I never backed it up when I watched it.

Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

by Lowtax


Minrad posted:

At some point after visiting Earth, Boris Konev drops an on how the Earth Cult uses its followers. Does anyone know what I'm talking about and have a screenshot of that quote? I've been trying to find it for like a day on Google and would search through the series myself but I never backed it up when I watched it.

In a religion there's nothing cheaper than the lives of its faithful?

Chas McGill
Oct 29, 2010


Well, I've finally finished it. What a journey. Should I just quit watching anime while I'm ahead?

Chinook
Apr 11, 2006

...into the far North we shall take you.



Chas McGill posted:

Well, I've finally finished it. What a journey. Should I just quit watching anime while I'm ahead?

Honestly, it wouldn't be a bad note to go out on.

Minrad
Sep 26, 2007



Nephilm posted:

In a religion there's nothing cheaper than the lives of its faithful?

Yess that was the quote

It had been on the tip of my tongue forever, thanks.

Chas McGill
Oct 29, 2010


Chinook posted:

Honestly, it wouldn't be a bad note to go out on.

I'm only half joking. I think if I watched something set in a high school now I'd throw up even more than I used to. Can't really see how anything can compare to the elegiac seriousness and scale of LotGH.

That said:

Reinhardo-sama thoroughly disappointed me throughout the series. His tactics?: overwhelm the enemy with continuous waves until they break down. His personnel decisions?: either moronic or deliberate in fomenting conflict and rebellion (appointing Reuental as governor of Neue Land, sending Fahrenheit and the Boar to execute a holding action near Iserlohn, knowing full well that they're his two most easily provoked admirals).

His reforms and honour are plus points, though the latter smacks of macho sentimentality. Consider the final battle. Hadn't Julian already proven his willingness to shed blood for his ideals? The continuation of the battle is completely unneccessary. It demonstrates his bloodlust and little else.

I ended up seeing him as a mass murdering Dick Dastardly rather than a glorious golden emperor.

IShallRiseAgain
Sep 12, 2008

Well ain't that precious?



Chas McGill posted:

Hadn't Julian already proven his willingness to shed blood for his ideals? The continuation of the battle is completely unneccessary. It demonstrates his bloodlust and little else.
I think that was more the author trying to show off how awesome and special Julian is more than anything else. It was pretty out of character for Reinhard. Julian had become a little bit of a Mary Sue by the end of the series.

DamnGlitch
Sep 2, 2004



I would have much preferred to see Julian: space jock ace than Julian: Inexplicable Wunderkinder

Chas McGill
Oct 29, 2010


There's a contract clause stating that every anime requires some kind of wunderkind.

Julian's teachers were among the greats, though, to be fair:
Yang - the tactical mastermind.
Schenkopp - death on two legs/Harrison Ford impersonator.
Poplan - The "Red" Baron.
Kircheis - Inspirational handshake.

KlavoHunter
Aug 3, 2006
"Intelligence indicates that our enemy is using giant cathedral ships. Research divison reports that we can adapt this technology for our use. Begin researching giant cathedral ships immediately."

A beloved director of science fiction shows passed away at age 73 (via ANN)

quote:

Studio Nue co-founder Haruka Takachiho reported on Wednesday that Noboru Ishiguro, the veteran director of such works as Space Battleship Yamato, the first color Astro Boy anime series (1980), The Super Dimension Fortress Macross, and Legend of the Galactic Heroes, has passed away. He was 73.

Ishiguro directed some of the most highly regarded anime classics of the last five decades, including those listed above as well as Megazone 23, The Super Dimension Century Orguss, The Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Do You Remember Love? film, and Yōkai Ningen Bem. Ishiguro also conceived of Megazone 23's story and founded Artland in 1978, the studio that co-produced Macross, Orguss and Galactic Heroes, and animated more recent titles such as Mushi-Shi, Demon King Daimao, and Katekyo Hitman Reborn!

Most recently, Ishiguro directed the 2008-2009 television anime series Tytania, which was based on a series of novels by Galactic Heroes author Yoshiki Tanaka, and Pattenrai!! - Minami no Shima no Mizu Monogatari, a 2009 film based on the life of Yoichi Hatta, the Japanese engineer that helped modernize Taiwan when it was a colony of Japan.

Ishiguro was scheduled to attend North Carolina's Animazement convention on May 25-27. He attended past U.S. conventions such as several Anime Expo events, Anime Weekend Atlanta in 2007, and Otakon in 2009.


Let us remember this fine man, his work, and the things it taught us.

Chas McGill
Oct 29, 2010


Pouring a glass for him now. What a career.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



I did not know his name until now but drat, an artist has left the building.

Kircheis
Aug 14, 2007
In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same.

Back in 2002, Noboru Ishiguro was at the Legend of the Galactic Heroes panel at Anime Expo in LA. During the panel, they were giving out prizes to people who asked questions, and some of the prizes were cels from the series. I lucked out and got a cel of Julian, which he and the producer, Yukio Kikukawa, were nice enough to sign for me. I still have it framed on my mantle. Thanks for all of the fantastic series you directed, Isiguro-san.

Kuvo
Oct 27, 2008

Blame it on the misfortune of your bark!


Fun Shoe

Just dropping by this thread to say thank you to Zorak. I don't know in which thread I saw his praising recommendation of LOGH but I've been watching it over the last few months and just finished it tonight.

It was loving outstanding.

In my opinion, it shares a place with Cowboy Bebop and GITS:SAC in that rare category of anime that does everything right. Plot, characters, animation, pacing, themes, dialog, soundtrack, you name it.

To elaborate, the plot is intricate, but the shows structures along with the narrators recaps make it easy to follow. The characters are all very well written, even the minor ones. The cast is huge, but each character is so unique that it's not hard to keep track of them all, which is a feat of screen writing. In particular I liked Reuenthal and Oberstein, who at different points take morally ambiguous actions in order to follow their own philosophies. The series never once passed judgment on them, instead leaving the conclusion to the viewer. The themes of sovereignty, power, loyalty, nationalism, honor, love and wisdom are ingrained throughout the entire story, but are never overdone. The pacing, while slow in the first few episodes when developing characters, picks up and holds you the entire time. The animation amazed me; it's fluid, detailed, and never once degrades in quality over the 110 episode run. The classical soundtrack allowed for the easy setting of moods. It was chilling the first time you heard Dvorak's 9th 4th movement to the scenery of ships exploding.

In all the show was fantastic and I'm a bit sad that I'm done with it. Japan, please make more anime like this instead of Moe High School Idol Harem Anime #30495

Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

by Lowtax


Go watch Monster or something.

Takes No Damage
Nov 20, 2004

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.




Grimey Drawer

I started Monster years ago and still haven't finished it. It's only similarity to LoGH that I remember is that people stand around talking all the time, but one show holds my attention doing that and one doesn't. My go-to anime to recommend to people who 'hate anime' is usually Death Note. I wish there was something closer to Legends that I could point new people to without dropping 110 episodes on them at once.

Chas McGill
Oct 29, 2010


Kircheis posted:

Back in 2002, Noboru Ishiguro was at the Legend of the Galactic Heroes panel at Anime Expo in LA. During the panel, they were giving out prizes to people who asked questions, and some of the prizes were cels from the series. I lucked out and got a cel of Julian, which he and the producer, Yukio Kikukawa, were nice enough to sign for me. I still have it framed on my mantle. Thanks for all of the fantastic series you directed, Isiguro-san.



That's lovely.

Kuvo posted:

In all the show was fantastic and I'm a bit sad that I'm done with it. Japan, please make more anime like this instead of Moe High School Idol Harem Anime #30495
Couldn't agree more. I'm guessing that the adult demographic just isn't as profitable as the sexually repressed teen demographic, though.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!

I buy Steam inventories, add me if interested!




Clever Betty

The problem with your statement, and the industry, is that you're assuming they are targeting teens.

Chas McGill
Oct 29, 2010


Could you elaborate? I thought the dearth of adult anime was down to companies targeting kids because the adults didn't have as much interest any more.

Not that there isn't anything worth watching for adults (we're here, after all), though. There just seems to be far less of it.

Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

by Lowtax


poo poo like Lucky Star and K-ON doesn't target kids bro, it targets 30+yo manchildren. The industry realized that they don't need to appeal to a wide audience when they can appeal to a small hardcore audience that has way more purchasing power.

DamnGlitch
Sep 2, 2004



Chas McGill posted:

Could you elaborate? I thought the dearth of adult anime was down to companies targeting kids because the adults didn't have as much interest any more.

Not that there isn't anything worth watching for adults (we're here, after all), though. There just seems to be far less of it.

Manbabbies. Specifically, single men with disposable income they dedicate to purchasing merchandise.

It DOES hit some teens; a naked woman infront of some (male) teen isn't going to get a blind eye turned to it, regardless of what the main audience is.

But lolicon shows, and ridiculous high school shows are not for the age group featured in the show.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



This is not a problem exclusive to anime, either. People blame the lowest common denominator for decrease in the quality of entertainment a lot but it is usually just as much the fault of 'the fans' if not more.

DamnGlitch
Sep 2, 2004



Yeah. There's tons of absolute garbage in any entertainment media. Good shows still exists. I think it's strange to assume there should be amazing works coming out all the time and then be disappointed when one season "totally sucks" than to expect something wonderful to pop up when we least expect it. The later seems much more likely given the way the entertainment industry is constructed.

Chas McGill
Oct 29, 2010


Nephilm posted:

poo poo like Lucky Star and K-ON doesn't target kids bro, it targets 30+yo manchildren. The industry realized that they don't need to appeal to a wide audience when they can appeal to a small hardcore audience that has way more purchasing power.

DamnGlitch posted:

Manbabbies. Specifically, single men with disposable income they dedicate to purchasing merchandise.

It DOES hit some teens; a naked woman infront of some (male) teen isn't going to get a blind eye turned to it, regardless of what the main audience is.

But lolicon shows, and ridiculous high school shows are not for the age group featured in the show.

Wow. So I'm guessing it's a kind of escapist fantasy complex or something? I know that there are a lot of Westerners into shows that look like they'd be exclusively for kids, but I thought that was down to the exotic allure of them being foreign. I didn't think they had a market for adults in Japan. Kind of like how people don't feel weird being seen reading Le Petit Prince* as an adult.

Can't really relate to it either way. I'm glad that shows like LotGH exist, though.

*Probably a bad comparison. Sorry, Antoine.

Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

by Lowtax


Chas McGill posted:

Wow. So I'm guessing it's a kind of escapist fantasy complex or something?

Doesn't that account for like 90% of all fiction? In the specific case of the anime industry you can point out how an audience grew up watching, for instance robot shows and... well, never stopped liking them, which is a completely legitimate position. And however you may look at them, some of these shows that look childish are specifically aimed at these same grown-up audiences (compare to adult cartoons like The Simpsons and Ren&Stimpy; something like MLP *is* aimed at children) and those are the ones that hit, because anime for little kids are their own category. The trait of manchildren would be mostly attributed to the fact that in many cases they're spending a significant percentage of their livelihood on overpriced merchandise, not to mention a blatant embrace of the most extreme excesses of said materialism and/or associated manias/fetishes.

Nephilm fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Mar 23, 2012

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Zorak
Nov 7, 2005


A lot more of it has to do with marketing strategies and the how DVD/BDs are limited to being extreme luxury items by pricing.

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